Where did it all go wrong?

[grafikhaus]

But to be fair we were only relegated by the narrowest of margins and with enough points to have kept us up most years. That in a season when most commentators thought we were certs for relegation.

Yes NW did make lots of mistakes but United did better than most people were predicting at the start of that seasons.

Yes, 38 points would normally be enough to stay up, but look who West Ham had in their team - Tevez, Scudamore, Richards and Brooking. A pretty formidable line-up.

Worth noting in any 'Should Warnock have been sacked?' debate. That year, we were fiddled. Pure and simple.

 

[Elsecar_Blade]

I agree completely with the arguments about why Warnock was not good enough in the Premier League. Some of his signings and away tactics in the Premier League were abysmal.

HOWEVER: You cannot take away the fact that our home record was excellent that season. We went down (unfairly in most peoples opinion) by the narrowest of margins. IMO, Neil Warnock would have got Sheffield United promoted back to the Premier League at the first attempt. We should have kept him particularly seeing as we replaced him with Mr. Robson. Then, we could have sacked him after promotion!

 

[Trigger Blade]

Spurs 1977 I'll give ya, but not Newcastle 2009. They're big, but haven't won dot since 1969. Everton carry a bigger reputation IMO.

Surely Man U in 1974 has to be bigger? They'd won the European Cup in 1968 and relegation was a pretty big fall.

Newcastle were averaging about 20k crowds, 16k one season, in the early nineties and as you say, have won nothing for yonks.

Bigger than us admittedly, but that's not a tall order.

 

[boo radley]

But to be fair we were only relegated by the narrowest of margins and with enough points to have kept us up most years. That in a season when most commentators thought we were certs for relegation.

Yes NW did make lots of mistakes but United did better than most people were predicting at the start of that seasons.

These things are true, but the "lots of mistakes" gave McCabe every reason to can Warnock, particularly given his behaviour in the run up to the Wigan game. Even ignoring all the crap Warnock signed, there was ample talent in the squad for a half decent manager to take us back up, as Blackwell proved when he took over. Unfortunately, before that happened, McCabe appointed a terrible manager for reasons that I still do not understand.

But thats why we should not have got rid of him. The talent was there and the players were loyal to him. the lessons learned from the prem season were for both chaiman and manager.
only the chairman new best......or did he?
The vocal fans who thought we'd earned the right to be bigger than what we were, were also to blame.

 

[Revolution]

Boo, I think getting rid of Warnock was the right decision at the time, but I will concede that it is possible that had Warnock stayed we may have gone back up and/or been in a better position than we are now.

I do not accept this statement for one minute, however:

The vocal fans who thought we'd earned the right to be bigger than what we were, were also to blame.

This is not true. McCabe did not make that decision on the basis of what the fans thought (or may have thought, as I do not recall any major anti-Warnock demonstrations after the game). He made it on his own.

It is not the fan's fault we were relegated or Warnock's contract was not renewed.

Personally, given the Portsmouth business the previous season, I think Warnock had it coming.

 

[bladeinspaceandtime]

But thats why we should not have got rid of him. The talent was there and the players were loyal to him. the lessons learned from the prem season were for both chaiman and manager.
only the chairman new best......or did he?
The vocal fans who thought we'd earned the right to be bigger than what we were, were also to blame.

The problem is that Warnock signed his own resignation when he said it was ours to fuck up when we were 10 points clear of the relegation places. It was time for him to go (I could have lamped him coming out with all that "just glad to be here" bollocks at the start of that season) the issue was replacing him with the old boozehound, seemingly to placate Brian Kidd.... the worst decision McCabe has made on behalf of SUFC

 

[Mousey]

Spurs 1977 I'll give ya, but not Newcastle 2009. They're big, but haven't won dot since 1969. Everton carry a bigger reputation IMO.

Newcastle won the Intertoto Cup in 2006.

 

[JohnDenver]

No but Kenwright can't be too short.

According to a well informed chappie on the radio last weekend, Everton are taking out a multi-million pound loan from one director at 10%, just to cover the coming year's operation.

Sounds to me like they're skint with a capital S.

 

[raul]

http://www.evertoniansforchange.com/?p=224

 

[Ted Danson]

But to be fair we were only relegated by the narrowest of margins and with enough points to have kept us up most years. That in a season when most commentators thought we were certs for relegation.

Yes NW did make lots of mistakes but United did better than most people were predicting at the start of that seasons.

These things are true, but the "lots of mistakes" gave McCabe every reason to can Warnock, particularly given his behaviour in the run up to the Wigan game. Even ignoring all the crap Warnock signed, there was ample talent in the squad for a half decent manager to take us back up, as Blackwell proved when he took over. Unfortunately, before that happened, McCabe appointed a terrible manager for reasons that I still do not understand.

you need to watch that dispatches 'how to buy a football club' and then you will fully understand.

 

[geekblade]

Just sounds to me that he is highlighting how quickly things can go wrong for a club and how he wants to avoid such a situation for Everton, which I think is fair. I wouldn't read in to it too much the Blades and Everton have very little in common.

 

[boo radley]

Boo, I think getting rid of Warnock was the right decision at the time, but I will concede that it is possible that had Warnock stayed we may have gone back up and/or been in a better position than we are now.

I do not accept this statement for one minute, however:

The vocal fans who thought we'd earned the right to be bigger than what we were, were also to blame.

This is not true. McCabe did not make that decision on the basis of what the fans thought (or may have thought, as I do not recall any major anti-Warnock demonstrations after the game). He made it on his own.

It is not the fan's fault we were relegated or Warnock's contract was not renewed.

Personally, given the Portsmouth business the previous season, I think Warnock had it coming.

I dont think anyone blamed the fans for the relegation. I believe however that some helped to hasten his (warnocks) departure by vocalising about him having 'taken the club as far as he could' etc. through various media. I think his desiscion to leave was influenced as such.

The problem is that Warnock signed his own resignation when he said it was ours to fuck up when we were 10 points clear of the relegation places. It was time for him to go (I could have lamped him coming out with all that "just glad to be here" bollocks at the start of that season) the issue was replacing him with the old boozehound, seemingly to placate Brian Kidd.... the worst decision McCabe has made on behalf of SUFC

I dont think he helped himself either and think he should have believed more in where we were and his own ability. That team was a bloody good team and if developed further would have had no probs. Apart from not enjoying the obvious wigan game (which now looked back on was a good game), The newcastle at home game was about the only one i did not enjoy. Man city boxing day was frustrating coz we played them off park, and a few days later we did same to Arsenal with a stand in keeper.
So for a manager to put a little doubt in things could have made the difference.

 

[Newbury Blade]

On my train home after a game a the Lane, Bill Kenwright got in at Derby (where Everton had been playing) and seeing my Blades shirt he started chatting. We had a really enjoyable conversation all the way to London and he came over as a decent bloke. We had just appointed Adrian Heath and BK was telling me what a great manager he would make, so maybe that tells you something about his judgment.

 

[Micalijo]

Just read a fuller version of the Moyes interview and he is quoted as saying 'they are passing the ball well'. Clearly the pressure is getting to him in a big, big way.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Just read a fuller version of the Moyes interview and he is quoted as saying 'they are passing the ball well'. Clearly the pressure is getting to him in a big, big way.

It's a craaaacker......

 

[super_pig]

it was neils fault we went down IMO .. his submissive away tactics cost us large.. plus i don't think the constant ref baiting did us any favours either.. be interesting to see how he gets on this time and whether he has learned from the experience

 

[puppet]

so far a mid table team have tonked them at home 4-0 and theyve scraped a 1-0 away at an under-pressure team.... looks like hes employing the same tactics

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

so far a mid table team have tonked them at home 4-0 and theyve scraped a 1-0 away at an under-pressure team.... looks like hes employing the same tactics

and he thinks Joey Barton is the answer !

 

[Micalijo]

Nowt amuses me more than seeing you lot on one of your regular 'let's all slag off Warnock' days; the manager who got 92 points in second tier and a fantastic 38 points in top flight with virtually zero backing from a pathetic chairman.

 

[SwissBlade]

Nowt amuses me more than seeing you lot on one of your regular 'let's all slag off Warnock' days; the manager who got 92 points in second tier and a fantastic 38 points in top flight with virtually zero backing from a pathetic chairman.

And we only got relegated by cheats

 

[raul]

I thought the players garnered the points, thanks for putting me straight Micadoodledoo.

 

[Micalijo]

My sincere apolgies Mr Raul. I will amend to say the manager who was in charge of the teams that got 92 points and then 38 points in Premier League.

 

[Darren]

My sincere apolgies Mr Raul. I will amend to say the manager who was in charge of the teams that got 92 points and then 38 points in Premier League.

It was 90

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

Nowt amuses me more than seeing you lot on one of your regular 'let's all slag off Warnock' days; the manager who got 92 points in second tier and a fantastic 38 points in top flight with virtually zero backing from a pathetic chairman.

So fantastic we stayed up! Oh wait.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

My sincere apolgies Mr Raul. I will amend to say the manager who was in charge of the teams that got 92 points and then 38 points in Premier League.

I'm far from a Warnocker as the ex-BU'ers will tell you but let's not forget that but for Leeds self-combusting under a manager whose name escapes me, we may well have cocked the promotion season up. 38 points is no good when 39 was needed (and should have been achieved).

 

[broomhillblade]

Nowt amuses me more than seeing you lot on one of your regular 'let's all slag off Warnock' days; the manager who got 92 points in second tier and a fantastic 38 points in top flight with virtually zero backing from a pathetic chairman.

Mic knocks chairman shocker...

 

[axel smeets]

Surely Man U in 1974 has to be bigger? They'd won the European Cup in 1968 and relegation was a pretty big fall.

Newcastle were averaging about 20k crowds, 16k one season, in the early nineties and as you say, have won nothing for yonks.

Bigger than us admittedly, but that's not a tall order.

Yeah I'd said Man U earlier on Trig. I'd said that if Everton were relegated it would be the biggest team down since them, however Daz pointed out Spurs in 1977, which is bang on, and then offered me Newcastle in 2009, but I said I didn't think they had the same cache as ManU/Spurs/Everton.

Oh, another one too, Darren, if you're reading: Aston Villa 1987. 5 years after the European Cup win and 6 after being champions of England. I'd missed them out too!!

 

[Darren]

Yeah I'd said Man U earlier on Trig. I'd said that if Everton were relegated it would be the biggest team down since them, however Daz pointed out Spurs in 1977, which is bang on, and then offered me Newcastle in 2009, but I said I didn't think they had the same cache as ManU/Spurs/Everton.

Oh, another one too, Darren, if you're reading: Aston Villa 1987. 5 years after the European Cup win and 6 after being champions of England. I'd missed them out too!!

Yes, Villa is a good one.

 

[grafikhaus]

Some good examples of 'mighty' teams who have fallen from grace (Especially Villa). I was at Hillsborough in - I think - 1981 when Villa needed to win to clinch the title. They won 4-0, had around 20,000 fans there and totally 'took' the kop. After the game, cue a massive pitch invasion and, in the melee (officer), I made my way to the centre spot where I promptly relieved myself (all true!)

Anyway, way back then our massive neighbours were again in the Third Division, looking doomed to go down into the Fourth and our friendly local 'newspaper', The Star, launched the 'Save our Owls' campaign. Stickers were distributed, collection tins rattled on Fargate (though not, on this occasion an appeal to turn up with brushes and paint...).

Come the last game - which Wendy needed to win (or maybe draw?) to stay up - the opposition basically laid down as they didn't want a massive club to go down. They conspired to roll a penalty straight at Wendys goalie (Bowyer v Grummitt?) and it was the biggest fiddle since the last day of the 1994 season (Everton, Fashanu, Segers, Grobelaar etc.) Wendy stayed up and have since grown into the World brand we see today.

The opposition? Man. City.

 

[Bladesway]

Nowt amuses me more than seeing you lot on one of your regular 'let's all slag off Warnock' days; the manager who got 92 points in second tier and a fantastic 38 points in top flight with virtually zero backing from a pathetic chairman.

Now you have me on my favourite topic here. Lets face facts, Warnock did well and got us promoted. No arguments there, but had McCabe been the hard as nails businessman he thinks he is he would have realised Warnock had taken us as far as he could and needed to be put out to grass before the season started.

Problems for me from that season were:-

Players too keen to be stood near fat frank and EBJT to swap shirts rather than rattling through the back of them for 90 minutes giving them hell. Thats Warnocks fault because it came across in everything he said.

January transfer window. I thought at the start of that season, Warnock bought reasonably well without really setting us alight. However, Rob Hulse was a great buy. His buying in January however was disgraceful. I don't (for once) blame short arms for this but Warnocks "throw enough shit at the wall and some of it will stick" philosophy. FFS, Seck? In a team trying to stay in the Premiership. Recommended by no other than tin man over in France. Rather than go to Everton and say "how much for BT? 6m you say, go on we'll have him" Warnock went and bought players who were stabs in the dark and players (Kilgallon) who weren't ready for the Premiership. Had he spent on one big name player we would have scored the goals that would have kept us up.

That fateful day at Chelsea when Hulse broke his leg.

Warnock bottling it on that massive day in May against Wigan. Playing players out of position (as he did) and letting Hesky rule the waves on that god awful day.

People can say whatever they want about cheats, 38 points being enough etc etc but the end game was had we drawn or won that last game against Wigan, then we would have never needed to have this conversation. We didn't, we choked and that was that.

My main issue with Warnock is when its going well its down to him and when its not, its everyone elses fault. He's a deeply unpleasant character blaming everyone else but himself for failure. Read his book and you can see it maps the mans life.

We are where we are because of McCabe, but we got here in no small part because Neil Warnock wasn't big enough to actually go out there that season and take a chance.