Yo Yo to Impenetrable Base

[ucandomagic]

Now that we’re doing well again there’s stuff on a lot of threads from an attending fan perspective about whether it is better for watching games to get promoted to the Prem and have a shit season and then get relegated or not to get promoted at all.

As a (very) long term fan I fucking hate the Prem, but I now accept that without last season (money) we wouldn’t have this season. So, having a fuck-up season in the Prem and rebuilding in the Champ is better either than not going up and just consolidating a long-term Champ team or else going up and spending the family silver trying to win games and stay up.

After relegation with Wilder/Hecky (2020/21) I’d had enough and just wanted to stay in the Championship. Last year, straight after relegation with Hecky/Wilder (2023/24), I felt the same, but now I want to get promoted, but not with the primary objective of trying to stay up.

Our last promotion with Wilder was built on defence and our subsequent 9th place in the Prem in 2019/20 was built on defence (39 conceded in 38 games). That was the 4th best goals conceded record after Liverpool and the 2 Manchesters.

That is what can give us successful sustainable Prem League status.

Our current strength is now, once again, built on defence - 3 conceded in 9 games - with 6 consecutive clean sheets. If we concentrate on this and get promoted, we should then focus on building a top Prem League defence.

Becoming and maintaining one of the the best defences in the Prem is a realistic objective, and if we get relegated we would still have a rock solid basis on which to build and go back up.

Rinse and repeat.

Without multi billionaire ownership we are not going to challenge for Top 4 in the Prem, but with an astute Wilder defence we could become a solid mid table Prem, occasionally challenging for Europe and Cups.

Magic can Happen.

UTB & Slava Ukraini!

 

[103SecondsOfMagic]

Yo Yo to Impenetrable Base
Junglist Massive in da Place

Agree btw

 

[Champagneblade]

They journey is certainly better than the destination.

Apart from the season we finished 9th and were it not for Pandemic would have finished higher.

 

[SGBlade]

The way I look at it is that promotion is an end in itself. It’s realistically our equivalent of winning a trophy and is my definition of ‘success’ (perhaps as well as reaching a cup semi or final). The best seasons I’ve had watching us are our promotion seasons (and triple assault). I try not to let the (almost) inevitable struggle that follows taint that feeling.

In the Prem, I’m trying (not always succeeding - generally lasts until the end of game 1!) to just enjoy the experience of seeing our players in the best league in the world. I know that sounds defeatist but it’s realistic. I would love us to spend our Prem money on something a bit more foundational next time though - either club infrastructure or hoovering up the best lower league young talent. Then it becomes a shot to nothing and a beautiful surprise if we actually do do well, as we did under Bassett and Wilder.

That said, on a week by week basis, it is shit getting battered every week and having to put up with VAR and all the other BS. I enjoy being in the champ vastly more than the Prem.

 

[bornablade]

It's impossible to accept the thought of us not getting promoted to the Premier league. To accept it means we have to resign ourselves to losing some matches. I want us to win EVERY match. To win all our matches means inevitably we have to take our place in the top flight.

Last season as things began to get worse and worse I advocated the 'at least keep a clean sheet' approach to every game. By not conceding in the Premier league you can get to a minimum of 38 points. Obviously we were unable to achieve this.

Nigel Clough used to be criticised for having the thought that at the beginning of each game you had a point. Maybe in league One that is negative but in the Premier league it has to be considered.

We should also start to try and improve our goal scoring from set pieces. Arsenal, Man City and Liverpool (I think) have the best record this season of scoring from set pieces. These 3 teams have unbelievable talent to score from open play and yet still work hard all week on the training ground to get that extra goal. Scoring goals in the Premier league from open play is very difficult (don't we know it) - we need to play for corners and free kicks around the opposition box.

If we, as the OP alludes to are developing a defence for the Premier league next season then we should also be using this season to put together an array of set pieces that will not only benefit us this season but will stand us in bettter stead than we had last season. Let's at least be more effective in using Moore and Souttar and be a lttle more creative.

Finally I want the gap between us and our neighbours to be as wide as possible. For them to be relegated and us promoted this season will make it perfect.

 

[Geordie Blade]

Arsenal, Man City and Liverpool (I think) have the best record this season of scoring from set pieces. These 3 teams have unbelievable talent to score from open play and yet still work hard all week on the training ground to get that extra goal.

They also have the most corners in the first place (because their open play is so strong). I don’t know whether they’re better at corners than other teams - they just get more opportunities.

That said, our defending of set pieces was soaking last year. With a side as limited as ours, the least we should have done was to be very very solid at defending corners, and it sometimes looked like we didn’t even practice.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

I've had the same dilemma. But we are basing it on one of the most painful periods of our history.
If we had a normal relegation we might not be having the same doubts.
A dog fight battle at the bottom can be exciting, doesn't have to be 5-0 every week.
Go for it and give it a fighting chance if we go up. Doing that, over the years, we can steadily build in strength and depth.

 

[Snowflake]

Now that we’re doing well again there’s stuff on a lot of threads from an attending fan perspective about whether it is better for watching games to get promoted to the Prem and have a shit season and then get relegated or not to get promoted at all.

As a (very) long term fan I fucking hate the Prem, but I now accept that without last season (money) we wouldn’t have this season. So, having a fuck-up season in the Prem and rebuilding in the Champ is better either than not going up and just consolidating a long-term Champ team or else going up and spending the family silver trying to win games and stay up.

After relegation with Wilder/Hecky (2020/21) I’d had enough and just wanted to stay in the Championship. Last year, straight after relegation with Hecky/Wilder (2023/24), I felt the same, but now I want to get promoted, but not with the primary objective of trying to stay up.

Our last promotion with Wilder was built on defence and our subsequent 9th place in the Prem in 2019/20 was built on defence (39 conceded in 38 games). That was the 4th best goals conceded record after Liverpool and the 2 Manchesters.

That is what can give us successful sustainable Prem League status.

Our current strength is now, once again, built on defence - 3 conceded in 9 games - with 6 consecutive clean sheets. If we concentrate on this and get promoted, we should then focus on building a top Prem League defence.

Becoming and maintaining one of the the best defences in the Prem is a realistic objective, and if we get relegated we would still have a rock solid basis on which to build and go back up.

Rinse and repeat.

Without multi billionaire ownership we are not going to challenge for Top 4 in the Prem, but with an astute Wilder defence we could become a solid mid table Prem, occasionally challenging for Europe and Cups.

Magic can Happen.

UTB & Slava Ukraini!

To me this is clear. Without PL money the club will struggle and being in existence and allowing me to come to games is crucial.
Further if we were not going for promotion each time we are in the Championship what is the point in playing ? There would be no excitement and no success.

 

[Working Class Hero]

I've only experienced three Premier League seasons (05/06, 19/20 and 23/24). There was another one where I didn't experience a single game, that would have panned out differently if I had, so I'm not counting that.

Two out of the three were fucking brilliant.

I've seen over twenty seasons at this level, of which maybe three were as enjoyable as those two Premier League seasons.

So in conclusion, I'd like us to play in the Premier League rather than be perennial Championship wallers.

 

[Lama]

It's a common rhetoric on this board: "I prefer the championship to the premier league"

Sometimes people claim it's because the premier league is too glossy and there's too much diving and gamesmanship. (Forgetting that the championship is full of diving and gamesmanship too.) The real reason though is that we're a decently sized, competitive fish in the championship pond, and in the premier league, we've made a habit of being fodder in our last two seasons, even a laughing stock at times. People don't want their feelings hurt.

But be honest, nothing has really come close to being on the verge of European qualification in late 2019, early 2020, has it? Promotions are great, but they didn't come close to the heights we reached that season.

Reaching our potential, and discovering our ceiling as a club has to be the aim.

 

[The Fox]

Although I realise it's a unpopular view but possibly the best way of easing the transition to the PL , and solving the PL to EFL parachute payments is to have PL1 and PL 2 ,each with 18 teams or so .
The financial benefit could be graduated between the two not creating the cliff edge either way . Just a way of smoothing progression up the pyramid
Of course those top clubs In europe would still be there ,however relegation from PL 1 wouldn't be so severe ,neither would the step from the efl to PL2 giving clubs a chance to build and progress.

Just a thought.

 

[s20Blade]

As a fan I had the most fun in the early 2000's where we would just miss out going up but winning most games in the championship in general. Fine with us being a yo-yo club in this modern day but at the end of it I'd like us to have something long-term like expanding the stadium.

 

[Digs blade]

Although I realise it's a unpopular view but possibly the best way of easing the transition to the PL , and solving the PL to EFL parachute payments is to have PL1 and PL 2 ,each with 18 teams or so .
The financial benefit could be graduated between the two not creating the cliff edge either way . Just a way of smoothing progression up the pyramid
Of course those top clubs In europe would still be there ,however relegation from PL 1 wouldn't be so severe ,neither would the step from the efl to PL2 giving clubs a chance to build and progress.

Just a thought.

Pigs would be all over that idea

 

[The Fox]

Pigs would be all over that idea

FTP .

If we want some kind of structure and meritocracy where well managed and well run clubs have a chance of progression without hitting the PL brick wall then it's a suggestion .
The PL will never willingly distrubute money down the pyramid , it's not in thier interests.
Give them a tiered structure of more clubs gives them something to contemplate , also allows a smaller PL1 which the top clubs would like.
Probably never happen but just a thought .

 

[Boxer Blade]

If you don't want to go and watch united play to try and win every match, finish as high as possible and try for promotion whats the point in bothering in the first place.
Have to be sensible and accept where we are but surely you want promotion and then take it from there.

 

[JayGreen17]

If you don't want to go and watch united play to try and win every match, finish as high as possible and try for promotion whats the point in bothering in the first place.
Have to be sensible and accept where we are but surely you want promotion and then take it from there.

Absolutely this, what the hell is the point in supporting a team of you don’t want them to win and play at the highest level.. go and watch Wednesday if you want 25 years and counting not dining at the top table.

 

[ThirdGenBlade]

Absolutely this, what the hell is the point in supporting a team of you don’t want them to win and play at the highest level.. go and watch Wednesday if you want 25 years and counting not dining at the top table.

Boxer Blade and JayGreen17 you need to read a post before you criticise it.

Ucdm is saying that promotion with probable relegation is still valuable as long as you use it to build, and building a prem quality defence is the cost-effective way that you use that funding.

In order to get to sustain playing at the highest level, as you put it, without limitless funding you need a long-term strategy rather than an uncontrolled spend to try and stay up at the first or second attempt. Too many teams have ended in League 2 or worse by trying to buy their seat at the top table.

UTB & FTP!

 

[Charlieblade]

Now that we’re doing well again there’s stuff on a lot of threads from an attending fan perspective about whether it is better for watching games to get promoted to the Prem and have a shit season and then get relegated or not to get promoted at all.

As a (very) long term fan I fucking hate the Prem, but I now accept that without last season (money) we wouldn’t have this season. So, having a fuck-up season in the Prem and rebuilding in the Champ is better either than not going up and just consolidating a long-term Champ team or else going up and spending the family silver trying to win games and stay up.

After relegation with Wilder/Hecky (2020/21) I’d had enough and just wanted to stay in the Championship. Last year, straight after relegation with Hecky/Wilder (2023/24), I felt the same, but now I want to get promoted, but not with the primary objective of trying to stay up.

Our last promotion with Wilder was built on defence and our subsequent 9th place in the Prem in 2019/20 was built on defence (39 conceded in 38 games). That was the 4th best goals conceded record after Liverpool and the 2 Manchesters.

That is what can give us successful sustainable Prem League status.

Our current strength is now, once again, built on defence - 3 conceded in 9 games - with 6 consecutive clean sheets. If we concentrate on this and get promoted, we should then focus on building a top Prem League defence.

Becoming and maintaining one of the the best defences in the Prem is a realistic objective, and if we get relegated we would still have a rock solid basis on which to build and go back up.

Rinse and repeat.

Without multi billionaire ownership we are not going to challenge for Top 4 in the Prem, but with an astute Wilder defence we could become a solid mid table Prem, occasionally challenging for Europe and Cups.

Magic can Happen.

UTB & Slava Ukraini!

I agree with most of what you say, especially the second paragraph. I said at the start of this season that we would end up mid table, and i still believe that. Having been a blade for such a long time, I have a built in streak of pessimism. When things are going as well as they are now, we usually find a way to bugger it up.

We do have a strong defence, and some quality players in the spine of the team. The list of guaranteed starters now contains a goalkeeper of great promise, Cooper is brilliant. Anel is playing well now and adding Arblaster and Hamer shows that we have some real quality.

Under Hecky, we also relied on a few quality loan players like McAtee and Doyle. Now we have Souttar and Raki Sayki showing so much promise. Gilchrist will no doubt make a top PL player. We should use promotion to buy one of these type of players. We can also use money for infrastructure improvements.

No one is too concerned with a better ground and a top academy right now, because things are going so well. Has Wilder rediscovered his mojo, or did we just get lucky? Worth remembering that the current squad rebuild is only half done, and our results so far could easily be put down to fixtures that benefit us! We still don’t have a scoring striker. Has Brooks and Peck done enough to prove themselves in the PL, or have they reached their ceiling?

I still think we could finish mid table, or even top six with nothing to show for it. Play offs are a United lottery as we have already shown. Can Wilder keep the level up agains top sides especially away from home? Can he nurse or manage injuries and suspensions to key players, or do we go down the sniper route again?

My answer to the problem is to get automatic promotion this season, buy one top player who would normally come as a loan, and blow the rest on infrastructure, before the Kop falls down and the
academy supply line dries up.

I am a dreamer yes, but I still think we can rebuild this squad by spending one more season in the Championship.
I do accept that we do need PL funds to finish the rebuild. I hope I’m wrong, but last time things went this well for us, we failed to get out of the pub league with Danny Wilson. (Heresy I know).

 

[derbysufc]

Repeat
Without going up every one or two years will lead to a massive slide as Birmingham, Huddersfield, Portsmouth etc found out even Bolton.
It reaults in massive income loss and player sales
As much as I detest the premier league you simply have to be in it and establish yourself as a club .
Fulham, Brighton, West ham and now Aston villa who were a game away from relegation have played European football .
Fulham and Brentford and Bournemouth e small clubs home their own with small crowds .
I do belive going up under wilder we will hold our own and if only we can establish ourselves we can keep hold of the young uns and have no financial issues .
We need to grasp promotion this season, it won't be anything like last time as we fukt up selling the 2 best players a couple weeks before season started and heckinbottom was clueless .
I give no jizz if we yo-yo as we keep having the money coming in till we find our billionaire owner but then again , I don't want to buy trophies , I'd prefer to be a Leicester city and win the league on merit not the dollar .

 

[Pollingtonblade]

We've had 6 seasons in the Premier League and been relegated in 4 of them, in only one of them relegation wasn't on the cards.

This will only change once we have a structure where we can remain there like several other clubs have, people on here bemoan Palace but that should be our aspiration, shouldn't it?

 

[derbysufc]

When we did the derby double , the 3-1 win at the rust bucket we actually stopped wednesday winning the league that season .
Yes they played in Europe but they had a mouth piece chairman Dave Richards who promised Wednesday they would rule the earth. The bloke was a complete GIMP no money , a bsnkcrupt business yet went on to be part of Trevor bookings england corrupt lot.
DAVE RICHARDS famous words , we will never play sheffueld united again unless it's a cup game.
They've not played premiership football since in nearly 30 years and the blades academy blinds owt that RIchards promised the pigs .
I'd call it KARMA

 

[CaptainMorgans]

As a fan I had the most fun in the early 2000's where we would just miss out going up but winning most games in the championship in general. Fine with us being a yo-yo club in this modern day but at the end of it I'd like us to have something long-term like expanding the stadium.

This is the same for me.
I want there to be a lasting legacy that provides solid foundations for us to eventually be a PL mainstay.

So rather than spunking the money on players that aren't likely to keep us in the PL anyway, I'd like to see us put the money into the club's infrastructure.
The training ground, the academy, the stadium, the recruitment & medical / fitness departments.

Something big's coming at the top of English football. There's a reason so many Americans think the clubs are undervalued.
I want us to be in a position to go on whatever that journey is when it arrives.

 

[Chimpan-A]

I’ve moaned with the best of them about how rubbish the Premier League is BUT this is the inescapable truth: I want the Blades to win every game, and I want them to get promoted. I can’t think tactically when it comes to that, I can’t take a long view and say it would be better if we consolidate this season and go for it next season. It’s the same emotional thinking that means I am disappointed when we bow out of cup competitions with a whimper, even though the accepted logic is we can concentrate on the l ague (although hopefully that’s been put to bed after 22/23 season with the cup semi and autos).
And not only that, there are no guarantees with this club that consolidation would inevitably be followed by an improvement. All manner of things could change, a good chance that the players who could get us up would disappear at the end of this season if we don’t go up, for example.
So I say go for it, and worry about the Premier League when we get there.

 

[Boxer Blade]

Boxer Blade and JayGreen17 you need to read a post before you criticise it.

Ucdm is saying that promotion with probable relegation is still valuable as long as you use it to build, and building a prem quality defence is the cost-effective way that you use that funding.

In order to get to sustain playing at the highest level, as you put it, without limitless funding you need a long-term strategy rather than an uncontrolled spend to try and stay up at the first or second attempt. Too many teams have ended in League 2 or worse by trying to buy their seat at the top table.

UTB & FTP!

I wasn't having a go at anyone in particular, I get the feeling 'some' fans don't want it, you need to read my post before finding fault.

 

[steve26272]

If we go up, we will be better equipped to stay up

Buy Souttar, another loan for JSR & Gilchrist and we can be competitive with investment up top

Don’t go up, and we face bids for just about everyone of our owned starting 11 bar Moore

If you don’t want to win go to school sports day where everyone gets a medal - load of bollox

 

[Tezza1889]

We needed to go up or we know what would have happened financially, we needed to sell those 2 players, we don't have a sugar daddy for the premier league..

It hurt like hell seeing us laughed at from all quarters last season, so the great start we have this season is welcome and we deserve it, you can bet wilder put them straight before a ball was kicked how much shit the fans had swallowed last season...

From this position now today it was a good plan, we're sitting up at the top and looking strong.

If a season or two as whipping boys puts the club in a good financial state then we should prepare to be more accepting of the hammerings, as its part of a long term plan...

let's just make sure the pain has a gain for the club, and not agents and advisors "etc"

 

[Snowflake]

Pigs would be all over that idea

Only if part of it !

 

[Badger Blade]

The more success we have, the more chance someone credible might want to invest.

We've got the land for the training ground now and the academy is producing players who are starting games for us and winning games for us.

We need some money but its all about what you do with it when it appears. Everton have spent money like water for years and they've got progressively worse. Wolves couldn't sustain all the money they were chucking about a few years ago and have started as badly as we did last season.

I'm a bit surprised at how well things have gone so far, whereas Luton have just plummeted and may have had their one season Barnsley moment and that's that.

All about being smart and playing a long enough game but at the same time making sure things are working in the here and now.

Its all well and good to "think Liverpool" but while you're getting relegated to League One, it's getting further and further away.

 

[YES Blade]

I’d love for us to be able to invest a good chunk of money into bringing the training ground up to Premier League standards along with a cat 1 academy.

If we want to be established in the Premier League and potentially qualify for Europe and win a trophy, we need to bridge the gap off the pitch first.

We’re never going to have the budget to just buy enough quality players to make it so we need to get the off the field right first in my opinion.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Now that we’re doing well again there’s stuff on a lot of threads from an attending fan perspective about whether it is better for watching games to get promoted to the Prem and have a shit season and then get relegated or not to get promoted at all.

As a (very) long term fan I fucking hate the Prem, but I now accept that without last season (money) we wouldn’t have this season. So, having a fuck-up season in the Prem and rebuilding in the Champ is better either than not going up and just consolidating a long-term Champ team or else going up and spending the family silver trying to win games and stay up.

After relegation with Wilder/Hecky (2020/21) I’d had enough and just wanted to stay in the Championship. Last year, straight after relegation with Hecky/Wilder (2023/24), I felt the same, but now I want to get promoted, but not with the primary objective of trying to stay up.

Our last promotion with Wilder was built on defence and our subsequent 9th place in the Prem in 2019/20 was built on defence (39 conceded in 38 games). That was the 4th best goals conceded record after Liverpool and the 2 Manchesters.

That is what can give us successful sustainable Prem League status.

Our current strength is now, once again, built on defence - 3 conceded in 9 games - with 6 consecutive clean sheets. If we concentrate on this and get promoted, we should then focus on building a top Prem League defence.

Becoming and maintaining one of the the best defences in the Prem is a realistic objective, and if we get relegated we would still have a rock solid basis on which to build and go back up.

Rinse and repeat.

Without multi billionaire ownership we are not going to challenge for Top 4 in the Prem, but with an astute Wilder defence we could become a solid mid table Prem, occasionally challenging for Europe and Cups.

Magic can Happen.

UTB & Slava Ukraini!

Yeah, but it really doesn’t have to be as bad as it was last season does it? The preparation for our big season back was…bordering on the suicidal. There’s no shame in coming bottom in todays Premier league, but the way in which we manage to do it is beyond embarrassing.