Wilder - Get Rid Now, or After Last Game

[Sean Thornton]

Yep. Wendy fans will be convinced by that attendance, some on here will be convinced by 102 votes

#92points

 

[Tom Bott]

How much has wilder wasted in the last two January windows?

Bamford was free how much did that cost?
Jaïro Riedewald was also a free agent.
You could of course add the £10 million for Cannon from the previous January then divide by 3 to get a figure of £ 3.33 million for Bamford and try to make a case for that being 'waste'.

Or that the signing of Danny Ings by the non Wilder summer superstars was money better spent.

My basic mathematics suggests that Wilder has wasted considerably less this season than COH/Selles/James Bord managed during last summer.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Bamford was free how much did that cost?
Jaïro Riedewald was also a free agent.
You could of course add the £10 million for Cannon from the previous January then divide by 3 to get a figure of £ 3.33 million for Bamford and try to make a case for that being 'waste'.

Or that the signing of Danny Ings by the non Wilder summer superstars was money better spent.

My basic mathematics suggests that Wilder has wasted considerably less this season than COH/Selles/James Bord managed during last summer.

Neither Bamford nor Jairo were free. Signing fees for out of contract players can be enormous, it’s not just a question of a weekly wage. I’ve seen enough players’ contracts to know you are talking serious amounts. You can add to this the wages of all of the loanees in the two January windows. It will all come to an enormous amount.

 

[Gin&Juice]

Wilder the next transfer window:

Mister La-De-Dah Gunner Lenihan

 

[UTB Blade]

Perhaps so but usually there is a good mix on threads for and against

I take your point, but let me ask you how many pro-Wilder posters you think want to come on this thread and risk abuse from the pack of anti-Wilders on the thread. Anyone coming on this thread to stick up for CW is not so much fighting a losing battle, as clearing up the remaining UXBs from a war that finished eons ago.

Contrary to the impression given by this thread, there are a great many Blades supporting Wilder and wanting him to continue as manager, but they're not on this thread, or probably even on the Blades sections of the forum, very much at the moment, because they know the anti-Wilders' minds are made up, and that if they try and argue in his favour, they just get abuse or ridicule.

It doesn't mean that there aren't a great many of us still supporting Wilder - there are, it's just that a lot of us have realised that trying to defend him on threads like this is casting pearls before swine, so we've decided to spend our time with people who do appreciate Wilder, not waste time on the ones who don't.

 

[LBA_Blade]

Bamford was free how much did that cost?
Jaïro Riedewald was also a free agent.
You could of course add the £10 million for Cannon from the previous January then divide by 3 to get a figure of £ 3.33 million for Bamford and try to make a case for that being 'waste'.

Or that the signing of Danny Ings by the non Wilder summer superstars was money better spent.

My basic mathematics suggests that Wilder has wasted considerably less this season than COH/Selles/James Bord managed during last summer.

The counter argument is that Wilder had a January window with 0 success, Ings with his goals gained us 4 points (not massive but kept us safe) Not sure how much our wage bill is but we have to be careful now parachute money has gone, although free signings are great £30k plus a week is stretching it

 

[Aston max]

I was honestly thinking about punching the badge on my shirt today but knowing the state of my heart it'd be waiting for the electric shock
Thanks mum for the dodgy ticker
Thanks dad for prostate cancer ! Oh as well you old twat for taking me to BDTBL when I was 4 and making me fall in love !! bet you're sat on your cloud pissing yourself now .

 

[Danetheblade]

Contrary to the impression given by this thread, there are a great many Blades supporting Wilder and wanting him to continue as manager, but they're not on this thread, or probably even on the Blades sections of the forum, very much at the moment, because they know the anti-Wilders' minds are made up, and that if they try and argue in his favour, they just get abuse or ridicule.

It doesn't mean that there aren't a great many of us still supporting Wilder - there are, it's just that a lot of us have realised that trying to defend him on threads like this is casting pearls before swine, so we've decided to spend our time with people who do appreciate Wilder, not waste time on the ones who don't.

I think it’s ironic that that’s how the “anti-Wilder” posters got treated before it went to complete shit.

 

[FINUK]

Bamford was free how much did that cost?
Jaïro Riedewald was also a free agent.
You could of course add the £10 million for Cannon from the previous January then divide by 3 to get a figure of £ 3.33 million for Bamford and try to make a case for that being 'waste'.

Or that the signing of Danny Ings by the non Wilder summer superstars was money better spent.

My basic mathematics suggests that Wilder has wasted considerably less this season than COH/Selles/James Bord managed during last summer.

They don’t play for free - wages are biggest outgoing -and we’ve got worse after been “safe”
Wouldn’t give wilder a penny on transfers - freebie’s is his limy

Just like United - best players have always cost naff all

 

[Nick Jansky]

I take your point, but let me ask you how many pro-Wilder posters you think want to come on this thread and risk abuse from the pack of anti-Wilders on the thread. Anyone coming on this thread to stick up for CW is not so much fighting a losing battle, as clearing up the remaining UXBs from a war that finished eons ago.

Contrary to the impression given by this thread, there are a great many Blades supporting Wilder and wanting him to continue as manager, but they're not on this thread, or probably even on the Blades sections of the forum, very much at the moment, because they know the anti-Wilders' minds are made up, and that if they try and argue in his favour, they just get abuse or ridicule.

It doesn't mean that there aren't a great many of us still supporting Wilder - there are, it's just that a lot of us have realised that trying to defend him on threads like this is casting pearls before swine, so we've decided to spend our time with people who do appreciate Wilder, not waste time on the ones who don't.

There are also a great many who want Wilder out who aren’t on this forum.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I take your point, but let me ask you how many pro-Wilder posters you think want to come on this thread and risk abuse from the pack of anti-Wilders on the thread. Anyone coming on this thread to stick up for CW is not so much fighting a losing battle, as clearing up the remaining UXBs from a war that finished eons ago.

Contrary to the impression given by this thread, there are a great many Blades supporting Wilder and wanting him to continue as manager, but they're not on this thread, or probably even on the Blades sections of the forum, very much at the moment, because they know the anti-Wilders' minds are made up, and that if they try and argue in his favour, they just get abuse or ridicule.

It doesn't mean that there aren't a great many of us still supporting Wilder - there are, it's just that a lot of us have realised that trying to defend him on threads like this is casting pearls before swine, so we've decided to spend our time with people who do appreciate Wilder, not waste time on the ones who don't.

“Pearls before swine”


Bigger Blade alert…….

 

[RAP51]

Just as well, because it compensated for the very large amount of money wasted on the Phillips, Hoever and Hjelde signings.

And maybe Rothwell

 

[Nick Jansky]

And maybe Rothwell

I think he’ll maybe offer something next season. Useful squad player.

 

[UTB Blade]

I think it’s ironic that that’s how the “anti-Wilder” posters got treated before it went to complete shit.

Honestly, I don't agree with your assessment that "it went to complete shit". After the disastrous start under Selles, I thought we'd do well to stop up this season, and I strongly suspect that was Wilder's remit when he was brought back - to keep us up, and anything above that would be a bonus.

I think our two differing views are the source of a lot of the tensions between pro- and anti-Wilders - the pro-Wilders are happy with staying up this season and waiting till next season to have a crack at promotion (hopefully!), whilst the anti-Wilders are disappointed and frustrated that we didn't have a crack at promotion this season.

 

[luffenhamblade]

Honestly, I don't agree with your assessment that "it went to complete shit". After the disastrous start under Selles, I thought we'd do well to stop up this season, and I strongly suspect that was Wilder's remit when he was brought back - to keep us up, and anything above that would be a bonus.

I think our two differing views are the source of a lot of the tensions between pro- and anti-Wilders - the pro-Wilders are happy with staying up this season and waiting till next season to have a crack at promotion (hopefully!), whilst the anti-Wilders are disappointed and frustrated that we didn't have a crack at promotion this season.

I have been largely in the pro Wilder camp and felt staying up would be an achievement. However, after getting to a decent level of performance it has been largely downhill for months now and quite frankly awful to watch without any upside. I don’t think we’ll sack him but he really has to get his finger out next season and not just for a few games.

 

[UTB Blade]

There are also a great many who want Wilder out who aren’t on this forum.

I've never argued otherwise.

 

[UTB Blade]

“Pearls before swine”


Bigger Blade alert…….

It isn't a Bigger Blade thing, but yes, I did choose the phrase on purpose because I genuinely believe that the happiest people on the planet, should we get rid of Wilder, will be w*sdayites, which tells me everything I need to know about how disastrous a move getting rid of Wilder would be.

They were the happiest people the last time we got rid of Wilder, and with good reason - remember at the time we sacked Selles we were actually beneath them, which is shocking considering the state they've been in, on and off the pitch, all season. So, yes, I think wanting to get rid of Wilder is pig-like behaviour, for that reason, and I'm not going to say otherwise.

 

[VonBrysonsExpress]

Honestly, I don't agree with your assessment that "it went to complete shit". After the disastrous start under Selles, I thought we'd do well to stop up this season, and I strongly suspect that was Wilder's remit when he was brought back - to keep us up, and anything above that would be a bonus.

I think our two differing views are the source of a lot of the tensions between pro- and anti-Wilders - the pro-Wilders are happy with staying up this season and waiting till next season to have a crack at promotion (hopefully!), whilst the anti-Wilders are disappointed and frustrated that we didn't have a crack at promotion this season.

I'm not anti wilder and I didn't think we had a chance of the playoffs. If wilders only remit was to stay up then great, he's achieved it. I would suggest that he could have gone a bit further within that remit and attempted to make us look a competitive, coherent team and perhaps not spunk money on dire January loans/signings.

There is nothing which suggests a plan, either from wilder, his touchline team not the owners. We desperately require change and whilst wilder remains that's just not happening, hence my personal view wilder has to go.

 

[UTB Blade]

I'm not anti wilder and I didn't think we had a chance of the playoffs. If wilders only remit was to stay up then great, he's achieved it. I would suggest that he could have gone a bit further within that remit and attempted to make us look a competitive, coherent team and perhaps not spunk money on dire January loans/signings.

There is nothing which suggests a plan, either from wilder, his touchline team not the owners. We desperately require change and whilst wilder remains that's just not happening, hence my personal view wilder has to go.

That's a perfectly reasonable view, imo, but do you not think we could achieve the necessary change by bringing in new coaching staff to complement the existing set-up, rather than 'throwing the baby out with the bath water', which is what I think we'll be doing if we get rid of CW?

 

[Nick Jansky]

That's a perfectly reasonable view, imo, but do you not think we could achieve the necessary change by bringing in new coaching staff to complement the existing set-up, rather than 'throwing the baby out with the bath water', which is what I think we'll be doing if we get rid of CW?

Who’s in charge of the coaching staff? Why would you replace them without replacing the manager?

 

[Danetheblade]

Honestly, I don't agree with your assessment that "it went to complete shit". After the disastrous start under Selles, I thought we'd do well to stop up this season, and I strongly suspect that was Wilder's remit when he was brought back - to keep us up, and anything above that would be a bonus.

I think our two differing views are the source of a lot of the tensions between pro- and anti-Wilders - the pro-Wilders are happy with staying up this season and waiting till next season to have a crack at promotion (hopefully!), whilst the anti-Wilders are disappointed and frustrated that we didn't have a crack at promotion this season.

I can’t speak for others that are wilder out, but I’m tired of the circus that surrounds him, I’m tired of the dour football, the “everyone but me” mentality.

The football is dire, the signings are laughably bad, we/he has no scouting ability, we sign players that we’ve been after for years, where’s the gems that teams like Sunderland find? Swansea even.

He were bought in to keep us up, he’s done that granted. But we were within touching distance of the play offs several times, his tactics ensured that didn’t happen.

 

[VonBrysonsExpress]

That's a perfectly reasonable view, imo, but do you not think we could achieve the necessary change by bringing in new coaching staff to complement the existing set-up, rather than 'throwing the baby out with the bath water', which is what I think we'll be doing if we get rid of CW?

I think that could work except we've seen changes in the back room (other than knilly) and it hasn't improved anything. Throwing the dice again is reasonable and seeing if new coaches with new ideas can bring change, I just think the intransigent is wilder, his way or no way.

I think we're at a really important point where next season will define the next 5 years. No one really expects wilder to be here in 2030, at least I hope not. I just feel now is the time to thank him and change direction, likely some pain involved and we'll get it wrong before right but that's us as a club, always had been!

 

[Sean Thornton]

It isn't a Bigger Blade thing, but yes, I did choose the phrase on purpose because I genuinely believe that the happiest people on the planet, should we get rid of Wilder, will be w*sdayites, which tells me everything I need to know about how disastrous a move getting rid of Wilder would be.

They were the happiest people the last time we got rid of Wilder, and with good reason - remember at the time we sacked Selles we were actually beneath them, which is shocking considering the state they've been in, on and off the pitch, all season. So, yes, I think wanting to get rid of Wilder is pig-like behaviour, for that reason, and I'm not going to say otherwise.

Pig like behaviour? Wanting what they feel would be best for United? Give your head a wobble. Pathetic.

 

[LBA_Blade]

I'm not anti wilder and I didn't think we had a chance of the playoffs. If wilders only remit was to stay up then great, he's achieved it. I would suggest that he could have gone a bit further within that remit and attempted to make us look a competitive, coherent team and perhaps not spunk money on dire January loans/signings.

There is nothing which suggests a plan, either from wilder, his touchline team not the owners. We desperately require change and whilst wilder remains that's just not happening, hence my personal view wilder has to go.

With only 5/6 games gone his remit should have been more than just keep us safe. Yes I get a few games to steady the side but after that he should have at least been looking at top half, play offs at least and easy possibility of autos even from that position based on 92

 

[Broomhall Blade]

I take your point, but let me ask you how many pro-Wilder posters you think want to come on this thread and risk abuse from the pack of anti-Wilders on the thread. Anyone coming on this thread to stick up for CW is not so much fighting a losing battle, as clearing up the remaining UXBs from a war that finished eons ago.

Contrary to the impression given by this thread, there are a great many Blades supporting Wilder and wanting him to continue as manager, but they're not on this thread, or probably even on the Blades sections of the forum, very much at the moment, because they know the anti-Wilders' minds are made up, and that if they try and argue in his favour, they just get abuse or ridicule.

It doesn't mean that there aren't a great many of us still supporting Wilder - there are, it's just that a lot of us have realised that trying to defend him on threads like this is casting pearls before swine, so we've decided to spend our time with people who do appreciate Wilder, not waste time on the ones who don't.

That works both ways.
I have long since voiced my concerns with Wilder in fact probably ever since he walked out the back door.
I was probably in the minority early doors when he came back and got shot down by the Wilder fan boys.
Now more and more Blades are waking up to the fact he's a very limited manager, it's now the Wilder fan boys don't feel they can comment on this thread.
I think that band of Blades supporting him is diminishing by the minute.
It looks likely he'll be here next season unless COH suddenly wake up in the next few weeks, but if he doesn't hit the ground running next season I can see it turning very toxic quickly probably alot earlier than the 10 games, till October or Christmas that some are predicting.

 

[VonBrysonsExpress]

With only 5/6 games gone his remit should have been more than just keep us safe. Yes I get a few games to steady the side but after that he should have at least been looking at top half, play offs at least and easy possibility of autos even from that position based on 92

I agree, my next few lines suggest that. To achieve in any workplace the MVP shouldn't be the goal, he could/should have wanted more. The January signings were clearly brought in for us to kick on, the abject failure to do so suggests wilder gambled and failed. I don't want him gambling again next season with our reduced budget

 

[UTB Blade]

Who’s in charge of the coaching staff? Why would you replace them without replacing the manager?

Because I believe that Wilder does more at the club than a modern "first team coach" does. He's a club manager in the traditional, old-fashioned sense. I think that's what a lot of people are unhappy with, hence the clamour for a modern "first team coach" type appointment.

There's nothing wrong with the modern first team coach model, if you do it properly, but I think we tried to do it last year, 'on the cheap' as it were - I'm not necessarily referring to cost, I think we just skimped on the whole thing, and thought we could replace a traditional old-fashioned type manager role, with a first team coach without taking on board all the 'whole club' things that traditional managers do, and modern first team coaches don't.

I think that's one of the reasons the Selles appointment was such a disaster - he only knew how to be a first team coach, and the club needed more than that, because there was a big void when someone who was a traditional old-fashioned type manager left. This is one of the reasons I think getting rid of Wilder now would be sheer folly - the club isn't set up for it.

I've said it before but the club needs to do proper long-term succession planning for when Wilder leaves, at whatever point that is. Just getting rid of him in knee-jerk fashion without proper planning is likely to be a repeat of the Selles fiasco, which is one of the reasons I'm so against it.

 

[LBA_Blade]

Because I believe that Wilder does more at the club than a modern "first team coach" does. He's a club manager in the traditional, old-fashioned sense. I think that's what a lot of people are unhappy with, hence the clamour for a modern "first team coach" type appointment.

There's nothing wrong with the modern first team coach model, if you do it properly, but I think we tried to do it last year, 'on the cheap' as it were - I'm not necessarily referring to cost, I think we just skimped on the whole thing, and thought we could replace a traditional old-fashioned type manager role, with a first team coach without taking on board all the 'whole club' things that traditional managers do, and modern first team coaches don't.

I think that's one of the reasons the Selles appointment was such a disaster - he only knew how to be a first team coach, and the club needed more than that, because there was a big void when someone who was a traditional old-fashioned type manager left. This is one of the reasons I think getting rid of Wilder now would be sheer folly - the club isn't set up for it.

I've said it before but the club needs to do proper long-term succession planning for when Wilder leaves, at whatever point that is. Just getting rid of him in knee-jerk fashion without proper planning is likely to be a repeat of the Selles fiasco, which is one of the reasons I'm so against it.

Without doing any extensive research when did the likes of Brentford and Brighton make the move and was this done over a close season or a long term plan ? Fan base wise we can be bigger than both but they have a model that works better.

 

[Danetheblade]

Without doing any extensive research when did the likes of Brentford and Brighton make the move and was this done over a close season or a long term plan ? Fan base wise we can be bigger than both but they have a model that works better.

Brighton & Hove Albion F.C. didn’t switch to a “director of football” model at one single dramatic moment, but the key turning point came in 2018.





That’s when the club appointed Dan Ashworth as Technical Director. His role effectively formalised a modern sporting structure—overseeing recruitment, analytics, youth development, and long-term squad planning—rather than leaving those responsibilities primarily with the head coach.


Brentford F.C. were actually earlier adopters of a director-of-football–style model than Brighton—and in a more radical way.


Key moment: 2015


The big shift came in 2015, when owner Matthew Benham restructured the club and appointed Rasmus Ankersen as co-director of football (alongside then sporting director Phil Giles).



From ChatGPT.

 

[Silky Sabella]

United were playing great football pre play off final and were the same in the first half of the final, but the owners decided that wilder was no longer the man for the job. So after 40 games in charge this season, why the hell would the owner's want to keep him on after the performances have been so dire, and have got worse with each passing match
Maybe time for Bettis to stop being a wet blanket, grow a pair, and tell the owners that his mate wilder is totally shite !