Wilder to Leicester meltdown thread

[Chali 2na]

I think you are too. Stalemate. Daft argument isn't it?

Yes, it's a stalemate; that's why I offered the bet.

I'd say the probability is very high we would be back down within 1-2 years

"Probability is very high" ≠ inevitable

That's the same as saying Wilder would have got us up last year if he'd spent the money more wisely in the JTW instead of buying countless players he didn't play. It's easy being a master of hindsight isn't it? The fact is neither of them had sufficient funds to get the right players in to get the job done.

Not really.

Wilder spent approximately £1.8m last January. I don't think there was a player available at the time that would have made up the 22 points between us and Cardiff, for that fee.

Warnock spent around £12m on 14 players, however only 3/4 actually made any meaningful impact.
We went down on goal difference, so it's a reasonable assumption that if we spent the money better, we would have stayed up.

Yes it's hindsight, but that's how you learn from the past. We shouldn't have trusted Warnock with that kind of money.


P.S: Your claim that Robson spent more money in 07/08 than Warnock in 06/07 Is wrong.

 

[Fanny magnet]

Yes, it's a stalemate; that's why I offered the bet.



"Probability is very high" ≠ inevitable




Not really.

Wilder spent approximately £1.8m last January. I don't think there was a player available at the time that would have made up the 22 points between us and Cardiff, for that fee.

Warnock spent around £12m on 14 players, however only 3/4 actually made any meaningful impact.
We went down on goal difference, so it's a reasonable assumption that if we spent the money better, we would have stayed up.

Yes it's hindsight, but that's how you learn from the past. We shouldn't have trusted Warnock with that kind of money.


P.S: Your claim that Robson spent more money in 07/08 than Warnock in 06/07 Is wrong.

It was the wages that hamstrung us in the prem
Our highest earner was jags on 13k a week the second lowest (highest earner at a club )in the division ,Warnock stated several times he was talking to players but they wanted three times what we were offering

ROBSON didn't have that problem and could bring in the players he wanted

 

[Chali 2na]

It was the wages that hamstrung us in the prem
Our highest earner was jags on 13k a week the second lowest (highest earner at a club )in the division ,Warnock stated several times he was talking to players but they wanted three times what we were offering

ROBSON didn't have that problem and could bring in the players he wanted

That's not how football budgets work (unless a a wage cap is imposed.)

Managers are given a budget to spend how they please. The more players it has to be spread over and the more money spent on transfer fees* means less money available to pay wages.

*This is a simplified way of looking at it because generally up front fees are uncommon and are accounted for using amortisation. The fee will be worked out as a monthly/annual cost to the club.

 

[Chali 2na]

It was the wages that hamstrung us in the prem
Our highest earner was jags on 13k a week the second lowest (highest earner at a club )in the division ,Warnock stated several times he was talking to players but they wanted three times what we were offering

ROBSON didn't have that problem and could bring in the players he wanted

This video does a good job of visualising amortisation:

 

[snootyfenooty]

Yes, it's a stalemate; that's why I offered the bet.



"Probability is very high" ≠ inevitable




Not really.

Wilder spent approximately £1.8m last January. I don't think there was a player available at the time that would have made up the 22 points between us and Cardiff, for that fee.

Warnock spent around £12m on 14 players, however only 3/4 actually made any meaningful impact.
We went down on goal difference, so it's a reasonable assumption that if we spent the money better, we would have stayed up.

Yes it's hindsight, but that's how you learn from the past. We shouldn't have trusted Warnock with that kind of money.


P.S: Your claim that Robson spent more money in 07/08 than Warnock in 06/07 Is wrong.

You're just playing at semantics now which is a very poor way of conducting an argument. It's what politicians do. And only a fool makes a bet 3 years in advance. It doesn't make you right because I decline it.

Robson's budget was higher than Warnock's. It's never been disputed until you came along and Fanny magnet has kindly explained the rationale as to why.

 

[Chali 2na]

You're just playing at semantics now which is a very poor way of conducting an argument. It's what politicians do. And only a fool makes a bet 3 years in advance. It doesn't make you right because I decline it.

We both argue like politicians: I use semantics and you skirt awkward questions.

And I never said not taking the bet makes me right, it just implies it.

Robson's budget was higher than Warnock's. It's never been disputed until you came along and Fanny magnet has kindly explained the rationale as to why.

I've provided you the links above proving that's not the case. Are you just going to at out ignore them?

Also, did you read my response to Fanny magnet?

 

[snootyfenooty]

We both argue like politicians: I use semantics and you skirt awkward questions.

And I never said not taking the bet makes me right, it just implies it.



I've provided you the links above proving that's not the case. Are you just going to at out ignore them?

Also, did you read my response to Fanny magnet?

I ignored them because you obviously don't understand them yourself. Wages are a part of the budget you know and in addition to the transfer budget, Robson was given the authority to pay the likes of Beattie, Gillespie and Naysmith double or treble what Jagielka (our highest paid player in the Premiership) was paid.

You may be interested to know United have made a profit once in their history. It was made during Warnok's premiership year. We managed to blow the parachute money and the Tevez money over the next few years starting with Robson and this has culminated in the ownership fuck-up we are currently embroiled in.

 

[Chali 2na]

I ignored them because you obviously don't understand them yourself. Wages are a part of the budget you know and in addition to the transfer budget, Robson was given the authority to pay the likes of Beattie, Gillespie and Naysmith double or treble what Jagielka (our highest paid player in the Premiership) was paid.

You're wrong, again. Watch the video I posted.

You may be interested to know United have made a profit once in their history. It was made during Warnok's premiership year. We managed to blow the parachute money and the Tevez money over the next few years starting with Robson and this has culminated in the ownership fuck-up we are currently embroiled in.

Yeah, I wonder why that is? Wouldn't have anything to do with the TV deal would it?

 

[snootyfenooty]

You're wrong, again. Watch the video I posted.



Yeah, I wonder why that is? Wouldn't have anything to do with the TV deal would it?

No thanks, I'd rather watch Spongebob, it's more intellectually stimulating than continuing this discussion with you.

 

[oldblade]

P.S: Your claim that Robson spent more money in 07/08 than Warnock in 06/07 Is wrong.

I suppose it depends on what we are talking about as money spent.

I don't know what the figures are with regard to transfers in and out of the club. It may well be that Warnock's net spend on transfers was higher than Robson's.

But the club accounts for the premier league season under Warnock and the following season under Robson/Blackwell show that Warnock's wage bill was the lower of the two.

Total wages and salaries for 2006-7 were £20,059,000.

Total wages and salaries for 2007-8 were £22,593,000.

 

[Chali 2na]

No thanks, I'd rather watch Spongebob, it's more intellectually stimulating than continuing this discussion with you.

You're bowing out, fair enough.

I suppose it depends on what we are talking about as money spent.

I don't know what the figures are with regard to transfers in and out of the club. It may well be that Warnock's net spend on transfers was higher than Robson's.

But the club accounts for the premier league season under Warnock and the following season under Robson/Blackwell show that Warnock's wage bill was the lower of the two.

Total wages and salaries for 2006-7 were £20,059,000.

Total wages and salaries for 2007-8 were £22,593,000.

I was talking about net spend, though I find the figures you've posted interesting.

I wonder if that includes the compensation for sacking him and his staff part way through the season. If so, it would indicate they had a roughly simalar ammount.

Snootyfenooty's point about Robson having more money is therefore partially true. If you look at the links I posted above though you can see that in terms of money spent on players, the figure for Warnock is greater than for Robson.

 

[oldblade]

You're bowing out, fair enough.



I was talking about net spend, though I find the figures you've posted interesting.

I wonder if that includes the compensation for sacking him and his staff part way through the season. If so, it would indicate they had a roughly simalar ammount.

Snootyfenooty's point about Robson having more money is therefore partially true. If you look at the links I posted above though you can see that in terms of money spent on players, the figure for Warnock is greater than for Robson.

I'm not sure if the figures include any compensation.

The section on staff costs just breaks things down under 4 headings: wages and salaries, social security costs, pension costs, share based payment expense.

The combined totals for the two years are:
2006/7 - £22,421,000.
2007/8 - £24,988,000.

There is a section showing amortisation and impairment costs of player registrations: 2006/7 £4.8 million, 2007-8 £6.5 million. I think that is where a player's signing on fees etc are spread over the term of the contract, but I'm not an accountant, so not sure.

And there is something called Termination payments:
2006/7 - £950,000
2007/8 - £520,000
I suppose that might be it, but it doesn't specify to whom these payments went (players, staff or management).

There is also a heading showing profit on disposal of player registrations, which might be net amounts from transfers?
2006/7 - £661,000
2007/8 - £7,264,000

But I do find the accounts pretty difficult to read!

 

[snootyfenooty]

You're bowing out, fair enough.



I was talking about net spend, though I find the figures you've posted interesting.

I wonder if that includes the compensation for sacking him and his staff part way through the season. If so, it would indicate they had a roughly simalar ammount.

Snootyfenooty's point about Robson having more money is therefore partially true. If you look at the links I posted above though you can see that in terms of money spent on players, the figure for Warnock is greater than for Robson.

Nope, not bowing out.

Firstly I don't need a a patronising link to a video to explain to me what player amortisation is
Secondly your video doesn't state that Robson's budget was greater than Warnock's or vice versa, which was the crux of the argument.
Thirdly your posts either start or conclude with the statement "you are wrong" which is not conducive to a reasoned debate

The figures oldblade has provided disprove your argument if you are able to piece the bits together. Furthermore, you can rest assured that my old mate and pet troll Sean Thornton would have been all over this like a rash if my assertion was incorrect.

 

[Fanny magnet]

It's nothing to do with amortisation ,if ypure top.earner is on 13 k a week and you bring in players on 39 k a week then your top earner knocks on your door asking for parity and just behind him are the agents of the rest of your squad so you're 20 million budget for fees and wages has been swallowed up and you have a 30 million hole in your accounts

 

[Chali 2na]

Nope, not bowing out.

Firstly I don't need a a patronising link to a video to explain to me what player amortisation is
Secondly your video doesn't state that Robson's budget was greater than Warnock's or vice versa, which was the crux of the argument.
Thirdly your posts either start or conclude with the statement "you are wrong" which is not conducive to a reasoned debate

The figures oldblade has provided disprove your argument if you are able to piece the bits together. Furthermore, you can rest assured that my old mate and pet troll Sean Thornton would have been all over this like a rash if my assertion was incorrect.

I'll make it easy for you:

During the 06/07 season, Neil Warnock spent £16.22m on transfers and £20.77m on wages. That totals £36.99m.

During the 07/08 season, Bryan Robson spent £9.5m on transfers and £21.54m on wages. That totals £31.04m.

36.99 IS A BIGGER NUMBER THAN 31.04.

I hope this helps.

 

[snootyfenooty]

I'll make it easy for you:

During the 06/07 season, Neil Warnock spent £16.22m on transfers and £20.77m on wages. That totals £36.99m.

During the 07/08 season, Bryan Robson spent £9.5m on transfers and £21.54m on wages. That totals £31.04m.

36.99 IS A BIGGER NUMBER THAN 31.04.

I hope this helps.

No need to shout. Unfortunately balance sheets don't work like this. I'll give you 6/10 though for discovering bold font and colouring.

 

[Chali 2na]

No need to shout. Unfortunately balance sheets don't work like this. I'll give you 6/10 though for discovering bold font and colouring.

I never mentioned balance sheets - that's the club, not the manager. You said Robson spent more money than Warnock: You were wrong.

I can't make it any more clear for you, and a wise man once told me not to argue with idiots as from a distance people can't tell who's who. Considering, in your infinite wisdom, you once thought the Hillsborough disaster constituted as an act of genocide, it's clear you're intellectually challenged, therefore I'll leave the discussion here.

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

They will go for a glamour manager. Winning the title has dazzled them.

Is a “glamour manager” like a glamour model—a manager who gets his norks out for public consumption?

If so, there’s only one realistic candidate:





Phwoar! Serious “glamour” on that one

 

[Snowman]

OUCH!!! STOP WI DA BIG RED NUMBERS.

 

[snootyfenooty]

I never mentioned balance sheets - that's the club, not the manager. You said Robson spent more money than Warnock: You were wrong.

I can't make it any more clear for you, and a wise man once told me not to argue with idiots as from a distance people can't tell who's who. Considering, in your infinite wisdom, you once thought the Hillsborough disaster constituted as an act of genocide, it's clear you're intellectually challenged, therefore I'll leave the discussion here.

Tsk. I didn't say Robson spent more money than Warnock, I said he had a higher budget to work with. Try again.

I note you can't help repeating the mantra "you were wrong" as the defining part of your argument. Very immature.

As for you dragging up a quote of mine from a random post from what, a year ago that even I had forgotten about? That's pretty fucking sad mate before I even go into stalking behaviour.

 

[Chali 2na]

Tsk. I didn't say Robson spent more money than Warnock, I said he had a higher budget to work with. Try again.

I note you can't help repeating the mantra "you were wrong" as the defining part of your argument. Very immature.

As for you dragging up a quote of mine from a random post from what, a year ago that even I had forgotten about? That's pretty fucking sad mate before I even go into stalking behaviour.

Please see above

 

[snootyfenooty]

Please see above

Thought you said you'd left the discussion. I suspected not, classic last-word merchant. The next one's your's, I'll leave it at that as I don't want this to go on too long and make you late for school tomorrow.

 

[Chali 2na]

Thought you said you'd left the discussion. I suspected not, classic last-word merchant. The next one's your's, I'll leave it at that as I don't want this to go on too long and make you late for school tomorrow.

Please see above

 

[Sean Thornton]

Nope, not bowing out.

Firstly I don't need a a patronising link to a video to explain to me what player amortisation is
Secondly your video doesn't state that Robson's budget was greater than Warnock's or vice versa, which was the crux of the argument.
Thirdly your posts either start or conclude with the statement "you are wrong" which is not conducive to a reasoned debate

The figures oldblade has provided disprove your argument if you are able to piece the bits together. Furthermore, you can rest assured that my old mate and pet troll Sean Thornton would have been all over this like a rash if my assertion was incorrect.

I initially read your assertion that the club had only once made a profit throughout our history, guffawed and thought, I'll leave that one alone. Only because it's not correct though and I don't like to see old men cry


Anyway, now you've poked the bear....
For who spent what Red Wine Robbo or Colin, The transfer fee additions in 2006/2007 totalled £12, 058011. The following season £8,733733.

The wage figures were £20,774243 abd £21,553660.

Warnock therefore spent more.

Hope this helps.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Oh, and thereforehad a bigger budget. Obviously.

 

[Sean Thornton]

It was the wages that hamstrung us in the prem
Our highest earner was jags on 13k a week the second lowest (highest earner at a club )in the division ,Warnock stated several times he was talking to players but they wanted three times what we were offering

ROBSON didn't have that problem and could bring in the players he wanted

The facts - bastard things that they are - show otherwise.

 

[JOEYDEE]

Not even on bookies radar! Lampard is at 25/1 Rowett 33/1bielsa 40/1.
They should be busting their balls to get him. Thank fuck they are not though.

Joint 7th fav at 20/1 with Benitez !
Illustriate company indeed !

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Well someone has to start this! Leicester have sacked Claude Puel, will Wilder be on their radar?

If Wilders off to Leicester its because he's seen a new car on AutoTrader.

 

[grafikhaus]

Best man for the job? Easy, it’s Eddie Howe but they’d have to wait for the summer.

Howe failed in his brief tenure at Burnley before returning to Bournemouth. It's not just about players and money - sometimes an indefinable 'chemistry' just clicks which is something we're seeing with CW and the Blades, and is extremely unlikely to be replicated at another club. New managers arrive at clubs, have a staged photo holding their (latest) club scarf aloft taken and shortly leave. And repeat. CW bleeds Sheffield United.

I just cannot see CW leaving us for anyone right now. We are riding the crest of a wave & I think he will be looking forward to a future with us & possibly achieving more than any previous SUFC manager. Of course I know that is a long long way off but if we keep steadily improving as a club & matching his personal ambitions just imagine how good that would be!

Totally agree. 'It's not the destination, it's the journey' (Ralph Waldo Emerson) and what a journey we're on! Not just since CW came - we fans had six years of third-tier crap where we were becoming an 'established' Division One team - emphasised by our 11th spot finish under Badkins. But us fans stood by the club (19,387 average over those six years), no 'Johnny-Come-Lately Tourist Fans' with their fucking clackers (Leicester, Huddersfield etc.) who think every game will end in a win and turn against the manager when they don't.
Also CW knows he can knock on McCabe's door at any time - at clubs like Leicester he'd be a new face and just another tier in the corporate structure.

They've got no chance. Leicester, Wolves and West Ham will be down in 3 years. Everton seem to have more lives than a cat.

It's highly unlikely Wolves will do anything other than join the 'big six'. The £170bn Fosun Group want them to be 'as big as Manchester City' (not as daft as it sounds - there are 60 cities in China bigger than Manchester). The 'authorities' simply won't allow West Ham to go down and Everton? Who cares? They had 11 years of stagnation and treading water under Moyes and continue to fall even further behind Liverpool and it's only tribal loyalty that keeps Everton's fans on board. Ditto Leicester. Who cares? Besides, there'll be new whipping boys in the PL next season who Lineker, Scudamore & co. will be desperate to fail so the cosy private members club that the PL has become isn't discomfited. Could be us, could be Norwich. We'll live.

 

[finlaytheblade]

If I was Leicester I'd go all out for Rafa tbh.

Why would he leave a massive club like Newcastle for Leicester ,they are not in the same league potential wise.