Wilder-Fear, the weird changes & Square pegs, and what happens next

[Guesty]

I might be a lot things, I may not be as knowledgeable as you are regarding football, but i'm certainly not a 'knownowt'.

Starting with the WBA game, in the last 9 games of the season, the start of the sharp end, we've scored 11 goals, Leeds have 14, Norwich have scored 23. We've conceded 4 goals, Leeds 5 and Norwich 8 goals. We have won 17 points, Leeds have won 18 points and Norwich have won 25 points out of 27. And i'll have a wild guess that that pattern continues for the next 4 games. But not to worry, as Norwich & Leeds celebrate promotion, we can take comfort in the low number of high quality chances we made during the last 1/3 of the season.

Or make a graph showing where we finished compared with our budget. That's the real quiz! That's the real quiz!

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Or make a graph showing where we finished compared with our budget. That's the real quiz! That's the real quiz!

So having got ourselves to a position of potential success, our subsequent drift is ok, 'cos we ain't got much moneh? Identify you place in the pecking order and except it. An attitude that basically sums up the city, the club & its supporters.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Nobody is attacking that style of play.

People WANT us to start playing like that again. We aren’t doing and haven’t since the Villa game.

We have been cautious and edgy since - not our usual gung-ho, go for it approach that you speak of. That’s what people want.

The post I replied to was directly attacking the style of play.

 

[Guesty]

So having got ourselves to a position of potential success, our subsequent drift is ok, 'cos we ain't got much moneh? Identify you place in the pecking order and except it. An attitude that basically sums up the city, the club & its supporters.

I can't tell from your reply, but that's the exact attitude I'm satirising there.

No-one quotes David Brent in an attempt to actually prove a point.

 

[AWetFlannel]

I might be a lot things, I may not be as knowledgeable as you are regarding football, but i'm certainly not a 'knownowt'.

Starting with the WBA game, in the last 9 games of the season, the start of the sharp end, we've scored 11 goals, Leeds have 14, Norwich have scored 23. We've conceded 4 goals, Leeds 5 and Norwich 8 goals. We have won 17 points, Leeds have won 18 points and Norwich have won 25 points out of 27. And i'll have a wild guess that that pattern continues for the next 4 games. But not to worry, as Norwich & Leeds celebrate promotion, we can take comfort in the low number of high quality chances we made during the last 1/3 of the season.

It's easy to quote our recent results and pretend that's what you were saying. You criticised our style of play, which hasn't changed since we got into the Championship.

By praising Leeds slinging into the box early and shooting at every opportunity, I assume that when you watch them play, you 'feel' they are going to score. When you watch us keep the ball in the opposition 3rd and wait for high quality situations, you 'feel' like we won't score. That feeling you have isn't backed up by the stats, it's just a misunderstanding of how modern football works. Never mind who's in the box, if you are balanced, if you are on your stronger foot, if it's likely to get blocked, if you're 30+ yards out etc. just shoot/cross anyway.

Watch Man City or Barcelona, most goals are 2 yard tap ins. That's what we try to do.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

I can't tell from your reply, but that's the exact attitude I'm satirising there.

No-one quotes David Brent in an attempt to actually prove a point.

Fuck knows who you're quoting and it what context. I'm not really bothered tbh.

There's plenty on here that hold that view, and a good number of the same people argued that budgets were irrelevant when we were arsing about in League 1 with one of, if not the biggest.

 

[Guesty]

Fuck knows who you're quoting and it what context. I'm not really bothered tbh.

There's plenty on here that hold that view, and a good number of the same people argued that budgets were irrelevant when we were arsing about in League 1 with one of, if not the biggest.

Yes I know, that's what I'm saying. Sorry you missed it.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Indirectly the Villa game probably will cost us, and I don't just mean the two points.
The difference in our style of play can be traced all the way back to the last eight minutes of that game, we haven't been or looked convincing since because we haven't tried to be.

We tried to defend a 3-0 lead with eight minutes to go and we failed

We then decided that the best way to ensure we don't concede too many goals like that again is to play all our games more defensively.

Here's a newsflash WE CAN'T DEFEND
We never have been able to defend.

The fact has just been masked by us constantly being on the front foot and playing the game in the opponents half.
The last 10 minutes at Villa has changed everything about us, so yes that night at Villa will probably be the result that kills us. And in true United fashion it'll probably be at the hands of Aston Villa

I agree that our style of play has changed since the Villa game (negatively), however you are talking nonsense about not being able to defend. We have kept clean sheets in 43% of our games this season, joint highest with Boro who are known as the best defensive side in the league.

I'll grant you that we always look dodgy at the back and likely to concede, but this goes back to when I first started watching us and I don't think it ever has or ever will change.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

It's easy to quote our recent results and pretend that's what you were saying. You criticised our style of play, which hasn't changed since we got into the Championship.

By praising Leeds slinging into the box early and shooting at every opportunity, I assume that when you watch them play, you 'feel' they are going to score. When you watch us keep the ball in the opposition 3rd and wait for high quality situations, you 'feel' like we won't score. That feeling you have isn't backed up by the stats, it's just a misunderstanding of how modern football works. Never mind who's in the box, if you are balanced, if you are on your stronger foot, if it's likely to get blocked, if you're 30+ yards out etc. just shoot/cross anyway.

Watch Man City or Barcelona, most goals are 2 yard tap ins. That's what we try to do.

I don't need to pretend about anything. I have often said that we've over played it this season and last. I would like the ball put into the box earlier and with more conviction. I would like more people to commit to be being in the box. These aren't footballing thought crimes.

To my limited world view you play a system that best suits the players at your disposal and increases the chances of success. Barca & City have blank cheques to write and can pick up any player they want in the world.

When we are on the button, eg. v Villa at home it's great, more often than not recently it's being turgid. Yesterday was a good example. We had a 10 minute spell in the 2nd half when we did the good things well, other than that.....How did Millwall undo us? They put balls into the danger area and won the 2nd ball, squeezed us 10 yrds back. How did Bristol City undo us the previous home game? Same thing. When McG plays we rarely have both strikers in the box at anyone time and we don't commit MF's in a Lampardesque manner. It's prohibitive. Everything has to be eye of the needle.

I think we're joint 4th or 5th leading scorers in the division, with teams like Hull close behind, it's not as if our style of football is responsible for a massive number of goals. 15 goals behind Norwich, 12 behind WBA, 8 behind Villa, 3 ahead of Brentford and 12 ahead of Blackburn. Teams lay out two banks of 4 and stifle us and we are forced to play the ball about in front of them. That's the reason why we brought Madine in to vary things. We'd be just as well playing 4-4-2 or 4-3-3.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Yes I know, that's what I'm saying. Sorry you missed it.

Apologies, i'm like a bear with a sore head. I'm hungover & grumpy this morning.

 

[Guesty]

Apologies, i'm like a bear with a sore head. I'm hungover & grumpy this morning.

Ha no worries, I'm the same. Well, not hungover but so deflated I may as well be.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Barca and City have a style in mind and buy players to suit it. Wilder came in and picked our style of play based on our players. Billy better upfront in a 2, Basham perfect for RCB in a back 3, O'Connel perfect for LCB, Freeman a better RWB than RB etc. It's exactly what we have done.

Then in repsonse to comparing us to other teams, Villa have scored more than us because they have Grealish, Abraham, Kodja that are worth 10's of millions. Their back up strikers go out on loan to us. Our back up strikers go to league 1 or on the bench at Wigan. How have we managed to compete with teams that have better players and have spent more than double what we have? The system you so despise.

What we have achieved is wasted on many who, unfortunately, would genuinely be happier watching Cardiff or Burnley because they play direct football. I suppose it's all abart opinions and each to their own, but don't call the miracle that Wilder has created a chuckle brothers routine because you don't understand it.

 

[Snowman]

Last night I was trying to come to terms with what the fuck actually happened yesterday. It was all too obvious what was happening on the pitch as we played poorly for the first half, stepped it up second and our goal was deserved as it had been coming. On the same token, if we’d managed to get away with a 1-0 win, even before Egan’s red and the penalty, it would’ve been a good result. Job done. It didn’t go like that.

We’re not a team of bottle jobs, but we did bottle it yesterday.

Wilder Fear?
Its not something consistent, just an observation on a couple of occasions, so please be aware that I know that there have been games like Preston, like Leeds, like Birmingham, where he hasn’t been as Cautious, but there have been elements of caution which is unusual. But I think Wilder has shown signs of fear in his own approach.

Our approach v Wednesday and second half yesterday were not usual. Against Wednesday we played with a cautious ‘don’t lose’ mentality. Yesterday, moves made by Wilder meant that despite what he said post-match, he was setting us up to defend a lead, not extend it.

There is an argument that there is a maturity in his approach, Fulham last season, Villa away (and home to an extent) and Bristol City had all shown that there is a weakness in us, but I think that the positive front foot mentality which we all love in Wilder and his approach is what’s got us to 2nd in the league.

Weird Changes & Square Pegs
Many have mentioned it, but it wasn’t so much the changes made, it was the slight unpredictability of what those changes brought, which for me only causes confusion. There were simple changes with all three departing players having a readymade replacement on the bench. But Wilder didn’t take this approach and I have to say that he went negative in all but the Bash/ Madine change.

Basham for Madine (not straight swap for Cranie)
Billy for Cranie (not straight swap for Hogan)
Duffy for Coutts (not straight swap for Dowell or even Hogan on and McG slot in behind the front two)

The big game changer was Billy going off, not that Cranie was poor, but that it affected the way things were up front. Cranie or Stearman could’ve replaced Duffy.

Coutts wasn’t a wrong move so much, but the wrong move at that time. Coutts is at his best when he is able to retain possession, he’s not the right man to come on, chasing the ball to win it back. We needed an enforcer.

I think these changes contributed to the end result.

What happens next?
Who knows results wise, we still have 12 points up for grabs. There is no time to hang on for draws, we have to remove the shackles again and go for it. Pressure should be off now so rather than being shell-shocked and setting up/ playing with fear, we need to go for it.

No idea on the extent of Bash and Billy’s injuries, but assume that neither will feature v Forest.

Bash and Egan’s replacements are straight swaps, I think Baldock comes back in and I think Madine and Hogan have to start up top as they will give a really different threat.

McG hasn’t done anything wrong and he is clearly bang in form, I just don’t think he offers the physicality for Forest, so I’d drop him in behind.

Duffy, again hasn’t done anything wrong, but I think McG offers more right now. I also think Duffy brings us an impact from the bench

Hendo
Cranie Stearman JOC
Baldock Norwood Stevens
Fleck
McG
Madine Hogan​

We have to go for it!

Substitutions

 

[Foody]

Let's not get too carried away here, I agree we've dropped back in terms of dominance of late, but looking at shots is massively over simplifying. Over the course of the season Leeds have had 654 shots to out 521, these additional 133 shots have lead to Leeds scoring exactly 0 additional goals. This has nothing to do with luck, it's about the quality of chance the two sides do and don't shoot from.

We need to get out confidence back to keep it in the final third, patiently waiting to create high quality chances. Our intricate style has got us where we are, looking purely at shots is a mugs game. If it had any bearing Brentford would be second and Rotherham would be above us!

 

[Broomhall Blade]

Last night I was trying to come to terms with what the fuck actually happened yesterday. It was all too obvious what was happening on the pitch as we played poorly for the first half, stepped it up second and our goal was deserved as it had been coming. On the same token, if we’d managed to get away with a 1-0 win, even before Egan’s red and the penalty, it would’ve been a good result. Job done. It didn’t go like that.

We’re not a team of bottle jobs, but we did bottle it yesterday.

Wilder Fear?
Its not something consistent, just an observation on a couple of occasions, so please be aware that I know that there have been games like Preston, like Leeds, like Birmingham, where he hasn’t been as Cautious, but there have been elements of caution which is unusual. But I think Wilder has shown signs of fear in his own approach.

Our approach v Wednesday and second half yesterday were not usual. Against Wednesday we played with a cautious ‘don’t lose’ mentality. Yesterday, moves made by Wilder meant that despite what he said post-match, he was setting us up to defend a lead, not extend it.

There is an argument that there is a maturity in his approach, Fulham last season, Villa away (and home to an extent) and Bristol City had all shown that there is a weakness in us, but I think that the positive front foot mentality which we all love in Wilder and his approach is what’s got us to 2nd in the league.

Weird Changes & Square Pegs
Many have mentioned it, but it wasn’t so much the changes made, it was the slight unpredictability of what those changes brought, which for me only causes confusion. There were simple changes with all three departing players having a readymade replacement on the bench. But Wilder didn’t take this approach and I have to say that he went negative in all but the Bash/ Madine change.

Basham for Madine (not straight swap for Cranie)
Billy for Cranie (not straight swap for Hogan)
Duffy for Coutts (not straight swap for Dowell or even Hogan on and McG slot in behind the front two)

The big game changer was Billy going off, not that Cranie was poor, but that it affected the way things were up front. Cranie or Stearman could’ve replaced Duffy.

Coutts wasn’t a wrong move so much, but the wrong move at that time. Coutts is at his best when he is able to retain possession, he’s not the right man to come on, chasing the ball to win it back. We needed an enforcer.

I think these changes contributed to the end result.

What happens next?
Who knows results wise, we still have 12 points up for grabs. There is no time to hang on for draws, we have to remove the shackles again and go for it. Pressure should be off now so rather than being shell-shocked and setting up/ playing with fear, we need to go for it.

No idea on the extent of Bash and Billy’s injuries, but assume that neither will feature v Forest.

Bash and Egan’s replacements are straight swaps, I think Baldock comes back in and I think Madine and Hogan have to start up top as they will give a really different threat.

McG hasn’t done anything wrong and he is clearly bang in form, I just don’t think he offers the physicality for Forest, so I’d drop him in behind.

Duffy, again hasn’t done anything wrong, but I think McG offers more right now. I also think Duffy brings us an impact from the bench

Hendo
Cranie Stearman JOC
Baldock Norwood Stevens
Fleck
McG
Madine Hogan​

We have to go for it!

I get the Madine for Basham it was positive, but can't understand the other two substitutions. I would have gone Hogan for Sharp and Dowell for Duffy. They were chasing the game throwing players on up front and leaving gaps at the back we should have gone and finished them off.
It's the one thing that bugs me about Wilder his substitutions. And I think its the reason we have hardly scored any late goals that get us something out of games.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Barca and City have a style in mind and buy players to suit it. Wilder came in and picked our style of play based on our players. Billy better upfront in a 2, Basham perfect for RCB in a back 3, O'Connel perfect for LCB, Freeman a better RWB than RB etc. It's exactly what we have done.

Then in repsonse to comparing us to other teams, Villa have scored more than us because they have Grealish, Abraham, Kodja that are worth 10's of millions. Their back up strikers go out on loan to us. Our back up strikers go to league 1 or on the bench at Wigan. How have we managed to compete with teams that have better players and have spent more than double what we have? The system you so despise.

What we have achieved is wasted on many who, unfortunately, would genuinely be happier watching Cardiff or Burnley because they play direct football. I suppose it's all abart opinions and each to their own, but don't call the miracle that Wilder has created a chuckle brothers routine because you don't understand it.

I don't know whether CW had a system in mind and brought the players in to fit, but he brought in 90% of the promotion winning squad in the 2016 pre-season. In real terms, what we have achieved is promotion to a league that should be our worst case scenario as a club of our size & stature. What we have achieved is a fade away last season through bad luck, lack of investment and poor player selection. And what we have achieved this year appears to be a fade away for reasons yet to be known. Warnock & Basset get pelters and achieved far more. What we have also achieved is a team that is top heavy and over reliant on 30+ year old players and loanees. I've flagged the issue previously, and someone else has mentioned Reading's historical woes, but if we don't go up this season, next season doesn't look too bright & shiny from where i'm sitting.

I think I have just enough grey matter to comprehend the miracle of chris wilder, and I am extremely grateful for what he has done. My gratefulness doesn't stop me being critical if I think it's warranted. I wouldn't want to go and watch either Cardiff or Burnley, as a.) they don't play a style of football that i like and b.) i'm a time served Sheffield United fan, and have watched some absolute abject performances in my time & still come back for more.

Let's not down play either quality of our squad or strikers this season. We have had the tools for the job, far more than we had last season. Our squad now consists of a decent number of internationals at full & u21 level, some of whom will be playing in the premiership next season.

We currently have a strike force that is the envy of 90% of the teams in the league. We have the best part of £20m worth of strikers sat on the bench every game. Clarke although not everyone's cup of tea, has still scored 23 in 76 championship games. He was deemed surplus to requirements. Ched has scored 16 in 36 in League 1 on loan. He'd be on the bench of at least 50% of the championship clubs this season.

The 'system i so despise'? You're way off beam. There seems to be a danger of turning this into a binary issue, wrapped up in a McCarthyesque witch hunt; you are either a total blind devotee of what we do & revere CW as a deity or you are a long ball, up & at 'em, the ball shouldn't be on the floor, closet Wednesday supporting, fuck off to a.n other ground, you don't deserve Chrissy, luddite. It's nuanced and it's shades of grey and there is plenty of space in between the two positions to hold valid viewpoints. It's worth noting that if either Clough or Adkins was presiding over our current arse about, they'd be catching a hell of a lot more stick than CW is currently doing.

There is nothing effective or clever about a player when in a crossing position with players in the box, cuts back to a player down the line who then gets into a crossing position, who then cuts back, etc. Or when a player makes a decoy run and the same thing transpires or when you pull a forward out of the box to do the same. No matter how you dress it up with stats or claims or creating quality chances, you are wasting the moment. If there is an issue about goals scored from crosses, i suggest it better to improve the quality of the crossing in training and not shy away from crossing it. As I mentioned when it clicked against Villa at home it was exquisite for 45 mins, when it doesn't click it's laboured.

 

[Topplayersleave]

I agree that our style of play has changed since the Villa game (negatively), however you are talking nonsense about not being able to defend. We have kept clean sheets in 43% of our games this season, joint highest with Boro who are known as the best defensive side in the league.

I'll grant you that we always look dodgy at the back and likely to concede, but this goes back to when I first started watching us and I don't think it ever has or ever will change.

Yes, our style of play helps the defence.
But when actually defending you can never feel confident in them

 

[Foody]

I don't know whether CW had a system in mind and brought the players in to fit, but he brought in 90% of the promotion winning squad in the 2016 pre-season. In real terms, what we have achieved is promotion to a league that should be our worst case scenario as a club of our size & stature. What we have achieved is a fade away last season through bad luck, lack of investment and poor player selection. And what we have achieved this year appears to be a fade away for reasons yet to be known. Warnock & Basset get pelters and achieved far more. What we have also achieved is a team that is top heavy and over reliant on 30+ year old players and loanees. I've flagged the issue previously, and someone else has mentioned Reading's historical woes, but if we don't go up this season, next season doesn't look too bright & shiny from where i'm sitting.

I think I have just enough grey matter to comprehend the miracle of chris wilder, and I am extremely grateful for what he has done. My gratefulness doesn't stop me being critical if I think it's warranted. I wouldn't want to go and watch either Cardiff or Burnley, as a.) they don't play a style of football that i like and b.) i'm a time served Sheffield United fan, and have watched some absolute abject performances in my time & still come back for more.

Let's not down play either quality of our squad or strikers this season. We have had the tools for the job, far more than we had last season. Our squad now consists of a decent number of internationals at full & u21 level, some of whom will be playing in the premiership next season.

We currently have a strike force that is the envy of 90% of the teams in the league. We have the best part of £20m worth of strikers sat on the bench every game. Clarke although not everyone's cup of tea, has still scored 23 in 76 championship games. He was deemed surplus to requirements. Ched has scored 16 in 36 in League 1 on loan. He'd be on the bench of at least 50% of the championship clubs this season.

The 'system i so despise'? You're way off beam. There seems to be a danger of turning this into a binary issue, wrapped up in a McCarthyesque witch hunt; you are either a total blind devotee of what we do & revere CW as a deity or you are a long ball, up & at 'em, the ball shouldn't be on the floor, closet Wednesday supporting, fuck off to a.n other ground, you don't deserve Chrissy, luddite. It's nuanced and it's shades of grey and there is plenty of space in between the two positions to hold valid viewpoints. It's worth noting that if either Clough or Adkins was presiding over our current arse about, they'd be catching a hell of a lot more stick than CW is currently doing.

There is nothing effective or clever about a player when in a crossing position with players in the box, cuts back to a player down the line who then gets into a crossing position, who then cuts back, etc. Or when a player makes a decoy run and the same thing transpires or when you pull a forward out of the box to do the same. No matter how you dress it up with stats or claims or creating quality chances, you are wasting the moment. If there is an issue about goals scored from crosses, i suggest it better to improve the quality of the crossing in training and not shy away from crossing it. As I mentioned when it clicked against Villa at home it was exquisite for 45 mins, when it doesn't click it's laboured.

It's not about dressing it up with stats, and as for 'quality chances', the facts speak for themselves. We are 3rd in the league and have a better goal difference than the team in second. In terms of chances most people accept that XG largely reflects the creativity of a team, most XG tables have had us 2nd all season (albeit with a drop of lately). None of this suggest a team need to adapt their style, what we were doing was working brilliantly, we've just been more cautious of late.

If you look at all the successful teams in this league (and most of major leagues) very few of them rely on early balls in. The reason is simple, that style flatters to deceive. We may watch games and feel we're creating loads of chances, but the chances are ones that are unlikely to create goals.

As for the Warnock v Wilder comparison, can't help but feel you're ignoring some massive factors. I.e. the length of time Warnock had to build a competitive squad, the relative funds and the lack of foreign invested competitors. It was a different time, a different league and different manager. I'm not saying better or worse; but what I will say is: if Wilder takes this team up, it is a far more impressive feat than Warnock's promotion. For the record I'm a big Warnock fan, I always defend him on here; he made my childhood years as a blade exciting. That doesn't mean what Wilder and the team are doing now isn't bloody impressive though.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

It's not about dressing it up with stats, and as for 'quality chances', the facts speak for themselves. We are 3rd in the league and have a better goal difference than the team in second. In terms of chances most people accept that XG largely reflects the creativity of a team, most XG tables have had us 2nd all season (albeit with a drop of lately). None of this suggest a team need to adapt their style, what we were doing was working brilliantly, we've just been more cautious of late.

If you look at all the successful teams in this league (and most of major leagues) very few of them rely on early balls in. The reason is simple, that style flatters to deceive. We may watch games and feel we're creating loads of chances, but the chances are ones that are unlikely to create goals.

As for the Warnock v Wilder comparison, can't help but feel you're ignoring some massive factors. I.e. the length of time Warnock had to build a competitive squad, the relative funds and the lack of foreign invested competitors. It was a different time, a different league and different manager. I'm not saying better or worse; but what I will say is: if Wilder takes this team up, it is a far more impressive feat than Warnock's promotion. For the record I'm a big Warnock fan, I always defend him on here; he made my childhood years as a blade exciting. That doesn't mean what Wilder and the team are doing now isn't bloody impressive though.

Good post.

 

[Foody]

Good post.

Cheers, I will admit to being a bit of a stats geek though. I Entirely blame blades analytic for this. I just think as fans we question everything after a defeat and think we need a total revolution. Sadly I think the players have questioned themselves and the style a bit too the last few games. If we can get back to our free flowing overlapping selves, we'll give Leeds something to worry about.

 

[Selly]

It's not about dressing it up with stats, and as for 'quality chances', the facts speak for themselves. We are 3rd in the league and have a better goal difference than the team in second. In terms of chances most people accept that XG largely reflects the creativity of a team, most XG tables have had us 2nd all season (albeit with a drop of lately). None of this suggest a team need to adapt their style, what we were doing was working brilliantly, we've just been more cautious of late.

If you look at all the successful teams in this league (and most of major leagues) very few of them rely on early balls in. The reason is simple, that style flatters to deceive. We may watch games and feel we're creating loads of chances, but the chances are ones that are unlikely to create goals.

As for the Warnock v Wilder comparison, can't help but feel you're ignoring some massive factors. I.e. the length of time Warnock had to build a competitive squad, the relative funds and the lack of foreign invested competitors. It was a different time, a different league and different manager. I'm not saying better or worse; but what I will say is: if Wilder takes this team up, it is a far more impressive feat than Warnock's promotion. For the record I'm a big Warnock fan, I always defend him on here; he made my childhood years as a blade exciting. That doesn't mean what Wilder and the team are doing now isn't bloody impressive though.

On the point about early balls (stop sniggering at the back), it isn't so much that we don't do it every time, it's that we don't do it AT ALL.

This means the defence know they don't have to press the man who has just received the ball, or commit to anything other than keeping him where he is, if he isn't alreadyalrea them as he's inevitably going to come back inside. It means we are predictable.

Contrast that with the chances Millwall created yesterday. We allowed them to have the ball out wide, in ACRES of space, and still weren't prepared for the ball when it came in.

Playing one way leads to only one thing. A defence becoming very settled. Mix it up and they can't get settled as they don't know what you are going to do. It's one of the reasons Enda was one of the few effective people yesterday, he wasn't staying private. I nearly fell off my seat when he turned up at inside right, but it led to us having a chance.

 

[AWetFlannel]

I don't know whether CW had a system in mind and brought the players in to fit, but he brought in 90% of the promotion winning squad in the 2016 pre-season. In real terms, what we have achieved is promotion to a league that should be our worst case scenario as a club of our size & stature. What we have achieved is a fade away last season through bad luck, lack of investment and poor player selection. And what we have achieved this year appears to be a fade away for reasons yet to be known. Warnock & Basset get pelters and achieved far more. What we have also achieved is a team that is top heavy and over reliant on 30+ year old players and loanees. I've flagged the issue previously, and someone else has mentioned Reading's historical woes, but if we don't go up this season, next season doesn't look too bright & shiny from where i'm sitting.

I think I have just enough grey matter to comprehend the miracle of chris wilder, and I am extremely grateful for what he has done. My gratefulness doesn't stop me being critical if I think it's warranted. I wouldn't want to go and watch either Cardiff or Burnley, as a.) they don't play a style of football that i like and b.) i'm a time served Sheffield United fan, and have watched some absolute abject performances in my time & still come back for more.

Let's not down play either quality of our squad or strikers this season. We have had the tools for the job, far more than we had last season. Our squad now consists of a decent number of internationals at full & u21 level, some of whom will be playing in the premiership next season.

We currently have a strike force that is the envy of 90% of the teams in the league. We have the best part of £20m worth of strikers sat on the bench every game. Clarke although not everyone's cup of tea, has still scored 23 in 76 championship games. He was deemed surplus to requirements. Ched has scored 16 in 36 in League 1 on loan. He'd be on the bench of at least 50% of the championship clubs this season.

The 'system i so despise'? You're way off beam. There seems to be a danger of turning this into a binary issue, wrapped up in a McCarthyesque witch hunt; you are either a total blind devotee of what we do & revere CW as a deity or you are a long ball, up & at 'em, the ball shouldn't be on the floor, closet Wednesday supporting, fuck off to a.n other ground, you don't deserve Chrissy, luddite. It's nuanced and it's shades of grey and there is plenty of space in between the two positions to hold valid viewpoints. It's worth noting that if either Clough or Adkins was presiding over our current arse about, they'd be catching a hell of a lot more stick than CW is currently doing.

There is nothing effective or clever about a player when in a crossing position with players in the box, cuts back to a player down the line who then gets into a crossing position, who then cuts back, etc. Or when a player makes a decoy run and the same thing transpires or when you pull a forward out of the box to do the same. No matter how you dress it up with stats or claims or creating quality chances, you are wasting the moment. If there is an issue about goals scored from crosses, i suggest it better to improve the quality of the crossing in training and not shy away from crossing it. As I mentioned when it clicked against Villa at home it was exquisite for 45 mins, when it doesn't click it's laboured.

'You are wasting the moment'

You are giving the moment away to try and make a better moment. If you are on your weaker foot, you're unlikely to put a great ball in. If your strikers aren't making runs, they are unlikely to win a header.

You don't consider any of this. You just watch the ball and decide it is a perfect opportunity regardless of all the factors that contribute.

If you don't get it, you don't get it.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

'You are wasting the moment'

You are giving the moment away to try and make a better moment. If you are on your weaker foot, you're unlikely to put a great ball in. If your strikers aren't making runs, they are unlikely to win a header.

You don't consider any of this. You just watch the ball and decide it is a perfect opportunity regardless of all the factors that contribute.

If you don't get it, you don't get it.

You're just inventing situations. How often do we play players into crossing positions on their wrong foot? We don't invert either the centre backs or wing backs, that's why CB plays left footers on the left side & right footers on the right side.That's why, when they overlap, they are overlapping on their strongest side.

I'll describe a situation, one that occurs at least 3 or 4 times a match. A right footed player (usually RWB) gets played in down the right hand side of the pitch, running towards the byline, is ahead of the the opposition LFB and doesn't cross and cuts back onto his weaker foot, when there is a visible corridor of space in which to play it into, between the GK and the CB's coming back, facing their own goal, a situation which they are not happy being in. The ball gets played back to Basham, then square to Norwood, then square to Fleck, then to the left hand sided WB. By this time the player is met with two banks of four. And the opposition is set centrally with their CB's picking up whoever is in the box, either with their backs to goal or on the half turn. Where they are happiest. He/we haven't created a better opportunity, we have wasted one. To claim other wise is a fallacy. Barca play a totally different way. They probe at pace, and try and get runners in between the CB & FB's and FB's and byline.

 

[Hague Blade]

As for the Warnock v Wilder comparison, can't help but feel you're ignoring some massive factors. I.e. the length of time Warnock had to build a competitive squad, the relative funds and the lack of foreign invested competitors. It was a different time, a different league and different manager. I'm not saying better or worse; but what I will say is: if Wilder takes this team up, it is a far more impressive feat than Warnock's promotion. For the record I'm a big Warnock fan, I always defend him on here; he made my childhood years as a blade exciting. That doesn't mean what Wilder and the team are doing now isn't bloody impressive though.

Agree with that. But at the moment that looks like a big “if”.

 

[AWetFlannel]

You're just inventing situations. How often do we play players into crossing positions on their wrong foot? We don't invert either the centre backs or wing backs, that's why CB plays left footers on the left side & right footers on the right side.That's why, when they overlap, they are overlapping on their strongest side.

I'll describe a situation, one that occurs at least 3 or 4 times a match. A right footed player (usually RWB) gets played in down the right hand side of the pitch, running towards the byline, is ahead of the the opposition LFB and doesn't cross and cuts back onto his weaker foot, when there is a visible corridor of space in which to play it into, between the GK and the CB's coming back, facing their own goal, a situation which they are not happy being in. The ball gets played back to Basham, then square to Norwood, then square to Fleck, then to the left hand sided WB. By this time the player is met with two banks of four. And the opposition is set centrally with their CB's picking up whoever is in the box, either with their backs to goal or on the half turn. Where they are happiest. He/we haven't created a better opportunity, we have wasted one. To claim other wise is a fallacy. Barca play a totally different way. They probe at pace, and try and get runners in between the CB & FB's and FB's and byline.

We never invert the CB's or WB's, but obiously many times in a game a player is put in a position in which they could cross on their weaker foot. Cba getting screenshots to prove there are 10 a game, it's just obvious.

In your situation that occurs many times a game, you haven't considers who's in the box, what runs they're making, which defenders are in the box and 100 other factors.

Baldock isn't a great crosser of the ball, Norwood is. If you can work it back to him in a good position, it's a better opportunity. That justifies Baldock going back. Getting in behind teams like City do creates far better chances. It's what we try to do, rather than just crossing. We probably get it wrong a lot, but what we try and succeed doing most of the time works. As is proved by our league position.

 

[Rufus Smalls]

Whilst I feel the same mate, if we truly thrive on that underdog mentality, then GAME ON!

Know what you mean Koz with the underdog mentality but we need to change the club culture to a mentality of thriving whilst we are favourites.

Let’s be the underdog in the Premiership !!

UTB.

 

[Bergen Blade]

My thoughts on the substitutions:

I think Madine was pretty close to starting yesterday. As we lacked tempo and penetration in the first 20 minutes I don't think it was that surprising that we put him on and changed to a diamond formation. Millwall were defending in numbers and also had a couple of breaks. Having Basham in the side has enabled us to switch formations loads of times, but when he had to come off, Wilder had to decide at that moment if a diamond switch would be good for us.

In doing so he kept both the in-form McGoldrick and our usually creative force Duffy, while having the added aerial threat of Madine alongside top scorer Sharp. This was Wilder really going for it - a very attacking line up designed to be even better equipped at breaking down the defensive opposition, while also matching them a bit better in midfield in terms of numbers. Early on, we had two far post crosses towards their right centre back McLoughlin (normally a right back) and Wilder may have thought Madine could cause him problems in the air.

We didn't improve as much as hoped, but we finished the half pretty well and the start of the second half was better and we got ahead. Surely some praise for Wilder's decision was due?

We kept pushing forward, but Millwall also started to go forward more and we did look uncomfortable as they broke a couple of times and won some set pieces. They made an attacking sub, changed formation and we found ourselves with a gung ho team that looked vulnerable as the game looked wide open. Then Sharp had to be taken off and it wasn't surprising that we made another tweak, putting on the steady Cranie and returning to a 3-5-2 formation. Sensible, really.

Millwall made another attacking sub and our players became reluctant to attack. This meant we started passing it around for the sake of it, until they intercepted, broke and caused havoc. It looked like we were panicking and needed someone to calm things down. So Wilder put Coutts on for Duffy in attempt to steady things, let Coutts playmake and allow us to gradually regain control of the match. That was the aim, I didn't see it as a negative move - Coutts is not great defensively. Sadly we couldn't do it. You could tell that we weren't very interested in taking chances offensively. At that stage we could have done with Hogan's pace, but we were out of substitutes, and besides he's not been good in similar situations before. They went very direct and we struggled to keep them out and to deal with their aerial strength. I felt we had boys marking grown men and wanted us to press them and avoid getting too deep, but the players just couldn't do it.

 

[super_pig]

if Leeds lose one or draw 2 we’re right back with them (i didn’t say in it, we’re already in it) possible? of course it is.. everyone is assuming Leeds will win every game .. interestingly my mate who is a Leeds fan tells me they ( not the keyboard warriors on here) are terrified we will do the same