Where did it all start to go wrong this season?

[sitwell]

When we beat Hull and went up a couple of years too early.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

For me it all fell apart after Wilder's post match press conference last season against Leicester in the away game.

I agree with that, had a very good season and then he just lost it on live TV slamming the players. It wasn't in anyway constructive and for sure it must have affected some of the players.

 

[Shoreham_Bhoys]

Started post lockdown, the promotion wave we were riding flopped.

Although we still weren’t as bad as we are now. We look very unfit and way less athletic than other PL sides with bigger, stronger competitors.

 

[Bladesman]

It went tits up as soon as we went into lockdown and the fitness team played the wrong hand.

That was like when F1 went hybrid, and everyone had a different interpretation, but one was clearly better. We went for the wrong interpretation of keeping players fit when they couldn't train, and they were fucked by the time they could.

Maybe that contributed to the massive uptick in injuries we've had after having basically nothing but concussions last season.

JOC and Fleck getting injured before Villa just put everyone in an "Oh shit" mindset and we haven't recovered the swagger.

Recruitment was good if you're aiming for scraping safety in the Premier League or challenging for autos in the Championship, but we didn't have the squad to only bring in who we brought in. I think Bogle, Lowe, Brewster, Ramsdale etc are all the sort of "ones for the future" buys other Premier League teams would make, but they'd be that, for the future, they'd also sign players they needed to go straight in the team.

We needed a Lundstram replacement, a Norwood replacement, and an RCB and CB of at least lower Premier League quality. We've got nothing like that.

We have a back up back line of Rodwell, Jagielka, and Bryan, in the Premier League.

That is unforgivable.

Honestly think we'd have 10 more points with a crowd in too, probably still be down or flirting with it with some of the shambolic individual performances we've seen, but the crowd would have kept our concentration levels higher and wouldn't have let them give up or not even seem to try like they have done so many times this season.

Agreed, tell me this isn't worth another 10 or so points:

 

[BladeTillIDie]

Just rewatched this

 

[Houston_Blade]

Hi Stegosaurus here,

Recruitment when we spaffed up to 18 million on a goalie who can't dive, can't kick, can't catch and can't jump and up to 24 million of a striker who can't score and can't create. While not signing anyone to actually improve the squad and the only bit of depth being Lowe and Bogle.

Funny that. Our goalkeeper seemed to do all of those things quite well last night. I’d say Stego’s Ramsdale hatred might be a personal issue and maybe he should take it up with the lad himself.

Silly dinosaur.

 

[Bladesman]

Just rewatched this

I wonder if some of that was aimed at Lunny that interview.

 

[PokerBlade]

Even if one or two of those had been brought in there's no guarantee we'd be any better. Instead this thread would just be about how Watkins, Cash, Maupay or anyone else were unproven and a waste of money.

There has been no adaptation of the way we play and now we just do it worse than last season, with key players injured or gone, and with the (better quality than us) opposition wise to it.

Added to that we have no midfield. They don't attack incisively or help whatever forward permutation is thrown up in the air on any given day, and they sure as hell don't assist the defence. We have nothing in that area and no alternatives, though if we wanted to go really old school and play five up front we could, in theory, do so.

I'm afraid to say, heretical as it may be, it's the manager's fault.

You're right that there's no guarantee those players would've been enough to save us. The point is more that we haven't even been able to snipe the best of the Championship for our first team, let alone sign Prem quality back up.

 

[gordoncharles]

You're right that there's no guarantee those players would've been enough to save us. The point is more that we haven't even been able to snipe the best of the Championship for our first team, let alone sign Prem quality back up.

That's why we needed to be smarter about signings, and we weren't. It's quite obvious that there was both a reluctance to sign from Europe last year and there was probably nobody who had the first idea about the kind of players available either.

 

[PokerBlade]

That's why we needed to be smarter about signings, and we weren't. It's quite obvious that there was both a reluctance to sign from Europe last year and there was probably nobody who had the first idea about the kind of players available either.

Maybe, but we were still working with a limited scouting network and we went out and loaned Retsos, Zivkovic, and spent big money on Berge. And every other Prem club is already doing that too and they're years ahead of us in doing it.

I get that we've clearly not done well but it's also not as easy as just go into Europe and grab Prem quality players.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Spunking £23m on a 6th choice striker when we were crying out for midfield depth is the microcosm of our issue. You could argue £18m on a GK - or more accurately almost 50% of our transfer budget on a GK when we were crying out for midfield depth...

Each year we've evolved our midfield and this is the first year we havent. In previous years we've brought in Evans, Leonard, Lundstram, Carruthers, Holmes, Woodburn, Norwood, Freeman, Berge - obviously with mixed success but this off season we didn't bring in one single player. In fact with Freeman going out on loan and Lundstram not signing a new contract we lost two players. I'm still amazed by that. I was expecting 2 or 3 new faces in midfield, so to bring in zero was flabbergasting...

The rest for me is deckchairs on the titanic stuff.

Having a truly awful midfield is what has killed us.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

1. Wasting the JTW last season. 2 absolute shitshow loans and a marquee signing that we didn’t need & didn’t know how to fit into the side. One which won’t pull on the shirt in 21/22.

2. Not recouping money for Robinson & Freeman, instead accepting an awful swap deal & a loan from a team that had just received £15m for a slightly better than average full back. They wanted him? They should’ve fucking paid for him.

3. Believing our own hype.

4. Not sorting Moose & Lunny out. Neither should’ve been at the club from August onwards.

5. Ramsdale.

6. Either ditching the formation on JOC’s injury or recruitment a proper replacement.

7. Have the likes of Brighton run rings around us regarding recruitment & scouting.

8. Keeping absolute dross on the payroll.

9. Riding the horses too hard for too long.

10. Not trusting our youth.

11. Still buying Brewster when a loan and loan to buy were rejected by Liverpool.

12. Not buying Toney, despite playing for CW in the past.

13. Stubbornness & intransigence from CW.

14. Having 4 loans open to us this season and using 1.

15. Flat midfield 3, in all senses of the word.

16. Not mobility, physicality or pace (intelligent) upfront.

17. A regression to unstructured long ball.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

....other than that, it’s been a season of fine margins.

 

[Glen Luce]

The rot started after the mid-season break last campaign. Racking up niggling injuries that have gone from bad to worse. Last season we must have had the most settled side in any division, this season we've barely played the same defence one game to the next.

The loss of JOC can't be understated. Not just because he's that good, but because when we can't even pay competitive wages for first team players the idea of signing Prem quality back up just isn't going to happen. We finished last night with Jags, Bryan, and Ampadu. Jags is a legend but there's a reason there's not a player older than him at this level. Ampadu will probably go on to have a decent career but it probably won't be as a defender. Bryan, I don't want to criticise because he seems like a hard working players who's had a rough time with injury, but I'd have been worried about him playing in the Championship. Simple fact is, you wouldn't be happy with that back line in the Championship and it's never going to work in the Prem.

Last night showed us the major issue with underperformers as well. Without Norwood on the pitch we're incapable of stringing three passes together, but how can you justify playing him when he's been gifting goals to opposition like he did vs. Wham? Lundstram shouldn't be in the mix with both form and contract issues but there's no one seriously contending for his shirt. You've got Ramsdale who desperately needs a boost of confidence, has played alright the last two games, but still walks away having let four goals in in that time and looks more lost as time goes on.

We were great last season but we did it with a very thin squad and got lucky with injuries. This season we've got very unlucky with injuries. A few players can make a big difference. JOC and Henderson show that. Nowt we can do about JOC and nowt we could do about Hendo. Ramsdale was most people's first choice.

Just take a look at the players we know we wanted, the likes of Watkins, Cash, Maupay. We could pay the fee but were nowhere near for wages and we've ended up with our second and third choices. We've had to gamble on potential with the likes of Ampadu and Brewster and while the gamble clearly hasn't paid off, what else could we do?

I don't like psychologising it too much but as the rots set in, as the other issues have come up, confidence has dropped further and with it the performances of previously reliable players.

Honestly, I'm done complaining, I'm done moaning about it, I'm done looking for answers, it's all been said and done at this point. This season has gone incredibly wrong and I just want it over so we can start repairing it in a division where I think we can compete.

Some strong points there PB and a sensible desire to stop complaining (bet you don't manage that for long mind you - tried it!

By way of light relief, albeit just on a pedantic note however, which I hope you take in the spirit in which it is intended:- You say the loss of JOC "can't be understated". Sadly, it certainly can, with consummate ease. In fact, the loss of JOC cannot be OVERstated. How do you overstate the loss,? it is a serious loss, a loss too far! Even to say it is a f**kin' shitty barsteward of a loss is hardly overstating its impact. Therefore you can very easily understate the loss; you just say 'not much of a loss'. It's late (or early), so I hope I've got that right. UTB and keep the faith; at least we haven't paid to watch.

 

[robbiez666]

Maybe, but we were still working with a limited scouting network and we went out and loaned Retsos, Zivkovic, and spent big money on Berge. And every other Prem club is already doing that too and they're years ahead of us in doing it.

I get that we've clearly not done well but it's also not as easy as just go into Europe and grab Prem quality players.

I don't believe any of those signings were down to our scouting network or management team. More like The Prince and van Winckel using their European contacts. I believe Wilder even brought Rodwell on ahead of Retsos during a game, which says it all really. He was incredibly reluctant to use the European loanees. Even when the fans were crying out to give Zivkovoc a chance which he reluctantly did.

 

[jono_t2000]

I think Wilder assumed our back 3

I don't believe any of those signings were down to our scouting network or management team. More like The Prince and van Winckel using their European contacts. I believe Wilder even brought Rodwell on ahead of Retsos during a game, which says it all really. He was incredibly reluctant to use the European loanees. Even when the fans were crying out to give Zivkovoc a chance which he reluctantly did.

Yeah, it's like getting an ugly sweater by your mother inlaw at xmas and all you can do is grit your teeth and smile.

While really all ur thinking about is how you can't wait to shove it in the back of the closet never to be seen again.

 

[Revolution]

I don't believe any of those signings were down to our scouting network or management team. More like The Prince and van Winckel using their European contacts. I believe Wilder even brought Rodwell on ahead of Retsos during a game, which says it all really. He was incredibly reluctant to use the European loanees. Even when the fans were crying out to give Zivkovoc a chance which he reluctantly did.

He was right about Zivkovic. He was hopeless.

 

[ATL Recs]

For me it all fell apart after Wilder's post match press conference last season against Leicester in the away game.

I

I agree with that, had a very good season and then he just lost it on live TV slamming the players. It wasn't in anyway constructive and for sure it must have affected some of the players.

We didn’t have a very good season ffs
We had a very good two thirds of a season
It was clear as mud when football resumed last season we weren’t the same and recruits were needed

 

[BladeInIreland]

Covid is the main reason for me. No fixture congestion and likely we would have kept our good injury record. Fans in and an increased transfer budget.

 

[Netsix_and_chill]

It went wrong with project restart. A thought I have had for the reason is based on a team my lad played for a few years back. The assistant coach would stand on the side lines and very vocally coach the players during the match. The kids ended up not knowing whether they were coming or going and you could tell their decision making was half a second off as they where anticipating whether they should follow instinct or wait to hear what the instructions were.

Don't get me wrong, I like w! Wilder he is the best manager we have had in my lifetime following the blades but he is a gobshite on the touchline and now there is no crowd to drown it out could that be what has had such a detrimental effect on some individuals performance?

 

[BlairBlade]

Recruitment for me. How many of our signings in the Premier league have actually made the team stronger? I would argue only bogle, and he was not really a position of great need. The resigning of Jags and Rodwell was bizarre as was not getting rid of players who didn't want to be here. The injuries to key players were crippling but the failure to get a LCB was bewildering at the time. A solid defender and a decent attacking midfielder may have kept us up. We have no option but to play Lunny Norwood or a clearly unfit fleck in midfield because their replacements are nonexistent.

Couldn’t agree more.
Our recruitment has been beyond woeful.
Only Bogle has really added anything.
Pitiful when the total spend was 120 million or more.

 

[BlairBlade]

Just rewatched this

“Damage limitation” what a good idea?

 

[BlairBlade]

I wonder if some of that was aimed at Lunny that interview.

If it was it is a great shame that he insists on playing him every week.

 

[raul]

1. Wasting the JTW last season. 2 absolute shitshow loans and a marquee signing that we didn’t need & didn’t know how to fit into the side. One which won’t pull on the shirt in 21/22.

2. Not recouping money for Robinson & Freeman, instead accepting an awful swap deal & a loan from a team that had just received £15m for a slightly better than average full back. They wanted him? They should’ve fucking paid for him.

3. Believing our own hype.

4. Not sorting Moose & Lunny out. Neither should’ve been at the club from August onwards.

5. Ramsdale.

6. Either ditching the formation on JOC’s injury or recruitment a proper replacement.

7. Have the likes of Brighton run rings around us regarding recruitment & scouting.

8. Keeping absolute dross on the payroll.

9. Riding the horses too hard for too long.

10. Not trusting our youth.

11. Still buying Brewster when a loan and loan to buy were rejected by Liverpool.

12. Not buying Toney, despite playing for CW in the past.

13. Stubbornness & intransigence from CW.

14. Having 4 loans open to us this season and using 1.

15. Flat midfield 3, in all senses of the word.

16. Not mobility, physicality or pace (intelligent) upfront.

17. A regression to unstructured long ball.

18. Sending them to train in Stanley Park for the cameras like a Dog and Duck X1, then having a pop at them two days after going toe to toe with Man City. Can't have it both ways, we are either servile underdogs OR equals.

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

Just rewatched this

There's an honest manager speaking from the heart and if any players watching that got a bit mardy then firstly, they should have just taken it on the chin, and, secondly, I'll bet what he said in that interview was tame compared to what he actually said in the dressing room.

If any of our players DID get a bit mardy because of that interview, then they should hand back their red and white striped shirts, have a good look at their weekly payslip and fuck off to M&S and buy some monogrammed handkerchiefs to blow their poor little noses in and wipe the crocodile tears from their eyes!

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

There's an honest manager speaking from the heart and if any players watching that got a bit mardy then firstly, they should have just taken it on the chin, and, secondly, I'll bet what he said in that interview was tame compared to what he actually said in the dressing room.

If any of our players DID get a bit mardy because of that interview, then they should hand back their red and white striped shirts, have a good look at their weekly payslip and fuck off to M&S and buy some monogrammed handkerchiefs to blow their poor little noses in and wipe the crocodile tears from their eyes!

Exactly! This x1000

This is elite level sport. The reason we're 20th in the PL is because we are the 20th best side with the 20th best players. Elite sport boys and girls.

No amount of cod psychological theories is going to make up for the fact that for most of this season we've had a midfield 3 of an unfit Fleck, a woefully out of his depth Norwood and a wantaway Lundstram.

Nothing to do with mardy players or tactics or motivation. We just aren't good.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I

We didn’t have a very good season ffs
We had a very good two thirds of a season
It was clear as mud when football resumed last season we weren’t the same and recruits were needed

I'd say top 10 in first season up was a fantastic season despite a loss in form towards the end. We were still in with a chance of europe with 2 games, hardly worth smashing the team when that was still on the table IMO.

 

[Nosworthys Throw]

For me we havent been the same since we returned from "operation re-start" last season

A few things that happened around this time, these are my musings

1. The initial lock down when football was suspended, at one point it looked like the season might be cancelled. Did some of our players do enough to look after themselves during this period?
2. Around this time we tied our "best" players down to new improved long term contracts, most of which have massively under performed since then. Some of them set for life now? (Fleck, Norwood, Stevens)
3. Signing Sander Berge. He walked straight in to the team and kept his place despite some pretty poor performances, i imagine hes on a fair bit more money than most, maybe some players got the tit on? Lundstram?
4. The loss of the Bramall Lane faithful cant be underestimated. Not just the cheering them on thats missing its also the brutal side where we simply wouldnt stand for some of the displays we've witnessed.

Going into this season,

5. The pink kit of doom. Talk about a bad omen!
6. The realisation of where we are financially. We understood that we werent in the market for Premier League players, that we'd have to dip into the championship with a view of signing their best talent. We werent even in that market! We were miles off from signing our number one targets, who all went to our rivals!
7. Signing Ramsdale and Brewster. With hindsight, we really shouldnt have spunked our entire budget on these two, i can live with Ramsdale but Brewster looks like hes not quite ready for mens football.
8. Injuries, theres no denying this has had a massive impact, not just the serious injuries but lots of niggles as well.
9. Not signing anyone in Jan. "one player wont make a difference" Anyone been watching the Lingard show for West ham?
10. Tactics. "its not the system, the system is fine" We'll never know because we havent tried anything else!

 

[The Crab]

Imagine if we had qualified for Europe, getting smashed by someone who had finished 3rd in the Finnish league most likely................

 

[Bladesince59]

We weren't massively inspiring against Norwich at home were we?
The fact is that we weren't ready for the PL. Hopefully next time we will be.