Will relegation really matter?

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lenners

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We're going nowhere as a football club, have no direction, few players of any real ability and even if we were to stay up would it really matter?
All it would achieve would be another season of struggle, more loanings, more scuffling with a set of nomarks.
The board don't care and does it really matter if we go down?
Is existing like this better than winning a few more games in League One, potentially with a few younger players having a go instead of players who have no affinity at all to United?
 



course it bloody would, if only for the fact we're the only yorkshire club not to go there recently.. and its done nothing for any of those that have. We're better off where we are. There are zero positive reasons for dropping down a division

In a way, it could be a way of 're-setting' the club- all players on high wages will go instantly, leaving us to build from what we have and literally starting again. But right now we're struggling to build from what we have, and we have a lot more than what we would have if the high earners all went. I think we'd struggle in League 1.
 
One of your daffest posts Len. It would matter a great deal.
Last time we went there it took us years to get back. You only have to look at Weeds and Wendy to see the amount of shit it puts you in. Even Forest are struggling this season and they had a shed load of cash pumped into them.

Relegation to L1 would be a disaster.
 
What players do we have on high wages?
course it bloody would, if only for the fact we're the only yorkshire club not to go there recently.. and its done nothing for any of those that have. We're better off where we are. There are zero positive reasons for dropping down a division

In a way, it could be a way of 're-setting' the club- all players on high wages will go instantly, leaving us to build from what we have and literally starting again. But right now we're struggling to build from what we have, and we have a lot more than what we would have if the high earners all went. I think we'd struggle in League 1.
 
A more interesting scenario would be how things would play if we were relegated AND made a profit at the same time....
 
In a way, it could be a way of 're-setting' the club- all players on high wages will go instantly, leaving us to build from what we have and literally starting again.ght now we're struggling to build from what we have, and we have a lot more than what we would have if the high earners all went. I think we'd struggle in League 1.

But the trouble is, they wouldn't. Cresswell has a big 3 year contract at 31 years old. He's a decent pro but it's doubtful anyone else would take on his contract. Evans is rumoured to be on £20K per week, Ryan France £7K. The list will go on. Which other clubs would take on these contracts? Unfortunately we'd be waiting for contracts to expire. Everything that's saleable has been sold.

UTB
 
A more interesting scenario would be how things would play if we were relegated AND made a profit at the same time....

There would be a text immediately announcing a freeze on next year's season ticket prices.

And a much heralded purchase of a minor league club in Kyrgyzstan. Probably one with an extraordinarily large car park.
 
Of course it will matter, what a horrific post Len, look how we all laugh at Wednesday in their plight and you want us to match it in terms of standard of football?!

Please mate, I respect everyones opinion of course, but that one is just bizarre!
 
What players do we have on high wages?

My assumption is that these are on very high Championship wages, the kind of money that seriously restricts further spending at the moment:

Steve Simonsen, Stephen Jordan, Nyron Nosworthy, Nick Montgomery, Chris Morgan, Darius Henderson, Leon Britton, Ched Evans, Mark Yeates, Jean Calve, Lee Williamson, Ryan France, Richard Cresswell, Kyle Bartley, Ritchie De Laet, Stephen Quinn.
 
My assumption is that these are on very high Championship wages, the kind of money that seriously restricts further spending at the moment:

Steve Simonsen, Stephen Jordan, Nyron Nosworthy, Nick Montgomery, Chris Morgan, Darius Henderson, Leon Britton, Ched Evans, Mark Yeates, Jean Calve, Lee Williamson, Ryan France, Richard Cresswell, Kyle Bartley, Ritchie De Laet, Stephen Quinn.

Careful Bergen, you'll have Shorehamview on saying you can't speculate on players wages because you don't see their wage slips every month. For all we know, they might be earning less than the Watford players, who knows.

In answer to Lenners question, I saw and heard enough passion at Leeds in the away end to suggest the relegation will really matter. Maybe it was a final bow for many but the pride was evident, mind you I saw a post on Mad that said BDTBL is nowt more than a meeting place now and totally agree with that so league position is irrelevant in that sense.
 
I can sort of see where Lenners is coming from, in that recently, some reasonably sized teams such as Leicester, Norwich and Leeds have gone down, and come back up, and 2 of them are currently performing better in the Championship than us. Leicester did quite well last season, but you only have to look at them now to see that it might only be a "flash in the pan" and that it may be many more years before they seriously challenge for promotion to the Premiership again. I can't recall a team that has recently gone down and come back up and been promoted again.

On the other hand, if we were to go down, that's not to guarantee that we would even get promoted originally. Some formerly established Premiership teams such as Charlton and Southampton are still struggling, and even Forest and Leeds took a while to come back. I know that they've had financial issues, but that's because of the inevitable decline in TV and ticket revenues that relegation to League 1 brings, and this is something that we would not be immune from.

All in all, I think relegation would bring more problems than benefits. :thumbdown:
 
We don't need to worry about relegation, only MASSIVE clubs get relegated
 



Talking about it in the pub last night the consensus was it wouldn't really matter.
We're not going for the football, just the habit, meeting up, having a few beers etc.
I don't want us to go down but I really can't see how much better it is to be a poor Championship side chocful of overpaid journeymen instead of an above average or even good League One side that will have to actually practise what it's preached about young players.
 
It would matter ALOT!
Yes we would jetison the high earners, but we would also take years to get back up.
 
Talking about it in the pub last night the consensus was it wouldn't really matter.
We're not going for the football, just the habit, meeting up, having a few beers etc.
I don't want us to go down but I really can't see how much better it is to be a poor Championship side chocful of overpaid journeymen instead of an above average or even good League One side that will have to actually practise what it's preached about young players.

You're confusing me len. Your title asked if it will matter, I assumed you'd already had it confirmed as definite. In this post you're saying it wouldn't really matter, almost as though it's not 100% certain as yet.

It's football, it's not real life and it doesn't matter at all. I'd be desperately disappointed if it happened, I don't think it will.
 
Thats not how I remember it, I thought we bounced back at the first attempt .......

You are correct, of course Worky. I meant the previous time.
The last time we bought Deano from Donny and away we soared.
Just cannot see such acting happening if we go down thus time. I think we would be like Charlton and really struggle.
 
if we get rid of monty and quinn id take relegation as one step back.. two forward.. i'm sure all of those 'admirers' of theirs will come piling in to take them on.. meh
 
We're going nowhere as a football club, have no direction, few players of any real ability and even if we were to stay up would it really matter?
All it would achieve would be another season of struggle, more loanings, more scuffling with a set of nomarks.
The board don't care and does it really matter if we go down?
Is existing like this better than winning a few more games in League One, potentially with a few younger players having a go instead of players who have no affinity at all to United?

Top post Len.

The board probably does care as it would less prize and tv money to line their pockets ..... or divert into the construction business.

Maybe relegation would be the best thing for the club. Perhaps we need to get worse (although this seems pretty difficult at the moment) before we get better. Going down to League One we would probably lose dead beats like Quinn, Monty, Cresswell, Ertl and Evans. Speed would have the chance to build a squad and bring in some youngsters. Plus we might actually win more than we lose. Ticket prices would go down for the fans and it might actually be fun to go and watch United again.
 
Top post Len.

The board probably does care as it would less prize and tv money to line their pockets ..... or divert into the construction business.

Maybe relegation would be the best thing for the club. Perhaps we need to get worse (although this seems pretty difficult at the moment) before we get better. Going down to League One we would probably lose dead beats like Quinn, Monty, Cresswell, Ertl and Evans. Speed would have the chance to build a squad and bring in some youngsters. Plus we might actually win more than we lose. Ticket prices would go down for the fans and it might actually be fun to go and watch United again.

'Divert into the construction business.' Nice phrase Ollie, like it!
 
Top post Len.

The board probably does care as it would less prize and tv money to line their pockets ..... or divert into the construction business.

Maybe relegation would be the best thing for the club. Perhaps we need to get worse (although this seems pretty difficult at the moment) before we get better. Going down to League One we would probably lose dead beats like Quinn, Monty, Cresswell, Ertl and Evans. Speed would have the chance to build a squad and bring in some youngsters. Plus we might actually win more than we lose. Ticket prices would go down for the fans and it might actually be fun to go and watch United again.

If the board were to lose some pocket lining by going down what makes you think they'd reduce ticket prices???

Also, watching United in the third division was rarely fun. Nice to see us spanking shit teams in 88/89, but not much fun. There were always nightmares like Chesterfield at home to contend with.
 
Top post Len.

The board probably does care as it would less prize and tv money to line their pockets ..... or divert into the construction business.

Maybe relegation would be the best thing for the club. Perhaps we need to get worse (although this seems pretty difficult at the moment) before we get better. Going down to League One we would probably lose dead beats like Quinn, Monty, Cresswell, Ertl and Evans. Speed would have the chance to build a squad and bring in some youngsters. Plus we might actually win more than we lose. Ticket prices would go down for the fans and it might actually be fun to go and watch United again.

Ok Olle, I'm going to bite now! :)

From where we were at the end of last season we needed a change of manager and to refresh things on the coaching side. We needed fresh ideas, but for whatever reason that decision wasn't taken at the time and we went through a full preseason with the old regime and then terminated the previous manager's contract after two games of the season. The timing of this was a major failing on the part of McCabe and Birch.

Whilst I think that Speed could be a forward thinking decision by the board, with the look to getting us playing a more attractive type of football, it will take time to change things. I don't believe that it makes the players that we have bad players, but some may not fit the bill. I'm sure Speed will work that out.

To suggest relegation will be "the best thing for the club" is ridiculous. To suggest relegation at this stage in the season is also a tad premature to say the least. I'm not suggesting that I'm too arrogant to believe that we can't go down, but I honestly think that with the current crop of fit players in the team then things will slowly pick up.

However, your suggestion of losing "dead beats" as you so eloquently call the the under performing players, is even more ridiculous. The players that we would lose would be the ones that other clubs want. The rest, providing they are still under contract would stay, unless we could find a buyer. So Speed would still be restricted.

Further suggestions that the board wouldn't care if we went down are also ridiculous, especially when they come from Lenners a man who himself doesn't offer his support to the team, complains constantly about the Senior management of the club, but offers no solution even when asked directly by others on here.

Yourself, Lenners and others may well be correct that we're on a downward spiral, but the constant jibes at the players, the manager, the coaching, Birch and McCabe and the clubs involvement in other activities without offering a way out do nothing.

Speed himself is less than two months into a difficult job, has had little time or money to freshen things up and is now feeling it even more with injuries and suspensions. For now at least he has the support of the fans, but for how much longer. Frankly i'm fed up of reading a lot of this "what if the world ends" rhetoric.
 
What if the world ends rhetoric?
Not really the case, is it Swiss. The club's going nowhere this season, next season or for the foreseeable future. We're just stuck.
In that context, I can't see it matters that much whether we go down and spend a season or more in League One.
If we stay up this year, we all know what'll happen next summer.
We'll need more loans, there'll be more weak attempts at papering over huge cracks, more half-truths from the board. (With the clappers probably reduced just to Dunc insisting we wait until August to see how the squad looks)
As for offering a way out, I don't see one unless money appears from somewhere. McCabe will have to make a decision shortly on whether he simply has to make funds available to stave off relegation.
Even if he does, it'll just be another loan or two, more short term fixes.
 
If the fans can accept - as the board has done - that it will be another 5 to 10 years before we get back to the Prem (our usual cycle) then I'd take one of those years to be in League 1, even League 2.

SOme new grounds to go to, big fish and all that, bigger away followings, players that are desperate to play for you. The Fourth Division season was possibly my best ever season following United some great memories which I couldn't have got if we'd milled about as an average as then Division 2 side for a decade or more.

Forgeting the money and balance sheet which modern day fans seem obsessed with but thinking about actual great times you had as a fan then I think some of the older fans may agree that what league you're in doesn't always matter quite as much as you think.
 
I think some of the older fans may agree that what league you're in doesn't always matter quite as much as you think.

McCabes head would explode if we were Relegated, he is looking to get out with some semblance of a Legacy left, which today, is the State of the Cladding and Paintwork around the Ground and a Big TV (secondhand from Cashconverters).

1 Year in the PL and 9 in the Championship aint much to shout about in his time in Charge.
 
McCabes head would explode if we were Relegated, he is looking to get out with some semblance of a Legacy left, which today, is the State of the Cladding and Paintwork around the Ground and a Big TV (secondhand from Cashconverters).

1 Year in the PL and 9 in the Championship aint much to shout about in his time in Charge.

and despite what people think, this is why I don't think he'd sit and watch us go down for the sake of a transfer or two. I agree though that he's in danger of letting all the good work go to waste and at the moment we're no better off on the pitch than we were when he took over, certainly positional wise we're not. There's no point in having this World-wide respect he's so keen on if we're languishing in the lower reaches of the Chumpionship or worse.
 



and despite what people think, this is why I don't think he'd sit and watch us go down for the sake of a transfer or two. I agree though that he's in danger of letting all the good work go to waste and at the moment we're no better off on the pitch than we were when he took over, certainly positional wise we're not. There's no point in having this World-wide respect he's so keen on if we're languishing in the lower reaches of the Chumpionship or worse.

Probably cough up some money for a couple of Players in the last 20 minutes of the Transfer Window in January ....
 

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