What is the point of Matty Harriott

[Rodley]

Whitehouse would be in the first XI if fit. Harriott ought to be given a few starts from the bench, but Whitehouse is in the box seat for me and will push Doyle close for his shirt when all are fully fit/available.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Whitehouse would be in the first XI if fit. Harriott ought to be given a few starts from the bench, but Whitehouse is in the box seat for me and will push Doyle close for his shirt when all are fully fit/available.

Wilson is a big fan of the Doyle/McDonald partnership though. Maybe he'll try Whitehouse on the right in place of McAllister at some point?

 

[Bladesman]

It is worth trying some of the youngters.

4 strikers on the bench tonight!

 

[super_pig]

But let's be honest, it's a completely different scenario managing ManUre to Sheff UTD. Ferguson has got lots of scope to weaken his side and still be better than the opposition.

sorry but you've missed my (slightly obscure i confess) point.. Man Utd kids seem to be good enough to go straight in, whereas ours aren't??

 

[Princess Annes Dog]

sorry but you've missed my (slightly obscure i confess) point.. Man Utd kids seem to be good enough to go straight in, whereas ours aren't??

Very good point actually, we keep hearing how well the kids are doing and what a marvelous job Pemberton did but then what? Do they reach advanced puberty and forget all they know? No point giving them ten minutes here and there or sticking them on the bench all season, playing them worked with Tonge and Jags so why can't it work with the current bunch? It's not as if we're a team of world beaters, we're pretty dire so even if they fail, they can't be much worse than the current first team and at least we'll know if they're worth keeping or not.

 

[Kev Gee]

Surely the time has come for McCabe to refuse Wilsons requests for loan cover & tell him to bring the kids through or leave. After all that was his brief for this season. How can playing someone out of position when there is a young lad raring to go on the bench be good for confidence or help them progress?

 

[alcoblade]

sorry but you've missed my (slightly obscure i confess) point.. Man Utd kids seem to be good enough to go straight in, whereas ours aren't??

I think it's you who missed my point, becuse I was replying to Bergen...

UTB

 

[metalblade]

I think this is the season in which we will find out if Wilson is any good and up to now the answer is........................
No he is not good enough, it is OK playing the pretty football when you have a half decent squad of players (like last season) but over the summer for one reason or another that little bit of quality has gone. We are now left with a team which is desperately poor but no one can really say it is not Danny's team, it is with the possible exception of Kitson who is for sure a McCabe signing. Strength in depth we have none, no pace in midfield, no wide players, no cover in defence and overloaded with strikers. What we do have going for us is an Academy with players good enough to challenge the best in the country in the last few years, but sadly a manager who doesn't have the balls to give them a game. If he played them and we lost a few I could accept that, what is not acceptable is playing full backs in midfield or taking players on short term loans every time we have a few injuries or suspensions, those are the same mistakes that got us into this division and the same mistakes which will take us out of it at the wrong end.
Sort it out Danny and grow some bollocks it's not as if we are throwing the young uns up against the likes of Chelsea and Man U we are 3rd division FFS playing the likes of Bury, Scunthorpe and Doncaster no disrespect to any of them.

 

[super_pig]

and another thing Danny..could you play them in their normal positions please?? thanks

 

[Bladesman]

I think this is the season in which we will find out if Wilson is any good and up to now the answer is........................
No he is not good enough, it is OK playing the pretty football when you have a half decent squad of players (like last season) but over the summer for one reason or another that little bit of quality has gone. We are now left with a team which is desperately poor but no one can really say it is not Danny's team, it is with the possible exception of Kitson who is for sure a McCabe signing. Strength in depth we have none, no pace in midfield, no wide players, no cover in defence and overloaded with strikers. What we do have going for us is an Academy with players good enough to challenge the best in the country in the last few years, but sadly a manager who doesn't have the balls to give them a game. If he played them and we lost a few I could accept that, what is not acceptable is playing full backs in midfield or taking players on short term loans every time we have a few injuries or suspensions, those are the same mistakes that got us into this division and the same mistakes which will take us out of it at the wrong end.
Sort it out Danny and grow some bollocks it's not as if we are throwing the young uns up against the likes of Chelsea and Man U we are 3rd division FFS playing the likes of Bury, Scunthorpe and Doncaster no disrespect to any of them.

Exactly it is about balancing your team with experience and youth at this level.

It is what got Soton, Charlton etc out of this league especially when they had to make cut backs in their spending.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Some players may have to realise they are not going to take the next step of their football careers at the Lane: Aaron Barry, Jordan Chappell, Matt Harriott, Erik Tønne, Danny Philliskirk. Can't see any of them starting next season with us.

The following may have a bit more time, but must be careful to not fall into the same category as the above: George Long, Terry Kennedy, Joe Ironside.

This leaves Whitehouse and McFadzean who I think will be played.

 

[alcoblade]

Some players may have to realise they are not going to take the next step of their football careers at the Lane: Aaron Barry, Jordan Chappell, Matt Harriott, Erik Tønne, Danny Philliskirk. Can't see any of them starting next season with us.

The following may have a bit more time, but must be careful to not fall into the same category as the above: George Long, Terry Kennedy, Joe Ironside.

This leaves Whitehouse and McFadzean who I think will be played.

I'll put my money on any player who leaves the lane because of lack of opportunity spending most of their career at a lower level that SUFC. Like every other set of players that fans have clamoured to be thrown in over the years.

UTB

 

[Bergen Blade]

I'll put my money on any player who leaves the lane because of lack of opportunity spending most of their career at a lower level that SUFC.

UTB

It would be a surprise if most of them went on to Premiership football.

There are some that have done ok, Liban Abdi, Nicky Law, Jonathan Forte, Billy Sharpe. Horwood, Kyle McFadzean, Brown and Robertson play at our level now, Hurst, Ryan Cresswell have done it and may have been allright (and cheaper) as back up than the likes of Jordan Stewart and Jonathan Fortune. Kristoffer Løkberg is playing regularly in the Norwegian second tier, and trained with Rosenborg (Europa League qualifiers) earlier this year.

However I thought a lot of fans had even higher hopes for the YCF players (and to a smaller extent the reserve league winning side of last season). But as it's suggested that only a couple of them will remain/make the first team, what's the reaction? Shrugged shoulders?

 

[Foxy]

However I thought a lot of fans had even higher hopes for the YCF players (and to a smaller extent the reserve league winning side of last season). But as it's suggested that only a couple of them will remain/make the first team, what's the reaction? Shrugged shoulders?

The problem is, a lot of fans see absolutely nothing or very little of the players in question but then blow their potential well out of proportion. We mentioned De Girolamo in a few reports (scored another couple last week and then had a run out for the u21's), based on those, people elsewhere decided he's ready for the first team and that he should be thrown straight in. Without a doubt he's a talent, but he's a young kid!

I see quite a bit of the youth games and therefore the players in question (though they now handily play the U21's while I'm at work), but I'd rather leave it to the professionals to decide when they are ready for a run out. I've been right on the Kyle's, wrong on a few others (Nicky Travis, Ian Ross, Keith Quinn and more).

There is a big difference between youth football and first team football, even in our league.

 

[Racy]

The problem is, a lot of fans see absolutely nothing or very little of the players in question but then blow their potential well out of proportion. We mentioned De Girolamo in a few reports (scored another couple last week and then had a run out for the u21's), based on those, people elsewhere decided he's ready for the first team and that he should be thrown straight in. Without a doubt he's a talent, but he's a young kid!

I see quite a bit of the youth games and therefore the players in question (though they now handily play the U21's while I'm at work), but I'd rather leave it to the professionals to decide when they are ready for a run out. I've been right on the Kyle's, wrong on a few others (Nicky

Travis, Ian Ross, Keith Quinn and more).

There is a big difference between youth football and first team football, even in our league.

 

[alcoblade]

The problem is, a lot of fans see absolutely nothing or very little of the players in question but then blow their potential well out of proportion.........................There is a big difference between youth football and first team football, even in our league.

Exactly. If someone knows we have a star on our hands, then chuck them in. But it seems many people want to throw them in because we have a mistaken belief that youth is, in itself, the answer. This is fuelled by noises from the club that suggest so, which are cleary a result of us being skint rather than it actually being the case.

UTB

 

[Racy]

The problem is, a lot of fans see absolutely nothing or very little of the players in question but then blow their potential well out of proportion. We mentioned De Girolamo in a few reports (scored another couple last week and then had a run out for the u21's), based on those, people elsewhere decided he's ready for the first team and that he should be thrown straight in. Without a doubt he's a talent, but he's a young kid!

I see quite a bit of the youth games and therefore the players in question (though they now handily play the U21's while I'm at work), but I'd rather leave it to the professionals to decide when they are ready for a run out. I've been right on the Kyle's, wrong on a few others (Nicky Travis, Ian Ross, Keith Quinn and more).

There is a big difference between youth football and first team football, even in our league.

You are absolutely right you cannot judge a kid on youth team performances but can't DW filter them in when he can at the moment I think the managers panicked and brought in loanees expecting them to be an instant hit.

Mcallister is just not making an impact at the moment I think he needs Doyle to return to guide him similar situation McGuire needed Collins last season

 

[Bergen Blade]

The problem is, a lot of fans see absolutely nothing or very little of the players in question but then blow their potential well out of proportion. We mentioned De Girolamo in a few reports (scored another couple last week and then had a run out for the u21's), based on those, people elsewhere decided he's ready for the first team and that he should be thrown straight in. Without a doubt he's a talent, but he's a young kid!

I see quite a bit of the youth games and therefore the players in question (though they now handily play the U21's while I'm at work), but I'd rather leave it to the professionals to decide when they are ready for a run out. I've been right on the Kyle's, wrong on a few others (Nicky Travis, Ian Ross, Keith Quinn and more).

There is a big difference between youth football and first team football, even in our league.

But how can you trust professionals blindly when professionals disagree on youth policy? There's no definite answer, but many different philosophies. Our managers are reluctant to play young players, partly because their job is at stake and playing youngsters is considered a risk (I accept that). The exceptional are the exceptions.

When people have seen our team being desperate for width and pace down the flanks, and the club owns two young, skilful and quick wingers, there's nothing wrong with questioning the manager's preference of playing central midfielders, full backs, target men and expensive one month loans there instead, especially when the performances have been poor and the problem with our lack of width and goals persists.

You've said you've been a fan of one of the young wingers at the club Foxy, but most of the time you argue against his selection. Both Chappell and Tønne are 20ish and they are desperate for first team football. Radio Sheffield don't know who they are, there's nobody questioning Danny Wilson's omission of them and sooner or later they're going to leave.

 

[Racy]

But how can you trust professionals blindly when professionals disagree on youth policy? There's no definite answer, but many different philosophies. Our managers are reluctant to play young players, partly because their job is at stake and playing youngsters is considered a risk (I accept that). The exceptional are the exceptions.

When people have seen our team being desperate for width and pace down the flanks, and the club owns two young, skilful and quick wingers, there's nothing wrong with questioning the manager's preference of playing central midfielders, full backs, target men and expensive one month loans there instead, especially when the performances have been poor and the problem with our lack of width and goals persists.

You've said you've been a fan of one of the young wingers at the club Foxy, but most of the time you argue against his selection. Both Chappell and Tønne are 20ish and they are desperate for first team football. Radio Sheffield don't know who they are, there's nobody questioning Danny Wilson's omission of them and sooner or later they're going to leave.

Surely when the opportunity arises whether through injury or suspension surely we can filter the kids in.

We are not asking the manager to field the youth team but it's paid off in the past Jags,KillaTonge ect

 

[Foxy]

But how can you trust professionals blindly when professionals disagree on youth policy? There's no definite answer, but many different philosophies. Our managers are reluctant to play young players, partly because their job is at stake and playing youngsters is considered a risk (I accept that). The exceptional are the exceptions.

I wouldn't say I'd trust professionals blindly, just that I trust them more than myself in terms of knowing when a player is ready to bring through.

I'd have given Harry a chance probably 12 months before we did, but I saw when we did finally introduce him that perhaps I'd have been wrong on that and even after breaking through and doing well it would have probably helped him no end to have not needed to be a first choice. I'd have had Keith Quinn in the starting lineup a few years back, he's now playing somewhere in the league of Ireland.

Wilson isn't reluctant to play young players, he's using Maguire (though we have little cover/choice otherwise), he brought in Westlake who isn't much older than some of those who people are suggesting we bring through, his first choice striker is 22 and the man he's given nearly as much time to up there with him is only 19.

I would have loved Ironside to start the season, he was in form and he was looking more ready than he has previously. He has very good games, he has very average games, so if it was my job to pick the team as much as I was calling for him to get a chance, I'd probably still be on the fence. I'd be giving him a go from the bench when we aren't desperate to find a way back into the game.

I don't think it's youth in particular he's scared of, it's probably more a case of not believing they are quite ready or wanting to maintain an older average age believing we need experience to help the younger players.

When people have seen our team being desperate for width and pace down the flanks, and the club owns two young, skilful and quick wingers, there's nothing wrong with questioning the manager's preference of playing central midfielders, full backs, target men and expensive one month loans there instead, especially when the performances have been poor and the problem with our lack of width and goals persists.

I've been saying since pre-season I wanted to see McFadzean in the team, but I believe he's not been 100% fit and with the defence starting the season looking shaky and exposed and the team still finding their feet, I could see why he wasn't thrown straight in. I'd very much like to see him come off the bench a couple of times and then force his way into the starting lineup. I'd certainly prefer this to forcing Williams to play out of position, but again, I can understand why Wilson made that decision and the defensive side to that worked. If the defence starts looking something like, then chuck him in for 90 minutes rather than off the bench.

You've said you've been a fan of one of the young wingers at the club Foxy, but most of the time you argue against his selection. Both Chappell and Tønne are 20ish and they are desperate for first team football. Radio Sheffield don't know who they are, there's nobody questioning Danny Wilson's omission of them and sooner or later they're going to leave.

If they do leave, it won't be because Wilson has overlooked them purely because of their age, it'll be that they haven't convinced him that they are ready/consistently good enough.

You know how much I get the piss taken out of me for my rating of Tønne, but he simply isn't showing consistently that he's strong enough and has adapted to the British style of play. He's undoubtedly got talent, and he is capable of all the attributes he needs to show, but he needs to put them together as the skill and technique alone isn't stand out/regular enough to forgive him on the rest (unless of course he continues to score at the current rate). If he can show Wilson a few games in a row that he isn't just going to be forced off the ball and become anonymous, then I genuinely believe he'll get his chance.

Chappell, I'd love to see start, he used to sit a couple of rows in front of me as a nipper and is mates with old neighbors, but similarly, I don't think he's quite ready for the first team yet. I'd certainly give him 15/20 minutes from the bench to inject a bit of pace and genuine width, but I'd not throw him in for 90 minutes.

Philliskirk needs to quickly learn to do things purely on instinct or to improve on his releasing of the ball. He's gets into some fantastic positions, but is prone to dwelling on the ball and allowing his man to recover/get a tackle in. I thought he was in his best form playing with Tønne, but for me he just doesn't have any stand out attributes to offer something different to our current choices.

In summary, as much as I'd love to see them all playing first team every week I don't necessarily think Wilson is wrong to be leaving them out at the moment. If they don't get a look in all season and we persist in playing Williams/Westlake out of position, then I'll be quickly changing my mind on that... But at the moment, I totally understand his reasoning for only having them in and around.

I think had Whitehouse not done his foot we'd possibly not even be having this conversation now, for the last couple of years for me he's been the one showing the most consistency and most likely to be the next one they would trust to step up. Fingers crossed he can get back up to fitness and continue in the same vein, as he'll force his way in.

 

[Wapping Blade]

There is an innate conservatism in football and, apart from a very few examples, managers are always going to go with "experience" over youth. I would not just "leave it to the professionals" but strongly encourage (or more) them to give the youngsters experience otherwise they'll never get it and we'll just repeat the cycle ad infinitum.

 

[Fiery Blade]

Wilson could blood some of the youngsters in short substitution appearances to give them a 'feel' of 1st team football - but he lacks the bottle to do it!
Some performances have been dire this season but he doesn't appear to want to risk his buys like Miller as sub but opts every time for the tried and tested Cresswell (or should I say TIRED and tested)!!

 

[Gibbo89]

I think a big problem is we haven't really had a game yet this season where we've looked comfortable enough to give one or more a short subs appearance without risking losing points. Ironically it's the poor performances of the more experienced players that is holding the kids back.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I wouldn't say I'd trust professionals blindly, just that I trust them more than myself in terms of knowing when a player is ready to bring through.

I'd have given Harry a chance probably 12 months before we did, but I saw when we did finally introduce him that perhaps I'd have been wrong on that and even after breaking through and doing well it would have probably helped him no end to have not needed to be a first choice. I'd have had Keith Quinn in the starting lineup a few years back, he's now playing somewhere in the league of Ireland.

Wilson isn't reluctant to play young players, he's using Maguire (though we have little cover/choice otherwise), he brought in Westlake who isn't much older than some of those who people are suggesting we bring through, his first choice striker is 22 and the man he's given nearly as much time to up there with him is only 19.

I would have loved Ironside to start the season, he was in form and he was looking more ready than he has previously. He has very good games, he has very average games, so if it was my job to pick the team as much as I was calling for him to get a chance, I'd probably still be on the fence. I'd be giving him a go from the bench when we aren't desperate to find a way back into the game.

I don't think it's youth in particular he's scared of, it's probably more a case of not believing they are quite ready or wanting to maintain an older average age believing we need experience to help the younger players.



I've been saying since pre-season I wanted to see McFadzean in the team, but I believe he's not been 100% fit and with the defence starting the season looking shaky and exposed and the team still finding their feet, I could see why he wasn't thrown straight in. I'd very much like to see him come off the bench a couple of times and then force his way into the starting lineup. I'd certainly prefer this to forcing Williams to play out of position, but again, I can understand why Wilson made that decision and the defensive side to that worked. If the defence starts looking something like, then chuck him in for 90 minutes rather than off the bench.



If they do leave, it won't be because Wilson has overlooked them purely because of their age, it'll be that they haven't convinced him that they are ready/consistently good enough.

You know how much I get the piss taken out of me for my rating of Tønne, but he simply isn't showing consistently that he's strong enough and has adapted to the British style of play. He's undoubtedly got talent, and he is capable of all the attributes he needs to show, but he needs to put them together as the skill and technique alone isn't stand out/regular enough to forgive him on the rest (unless of course he continues to score at the current rate). If he can show Wilson a few games in a row that he isn't just going to be forced off the ball and become anonymous, then I genuinely believe he'll get his chance.

Chappell, I'd love to see start, he used to sit a couple of rows in front of me as a nipper and is mates with old neighbors, but similarly, I don't think he's quite ready for the first team yet. I'd certainly give him 15/20 minutes from the bench to inject a bit of pace and genuine width, but I'd not throw him in for 90 minutes.

Philliskirk needs to quickly learn to do things purely on instinct or to improve on his releasing of the ball. He's gets into some fantastic positions, but is prone to dwelling on the ball and allowing his man to recover/get a tackle in. I thought he was in his best form playing with Tønne, but for me he just doesn't have any stand out attributes to offer something different to our current choices.

In summary, as much as I'd love to see them all playing first team every week I don't necessarily think Wilson is wrong to be leaving them out at the moment. If they don't get a look in all season and we persist in playing Williams/Westlake out of position, then I'll be quickly changing my mind on that... But at the moment, I totally understand his reasoning for only having them in and around.

I think had Whitehouse not done his foot we'd possibly not even be having this conversation now, for the last couple of years for me he's been the one showing the most consistency and most likely to be the next one they would trust to step up. Fingers crossed he can get back up to fitness and continue in the same vein, as he'll force his way in.

In that post you say that most of them aren't ready yet, but you do advocate giving some of them playing time at least, which indicates to me that you do see the value in actively trying to make youngsters ready, which we then agree on.

Regarding

Wilson isn't reluctant to play young players, he's using Maguire (though we have little cover/choice otherwise), he brought in Westlake who isn't much older than some of those who people are suggesting we bring through, his first choice striker is 22 and the man he's given nearly as much time to up there with him is only 19.

There's no point in playing youngsters for the sake of it. You play them to develop them in order to benefit in the future. Cofie will be gone in eight months, so doesn't count. I think you're wrong to say Maguire would have benefitted from not being first choice, and believe he is the outstanding talent that even Blackwell may have played. Westlake has played in one of eight matches, out of position, which didn't really work, and I doubt he'll play much more if McMahon stays fit. Both Westlake and Blackman has played quite a bit of first team football, and are therefore in a bit different category to the ones that hasn't featured at all.

Philliskirk is finished with us in my opinion. Tønne, Harriott and Chappell look likely to join.

 

[SwissBlade]

The point of Matty Harriott you ask? Well the point is for him to work his socks off to get into the first team.

Once there he has to work his way up to captain.

Now if he can be arsed to hang around for years, he'll eventually hit the middle age and then he'll finally hit pensionable age - now known as 31.

At 31 he will be rewarded with a new 3 year contract ( the terms of which won't be disclosed, but lets just assume we all think its a financially crippling deal).

At which point, the point of Matty Harriot will be clear. We can use him as a stick to beat the club with... And all the while we'll be on a 10 year record breaking unbeaten run, as long as you discount any games we've lost in this time