Wilder v Warnock

[Davalon]

When Warnock was here I had a few issues with him, mainly his embarrassing behaviour and interviews that I felt were ultimately no help, but over all appreciated fully the job he did. He was responsible for negative away tactics and poor January recruitment in the Prem, but I still felt we were incredibly unlucky ignoring the Tevez malarkey.

As the years have passed I've grown to realise and understand that Warnock isn't really a Blade in the way many seem to think, and also that whilst understanding how to get teams out of this league, especially when he has money, he's well out of his depth in the Prem. For a while I honestly felt he deserved more of a chance up there but his style is limited and that won't change now.

Tonight was telling. Lump it tactics nearly all second half playing the percentages, and whilst it ultimately paid off for a pretty undeserved point, that approach will be laughable in the Prem.

He's spent a fortune this season. Does anyone really believe Wilder wouldn't have us in a similar position but with a much more enjoyable style with the same finance?

I wasn't a Warnock hater when he was here by any stretch, but I watched him and Blackwell tonight from behind the dug out with Jepson, and whilst ultimately I will always be substance over style and you can't ignore Warnock's promotion record, I'm 100% convinced that we have the most progressive management team.

Hopefully at nearly 45 I still have many years left but I've sort of given up expecting to see us achieve anything of note. That said I know for sure that we have more chance with a football manager like Wilder than a successful but limited man like Warnock and his lower league backroom team.

 

[grafikhaus]

When Warnock was here I had a few issues with him, mainly his embarrassing behaviour and interviews that I felt were ultimately no help, but over all appreciated fully the job he did. He was responsible for negative away tactics and poor January recruitment in the Prem, but I still felt we were incredibly unlucky ignoring the Tevez malarkey.

As the years have passed I've grown to realise and understand that Warnock isn't really a Blade in the way many seem to think, and also that whilst understanding how to get teams out of this league, especially when he has money, he's well out of his depth in the Prem. For a while I honestly felt he deserved more of a chance up there but his style is limited and that won't change now.

Tonight was telling. Lump it tactics nearly all second half playing the percentages, and whilst it ultimately paid off for a pretty undeserved point, that approach will be laughable in the Prem.

He's spent a fortune this season. Does anyone really believe Wilder wouldn't have us in a similar position but with a much more enjoyable style with the same finance?

I wasn't a Warnock hater when he was here by any stretch, but I watched him and Blackwell tonight from behind the dug out with Jepson, and whilst ultimately I will always be substance over style and you can't ignore Warnock's promotion record, I'm 100% convinced that we have the most progressive management team.

Hopefully at nearly 45 I still have many years left but I've sort of given up expecting to see us achieve anything of note. That said I know for sure that we have more chance with a football manager like Wilder than a successful but limited man like Warnock and his lower league backroom team.

Agree with that. I've always had time for Warnock because he brought us some good times. Since he left us, he's become a parody of himself with his cringe-making attempts to ingratiate himself with whichever fans he's trying to impress. After last night, all the love has died. Yes, an away manager should celebrate a late, undeserved equaliser, but not one who claims to have affection for his previous club (anyway, besides the relief, his team had just blown the chance to set a new record - what's to celebrate?) would have gone in for the fist-pumping, badge-kissing fakery. When CW brings out a book, it will be fulsome in it's praise for United. One of Warnock's books was called 'Made in Sheffield'. Big deal, so he was born here. It should have been called '100% Warnock'.

Warnock's legacy at United is still being suffered. Despite all evidence to the contrary, a lot of people still say we're a 'big, up-and-attem, hoof team'. Like Betts and Blunkett in the 70s, his antics will be linked to 'Sheffield' for a long time.

So well done, Cardiff. You've deserved your promotion to the PL and have done it on merit. But now the fun begins. You'll be joining the likes of Watford, Stoke, Bournemouth etc. A bunch of tedious nonentities just there to make the numbers up, whipping-boys for the top five and destined to be 'reeled in' after 2/3 seasons in 'the promised land'. And that's precisely why CW won't 'jump ship'. He's got plenty of time left and a hasty move - while financially attractive - would likely 'damage the brand' (which is building nicely).

Finally, what gave me the most pleasure last night (apart from the superb display by the 'pub team') was watching the Cardiff fans celebrate as if they'd won a major trophy. Like the pigs in January, they knew they'd 'got away with it'. This club is going in the right direction.

 

[Rufus Smalls]

Fully agree with the OP.

If Cardiff reach the Premiership the kindest thing they can do is sack Warnock with a hefty pay off. Did great for us at Championship level but totally out of his depth in the Prem.

It might sound harsh but the money lost in getting relegated now outweighs any loyalty towards football managers. Football is primarily a business these days - and worse for it.

UTB.

 

[wizadry]

I’m just so glad I don’t have to watch a Warnock side week in week out, he somehow eventually gets the job done but it’s tedious, percentage football and mind numbingly shite to watch.

Wilder is already a better manager imo who has done all his management with a minuscule of the budgets Warnock has had to play with.

 

[Wards]

Getting them up with such an average set of players is some achievement so I’ll give him that.

He’s an absolute nob end though.

 

[diplomat]

They were quite horrible to watch weren’t they?

Agree with most of those comments above. It’s telling that a number of teams have celebrated like they’d just won something and is a testimony to us putting teams on the rack and is a huge positive of this year. There will always be times that you don’t quite get what you think you might deserve but it does feel a theme this year and it wouldn’t be unfair to give us, say four more points, and being a fairer reflection. (There’s a case to give us a lot more)

 

[Keen Blade]

Don't get me wrong , I enjoyed the Warnock years immensely from 02 to 06 , loved his anti-establishment "Battling Blades" attitude and the fact that he put us back on the map with some tremendous occasions.
But he got us relegated by his own inadequacy after Hulse broke his leg.

Contrast that with the situation this season after Coutts leg-break. The determination that Wilder has shown , with very little financial licence , to keep us in the mix by playing proper football , sets him in a class way above Warnock , both as a manager and as a Blade. Even if we never go up from the Championship.

 

[BridBladesman]

Did anyone read what Warnock said in the match program?

‘The atmosphere when your standing on the touchline looking around at the Welsh voices in full flow...I’ve always thought it was a Neil Warnock club’

Whoever pays his wages, he has to come out with that type of bilge....what a twat!

 

[Keen Blade]

They were quite horrible to watch weren’t they?

Agree with most of those comments above. It’s telling that a number of teams have celebrated like they’d just won something and is a testimony to us putting teams on the rack and is a huge positive of this year. There will always be times that you don’t quite get what you think you might deserve but it does feel a theme this year and it wouldn’t be unfair to give us, say four more points, and being a fairer reflection. (There’s a case to give us a lot more)

All that's missing is a younger quality striker - but , unfortunately , it's on the solution to that very narrow but expensive gap , that the ultimate fate of our Club depends.

CW said as much in his almost tearful interview last night.
Gids asked him how to address the points thrown away after dominant performances , by the failure to convert good scoring chances.
Chris replied "...well , there's one way , isn't there ?"
A clear reference to going out and paying the (ludicrous) market value for a goalscorer.

Let's hope we get a cheap young Brian Deane and not an expensive Chris Guthrie.

And that we don't have to keep selling the DCLs to Everton in order to keep ticket prices low , yet stay afloat during the coming ownership wrangle.

 

[LSF]

Quite a few like minded people on this thread, superbly opened by Davalon and continued in similar fashion by Graf.
Kind of encapsulates my feelings off to a tee.
I enjoyed the vast majority of the Warnock years and have always acknowledged his achievements since his departure, never quite understanding the vitriol he receives on here, but half agreeing he comes across as a twat sometimes (purely subjective as most people have a twattish side at times).
Last night, having a rare appearance (for me) in the directors box, I found myself watching his antics with disdain and thinking what a full weight cunt he really is, culminating in a rare outburst of stood up screaming " fuck off yer big nosed twat"....
Most un directors box behaviour I must say, but I felt strangely pleased I'd finally seen the light...
Not sure I'll be invited again

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Although he is coming to the end of his career, he is still a high quality operator at this level. He is being paid to do a job and achieve a goal at Cardiff. Unless there is a collapse of Devon Loch proportions, he's got Cardiff promoted at the expense of better, more expensively assembled footballing sides. If the players buy into his methods, he creates formidable teams. We can slag him to high heaven, but them's the facts. He is a master of mind games, and he is as clever as creating a persona as Sir AF/Mourinho was/is.

I think Cardiff would be wise to thank him kindly for his work, pay him a £1m promotion bonus, give him his P45 and bring in someone else. Someone more progressive, more polished. I don't think that that will happen and GLTTL.

 

[Hackblade]

Warnock is the last manager to have undoubtedly left SUFC in a better state than when he arrived. I will always admire him for that. The rest is froth.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Is it ok off I like and admire both of them?

Is it possible that both are very good managers just at different stages of their careers.

Some utter bilge written on here about the Warnock style of play.

Our 2002-03 team weren’t mind-numbingly shite to watch. His QPR team built around the skills of Tarrabt didn’t play percentage football.

He builds promotion-winning teams making the best use of the resources at his disposal.

Where is the Wilder v Weir thread? He played good, passing football right?

 

[wizadry]

Our 2002-03 team weren’t mind-numbingly shite to watch. His QPR team built around the skills of Tarrabt didn’t play percentage football.

It’s all about opinions mate, I’ve always thought his teams were about percentage upandatem football, that’s my opinion, you don’t have to agree but he played it exactly like this again only last night.

And it’s fine if you want to like them both, I just tend to like a decent bloke over a obnoxious twat of a manager every day of the week.

 

[PaulHalfway]

I was never keen on Warnock for all the reasons we know about, but you have to give him credit when he took over Cardiff last year they were struggling near the bottom of the league. They are now on the virge of automatic promotion, competing with much bigger clubs with massive budgets.

 

[grafikhaus]

I’m just so glad I don’t have to watch a Warnock side week in week out, he somehow eventually gets the job done but it’s tedious, percentage football and mind numbingly shite to watch.

Wilder is already a better manager imo who has done all his management with a minuscule of the budgets Warnock has had to play with.

100%. there are a number of clubs who's fans don't bother going because of the shite on offer. Teams like Stoke, Watford, any team with the likes of Pulis/Hughes/Pardew in charge. And, at our level, Hull and, yes, Cardiff. It's not all about winning, the fans want to be entertained and see a high degree of skill and passion and the attendances at the aforementioned clubs reflect that.

 

[LSF]

I've never quite bought into the hoof accusation afforded to Warnock's teams, we played some entertaining stuff in the better years of his tenure.
However, the contrast in approach was blindingly obvious last night, ours being the easier on the eye.
The result says it all I guess...

 

[wizadry]

I've never quite bought into the hoof accusation afforded to Warnock's teams, we played some entertaining stuff in the better years of his tenure.
However, the contrast in approach was blindingly obvious last night, ours being the easier on the eye.
The result says it all I guess...

More than one way to skin a cat springs to mind and there is, I just prefer our way, going about it how Wilder and all the staff do.

 

[coaxingstar71]

I think it's fairly obvious that Wilder has a lot of respect for Warnock. I believe that should tell us something.

I have one question though, where's Warnock's eyebrows gone?

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

I think it's fairly obvious that Wilder has a lot of respect for Warnock. I believe that should tell us something.

I have one question though, where's Warnock's eyebrows gone?

Too much moisturiser. I suspect that at the training ground Neil is kept in a hole, and Blackwell puts the lotion in the basket, and Neil puts the lotion on his skin or he gets the hose again.

 

[Silent Blade]

A Swansea mate tagged me in Facebook to read a thread written by a Swans fan on last night's match

In order to see what we will be up against next season I watched Cardiff last night, playing against Sheff Utd. Absolutely amazed at the poor quality of our neighbours to be honest. Not saying this because I'm a Swans fan, it's just my honest opinion. They were dreadful and by rights should have lost by 3 or 4 goals. The fact that they came away with a point is incredible. If Cardiff are promoted they will need to buy big time. Long ball tactics in the premier league won't work for them. By the way, does anyone like their manager, what a dick!

 

[CrookesBlade]

100%. there are a number of clubs who's fans don't bother going because of the shite on offer. Teams like Stoke, Watford, any team with the likes of Pulis/Hughes/Pardew in charge. And, at our level, Hull and, yes, Cardiff. It's not all about winning, the fans want to be entertained and see a high degree of skill and passion and the attendances at the aforementioned clubs reflect that.

Whilst I don’t disagree with your point or that Cardiff are poor to watch, people turned up in droves to see United under Warnock.

 

[blade67]

I'm enjoying watching this team more than any side since Spackman. The 2003 team did play some decent stuff as well TBF. Wilder is also a much more engaging public persona. I say that because I know people who know Warnock on a personal level and reckon he's a nice guy. In public he comes across as a right knob and always has done, even when in charge of the blades

 

[SelbyBlade]

I have slagged off Warnock in other threads and really don't like the guy. But one "legacy" that still exists is Warnock's belief in the Academy that has produced a few decent players for us, England and now Wales. Warnock came up with the idea that 10% of all transfers should go to the running of the Academy. I believe it was during the days when McCabe and Warnock were still on talking terms that the Academy was created. So I thank Warnock for that part of his tenure. I will also remember that triple assault team which was better than the promotion team and the team in the Prem. I can't forget the goals Browny scored that year and the 3-1 win over the pigs. So although I think he is a greedy self obsessed prick he did do some good at the lane.

 

[Sean Thornton]

When Cornish farmer Neil hears a mysterious voice one night in his head, saying "If you build it, Build it with someone else's money and claim it's your own idea," he feels the need to act. Despite taunts of greed. Neil builds an academy, supported by his lickspittle, Blackie, . Afterward, the ghosts of shite players start emerging from the crops to sit on the bench, led by "Appearanceless Geoff Horsefield" and managed by "Classless Colin Wanker"

But, as Neil learns, this field of dreams is about much more than bringing former wastes of money out to play. It'll make a great story for his next book.



Taken from the novel "Field of dreams"

Another Neil Warnock autobiography.

 

[Champagneblade]

I don’t see why Cardiff would bin him.

Cardiff are by no stretch a Premier League Club.

They may be in there next season but that’s it.

Who would they employ? Get Pards in? Give Mark Hughes a crack at relegation with another club?

Warnock isn’t an easy person to defend but when has he ever had the same crack at it as the above?

He had his “happy to be here, give me a new contract” season with us, which if you read that United took up the option on the same terms, was disgusting.

He had QPR there when Briatore was selling and gave him no money.

He had Notts County as well.

Not a pot to piss in between them once he got them up.

Did he cock up the JTW with us? Yes. Should he have gone for Koumas at one point? Possibly. But you look at the chances the recycled shyte like Hughes, Pardew, Redknapp and others get and he could do no worse. He’s certainly not been given anywhere near the chances they have despite such a long and successful career.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I don’t see why Cardiff would bin him.

Cardiff are by no stretch a Premier League Club.

They may be in there next season but that’s it.

Who would they employ? Get Pards in? Give Mark Hughes a crack at relegation with another club?

Warnock isn’t an easy person to defend but when has he ever had the same crack at it as the above?

He had his “happy to be here, give me a new contract” season with us, which if you read that United took up the option on the same terms, was disgusting.

He had QPR there when Briatore was selling and gave him no money.

He had Notts County as well.

Not a pot to piss in between them once he got them up.

Did he cock up the JTW with us? Yes. Should he have gone for Koumas at one point? Possibly. But you look at the chances the recycled shyte like Hughes, Pardew, Redknapp and others get and he could do no worse. He’s certainly not been given anywhere near the chances they have despite such a long and successful career.

Briatore had left QPR before Warnock got them promoted to the PL. Fernandez let him spend around £10m for the start of the season.

 

[Deleted member 875]

I’d predicted that before the match on Monday night that Warnock and his behaviour would be one the subject being discussed the following day.

I even said before the match that if Cardiff had have won, I was expecting him to come out with some self serving drivel like ‘I still think Sheffield United fans wish they had never let me go’.

Said it before the match and I’ll say it again. Neil Warnocks biggest fan is Neil Warnock. Seen the Neil Warnock show so many times before that it barely even registers any more,

 

[Revolution]

Warnock is the last manager to have undoubtedly left SUFC in a better state than when he arrived. I will always admire him for that. The rest is froth.

Whilst I don't particularly like defending him, this also applies to Nigel Clough I think.

As for Warnock, he's on his way to another promotion. He's got a very good record in that area. He must be doing something right.

Cardiff may yet show him the door if they go up. I wouldn't put it past Vincent Tan.

I find it remarkable that some people seem to have changed their opinion of him on the basis of the end of Monday's game. He's always been the same. He has no special affection for us. He's for himself and no one else (and that's not a particular criticism, just an observation).

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

I don’t see why Cardiff would bin him.

Cardiff are by no stretch a Premier League Club.

They may be in there next season but that’s it.

Who would they employ? Get Pards in? Give Mark Hughes a crack at relegation with another club?

Warnock isn’t an easy person to defend but when has he ever had the same crack at it as the above?

He had his “happy to be here, give me a new contract” season with us, which if you read that United took up the option on the same terms, was disgusting.

He had QPR there when Briatore was selling and gave him no money.

He had Notts County as well.

Not a pot to piss in between them once he got them up.

Did he cock up the JTW with us? Yes. Should he have gone for Koumas at one point? Possibly. But you look at the chances the recycled shyte like Hughes, Pardew, Redknapp and others get and he could do no worse. He’s certainly not been given anywhere near the chances they have despite such a long and successful career.

If Cardiff get promoted they have an opportunity & the funds to change the direction/future of the club for ever. If they believe that that is better undertaken without a narcissistic 69yr old manager, lacking in top flight experience, with a preference for direct football, then they'll change manager.

The only clubs that can claim to be 'premier league clubs' are the ones in the premier league. If Cardiff get promoted then they are by rights a premier league club, and then they go about protecting that status. Just like swansea, stoke, bournemouth and brighton, whom I suspect you'd also not class as premier league clubs. We've had a go at it twice and fucked it up, although admittedly not as badly as Hull City, which I still can't get over, but fair play to the 'little' clubs that haven't.

As a premier league club, they have their pick of a great deal of managers world wide, as they know they would get paid handsomely, increase their profile and would have money to spend on players. If Cardiff asked politely & paid the compo, (at worst) they could have any manager outside the top three clubs of all european leagues. The fact that a number of clubs continue to pick the usual detritus is their own fault, and doesn't need to be a trend that is repeated.