When did we last have a better team ?

[Pinchy]

Agree that half decent players in the Championship did run rings around Montgomery.
But his 1 season in the PL was his highlight and he did more than OK.
Top class players in the PL seemed to struggle. He was like a Yorkshire Terrier snapping at their heels and they hated it.
There’s the famous quote from Frank Lampard Jnr, who said Monty was one of the toughest opponents he’d faced.

It’s a famous non-quote. He never said it.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

I’m talking about the pleasure of watching the beautiful game played properly. You appear to be unable to appreciate that. You should follow a Sunday League team, preferably in S2. That would be fitting.

You have your standards; I have mine. I’m content.

You know nothing about which teams I enjoy watching or what type of football I appreciate.

It's a shame that your closed-mindedness and general pigheaded attitude has led you to create this myth of 'hoof ball' that you constantly try to pin on people.

As I've said it before, it's all in your head.

 

[Pinchy]

You know nothing about which teams I enjoy watching or what type of football I appreciate.

It's a shame that your closed-mindedness and general pigheaded attitude has led you to create this myth of 'hoof ball' that you constantly try to pin on people.

As I've said it before, it's all in your head.

In my head are Pele, Platini, Cruyff and Beckenbauer. Charlton, Best, Currie and Liam Brady. Which scruffy ragamuffin shadow-chasers occupy your thoughts?

Just to give you a clue about teams that win matches: They pass and move. They take care of the ball rather than aimlessly getting rid of it. They don’t treat the football like a red hot coal. They squeeze the space and thus the life out of the opposition on the odd occasion they lose possession. They don’t deploy the tactic of making the game a succession of fifty-fifty balls by way of aimless punts. They pass, pass and pass again. They are patient. They create openings. You may have recognised it in our recent games at Swindon (17 passes) and Bolton (16 passes). It’s a delight to watch. It’s proper football. It’s the right way. Two of our manager’s favourite phrases.

You prefer playground and park standards. That’s entirely your prerogative but I sort of pity you.

As the Prince of Denmark said:

“There are more things in heaven and earth, Nuddy,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”

 

[georgebernardshaw]

This is the best footballing side we've ever had.
Greater individual skill, better passing skills, better movement on and off the ball.
Only thing we're missing is the Woody thunderbolt shot ,
but overall, this team's the best.

1971

 

[BettingBlade]

Think the closest we’ve got to a comparison is the Cardiff game at home last season. We had them on the rack for the majority of the game but you could just never write a Warnock side off. Especially those we had at the Lane.

Thing is Warnocks management style has never changed. Pick up decent players who have lost their way a little bit and build a squad that would die for each other and him. Warnock sides don’t have to look pretty, although we did at times that 05-06 season, because he finds an effective way of playing with what he’s got and that’s good management.

Weirdly enough, I think last seasons squad would have been beaten by Warnocks promotion side but this seasons team would probably beat them.

I suppose the truth is both the current side and Warnock’s side are excellent teams and tbh even if they played 10 games against each other the head to heads would be pretty close

Warnock's team was very much substance over style and the advantage they had over this squad is that sometimes we have been guilty of being a little naive, something Warnock teams very rarely are (admittedly we seemed to have learned from that so far this season). But this current crop are just so much better to watch in terms of the football we play and how we break down the opposition.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Agree that half decent players in the Championship did run rings around Montgomery.
But his 1 season in the PL was his highlight and he did more than OK.
Top class players in the PL seemed to struggle. He was like a Yorkshire Terrier snapping at their heels and they hated it.
There’s the famous quote from Frank Lampard Jnr, who said Monty was one of the toughest opponents he’d faced.

No they didn't. As I said he was limited, but he wasn't cannon fodder for the division's best. Off the top of my head he man marked Lee Clarke out of two games v. Fulham in '00, when he was a level above anything in the division & was dictating play against every team they played against.

Neither did top table players; this is from 2007.......

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...t-Mourinho-sees-the-way-clear-to-Wembley.html

I suppose the journalist meant 'had the piss taken out of him', but wrote 'expertly marshalled' instead. Or perhaps this one from 2005......

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2356076/Cole-kick-keeps-Arsenal-in-the-hunt.html

I suppose the journalist meant 'had rings run around him', but wrote 'In the centre, Vieira found himself stalked by red-and-white striped men, particularly the excellent Nick Montgomery.' instead.

Reports like that have got people currently w*nking over david brooks.

There's been plenty of two bob shithouse chancers play for united in the last 20 years or so, Nick Montgomery wasn't one.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

In my head are Pele, Platini, Cruyff and Beckenbauer. Charlton, Best, Currie and Liam Brady. Which scruffy ragamuffin shadow-chasers occupy your thoughts?

Just to give you a clue about teams that win matches: They pass and move. They take care of the ball rather than aimlessly getting rid of it. They don’t treat the football like a red hot coal. They squeeze the space and thus the life out of the opposition on the odd occasion they lose possession. They don’t deploy the tactic of making the game a succession of fifty-fifty balls by way of aimless punts. They pass, pass and pass again. They are patient. They create openings. You may have recognised it in our recent games at Swindon (17 passes) and Bolton (16 passes). It’s a delight to watch. It’s proper football. It’s the right way. Two of our manager’s favourite phrases.

You prefer playground and park standards. That’s entirely your prerogative but I sort of pity you.

As the Prince of Denmark said:

“There are more things in heaven and earth, Nuddy,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”

You really need to stop telling people what they do and don't enjoy. It's a very bad habit you've developed.

And you don't need to try to explain rudimentary football tactics to me. I've played more hours of football than you've had hot dinners.

As for your final quote, I prefer to put it another way, as the late great Michael Hordern once did.

"There are more things in philosophy, than are dreamt of in heaven and earth."

 

[Harrisblade]

1971

They were the next best!
Obviously a different era - a bit more muscular and 'up and at 'em'
But they didn't have the skill sets that each and every one of the current players have and although stats weren't around, we could never have dominated possession the way the current bunch do

 

[georgebernardshaw]

They were the next best!
Obviously a different era - a bit more muscular and 'up and at 'em'
But they didn't have the skill sets that each and every one of the current players have and although stats weren't around, we could never have dominated possession the way the current bunch do

Let’s agree to disagree, but no-one in the present squad has sat on the ball yet.....

....whilst beating Arsenal 5-0

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Platini had Bonini. Cruyff had Neeskens. Beckenbauer had Schwarzenbeck. Charlton had Stiles. Best had Stiles. Currie had Hockey.

 

[Pinchy]

You really need to stop telling people what they do and don't enjoy. It's a very bad habit you've developed.

And you don't need to try to explain rudimentary football tactics to me. I've played more hours of football than you've had hot dinners.

As for your final quote, I prefer to put it another way, as the late great Michael Hordern once did.

"There are more things in philosophy, than are dreamt of in heaven and earth."

When you show the slightest understanding of the game, your conspicuous need for my services will diminish.

As for your hours of football, I've probably got a day for every one of your hours. Not the wisest argument for a young tyro to advance when your correspondent has a great deal more experience of just about everything than you have.

Neither philosophy nor dreams have any interface with the grotesque, mind-numbing, aimless hoof that is the limit of your football understanding. That's how the conversation between Hamlet and Horatio would have continued had the Bard consulted me.

 

[tomtheblade]

The best football is the one that wins the most football matches. You don't get any points for possession or completed passes.

In your original reply you stated that Warnocks 05/06 team would wipe the floor with our current side, which would indicate you're talking about a match between the two.

However in subsequent replies you've defended this notion not based on the abilities of the teams, but instead based on the achievements of the teams (warnocks won promotion to the prem, current did not).

But these are two separate things.

Unless of course you want to say that superior achievements of a team in a particular season always indicate they'd win in a vs match.. but then I'd ask you who would win between Preston's 'invincibles' from 1889 who won the 1st division undefeated, vs the current Man City side, who did not. You could substitute any number of teams into this equation as well.

I'm not saying you're wrong. There's reason to believe that the 05/06 team may beat our current side (I stress may), just that your argument for your position may be flawed.

 

[blade53]

The team under Spackman with Deane, Fjortoft , Dane Whitehouse , Borbokis , etc would be pretty close. We were bombing the league on the way to certain promotion till McDonald & his henchman Charles Green decided it would be a good idea to sell Deanno & Fjortoft on the same day, Other players were sold , we lost Whitehouse to that horrific injury, Spackman resigned to be replaced by Steve Thompson, & we finished up scraping into the playoffs where we lost to Sunderland.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

When you show the slightest understanding of the game, your conspicuous need for my services will diminish.

As for your hours of football, I've probably got a day for every one of your hours. Not the wisest argument for a young tyro to advance when your correspondent has a great deal more experience of just about everything than you have.

Neither philosophy nor dreams have any interface with the grotesque, mind-numbing, aimless hoof that is the limit of your football understanding. That's how the conversation between Hamlet and Horatio would have continued had the Bard consulted me.

You patronising arse.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

For consistency over a long period the 2 semi finals/Wolves debacle team is still above this one for me.

Ask again in May

Key word here is “team”.

In terms of flair players, the early 1970’s team “The Woody/Currie era”, was the best I’ve seen. And it wasn’t just about Woody and Currie. Hodgkinson, Badger, Hemsley, Colquhon, Addison, Eddy, Hockey, Salmons, Reece, Dearden, Scullion. These were all exceptional players. (I bet I miissed some!).

In terms of average players busting a gut, it was the Basset era for me. And I would single out Deane, Agana, Hodges, as being not average but exceptional, but the others were not so, but the sum of the parts was greater.

In terms of making silk purses out of sows ears, you have to give Warnock’s teams the credit. He could turn misfits into maestros.

But I come back to the word “team”.

There has never been a better “team” than the one you are seeing right now. There have been better individual players in a team. But Wilder has eclipsed all before him imo because he’s playing the best “team” football I’ve ever seen from the lads in red n white.

I’ve never seen us so composed and professional.

 

[Pinchy]

The team under Spackman with Deane, Fjortoft , Dane Whitehouse , Borbokis , etc would be pretty close. We were bombing the league on the way to certain promotion till McDonald & his henchman Charles Green decided it would be a good idea to sell Deanno & Fjortoft on the same day, Other players were sold , we lost Whitehouse to that horrific injury, Spackman resigned to be replaced by Steve Thompson, & we finished up scraping into the playoffs where we lost to Sunderland.

Kendall bought Fjortoft. McDonald and Green signed all Spackman’s players including Deane, Dellas and Borbokis. As I’ve said many times Spackman hadn’t a clue as is evidenced from his short stays at Barnsley and Millwall before football realised he was utterly useless and didn’t trouble him further.

 

[Pinchy]

You patronising arse.

He started it. I don’t know why. Rather like a boxer who can’t resist taking one more punch...

 

[Pinchy]

Platini had Bonini. Cruyff had Neeskens. Beckenbauer had Schwarzenbeck. Charlton had Stiles. Best had Stiles. Currie had Hockey.

I’ve told you before. Don’t be ashamed if you like a tiny bit of hoof. Enough dancing around it.

Be loud; Be proud. Be long; Be high.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Key word here is “team”.

There has never been a better “team” than the one you are seeing right now..

Exactly.....it’s weird....in the past we had flair players and exciting individuals.
In the Wilder era only possibly David Brooke’s has fit that discription.

It’s a really bizarre situation in that we have hardly any stand out players
However they are ALL comfortable on the ball and they ALL capable of making simple passes.
As a team they make the game look so simple. They are the best TEAM we’ve have playing as a team.
Wilder hardly ever changes his tactics and plays the same style home and away but opposition teams still can’t stop us.

 

[Harrisblade]

I’ve told you before. Don’t be ashamed if you like a tiny bit of hoof. Enough dancing around it.

Be loud; Be proud. Be long; Be high.

But you are still a patronising arse.

 

[I should coco]

In my head are Pele, Platini, Cruyff and Beckenbauer. Charlton, Best, Currie and Liam Brady.

Pele - half decent, I'll give you that one.

Platinum- snivelling diving French cheat.
Now banned for extra curricular cheating.

Cruyff- Horse faced Dutch wanker who stole the Basham turn (Soton in LC) a few years early. Made to look good in a team of geniuses.

Beckenbauer- Strolled slowly out of defence before hoofing it up to Gerd Muller, who invariably scored. A poor man's Bashambauer .

Charlton- Wor' Bobby was a half decent midfielder with a shot. More famous for a hair style than his football.

Currie- God

Brady - Had a nice left foot chip. No stamina and couldn't tackle to save his life.

Any more 'heroes?

 

[Carlton Blade]

Football is there to be enjoyed in all its forms by anyone. Nobody should score points for enjoying one style over another.

Some people put results above all. Some people want beautiful football and don't care about trophies. Some people want an afternoon out with their mates and the team to try hard. That's the beauty of football, it's all there to be analysed, debated and enjoyed (Or not). But ultimately it's whatever you want to make of it

 

[ReeceofBDTBL]

My enduring memory of Warnock will always be his last team selection against Wigan,

Kenny

Jagielka Morgan Kilgallon Geary

Gillespie Montgomery Tonge Quinn

Nade Stead

Considering Kilgallon and Quinn weren't really any good until a good couple of years after this, it was a such a cheap and uninspiring team, one that was very limited in terms of quality. 7 years to build a team and the best he could come up with in the biggest game was a front two of Jon Stead and Christian f(_)ckin Nade.

Sorry but apart from a few games under David Weir I've honestly missed Warnock like a hole in the head. So much of his reign was watching long ball 5hite because he didn't have a clue how to build a quality football team. The 2003 season he just happened to stumble across a team with Mccall, Brown and Michael Tonge.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

In my head are Pele, Platini, Cruyff and Beckenbauer. Charlton, Best, Currie and Liam Brady. Which scruffy ragamuffin shadow-chasers occupy your thoughts?

The five best players I've ever seen who I greatly admire and respect are Zinedine Zidane, Ronaldo, Thierry Henry, Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi.

Who are these ragamuffins you speak of?

Again, all in your head.

 

[Pinchy]

Football is there to be enjoyed in all its forms by anyone. Nobody should score points for enjoying one style over another.

Some people put results above all. Some people want beautiful football and don't care about trophies. Some people want an afternoon out with their mates and the team to try hard. That's the beauty of football, it's all there to be analysed, debated and enjoyed (Or not). But ultimately it's whatever you want to make of it

That’s fine but falls into the usual trap of distinguishing between good football and winning football. The truth is they are one and the same. The best footballers play for the best teams. They win the matches, leagues and trophies. They play the most attractive football and they succeed. Hoofers play grotesque football and fail. The days of the ragamuffin upanatem underdogs went out with the demise of Wimbledon. No loss to football there. Mourned only in S2.

It really is time to accept that this debate was won and lost a very long time ago and continues nowhere else but here. It’s embarrasing.

Cavemen, please shut your eyes...

Football won. Reep, POMO Hughes, Bassett, Beck and SemiPro were soundly beaten.

“Proper football. The Right Way”

Chris Wilder.
Manager, Sheffield United F.C.

 

[tomtheblade]

Football is there to be enjoyed in all its forms by anyone. Nobody should score points for enjoying one style over another.

Some people put results above all. Some people want beautiful football and don't care about trophies. Some people want an afternoon out with their mates and the team to try hard. That's the beauty of football, it's all there to be analysed, debated and enjoyed (Or not). But ultimately it's whatever you want to make of it

Indeed. The game moves on, and at a fast pace. Spain were incomparable from that period from 2008-2012, but their tactics, and to some extent their team, had gotten stale by 2014.

Total football, long ball, tikki-takka, counter-attacking football, the press, etc have all had their periods of effectiveness, but all will come up against new and improved styles and tactics and be forced to evolve once more

 

[Carlton Blade]

That’s fine but falls into the usual trap of distinguishing between good football and winning football. The truth is they are one and the same. The best footballers play for the best teams. They win the matches, leagues and trophies. They play the most attractive football and they succeed. Hoofers play grotesque football and fail. The days of the ragamuffin upanatem underdogs went out with the demise of Wimbledon. No loss to football there. Mourned only in S2.

It really is time to accept that this debate was won and lost a very long time ago and continues nowhere else but here. It’s embarrasing.

Cavemen, please shut your eyes...

Football won. Reep, POMO Hughes, Bassett, Beck and SemiPro were soundly beaten.

“Proper football. The Right Way”

Chris Wilder.
Manager, Sheffield United F.C.

You can't legislate for what people enjoy. Football is entertainment. Look at IMDBs top scoring films. I might not enjoy them all but I can appreciate why they are well made. I don't like watching direct football but I can appreciate that to a certain point it can be effective - and some people enjoy the result more than the process of obtaining it.

 

[Pinchy]

You can't legislate for what people enjoy. Football is entertainment. Look at IMDBs top scoring films. I might not enjoy them all but I can appreciate why they are well made. I don't like watching direct football but I can appreciate that to a certain point it can be effective - and some people enjoy the result more than the process of obtaining it.

Yes, but at the risk of labouring the point, one style of football is by far the most likely to obtain the said result.

There was a thankfully brief period when parks football invaded the professional game and until proper footballers realised they could actually cope with it quite comfortably, it had some fleeting success. The novelty was curiously appealing for a while until the whole of the nation outside S2 realised it was grotesque, repetitive, unskilled, unaesthetic garbage.

The Right Way (a favourite phrase of our Manager, I say yet again for those with their ears covered) prevailed and the Hoofers became unemployable, thank Pele.

History confirms unequivocally the triumph of stylish, effective pass and move over aimless punt, kick and rush, kids in the playground shite.

That these simple and obvious observations attract such fervent opposition says everything about the Bassett, Warnock generations. Sadly, they know no better and refuse to learn.

It’s a Herculean task but I’m no quitter. I’ll keep trying, for football’s sake.

 

[Pinchy]

Indeed. The game moves on, and at a fast pace. Spain were incomparable from that period from 2008-2012, but their tactics, and to some extent their team, had gotten stale by 2014.

Total football, long ball, tikki-takka, counter-attacking football, the press, etc have all had their periods of effectiveness, but all will come up against new and improved styles and tactics and be forced to evolve once more

The dinosaurs were unable to evolve. They perished. So did their football equivalents.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Yes, but at the risk of labouring the point, one style of football is by far the most likely to obtain the said result.

There was a thankfully brief period when parks football invaded the professional game and until proper footballers realised they could actually cope with it quite comfortably, it had some fleeting success. The novelty was curiously appealing for a while until the whole of the nation outside S2 realised it was grotesque, repetitive, unskilled, unaesthetic garbage.

The Right Way (a favourite phrase of our Manager, I say yet again for those with their ears covered) prevailed and the Hoofers became unemployable, thank Pele.

History confirms unequivocally the triumph of stylish, effective pass and move over aimless punt, kick and rush, kids in the playground shite.

That these simple and obvious observations attract such fervent opposition says everything about the Bassett, Warnock generations. Sadly, they know no better and refuse to learn.

It’s a Herculean task but I’m no quitter. I’ll keep trying, for football’s sake.

Unappreciated in your own time Pinchy

The tide has well and truly turned towards better football. I'd say it's got as far as the top end of League 1, with a few Warnock/Pulis exceptions.

I was talking to an Oldham fan today. He said L2 is an abomination. Big blokes fighting, everyone going direct. So there's a fair way to go before percentage football becomes completely extinct.

The one thing Wednesday fans were right about in the La Liga bullshit was the style of football. In the 6 years we were gone the top 2 divisions have adopted slicker, more attractive football. It's most definitely a massive improvement