Where did it all go wrong?

[Revolution]

Some good examples of 'mighty' teams who have fallen from grace (Especially Villa). I was at Hillsborough in - I think - 1981 when Villa needed to win to clinch the title. They won 4-0, had around 20,000 fans there and totally 'took' the kop. After the game, cue a massive pitch invasion and, in the melee (officer), I made my way to the centre spot where I promptly relieved myself (all true!)

That must have been 1974-5 when Villa went up from Division 2 and the Pigs were relegated in fine style (last win of the season: 28th December!). Wednesday were not in the top flight when Villa won the league.

Come the last game - which Wendy needed to win (or maybe draw?) to stay up - the opposition basically laid down as they didn't want a massive club to go down. They conspired to roll a penalty straight at Wendys goalie (Bowyer v Grummitt?) and it was the biggest fiddle since the last day of the 1994 season (Everton, Fashanu, Segers, Grobelaar etc.) Wendy stayed up and have since grown into the World brand we see today.

The opposition? Man. City.

Errr...Wednesday lost that game 2-1 and did get relegated. And it was years before "Save our Owls" - the game was in 1970.

I forget exactly why Man City were conspring to keep the Pigs up - Crystal Palace would have gone down instead - but they did indeed deliberately miss a penalty. Unfortunately, no one had told Ian Bowyer, who came on as a sub and singlehandedly won the game for Man City.

All of this happened in torrential rain, which was of course great fun when Wednesday were at home then as the kop had no roof....

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Nowt amuses me more than seeing you lot on one of your regular 'let's all slag off Warnock' days; the manager who got 92 points in second tier and a fantastic 38 points in top flight with virtually zero backing from a pathetic chairman.

Complete and utter bullshit.

Point me to a single quote that Warnock has made where he's said that McCabe didn't give him any money in the top flight.

Are you forgetting that he spent 3 million in January 2007 on 2 players who played less than 5 games between them in the rest of that season?

Warnock was out of his depth in the transfer market that season. He relied on his old instincts of buying cheap, when we needed some proven quality.

I remember reading one journalist's review of the JTW that read "Neil Warnock is either a transfer genius or a transfer muppet." We all know now which one of the two he turned out to be.

 

[grafikhaus]

It's a bugger, this Alzheimer's...

 

[Revolution]

Warnock was out of his depth in the transfer market that season.

Players signed by NW for 1 million plus, Jan 2006 to Jan 2007:

Ade Akinbiyi - 1.75m
Geoff Horsfield - 1.2m
Rob Hulse - 2.2m
Claude Davis - 2.5m
Luton Shelton - 1.85m
Matthew Kilgallon - 1.75m

I'd forgotten just how bad it was...

 

[judge]

He would argue he was restricted by his wage budget which would not allow to him to sign a James Beattie our top earner that year was jags on 13k a week

Personally think he worked wonders withthe restrictions in place and if he had been allowed the kind of coin Bryan robson was we would be sitting where Stoke are now

 

[Revolution]

Personally think he worked wonders withthe restrictions in place and if he had been allowed the kind of coin Bryan robson was we would be sitting where Stoke are now

Personally, I think he'd have pissed it up a wall like the majority of the cash he got in 2006 and 2007. It'll be interesting to see if Fernandes trusts him will real money at QPR....

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Even Warnock has recognised he made mistakes in his transfers that season, in not bringing in players that could make a difference, which is why he's always been so keen to indulge taraabt

 

[Jonboy60]

final point

It's all to easy for the powers that be to claim that everything's rosey: ''Football on it's arse? Look at the gates! Look at Sky subscriptions! Look at the shirt sales overseas! Tickets too much? You obviously don't appreciate the quality of product !'' etc etc.

The ONLY thing IMHO that would change things would be a collective decision by fans to boycott games. But that won't happen, because people love watching football and they more importantly they love their teams. 'They' (whoever you define that as) have got us over a barrel.

No so called "big club" will go under while scudamore is still a part of running the premiere. got to much to loose cashwise; the grubby wanker.If any of the big teams remotely look like going to the wall, he will find a way to shore them up.[TOSSER].ps dont want to start another debate on the above shithead sorry]. UTB

 

[Bladesway]

He would argue he was restricted by his wage budget which would not allow to him to sign a James Beattie our top earner that year was jags on 13k a week

Personally think he worked wonders withthe restrictions in place and if he had been allowed the kind of coin Bryan robson was we would be sitting where Stoke are now

Comedy gold. Warnock cannot manage big players either because they won't respond to his bullyboy tactics. Mans an average manager who always fails at the top table.

 

[alcoblade]

Comedy gold. Warnock cannot manage big players either because they won't respond to his bullyboy tactics. Mans an average manager who always fails at the top table.

An average manager who has achieved 7 promotions with as many (I think) clubs.

Far from average and the likes of which we'll mock yet not replicate for many a year.

Those who citicised him would be much better admitting that they fucked up in a way no man they pontificate over has done.

UTB

 

[raul]

No they wouldn't. Any relegations at all?

UTB

 

[bricktop]

Back to the original point, where did it all go wrong.

I think it can be traced back to the week before the Wigan game, Warnock had asked for a new contract and not been granted it, and then at the end of the week we lost to Wigan, and subsequently lost to Wigan. Given how we had played for the majority of the season, we really should have got the point that we needed that day, and i think Warnocks disgruntlement about not getting his new contract must have had some effect on the side that went out that day.

There was a lot of stuff that went off around that time that was not paticularly nice. Liverpool and Manchester United fielding weakened sides against Fulham and West Ham United to rest their players for more important fixtures, the whole grubby Tevez affair, but the bottom line was that we didn't get anything from the game that we needed to get something from, and it cost us. Back to the Wigan game it almost seemed inevitable that it would all end up in tears. The Jagielka handball which was unfortunate as it happened to the best player we had, and a player who had given our club everything, the moment Danny Webber hit the post and i don't think he was ever the same player after, and the most disappointing thing, one of the bravest acts i've ever seen a United player perform when Jon Stead put his head in for a 10-90 ball weighted against him, and nearly got his head knocked off when he scored the equaliser. The bottom line was that it was a game we needed something from, and i think there was still a lasting effect of the Warnock argument on the team that day.

The other moment where it went wrong was with the appointment of Terry Robinson. It was all well when we was getting promoted, but i think with the money we had available at around that time, we entrusted it to the wrong chairman. After the sacking of Warnock we had the opportunity of bringing in someone who had the ability to take us up and keeping us up, and could have our pick of several highly rated managers. What we ended up with was Robinson getting seduced by bringing in someone who a top quality player but had a poor record as manager. I don't think we could have picked a worse manager at the time in Bryan Robson. When we signed James Beattie it actually scared me as i knew at the time there was every chance we could it could prove to be a disaster, especially as if we didn't secure promotion at the first attempt then we could potentially have been lumbered with someone on a lengthy contact on £40k a week.

The honest brutal truth is that we came so close to becoming an established premiership side, we had the money, the support, the ground and everything at the club was set up for a long run as a top flight side, but when it came to the crunch we was found wanting. In all honesty at this current moment in time we should be doing exactly what Stoke City are doing, but we aren't and in typical Sheffield United style we blew it

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

I fear you may have seized control of the bus there and driven it straight down the Darren-Walthamstow Memorial Cul-De-Sac.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Mind you they can be very entertaining... at times!

 

[Bladesway]

An average manager who has achieved 7 promotions with as many (I think) clubs.

Far from average and the likes of which we'll mock yet not replicate for many a year.

Those who citicised him would be much better admitting that they fucked up in a way no man they pontificate over has done.

UTB

Warnock got us relegated, not the fans. Hence Warnock fucked up, as many thought he may well do. When it comes to the big matches Warnock always makes the issue about himself. If memory served me right he pissed Windass off before the Play Off final (which we lost). He just cant keep his fucking big ego to himself. As I say, when its good, its always Warnock, when its bad, its always someone else. Sums the bastard up in a nutshell. Average and not fit to lace Dave Bassetts boots.

 

[supermorgs]

for me its simple (in a way) we wrongly sacked or if the story of sean bean after wigan game is true forced warnock to resign as i believe we would have bounced back, we wasted a season under robson, sold our best players afte play off final & also the overrelyians on loans

 

[judge]

Comedy gold. Warnock cannot manage big players either because they won't respond to his bullyboy tactics. Mans an average manager who always fails at the top table.

ok ,name one example of this

 

[Bladesway]

Jason Koumas. Warnock wouldn't sign him because he was a bad influence in the dressing room. Its pretty widely reported to be the case.

Andy Reid is alledged to have been interested until he met Warnock as well as a cast of others, but thats more rumous and speculation. Fact is, big players won't come play under Warnock unless they are like Barton, in the last chance saloon. Why do you think that is?

Different type of player and perhaps not a big name but, Patrick Suffo, blamed and booted out of the club yet when he came in Warnock said he was the next Pele. He wasn't. Windass was another example of a player Warnock couldn't handle but could have done a job for us.

You need more?

 

[LSF]

Jason Koumas. Warnock wouldn't sign him because he was a bad influence in the dressing room. Its pretty widely reported to be the case.

Andy Reid is alledged to have been interested until he met Warnock as well as a cast of others, but thats more rumous and speculation. Fact is, big players won't come play under Warnock unless they are like Barton, in the last chance saloon. Why do you think that is?

Different type of player and perhaps not a big name but, Patrick Suffo, blamed and booted out of the club yet when he came in Warnock said he was the next Pele. He wasn't. Windass was another example of a player Warnock couldn't handle but could have done a job for us.

You need more?

I reckon any manager you care to name in the history of the game has examples of those type of relationships and happenings, doesn't make em a bad manager (or an average one!).
Not liking a bloke because of his public personna doesn't cloud the judgement of the wiser ones amongst us.

 

[judge]

Sorry but scraping the barrel or what ????

Ive never heard of any talks with koumas never mind the fact he wouldn't sign for us because he hated Colin

Warnock had an agreement in place for Reid to sign IF we stayed uP so again bullshit and I won't justify the suffo (big name lol) argument with an answer

So I ask you again for one example

 

[Bladesway]

I'm never going to give you an example you agree with and I'm obviously never going to match LSF's apparent wisdom. So its really a big meh.

Be interested in what Warnock has ever done that makes him anything other than average though. If you can square that particular circle then your as wise as you obviously believe you are yourself.

 

[judge]

I'm never going to give you an example you agree with and I'm obviously never going to match LSF's apparent wisdom. So its really a big meh.

Be interested in what Warnock has ever done that makes him anything other than average though. If you can square that particular circle then your as wise as you obviously believe you are yourself.

you only have to look at where this club was when he took over and where it is now he has left to answer that

 

[supermorgs]

Warnock was out of his depth in the transfer market that season.

Players signed by NW for 1 million plus, Jan 2006 to Jan 2007:

Ade Akinbiyi - 1.75m
Geoff Horsfield - 1.2m
Rob Hulse - 2.2m
Claude Davis - 2.5m
Luton Shelton - 1.85m
Matthew Kilgallon - 1.75m

I'd forgotten just how bad it was...

come 1/2 of those if 6 were good buys

with Hulse being our top scorer that season, Shelton was great player with good pace & i belive he would developed into a stiker & he has gone to play in the champions league. & Kilgallon has proved he was a great CB

 

[DuncDisorderly]

You boys can argue the leg off a donkey, but I know the exact moment.

It was before Man City on Boxing Day.

Mrs D said to me 'Do you want to wear your lucky orange pants for the game today dear', and I said 'Nope, these have got another day or two in them.' prancing round the bedroom like a cheap tart displaying my manly loins in an old blue pair. 'It'll be reight.'

We lost. The January transfer window was a disaster, and it all started to unravel from there.

Oh what a fool I was, and I'm so, so sorry...

 

[sitwell]

Warnock got us relegated, not the fans. Hence Warnock fucked up, as many thought he may well do. When it comes to the big matches Warnock always makes the issue about himself. If memory served me right he pissed Windass off before the Play Off final (which we lost). He just cant keep his fucking big ego to himself. As I say, when its good, its always Warnock, when its bad, its always someone else. Sums the bastard up in a nutshell. Average and not fit to lace Dave Bassetts boots.

I genuinly find it quite sad and embarrassing that the club I support has 'supporters' like you. A pathetic pathetic post from someone with a terrible memory of the situation the club was in when he took over and the fall of the club since he left.

 

[Bladesway]

I genuinly find it quite sad and embarrassing that the club I support has 'supporters' like you. A pathetic pathetic post from someone with a terrible memory of the situation the club was in when he took over and the fall of the club since he left.

When he arrived we were in the Championship, when he left, we were in the Championship. Cock on pal.

I wonder where the site stands these days on personal abuse, anyone care to interject?

 

[LSF]

I'm never going to give you an example you agree with and I'm obviously never going to match LSF's apparent wisdom. So its really a big meh.

Be interested in what Warnock has ever done that makes him anything other than average though. If you can square that particular circle then your as wise as you obviously believe you are yourself.

Err...where did I say I was wise Mr Bladesway? you're just thrashing out wildly now mate over an argument in which the facts are heavily weighted against you. Keep blundering on, its amusing now

"I wonder where the site stands these days on personal abuse, anyone care to interject?"

Jeez, it gets even more amusing!

 

[oldblade]

When he arrived we were in the Championship, when he left, we were in the Championship. Cock on pal.

I wonder where the site stands these days on personal abuse, anyone care to interject?

When he left we were in the relegation zone of what is now the championship, averaged around 13,500 attendances and had very recently lost at home to Port Vale in front of less than 9,000. When he left we had just finished 18th in the premier league and were averaging over 30,000.

I would say that represents significant improvement.

 

[Bladesway]

the wiser ones amongst us.

Amusing indeed. No thrashing just stating my view which so far as I am aware I am entitled to. Warnock did well to a point, but that is my point.

---------- Post added at 07:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:55 PM ----------

When he left we were in the relegation zone of what is now the championship, averaged around 13,500 attendances and had very recently lost at home to Port Vale in front of less than 9,000. When he left we had just finished 18th in the premier league and were averaging over 30,000.

I would say that represents significant improvement.

Good, I'm pleased for you. My definition of improvement would be being in a different division to the one he found us in. And the mere technicality of "he left us 18th in the Premiership" shows how hollow the argument for him is.

P.S I still havent seen a good argument against my statement that the rot started with Warnock by the way.

 

[LSF]

Amusing indeed. No thrashing just stating my view which so far as I am aware I am entitled to. Warnock did well to a point, but that is my point.

Still can't see where I said I was wise? (I'm not by the way :-0) Of course you are entitled to your view sir, and I'm entitled to comment on your view. My view is you just don't like the bloke and it clouds your judgement. Amen.

 

[judge]

Amusing indeed. No thrashing just stating my view which so far as I am aware I am entitled to. Warnock did well to a point, but that is my point.

---------- Post added at 07:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:55 PM ----------



Good, I'm pleased for you. My definition of improvement would be being in a different division to the one he found us in. And the mere technicality of "he left us 18th in the Premiership" shows how hollow the argument for him is.

P.S I still havent seen a good argument against my statement that the rot started with Warnock by the way.

you are right the rot started when warnock left