Where are we at this point in time? 20/07/2015.

[Woodwardfan]

I'm not ITK, nothing like that, but I reckon we are positioned as follows:

The manager has inherited an expensive squad for this division. It is a large squad in player numbers and has a heavy wage bill for this league. We spent some £2.5m last January plus big wages on a total of 5 recruits in an effort to gain promotion last season, a gamble in fact.

At his Fans Meeting the other night the manger said we probably had 6/7th from the best budget in the league. He is not a novice, he knows those things.

We have a very able squad which is capable of taking on teams from much higher echalons in various cup games. We are a highly talented squad in fact.

However we are an unbalanced squad. We are small in height and we have insufficient leaders on the pitch. We have insufficient "game- changers".

It appears our new manager does not have a fortune to spend and has to manage what he has got there already. He may choose to sell one or maybe two before he buys.

Do we trust him? We have no choice!!

 

[Barney]

My personal opinion on the whole situation regarding signings and the budget as it stands is not a very positive one. However, we have to trust NA's judgement, as that's the reason we hired him in the first place.

 

[Tyler Durden]

I'm going to tread carefully here at the risk of being labelled a negative bastard.

But wasn't the whole point of McCabes deal with the Saudis two years ago to attract actual investment?
A reasonable proportion of which could be translated into a decent transfer budget?

If we can't spend enough to comfortably get out of the third-tier then it brings into question the whole point of seeking "investment".

 

[robbiez666]

I think we can get out of this league with only 2/3 incomings with luck around injuries and improvement of form. I think he'll use the loan market and we'll spend very little in terms of money. We desperately need a pacey CB though. We could struggle by with just one coming in, but there's no pace there at the moment.

The biggest issue is the size of the squad and getting rid of players. We're unlikely to get money for the fringe/deadweight and I very much doubt we'll be paying up contracts again.

The most worrying aspect is that I swear the Prince was committed to spending money on players and yet we've spent very little. After the re-investment of the Harry money, there's not been much more. And whilst we will have a big wage bill, it's unlikely to be as big as it was a couple of years ago. Indeed, FFS hasn't been brought up for ages as an excuse.

When I mean money, I'm talking about less that was spent on Brayford on 2-4 players, which should have been done last year.

I'm not worried yet. If nothing has changed in two weeks then I will be.

 

[Dalelane01]

A new season the same challenge.hopes again high for the season as they should be. the differance a positive manager proven at this level. in the past made some good signings he had very little budget with scunthorpe look what he did there. clough made some good signings .what was missing was good man management adkins is just the man to resolve this issue without falling out with players and will get the best out of the current squad been said in other posts loan signings could be his main way of getting players in the old saying rome wasnt built in a day give the man a chance begining of season not here yet brsmall lane could be that rome (got carried away there)

 

[Living In a Fantasy World]

Excuses already incoming... just wonderful

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

I'm going to tread carefully here at the risk of being labelled a negative bastard.

But wasn't the whole point of McCabes deal with the Saudis two years ago to attract actual investment?
A reasonable proportion of which could be translated into a decent transfer budget?

If we can't spend enough to comfortably get out of the third-tier then it brings into question the whole point of seeking "investment".

£750K should get you three 3rd division centre halves.

 

[Bladesway]

I think as usual people are reading way too much into the Q and A given by Adkins. I put myself in his position. I would downplay our financial situation and our budgets as much as possible. This lessens the chances of someone adding half a million onto the price of a player when you go in. Of course it also downplays the massive expectation. Promise low but aim high.

 

[grafikhaus]

[QUOTE="robbiez666, post: 793731, member: 2667"The most worrying aspect is that I swear the Prince was committed to spending money on players and yet we've spent very little. After the re-investment of the Harry money, there's not been much more. And whilst we will have a big wage bill, it's unlikely to be as big as it was a couple of years ago. Indeed, FFS hasn't been brought up for ages as an excuse.[/QUOTE]

Possibly the reason the Prince doesn't want to push the boat out is...

[QUOTE="robbiez666, post: 793731, member: 2667"The biggest issue is the size of the squad and getting rid of players. We're unlikely to get money for the fringe/deadweight and I very much doubt we'll be paying up contracts again.[/QUOTE]

Clough was given money and he wasted a lot of it. It's hardly surprising if the Prince wants to see how NA performs before committing large amounts of cash. It's been our problem for years - employing useless managers with absolutely no track record of success (or even being a manager...) seeing them piss the money up against a wall and setting us back years.

Anyway, we've seen enough of this level to know that spending large amounts does not guarantee success. You need physicality, committment and fitness and you're almost there.

 

[Woodwardfan]

£750K should get you three 3rd division centre halves.

It's another 3 contracts though (say 9 years wages) on top of the 36 we already have.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I think as usual people are reading way too much into the Q and A given by Adkins. I put myself in his position. I would downplay our financial situation and our budgets as much as possible. This lessens the chances of someone adding half a million onto the price of a player when you go in. Of course it also downplays the massive expectation. Promise low but aim high.

Good points but as ever there are a number of audiences and the owner would be pissed off with him if he was downplays their level of investment and commitment to the club in the eyes of fans.

 

[Kenilworth]

A new season the same challenge.hopes again high for the season as they should be. the differance a positive manager proven at this level. in the past made some good signings he had very little budget with scunthorpe look what he did there. clough made some good signings .what was missing was good man management adkins is just the man to resolve this issue without falling out with players and will get the best out of the current squad been said in other posts loan signings could be his main way of getting players in the old saying rome wasnt built in a day give the man a chance begining of season not here yet brsmall lane could be that rome (got carried away there)

Nero or Caesar?

 

[Bladesway]

Good points but as ever there are a number of audiences and the owner would be pissed off with him if he was downplays their level of investment and commitment to the club in the eyes of fans.

Maybe but I would be amazed if he hadn't been briefed before he stood up and talked.

 

[raul]

Why would he need to lower expectations? Mine couldn't be lower if it stole dinner money from disabled orphans.

 

[dingledog]

.......... We are a highly talented squad in fact.

However we are an unbalanced squad. We are small in height and we have insufficient leaders on the pitch.

!

I think we are a squad of journeyman midgets and I have to question the highly talented. In my humble opinion, our previous manager did not buy well.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Maybe but I would be amazed if he hadn't been briefed before he stood up and talked.

I agree and the man is not inexperienced, also he will have anticipated the question.

I've just listened to his answer again. He waffled at first re managing prudently, there has to be a budget, new players have to be the right ones and not just any number of them, Prince coming over, we've got to push the budget as far as we can to compete for players who will add to what we've got, up to us to manage the budget.

At that point I asked him if he was confident of getting promotion on this budget. I think he pretended not to hear that bit but the presenter repeated it.

At that stage he said: in his opinion there are 6 or 7 clubs with bigger budgets than us, some clubs choose to go for it at a certain point in time by injecting extra cash in the hope of achieving promotion before the cash dries up, with us we have a long term plan to get to the Premier League and we have to have that in mind and take it one step at a time.

From all that I take it that our budget has levelled this year after the expense of the January transfers, in other words we spent this season's budget on Brayford, Done, Coutts, Freeman and the S. Davies loan. In addition to that we had the expense of the Clough and his 6 man team contract settlements. There had been a lot of money spent before that and we have a very big squad.

In other words our club is " not going for it at this point in time" by throwing much extra cash at it. I think that's what Adkins is saying, not that our continuing wage bill is 7th or 8th, rather our new money available. Therefore he has to wheel and deal and manage his budget prudently.

 

[Kenilworth]

My personal opinion on the whole situation regarding signings and the budget as it stands is not a very positive one. However, we have to trust NA's judgement, as that's the reason we hired him in the first place.

Yep a man who has worked with peanuts in the kitty before and let's not forget a man that was out of work at the time of the appointment.
What were his options, realistically?

Prem? Unlikely since Southampton deemed him NGE so why would another Prem club take hm on when they can go for a fancy Dan non English manager?

Championship?
Sacked from Reading
Leeds = basket case
Blackpool = the asylum
Tuna Ladyboys = committee and fancy Dan
Any others may be short for cash too.

Sheffield United
Win - win for him
Perennial under achievers - no one can pin failure on one man
Spunked a load of cash in JTW so limited funds to play with - not his fault
Squad that should be performing better but lacks height and strength for the division they are in - if no new recruits then can be blamed for same fate as last season?
If it fails then it's the club malaise (and the fans fault)
Allowed to bring in his whole back team staff - secured jobs for the lads.
Key signings to date have been a) the scout that can identify freebies and low cost players to compile a squad for a club on subsistence budgets and b) a coach that can get blood out of a stone. Good moves in our circumstances but maybe they are the marquee siginings of the summer?

Seems the only rumours we are linked with are:
Out - Murphy, Done, Adams - the only players that could attract a significant fee
In - strikers when we all know CB is the issue. Now that's either because he will have to replace an outgoing player swiftly or injuries are forcing him to cover this position first and make do with the rest.

Actually signed - a midfielder who is no better than we had already (not the dominant force with height and tenacity we desperately need)
If Bash and Wallace are the central mid pair and Wallace stays fit all season then that might be ok but that is a pretty big gamble that never paid off last season.

I'm patiently watching it all pan out.
Lowering my expectations day after day.

Plucky United competing for a play off position. Yay.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

It's another 3 contracts though (say 9 years wages) on top of the 36 we already have.

But we can move 3 players on at £150/£250 each so outlay is cancelled out and wages don't change much.

If we have the investment move them out on frees.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Yep a man who has worked with peanuts in the kitty before and let's not forget a man that was out of work at the time of the appointment.
What were his options, realistically?

Prem? Unlikely since Southampton deemed him NGE so why would another Prem club take hm on when they can go for a fancy Dan non English manager?

Championship?
Sacked from Reading
Leeds = basket case
Blackpool = the asylum
Tuna Ladyboys = committee and fancy Dan
Any others may be short for cash too.

Sheffield United
Win - win for him
Perennial under achievers - no one can pin failure on one man
Spunked a load of cash in JTW so limited funds to play with - not his fault
Squad that should be performing better but lacks height and strength for the division they are in - if no new recruits then can be blamed for same fate as last season?
If it fails then it's the club malaise (and the fans fault)
Allowed to bring in his whole back team staff - secured jobs for the lads.
Key signings to date have been a) the scout that can identify freebies and low cost players to compile a squad for a club on subsistence budgets and b) a coach that can get blood out of a stone. Good moves in our circumstances but maybe they are the marquee siginings of the summer?

Seems the only rumours we are linked with are:
Out - Murphy, Done, Adams - the only players that could attract a significant fee
In - strikers when we all know CB is the issue. Now that's either because he will have to replace an outgoing player swiftly or injuries are forcing him to cover this position first and make do with the rest.

Actually signed - a midfielder who is no better than we had already (not the dominant force with height and tenacity we desperately need)
If Bash and Wallace are the central mid pair and Wallace stays fit all season then that might be ok but that is a pretty big gamble that never paid off last season.

I'm patiently watching it all pan out.
Lowering my expectations day after day.

Plucky United competing for a play off position. Yay.

Adkins will have prepared for the Q & A and he made a point of how impressive both McEveley and Collins had been since he arrived at the club. When asked about central defence he mentioned them again. He also mentioned a chat with Basham about his best position and his favourite position and the lad had said he didn't mind. He covered Kennedy's injury and he said McGahey's future had to be plotted either within the club or out on loan depending how he shapes up.

In managing his budget I suspect he's hoping he can get away with just one new signing or maybe even none

 

[Woodwardfan]

But we can move 3 players on at £150/£250 each so outlay is cancelled out and wages don't change much.

If we have the investment move them out on frees.

That assumes another club want the players and are prepared to pay their level of wages. There are a number of our current crop who will be overpaid for what they are and that does nobody any good if they are stuck here.

 

[AnotherBlade]

Yep a man who has worked with peanuts in the kitty before and let's not forget a man that was out of work at the time of the appointment.
What were his options, realistically?

Prem? Unlikely since Southampton deemed him NGE so why would another Prem club take hm on when they can go for a fancy Dan non English manager?

Championship?
Sacked from Reading
Leeds = basket case
Blackpool = the asylum
Tuna Ladyboys = committee and fancy Dan
Any others may be short for cash too.

Sheffield United
Win - win for him
Perennial under achievers - no one can pin failure on one man
Spunked a load of cash in JTW so limited funds to play with - not his fault
Squad that should be performing better but lacks height and strength for the division they are in - if no new recruits then can be blamed for same fate as last season?
If it fails then it's the club malaise (and the fans fault)
Allowed to bring in his whole back team staff - secured jobs for the lads.
Key signings to date have been a) the scout that can identify freebies and low cost players to compile a squad for a club on subsistence budgets and b) a coach that can get blood out of a stone. Good moves in our circumstances but maybe they are the marquee siginings of the summer?

Seems the only rumours we are linked with are:
Out - Murphy, Done, Adams - the only players that could attract a significant fee
In - strikers when we all know CB is the issue. Now that's either because he will have to replace an outgoing player swiftly or injuries are forcing him to cover this position first and make do with the rest.

Actually signed - a midfielder who is no better than we had already (not the dominant force with height and tenacity we desperately need)
If Bash and Wallace are the central mid pair and Wallace stays fit all season then that might be ok but that is a pretty big gamble that never paid off last season.

I'm patiently watching it all pan out.
Lowering my expectations day after day.

Plucky United competing for a play off position. Yay.

Christ! Negativity is taken to new extremes! I question how you motivate yourself to function day to day if this outlook extends beyond football.

 

[Dalelane01]

Nero or Caesar?

Good one cant think of an answer to that

 

[AlienBlade]

It's another 3 contracts though (say 9 years wages) on top of the 36 we already have.

a third if not more of those 36, are kids who are probably on less than £1k a week.

if you count the players who may have a significant role next season even as a "back up" then you actually end up down to mid 20's for the squad.

1, Mark Howard
2, John Brayford
3, Bob Harris
4, Neill Collins
5, Harrison McGahay
6, James Wallace
7, Ryan Flynn
8, Chris Basham
9, Matt Done
10, Michael Higdon
11, Jamie Murphy


1, George Long
2, Craig Alcock
3, Jay McEverley
4, Keiron Freeman
5, Terry Kennedy
6, Paul Coutts
7, Jamal Cambell-Ryce
8, Stefan Scougall
9, Mark McNulty
10, Jose Baxter
11, Martyn Woolford


1, Che Adams
2, Louis Reed
3, Diego De Girolamo
4, Florent Cuvelier

of the above 26 3 are either currently injured/injury prone, Brayford, Wallace & Flo (leaving us with just 23, and 4 are kids (Che, Diego, Louis & George) that wont play any where near 46 games, which leaves just 19 core players.... I've left our the likes of Dimaio, Keiran Wallace, Calvert-Lewin, Khan etcas I dont see them featureing more than half a dozen games if that. so when people state we have 36 players it makes me laugh as the many will just play their trade in the development team as they are "ones for the future"

 

[Woodwardfan]

It's another 3 contracts though (say 9 years wages) on top of the 36 we already have.

a third if not more of those 36, are kids who are probably on less than £1k a week.

if you count the players who may have a significant role next season even as a "back up" then you actually end up down to mid 20's for the squad.

1, Mark Howard
2, John Brayford
3, Bob Harris
4, Neill Collins
5, Harrison McGahay
6, James Wallace
7, Ryan Flynn
8, Chris Basham
9, Matt Done
10, Michael Higdon
11, Jamie Murphy


1, George Long
2, Craig Alcock
3, Jay McEverley
4, Keiron Freeman
5, Terry Kennedy
6, Paul Coutts
7, Jamal Cambell-Ryce
8, Stefan Scougall
9, Mark McNulty
10, Jose Baxter
11, Martyn Woolford


1, Che Adams
2, Louis Reed
3, Diego De Girolamo
4, Florent Cuvelier

of the above 26 3 are either currently injured/injury prone, Brayford, Wallace & Flo (leaving us with just 23, and 4 are kids (Che, Diego, Louis & George) that wont play any where near 46 games, which leaves just 19 core players.... I've left our the likes of Dimaio, Keiran Wallace, Calvert-Lewin, Khan etcas I dont see them featureing more than half a dozen games if that. so when people state we have 36 players it makes me laugh as the many will just play their trade in the development team as they are "ones for the future"

That's a heavy earning squad for League 1; injured players still get paid.

That was the context of the quote above. However your point about core players is a good one, though I would argue Reed and Adams and even Diego have to be first team squad players as they deserve playing time to aid their development. Long should either play or go out on loan IMO.

 

[finlaytheblade]

I agree and the man is not inexperienced, also he will have anticipated the question.

I've just listened to his answer again. He waffled at first re managing prudently, there has to be a budget, new players have to be the right ones and not just any number of them, Prince coming over, we've got to push the budget as far as we can to compete for players who will add to what we've got, up to us to manage the budget.

At that point I asked him if he was confident of getting promotion on this budget. I think he pretended not to hear that bit but the presenter repeated it.

At that stage he said: in his opinion there are 6 or 7 clubs with bigger budgets than us, some clubs choose to go for it at a certain point in time by injecting extra cash in the hope of achieving promotion before the cash dries up, with us we have a long term plan to get to the Premier League and we have to have that in mind and take it one step at a time.

From all that I take it that our budget has levelled this year after the expense of the January transfers, in other words we spent this season's budget on Brayford, Done, Coutts, Freeman and the S. Davies loan. In addition to that we had the expense of the Clough and his 6 man team contract settlements. There had been a lot of money spent before that and we have a very big squad.

In other words our club is " not going for it at this point in time" by throwing much extra cash at it. I think that's what Adkins is saying, not that our continuing wage bill is 7th or 8th, rather our new money available. Therefore he has to wheel and deal and manage his budget prudently.

Good post woody I agree with you %100 investment is there as the money spent so far shows Adkins would,nt have taken the job if he wasn't supported but he hopefully is a wise man and will not be pushed into panic buys.we have good squad somewhat unbalanced. thanks to cloughy we have to trust him to get it riggt

 

[AlienBlade]

That's a heavy earning squad for League 1; injured players still get paid.

That was the context of the quote above. However your point about core players is a good one, though I would argue Reed and Adams and even Diego have to be first team squad players as they deserve playing time to aid their development. Long should either play or go out on loan IMO.

we probabaly only have 26 players who are on "proper" conrtacts, and earn more than your average joe working in the ticket office for example) and some of those 26 will only be earning just over this figure (the likes of Reed and Che K Wallace, etc.) most of the "big earners" from the Championship days have now left I think Doyle was probably the last one... maybe Collins.

Injured players are often insured, so when injured it's not the club that pays the wages, (or at leasts thats what I understood)

and that why I placed those players (Che etc.) in the third cateogory, I dont think they will be 46 game players, but I expect they will play more than half a dozen (I suspect they will play around 20-30 in all honestly)

we dont have as many "high for this league" earners and when you consider other teams Wigan (coming down) had 31 listed players last season only 2 of which were under 20... Preston (went up) had 26 players last season who played more than 10 games, plus those 8 who played less. they will also head a large number of players.

 

[Groucho Blade]

Don't forget Dominic Calvert-Lewin. He's impressing NA and he scored the goal against Ilkeston. He could play a big part this season.

 

[Woodwardfan]

we probabaly only have 26 players who are on "proper" conrtacts, and earn more than your average joe working in the ticket office for example) and some of those 26 will only be earning just over this figure (the likes of Reed and Che K Wallace, etc.) most of the "big earners" from the Championship days have now left I think Doyle was probably the last one... maybe Collins.

Injured players are often insured, so when injured it's not the club that pays the wages, (or at leasts thats what I understood)

and that why I placed those players (Che etc.) in the third cateogory, I dont think they will be 46 game players, but I expect they will play more than half a dozen (I suspect they will play around 20-30 in all honestly)

we dont have as many "high for this league" earners and when you consider other teams Wigan (coming down) had 31 listed players last season only 2 of which were under 20... Preston (went up) had 26 players last season who played more than 10 games, plus those 8 who played less. they will also head a large number of players.

Good chat and discussion.

Clough stated a squad of 22 was ideal so 26 is a lot in fact and we certainly need at least 3 new players. As for high wages, what about Brayford, Done, Coutts.

I've never imagined that wages of injured players are paid by insurance, more for career ending injuries, but that's not to say it is not the case. I'd hate to have to prove a claim and wonder what the conditions are. Not a lot of good to the club who still have the contract commitment, maybe could take on a loan though.

BTW Scunthorpe have signed three of those seasoned players from Preston who played loads of games last season, two are central defenders too.

 

[Esablade]

I think we're in a decent place Pre-Season to get off to a good start.
The squad should know each, new manager, new ideas and new positive approach hopefully.

I haven't listened back to the interview but the main bit I remembered was him being asked if we're currently good enough for top two...to which the answer was no.

I took this to mean we'll be buying throughout the season...loans and players who'll be hoping to get snapped up by championship teams but won't...

 

[AlienBlade]

Good chat and discussion.

Clough stated a squad of 22 was ideal so 26 is a lot in fact and we certainly need at least 3 new players. As for high wages, what about Brayford, Done, Coutts.

I've never imagined that wages of injured players are paid by insurance, more for career ending injuries, but that's not to say it is not the case. I'd hate to have to prove a claim and wonder what the conditions are. Not a lot of good to the club who still have the contract commitment, maybe could take on a loan though.

BTW Scunthorpe have signed three of those seasoned players from Preston who played loads of games last season, two are central defenders too.

what Clough actually said was a "CORE SQUAD of 22 was ideal" in truth only 24 players played more than 10 league games and only 16 played more than 20, so technically speaking he actually had that there or there abouts,

Brayford was well known to have taken a huge paycut as he felt the football was more important than the wage as we helped him out when he needed us more, Done came from another league 1 team so I doubt it will have taken huge wages to prise him away. and coutts was a player who clough knew so i doubt was a huge earners, as he probably come to play for clough (but as we will never know the individual wages its all speculation.

I honestly cant see any of the current squad being on more than £6k a week.

and its always good to have a reasoned chat and discussion with a fellow blade.