What would have happened if Blackwell had been allowed to continue?

[JohnDenver]

Personally I think Blackwell continuously made short term decisions which kept us in the play off contension until last season, but it was only a matter of time before it started going really downhill. I think the squad this season was so weak that I don't believe Blackwell could have made us perform much better. As the results would still have been considered disappointing (the club still spoke of promotion in the summer), Blackwell would probably have been sacked in October-November.

Only my guess of course, but if likely, the timing of the sacking wasn't necessarily the main problem this season. Clubs sack their managers all year, and giving Speed the job in October, rather than August, wouldn't have made much difference to us - maybe it would have been even worse. As I see it we went into this season with a poor squad, where we let the summer pass without carrying through the clear out we badly needed, and instead renewed the expensive contracts of players we should have replaced, which didn't leave enough cash to fill the other gaps in the squad. This made us go for more short term signings, i.e. loans. Again.

Agree with every word of that. The club hierarchy allowed this to happen. Blackwell was cuplable, but I understand his approach. If he had re-profiled the squad properly (and in better time), he may have lost his job earlier but saved us from this season of implosion.

The football strategy was simply non-existent.

 

[super_pig]

>Blackwell was just a pawn in McCabes macabre game
nail on head there.. i think he was in existence mode most of the time

 

[Sothall_Blade]

I've voted mid-table. You have to consider that in our first match this season we earned a point away at Cardiff while playing with ten men for almost an hour. One of our best results of the season. Can anybody envisage the current team doing that? Or even the team once Speed had put his stamp on it? In Blackwell's second game, we lost badly to QPR but given their subseqent form that result seems only to be expected now.

Everybody says that Blackwell left us with an unbalanced squad and he did. But when he was sacked there will still 17 days left in the transfer window. The rebuilding job he probably intended wasn't complete. Who is to say that he wouldn't have signed the pacy, skilfull forward and winger we needed (and still need) rather than waste funds on a fifth right back who never plays (Calve)?

He brought Britten in with a view to playing him just behind the strikers in an attacking, creative role. Two games, one excellent assist for Evans and that was that. How do we know Blackwell wouldn't have got more out of Britten than Speed did by playing him just in front of the back four with the creative talents of Montgomery and Ertl ahead of him? Blackwell signed and got the best performances out of Ward. Simonsen looked excellent under Blackwell last season, very inconsistent/poor under Speed and Adams this. Cresswell likewise.

Once the decision was taken last May to persevere with Blackwell this season, he should have been given the full transfer window and at least 10 matches. To let him half build a squad, sack him after ONE bad result and then replace him with a rookie was an absolutely ridicolous decision. We're now suffering the consquences and will do for years to come.

 

[Grecian2000]

Everybody says that Blackwell left us with an unbalanced squad and he did. But when he was sacked there will still 17 days left in the transfer window. The rebuilding job he probably intended wasn't complete. Who is to say that he wouldn't have signed the pacy, skilfull forward and winger we needed (and still need) rather than waste funds on a fifth right back who never plays (Calve)?

Because he hates the thoughts of wingers.

Cotterill, Dyer, Little, Treacey and Reid were all slated (and/or seldom played) because he thought they were not tracking back enough. He would rather play Halford out of position on the wing than give them a run, he even had the majestical Jordan Stewart at RW for a glorious 20 minutes against Newcastle rather than bring Cotterill on.
No bollocks, no brain, no thanks.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Because he hates the thoughts of wingers.

Cotterill, Dyer, Little, Treacey and Reid were all slated (and/or seldom played) because he thought they were not tracking back enough. He would rather play Halford out of position on the wing than give them a run, he even had the majestical Jordan Stewart at RW for a glorious 20 minutes against Newcastle rather than bring Cotterill on.
No bollocks, no brain, no thanks.

Funny how he signed all the wingers you listed plus Ward and Yeates when he "hates wingers" and of those he played Cotterill, Treacey and Ward regularly. How many out and out wingers have Speed and Adams signed between them? Halford was excellent on either wing for us. I didn't have a problem with him being played there while the likes of Webber, Ward and Cotterill were also around to provide the skill and pace.

The problems arise when none of the forwards or the two wide players has any skill or pace. That's a situation that's happened regularly this season under Speed and Adams but was very rarely the case under Blackwell.

 

[Bergen Blade]

The problems arise when none of the forwards or the two wide players has any skill or pace. That's a situation that's happened regularly this season under Speed and Adams but was very rarely the case under Blackwell.

Two. We should try to have at least two quick/skilful lads in the forward line, as discussed in this thread: http://www.s24su.com/showthread.php?19042-Two-quick-lads-in-the-team

I think it's a valid point that Blackwell never really appreciated this. I think he sometimes planned to, hence his signings of a few widemen, but he always ended up picking the more "solid" options, which meant we often only had one quick outlet, whom the opposition doubled up on and thus made ineffective. Blackwell then often decided to ditch natural wingers altogether and used central midfielders in wide roles.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Two. We should try to have at least two quick/skilful lads in the forward line, as discussed in this thread: http://www.s24su.com/showthread.php?19042-Two-quick-lads-in-the-team

I think it's a valid point that Blackwell never really appreciated this. I think he sometimes planned to, hence his signings of a few widemen, but he always ended up picking the more "solid" options, which meant we often only had one quick outlet, whom the opposition doubled up on and thus made ineffective. Blackwell then often decided to ditch natural wingers altogether and used central midfielders in wide roles.

I know we agree about the need for pace and skill up front and we've both banged on about it long and hard.
However, I think you underestimate the extent to which Blackwell used pacy, skilful players by comparison with Speed and Adams.
I've done a bit of research and the stats as I see them are as follows:-

2010-2011:- Ward 13 starts, Bent 4 (pacy and skilful?). Total 17 starts (2 of those under Blackwell).
2009-2010:- Ward 25 starts, Treacey 12, Camara 9, Cotterill 3. Total 49 starts.
2008-2009:- Webber 21 starts, Cotterill 17, Ward 7, Dyer 3, Lupoli 2. Total 50 starts.

I've not even included Naughton and Walker's many appearances under Blackwell. Who both provided a pacy, skilful option from full back that we haven't sought to use this season.
All the skilful and pacy players have now left and neither Speed or Adams have brought a single one in to the club (unless you count Bent, which I don't think you can nowadays really).

 

[Bergen Blade]

I know we agree about the need for pace and skill up front and we've both banged on about it long and hard.
However, I think you underestimate the extent to which Blackwell used pacy, skilful players by comparison with Speed and Adams.
I've done a bit of research and the stats as I see them are as follows:-

2010-2011:- Ward 13 starts, Bent 4 (pacy and skilful?). Total 17 starts (2 of those under Blackwell).
2009-2010:- Ward 25 starts, Treacey 12, Camara 9, Cotterill 3. Total 49 starts.
2008-2009:- Webber 21 starts, Cotterill 17, Ward 7, Dyer 3, Lupoli 2. Total 50 starts.

I've not even included Naughton and Walker's many appearances under Blackwell. Who both provided a pacy, skilful option from full back that we haven't sought to use this season.
All the skilful and pacy players have now left and neither Speed or Adams have brought a single one in to the club (unless you count Bent, which I don't think you can nowadays really).

I don't think I underestimate Blackwell's use of quick players, in fact like you I went through our line ups, and found the good results when we did use two quick lads, as is my preference. Blackwell often played Camara or Ward or Cotterill, very rarely two of them at the same time and I think this contributed towards too much responsibility being put on whoever of them were picked.

We should be looking at 92 quick player starts per season, and even more quick options on the bench.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

I don't think I underestimate Blackwell's use of quick players, in fact like you I went through our line ups, and found the good results when we did use two quick lads, as is my preference. Blackwell often played Camara or Ward or Cotterill, very rarely two of them at the same time and I think this contributed towards too much responsibility being put on whoever of them were picked.

We should be looking at 92 quick player starts per season, and even more quick options on the bench.

Ok then more stats and I think you'll like these as they back up what we've been saying:-

2007-2008:- Cotterill 15, Webber 8, Shelton 5, Martin 5. Total 33. Robson hardly used pace at all it was only when Blackwell brought Cotterill in that we had a regular pacy starter.
2006-2007:- Kazim-Richards 15, Webber 13, Ifill 3, Shelton 2. Total 33. Relegated from the Premier League. Bound to be less offensive but still more pace employed than this season.
2005-2006:- Ifill 28, Webber 24, Kabba 21. Total 73. The highest total by far in recent seasons and lo and behold. Promoted to the Premier League.
2004-2005:- Cadamateri 14, Kabba 6, Webber 6, Forte 1. Total 27. Finished 8th.
2003-2004:- Ndlovu 28, Parkinson 3, Boussatta 3, Sturridge 2, Forte 1, Mcleod 1. Total 38. Finished 8th.
2002-2003:- Ndlovu 30, Kabba 19, McGovern 11, Morrison 3. Total 63. Second highest total of pacy, skilful players. FA Cup Semi Final. League Cup Semi Final. 3rd in League. Play-off Final.

The stats on the official site don't go back any further than that but on this basis, skilful, pacy players is the way to go!

 

[Barney Rubble]

I seem to only ever post defending a bloke we ought to have got rid of 2 years ago, but anyway .....

Throughout the Warnock era, the best footballing side IMHO was undoubtedly the 2002-3 side, that got to a playoff final and 2 major cup semi-finals, coached by Hoofy. A lot of credit must go to Blackwell - our set pieces were excellent and players like Brown and Tonge have made their careers out of their performances that season.

When he came back to the club the situation was fairly similar to that when Adams took over this year. Although we might have had a few more points,if we'd stuck with Robson then, I thought we were going down, but Blackie completely turned things around and we ended up just hort of the playoffs, playing entertaining football.

I thought the following season started off O.K. but after a few poor results the papers were full of talk that Shearer or someone was coming in as manager and from then on I felt that we saw increasingly negative tactics on the pitch. Hoofball was relatively successful, we only just missed out on automatic promotion and got to the playoff finals using this style of football. I think if BT had not been replaced by Craig BT after the transfer window we would have gone up and although we were well beaten by Burnley in the playoff final, our performances at Reading away and then against Preston in the playoff semis suggested we still had a lot to offer as a team.

A lot has been made of our financial position once we lost the parachute payments, but as I understand it we still benefitted from :-
1) £10 million plus income from sales of players
2) Start of compensation payments from West Ham
3) Income from playoff final at Wembley, as losing finalists
4) One of the highest income from gate receipts in the Championship

The only purchase of note since then has been Chedward, who has reportedly cost us £3m, although the fee may have been talked up by the club, with the full cost only really being met when he gets a cap for England. (However, Blackwell's record on transfers is undoubtedly difficult to defend - he'd probably have paid a couple of million to sign Nos, and his record in this area is why we should have got shut of him well before we did).

Apart from this signing, there seems to have been a new job description put in place for managing the Blades :-

Players who can command a good price in the transfer market must be sold.
Purchases must be restricted to free transfers (and the board reserves the right to help decide who to purchase)
Size of playing squad must be reduced, with outgoing players being replaced by loans.
A playoff place must remain a realistic possibillity.
Team should play entertaining football.

By and large, Cheapaschips continued to meet all those criteria last season, with the obvious exception of the quality of football on the pitch. This season we were always going to struggle, as we've failed to reinvest any money in players,whilst continuing to operate a revolving dor policy for loans. Given that midtable mediocrity was not acceptable it was inevitable that at some point Blackwell would have been sacked. The only difference may have been that we had enough points to stay up and rebuild in this division rather than in the pub league.

 

[cooperblade]

2005-2006:- Ifill 28

The stats on the official site don't go back any further than that but on this basis, skilful, pacy players is the way to go!

Was Ifill pacey? I think the pebble he used to keep in his boot stopped him being quick He was a strange player, I was never very sure what he was good at but his goals and assists record was top notch.

We got relegated with a side that was full of pace and Robson dismantled it and brought in as many expensive, overpaid, zero re-sale value has-beens as he could find.

Completely agree with those who question the timing of Blackwell's sacking. There were plenty of times he could and should have gone and then when he finally got the bullet it seemed to be a knee jerk decision. If he'd stayed, I think the atmosphere at the Lane would've been poisonous and crowds would be lower than they are now. However, and it might be my memory playing tricks but, I don't remember us being a total shambles at defending set pieces under Blackwell. A bit more organisation defensively and we'd be a good few points better off.

Adams has talked about the need for pace and playing an attacking 4-4-2 but, for whatever reason, we haven't seen it yet. If we are in L1 next season, hopefully we'll see a side of strong, hungry, tall, quick players.

 

[Grecian2000]

The only purchase of note since then has been Chedward, who has reportedly cost us £3m, although the fee may have been talked up by the club, with the full cost only really being met when he gets a cap for England.

I take it all back about our transfer negotiating team. Whoever arranged that is a fucking genius. Can we get Messi on a similar deal?

 

[oldblade]

I think we would still have struggled with the squad we've got. But I think we might be hovering just above the bottom 3 and in with a chance of avoiding the drop.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Was Ifill pacey? I think the pebble he used to keep in his boot stopped him being quick He was a strange player, I was never very sure what he was good at but his goals and assists record was top notch.

We got relegated with a side that was full of pace and Robson dismantled it and brought in as many expensive, overpaid, zero re-sale value has-beens as he could find.

Completely agree with those who question the timing of Blackwell's sacking. There were plenty of times he could and should have gone and then when he finally got the bullet it seemed to be a knee jerk decision. If he'd stayed, I think the atmosphere at the Lane would've been poisonous and crowds would be lower than they are now. However, and it might be my memory playing tricks but, I don't remember us being a total shambles at defending set pieces under Blackwell. A bit more organisation defensively and we'd be a good few points better off.

Adams has talked about the need for pace and playing an attacking 4-4-2 but, for whatever reason, we haven't seen it yet. If we are in L1 next season, hopefully we'll see a side of strong, hungry, tall, quick players.

It's not always genuine pace that's needed, sometimes a player can help stretch teams by often aiming to get in behind them, run at defenders, make off the ball runs into space etc. Another player that could be put in this bracket was Pesky, who was quick over three yards, often got in behind defences, but also found that defenders caught up with him before he could finish. Nade was also quick and should be added to the Premier season, maybe Stead too, and Hulse was quicker than most thought.

I agree with you that Warnock gradually tried changing the look of the team/squad, and it would have been really interesting to see how we'd do if only we'd stayed up.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

I take it all back about our transfer negotiating team. Whoever arranged that is a fucking genius. Can we get Messi on a similar deal?

Top stuff!

 

[oldblade]

The only purchase of note since then has been Chedward, who has reportedly cost us £3m, although the fee may have been talked up by the club, with the full cost only really being met when he gets a cap for England.

That's good. We won't ever have to meet the full cost then as he'll never play for England on account of him being Welsh!

 

[Barney Rubble]

I take it all back about our transfer negotiating team. Whoever arranged that is a fucking genius. Can we get Messi on a similar deal?

We did try, he was McCabe's bums on seats signing we just missed out on in the transfer window.

The point that I was trying to make though, was that the board 'bigged up' how much he was costing us to dampen down fan reaction to the sale of Beattie, Naughton, Walker etc. The initial downpayment was probably much smaller with further payments dependent on various add-ons. If the Norwich rumours are true, we may be looking to offload him now before we have to pay Man City any more.

 

[IOM Blade]

The similarities between Blackie's time with The Blades and his time with Leeds are a little scary. He takes both teams to the play off final, both play shit and loose. He starts to lose his way and is replaced, but the rot has already set and League 1 beckons. Let's just hope we find our Simon Grayson soon - sadly, i don't think it's Micky Adams.