Why is it always "Sack the Manager?"

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Bladesway

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Why is sacking the manager every time something goes wrong the answer? Football fans really can be a ridiculous bunch sometimes. I witnessed an awful game yesterday and I was gutted, felt sold short, felt that we should be so much better than we are, and felt ashamed I had brought my boy to witness such mediocrity, but I don't just turn to the Manager as the culpable one. I can't be the only one who doesn't react like this.

You have good form and he is a hero (nominated for Manager of the Month last month), wins away at the League leaders easily, then three weeks later people want his head on a spike.

Look at the last 2 managers who got us to the Premiership (DIvision 1). 1 took us down before he got us promoted and the other one had the best part of 8 years at it. Bassett handed his notice to the board following relegation to the third division and they decided not to accept it. Can't see that happening following a relegation in this day and age can you? Warnock got various goes at promotion before he finally got it right.

What I would say is in the first case, had it been this day and age with social media and forums Dave Bassett would never have had the opportunity to do what he did. I don't for the life of me know why McCabe gave Warnock another shot at promotion but he did and look what happened.

I think that team I saw yesterday is labouring in part under a weight of expectation at home, playing on a surface that I wouldn't have been keen on as a Sunday League player and also having issues gelling as a unit. We didn't get the players we wanted when we wanted them in August so we are paying the price now. You can blame Clough for all or some of that but the ridiculous thing is, had Turner not had a mare we could have won that game and we would have bimbled on regardless. These fine lines are what keeps a guy in a job or gets him sacked.

What am I saying? Right now is not the time to throw everything out and wholesale change the manager and his backroom staff. Certainly they should be criticised and I hope people from the board are talking to NC and saying you need to sort this out. But some of the Clough must go rubbish and speculation based on what people heard from Derby fans previously (who are probably as fickle as we are) really isn't the reason to just bin the bloke off and start again. I hear some of the names bandied about and some people must be labouring under the misapprehension that we are still a big club. We are not so all that would happen is another Danny Wilson type will come in, things will look up for a period of time before ultimately going down the pan, us paying another manager off and starting all over again.

While he has to get things right Clough has us in TWO cup semi finals in the past 12 months. We are a third division club so I would suggest he has the ability to do something right. Tactically he must be able to achieve something with his teams to beat Premiership and Championship opposition with such apparent ease. We took Spurs to within 5 minutes of extra time in a semi final only a few weeks ago. Yet a few weeks later people want the bloke sacked?

Stay calm, steer the course and lets get the fuck on with the rest of the season. If we get promoted then we have achieved what we set out to do. If we don't then questions can and should be asked then. Not before.
 



I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that you can't say "drop the manager" after a run of bad form.

On the flip side of this, do you ever hear supporters call for players to be sold after a run of a few bad games despite having been player of the month in the not so distant past? No, because they can be dropped to the bench and a different option brought in.

Maybe that's the solution.

Bring in a good attacking manager for the 80% of league games, let Clough set us up against the better teams in the division and he can have the cups and playoffs too.

I'm a fucking genius.
 
Agreed BW if it is not NC, it is McCabe, and yesterday Doyle came in for unfair criticism.

On Tuesday we conceded two late goals. It is football, not good - but Derby did the same thing yesterday it happens.

You have to take the rough with the smooth, and stop always looking for someone to blame.

HH
 
I'm a fucking genius.

2udxh0w.jpg
 
Somebody's upset they didn't come up with the game-changing two manager concept!
 
To be fair, I'm just happy to have an hour on the PC at the weekend while the kids are at a party. Nothing is likely to piss me off until their return.

Meanwhile I've got a 15 week old who has a blocked nose and won't go down for a kip. And the wife has gone shopping.

I'm ready to explode at someone.
 
Meanwhile I've got a 15 week old who has a blocked nose and won't go down for a kip. And the wife has gone shopping.

I'm ready to explode at someone.

You clearly do your best work under pressure.
 
It's either sack the manager or the board.

Hope no one suggests sacking the fans.:eek:
 
It's easy to come out with "sack the manager" calls when we live in a world of instant gratification.

Mostly it's idiotic, but sometimes it can be the right call. I've seen lot of incredibly poor management this season, yet we're still in a play-off spot after a great cup run. Normally, this would indicate that calling for the manager's head is moronic. However, the amount of money NC has had to spend this season and the way he's spent it is almost unprecedented.

In terms of comparative performance with last year:

The GK situation is roughly the same as last season.
The defence is weaker
The midfield is weaker
The attack is pretty much the same

not a great situation given the amount of players who have come in.

I'm not one for knee-jerk replacement of managers. It happens far too often in modern football and normally doesn't work. But, if you've got the wrong manager in place then n ot saying it is wrong too.

As I've said on another thread, the only real point in replacing him at this stage would be if there's a superior replacement waiting in the wings.
 
It's easy to come out with "sack the manager" calls when we live in a world of instant gratification.

Mostly it's idiotic, but sometimes it can be the right call. I've seen lot of incredibly poor management this season, yet we're still in a play-off spot after a great cup run. Normally, this would indicate that calling for the manager's head is moronic. However, the amount of money NC has had to spend this season and the way he's spent it is almost unprecedented.

In terms of comparative performance with last year:

The GK situation is roughly the same as last season.
The defence is weaker
The midfield is weaker
The attack is pretty much the same

not a great situation given the amount of players who have come in.

I'm not one for knee-jerk replacement of managers. It happens far too often in modern football and normally doesn't work. But, if you've got the wrong manager in place then n ot saying it is wrong too.

As I've said on another thread, the only real point in replacing him at this stage would be if there's a superior replacement waiting in the wings.

I'd say the attack is better, but otherwise agree with this.
 
I'd say the attack is better, but otherwise agree with this.

I'd agree in terms of personnel,but last year we had Scougs on form, Flynn playing better and Coady making bursting runs. We've had very little from centre mid this season. We're reliant on Murphy much more. Teams can see that and are learning to mark him out of the game.
 
I've seen lot of incredibly poor management this season,.

I called you previously on this and I don't believe you answered. Go on please state the "incredibly" poor management because other than opinion and fishwives speculation I see a team of players who believe in the manager. Most came because of the manager so I am really interested in where this comes from.
 
I'd agree in terms of personnel,but last year we had Scougs on form, Flynn playing better and Coady making bursting runs. We've had very little from centre mid this season. We're reliant on Murphy much more. Teams can see that and are learning to mark him out of the game.

They are all midfielders....
 



I called you previously on this and I don't believe you answered. Go on please state the "incredibly" poor management because other than opinion and fishwives speculation I see a team of players who believe in the manager. Most came because of the manager so I am really interested in where this comes from.

You did and I answered by just highlighting the defence:

Started the season with Alcock and Harrison in the middle
fell out with our two senior CBs - not replaced them
plays the CM he bought as first choice as CB
Plays a left back at CB.
Spent more on a right back than probably every other transfer put together. Good he is, but there were serious problems in other areas which needed addressing.
failure to play a settled back four
dreadful pre-season where no one got the chance to build up understanding
Brought in 20 odd players yet we have one injury prone CB who he's prepared to play
Our LB cover is playing at CB so he cannot rest Harris
Played Harrison at RB (and as a striker?!)
The defence is small

That's just off the top of my head.
 
They are all midfielders....

yes, well spotted. An attack is not just forwards, especially when playing one up front. I was talking about our overall attacking play. In terms of strikers, Done is a great signing.
 
I think the point being about Warnock is that he had 8 years in the Championship, not League One. Like others have said, Clough has probably had the biggest budget in the division and we're concerned about not even making the play offs? It's quite frankly a disgrace. We've seen evidence that these players are good enough. When we play crap, everyone seems to play crap. Do you think that these players are ALL crap all of a sudden? You can have the best squad in the division but if your manager isn't up to scratch, you're not going to get results.

And he never takes any responsibility for our results. He never admits he got it wrong, if he does. So why should I instil my belief in a manager who won't accept some of the blame?

It's not working Nigel. Hold your hands up and admit this. Then change your approach.
 
You did and I answered by just highlighting the defence:

Started the season with Alcock and Harrison in the middle
fell out with our two senior CBs - not replaced them
plays the CM he bought as first choice as CB
Plays a left back at CB.
Spent more on a right back than probably every other transfer put together. Good he is, but there were serious problems in other areas which needed addressing.
failure to play a settled back four
dreadful pre-season where no one got the chance to build up understanding
Brought in 20 odd players yet we have one injury prone CB who he's prepared to play
Our LB cover is playing at CB so he cannot rest Harris
Played Harrison at RB (and as a striker?!)
The defence is small

That's just off the top of my head.

Apologies I didn't see it before, if I had I would have said this.

I'm sorry but even if I wanted to I couldn't put most of that down to "Incredibly" bad management. I would say a few of them are down to situation and most of your opinion that they are incredibly bad is based on supposition and no actual knowledge of the internal goings on at the club. Fact is your exactly right it is off the top of your head and if you wanted to you could challenge every comment made for example.

dreadful pre-season where no one got the chance to build up understanding : Clough identified players like Davies and Beard but couldn't get them, so he wasn't prepared to settle for just anything.

The defence is small : How many goals did we concede yesterday down to that issue?

Started the season with Alcock and Harrison in the middle : Incredibly bad management? Or just perhaps a mistake or perhaps he tried something and it just didn't work. Shit happens.

I dread to think what you do for a living because I wouldn't want you in my employment if your every move is followed by "thats an incredibly bad move" or "thats disasterous management".

You know what I think, and brace yourself because I'm going to be harsh. You just follow the crowd and have absolutely no original thought to call your own. The crowd say Cloughs great, your in. The crowd say Clough sucks, your in. I'll grant you Clough has made mistakes, because we all do. But "incredibly" bad? Really?
 
Sat having a pre match beer and the bloke next to me ranting on about wanting Collins back in the team - Give me strength !!
Why not go the whole hog and get Long, Porter, McMahon and Westlake, back!
Collins is bad news, forever blaming his teamates for his ricks and there were plenty of them - some people have short memories !!
 
You have to take the rough with the smooth, and stop always looking for someone to blame.

HH

You do indeed HH - trouble is too many people, have too many opinions about too many things and someone these days has to be to blame unfortunately.

It's because we now have a spoon fed culture who all wants things gifted to them.

UTB
 
Apologies I didn't see it before, if I had I would have said this.

I'm sorry but even if I wanted to I couldn't put most of that down to "Incredibly" bad management. I would say a few of them are down to situation and most of your opinion that they are incredibly bad is based on supposition and no actual knowledge of the internal goings on at the club. Fact is your exactly right it is off the top of your head and if you wanted to you could challenge every comment made for example.

dreadful pre-season where no one got the chance to build up understanding : Clough identified players like Davies and Beard but couldn't get them, so he wasn't prepared to settle for just anything. I meant in terms of not playing the same back four pre-season and constantly swapping players around. No chance to get any kind of understanding.

The defence is small : How many goals did we concede yesterday down to that issue? How many have we conceded this season and how many corners have we scored from?

Started the season with Alcock and Harrison in the middle : Incredibly bad management? Or just perhaps a mistake or perhaps he tried something and it just didn't work. Shit happens. Playing a young centre back with zero experience with a right back who has just joined the club isn't exactly clever.

I dread to think what you do for a living because I wouldn't want you in my employment if your every move is followed by "thats an incredibly bad move" or "thats disasterous management".

You know what I think, and brace yourself because I'm going to be harsh. You just follow the crowd and have absolutely no original thought to call your own. The crowd say Cloughs great, your in. The crowd say Clough sucks, your in. I'll grant you Clough has made mistakes, because we all do. But "incredibly" bad? Really?

Football is all about opinions, as you say. I could accuse you of blindly believing in a manager with a lack of pedigree because his surname is Clough.

I can't remember a half decent manager we've had making so many tactical errors, poor substitutions, poor management of players and more worryingly, a total inability to get performances out of most of his players.
 
Sat having a pre match beer and the bloke next to me ranting on about wanting Collins back in the team - Give me strength !!
Why not go the whole hog and get Long, Porter, McMahon and Westlake, back!
Collins is bad news, forever blaming his teamates for his ricks and there were plenty of them - some people have short memories !!

I noticed Westlake got sent off yesterday
 
Football is all about opinions, as you say. I could accuse you of blindly believing in a manager with a lack of pedigree because his surname is Clough.

You could until you read some of the other things I have posted about how someone in the club really needs to be sitting down with him and saying things need to change.

Don't for one minute think I feel this situation is acceptable, don't think I feel the manager is beyond criticism, but I believe he can and will get us promoted. If he doesn't and I am wrong by the end of next season we aren't promoted them feel free to come back to me and say I told you so. I am often wrong so can take it but I stand by what I believe in.
 
You could until you read some of the other things I have posted about how someone in the club really needs to be sitting down with him and saying things need to change.

Don't for one minute think I feel this situation is acceptable, don't think I feel the manager is beyond criticism, but I believe he can and will get us promoted. If he doesn't and I am wrong by the end of next season we aren't promoted them feel free to come back to me and say I told you so. I am often wrong so can take it but I stand by what I believe in.

I'm conflicted about Clough to be honest. I wasn't overly enthusiastic when we appointed him, but given the likely alternatives, I was very happy.

I liked the thought of him playing good football and building a team, but I'm continually frustrated by his blind spots and stubbornness. From the statement that he wants to have a small squad and then having the biggest one in the league, to some of his baffling post-match comments, he worries me.

I think he genuinely wants to make us a successful club, but I'm personally seeing worrying signs of a lack of ability. I'd love him to succeed, I'm fed up with changing managers and I don't want some hoof merchant in again. It's just incredibly frustrating.
 
You do indeed HH - trouble is too many people, have too many opinions about too many things and someone these days has to be to blame unfortunately.

It's because we now have a spoon fed culture who all wants things gifted to them.

UTB

SUFC are in the entertainment business . IMO everyone has the right to a opinion , if they are a paying customer at the lane . We are not getting value for money , so fans are entitled to moan and have a go.

Yes i love taking rough with the smooth and paying for the pleasure.

UTB
 
Why is sacking the manager every time something goes wrong the answer? Football fans really can be a ridiculous bunch sometimes. I witnessed an awful game yesterday and I was gutted, felt sold short, felt that we should be so much better than we are, and felt ashamed I had brought my boy to witness such mediocrity, but I don't just turn to the Manager as the culpable one. I can't be the only one who doesn't react like this.

You have good form and he is a hero (nominated for Manager of the Month last month), wins away at the League leaders easily, then three weeks later people want his head on a spike.

Look at the last 2 managers who got us to the Premiership (DIvision 1). 1 took us down before he got us promoted and the other one had the best part of 8 years at it. Bassett handed his notice to the board following relegation to the third division and they decided not to accept it. Can't see that happening following a relegation in this day and age can you? Warnock got various goes at promotion before he finally got it right.

What I would say is in the first case, had it been this day and age with social media and forums Dave Bassett would never have had the opportunity to do what he did. I don't for the life of me know why McCabe gave Warnock another shot at promotion but he did and look what happened.

I think that team I saw yesterday is labouring in part under a weight of expectation at home, playing on a surface that I wouldn't have been keen on as a Sunday League player and also having issues gelling as a unit. We didn't get the players we wanted when we wanted them in August so we are paying the price now. You can blame Clough for all or some of that but the ridiculous thing is, had Turner not had a mare we could have won that game and we would have bimbled on regardless. These fine lines are what keeps a guy in a job or gets him sacked.

What am I saying? Right now is not the time to throw everything out and wholesale change the manager and his backroom staff. Certainly they should be criticised and I hope people from the board are talking to NC and saying you need to sort this out. But some of the Clough must go rubbish and speculation based on what people heard from Derby fans previously (who are probably as fickle as we are) really isn't the reason to just bin the bloke off and start again. I hear some of the names bandied about and some people must be labouring under the misapprehension that we are still a big club. We are not so all that would happen is another Danny Wilson type will come in, things will look up for a period of time before ultimately going down the pan, us paying another manager off and starting all over again.

While he has to get things right Clough has us in TWO cup semi finals in the past 12 months. We are a third division club so I would suggest he has the ability to do something right. Tactically he must be able to achieve something with his teams to beat Premiership and Championship opposition with such apparent ease. We took Spurs to within 5 minutes of extra time in a semi final only a few weeks ago. Yet a few weeks later people want the bloke sacked?

Stay calm, steer the course and lets get the fuck on with the rest of the season. If we get promoted then we have achieved what we set out to do. If we don't then questions can and should be asked then. Not before.
well put bladesway it is still all to play for recriminations after season ends if it goes tits up .although this is cloughs team i feel he is being let down by a number of players at present hopefully he can sort it out
 



I'd agree in terms of personnel,but last year we had Scougs on form, Flynn playing better and Coady making bursting runs. We've had very little from centre mid this season. We're reliant on Murphy much more. Teams can see that and are learning to mark him out of the game.
Why did he let JCR go then we had a threat then on either flank.
 

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