What happened to the heart of Sheffield United?

[matth]

Time was when Sheffield United were a football club with a heart, and with a soul. Ever the gutsy underdogs, they weren't the most skilful team in the league by a long chalk, but they ground out results because the players never gave up. They played to the whistle, they gave their all, and they were willing to run through a brick wall for the manager and the team.

As a fan, if you were talking to someone and football came up, there was always a grudging respect when it came out that you were a Blade. They might not have been everyone's cup of tea, but there was an appreciation there that this was a team who commanded loyalty from the fans and gave it back, that this was a team who never knew when they were beaten and wouldn't capitulate against foes from the league above, and that this was a team where a sense of unity ran like a lifeblood from the roots of the grass upwards. Nah nah nah nah, we were Blades, and we were Blades.

The team was exactly that: a group of players who weren't the most skilful, or the most talented, or the best at anything, really. What made the team so good was that together, they were far more than the sum of their parts. The football wasn't always pretty, it wasn't even always effective, but it was rare indeed that you'd come away from watching us play and say that the players on the pitch hadn't tried their hardest.

Fast forward to 2009. What's happened? Where once there was a team with a heart, there's a private company with a balance sheet. Where once there were gutsy underdogs, there are petulant prima-donnas who, it would seem, care little for the contract that binds them to the club. Results are still ground out, but instead of 90 minute battles, there are often 45 minutes or more of dissonant, unstructured running around, entirely without tactic or shape, followed by a period in which some genuinely attractive football is played and goals are scored as a consequence.

As a fan, if you're talking to someone and football comes up, the grudging respect for the club and its acolytes is all but gone. No longer a band of plucky, rag-tag soldiers, the club are disliked by many, with events such as the so-called 'Tevezgate', the incident in which the club's captain fractured the skull of an opponent, and the more recent controversy of the club's first-choice goalkeeper being caught with ephedrine in his bloodstream sapping a lot of the goodwill that was previously extended by true football fans.

Nor is it any longer a case of 'we're all Blades together'. Schisms and splits in rank have caused Blade to rise up against Blade. Simplistic analysis puts the typical Blade into one of two camps: clapper or moaner. Inaccurate as this is, it is still used as a weapon by people who supposedly support the same club to beat their fellow fans.

Criticism of the club is shouted down by a group of ultimately well-meaning but blinkered individuals who cannot separate criticism from loathing. 'Get yourself to Hillsborough' is an oft-repeated epithet aimed at anyone who dares to question the regime; another tired cliché trotted out is that the current leaders of the club are the best we've ever had, so complaining about them is not allowed.

That's not to say that those on the other side of the fence are any better. There are an equal number of fans who dismiss anything positive that is said as propoganda, as mere 'happy clapping', as unrealistic toeing of the party line.

The moderate fan stands somewhere inbetween, often put off from stating their opinions for fear of being shouted down by the more obnoxious members of the two warring factions. A civil war of sorts is taking place: the discord on the pitch translated and amplified into the terraces and the messageboards. Where did it all go so wrong?

Is it that there are more people with easier access to a soap-box, thanks to the internet? Is it that the Blades lost their heart and soul when they got to the promised land of the Premiership? Is it that football is changing massively, and what's happening to the Blades and the fanbase is symptomatic of a wider malaise with Sky and the corporate world of advertising revenue at its dark heart? Or has it always been like this, and my perception's changing as I get older?

I'd be genuinely interested in hearing what people think. Thanks for taking the time to read this - I know it's a long one, but I feel better for writing it down.

 

[Grecian2000]

For me, personally, it's not a problem that has sprung up with Sheffield United but a problem with the game itself.

It is no longer played by "ordinary blokes" who live and work amongst the rest of society, but by a class of individuals who don't really give a toss about the club (and by definition the fans of that club) but are simply driven by how much money their next contract, wherever it may be, will get them.
One week kissing the badge whilst the next looking around for a move to greener pastures.

When I was a kid I worshipped the ground that the players walked upon and many a time would simply walk past some of their house (I lived quite near David Powell) to catch a glimpse of them in civvies. Nowadays I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire. I pay my money to watch them play for the club I've always loved but they are simply employees doing a job as far as i am concerned, to be no more worshipped than the ticket office staff.

Football is now a money obsessed cess pit of greed. It will eat itself!

 

[Autumn]

I often feel that the comfortable nature of the Championship is where the board wish us to be. It's left us able to build a business around the club, yet neglecting the one thing we should be focusing on.
For me a chairman should have money avaliable, and use that money for the sqaud, not outside activities. I sometimes feel Mccabe does not what to use his own money, but would rather generate it by the business ventures instead.
The premiership I feel didn't sit right with our focus, and even now I feel it wouldn't, until we are more than comfortable money wise.

I love United, and will support them just like Leeds fans stick by their club....

I just wish one of these billionaires would by our club, and focus on what United and being a Blade really means....FOOTBALL

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

It's not what it was, but in some ways nothing has changed. Blades fans have always been, by-and-large, moody, mardy and grumpy sods. I stood on the kop for years hearing old boys around me do nothing but moan and complain season after season. Difference is that this is all now 'published' as well as shouted.

The game in general is much as Grecian (does that mean he's an old git or living in Exeter? ) tells it. Most people think football began in 1993, and much as it grates to say so, football as it is today probably did. They are almost two different sports, the pre-sky/PL days and football now. Shame!

 

[JJ Sefton]

Can I ask if you're old enough to actually remember this bygone Golden Age you're harking back to? I'm 28 so maybe I'm too young but most of the things you complain about have been present for as long as Ive been a Blade.

You talk about “gutsy underdogs” which is, Id say, another way of saying perennial underachievers. Given that we are a Second Division club Id argue that that is one thing that hasn’t changed.

Id agree that apart from a few months under Spackman and spells in the 2002-2003 and 2005-2006 seasons we haven’t been “the most skillful team in the league by a long chalk” in my years watching the club. But if were going to look back why not look further back to the early 70’s, before my time, when we were exactly that?

Id also disagree with the notion that “the grudging respect for the club and its acolytes is all but gone”. Growing up in London when I used to tell people I was from Sheffield they always used to say “Oh, a Wednesday fan?”. Since about 2003 that has not happened to me once and now I get “Oh, a United fan?”.

You bring up ‘Tevezgate’ but blaming us for that is like blaming Walter the Softy for getting picked on by Dennis the Menace. We were wronged and we fought it and we won. Isn't that part of the ‘never say die’ attitude you'd eulogise?

While Paddy’s indiscretions are regrettable he is not the first to have had this happen. Also, I didn’t see much respect lost for Birmingham when Eduardo has his leg broke, for Port Vale when Dane Whitehouse’s leg got broke or for Manchester United when David Busst’s leg got broke. These terrible incidents are part of football sadly. Outside of Barnsley and Martin Samuels imagination, no one give two hoots about the Morgan-Hume incident.

You say that “A civil war of sorts is taking place”. All I can say is that you must have missed the Southend away match at the end of Bassett’s reign. If this is a civil war that was the Russian Front. “Schisms and splits in rank” have always happened. I remember when Bassett was taking us from Division Three to Division One in consecutive seasons, there were still fans moaning about the style of play.

“Or has it always been like this, and my perception's changing as I get older?” Yes, its always been like this and your perceptions are changing as you get older. You should vote Conservative.

 

[beightonblade]

Don't worry Matt its still there ............ yer just have to look a little harder thats all.

 

[DuncDisorderly]

they weren't the most skilful team in the league by a long chalk, but they ground out results because the players never gave up. They played to the whistle, they gave their all, and they were willing to run through a brick wall for the manager and the team.

What you are describing is a team who weren't good enough, who's pleasure was in winning the odd battle. Thats what Wednesday do now. They're up to their neck in it, but if they can beat us, then all's well with the world. We used to be like that, but not anymore. Our task is getting into the top two and being promoted. I dont think we should take the 'being comfortably in the top end of the CCC' as being a bad thing. We came down with Watford and Charlton. Look where they are...

The old chestnut about McCabes business interests. Jeez. I thought this have been put to bed by now. I know some people think he should spend every penny he has on our whims, but get some reality. We're well funded and well managed as a club, and the other business interests support the playing side, not detract from it. He manages an international property development business that has made him a wealthy man for goodness sake. What hasn't he done for this club, that sitting in an office at Bramall Lane would make any difference to.

As for the fans, dont kid yourself that 20 years a go there weren't big differences of opinion about players, managers, and what was going on. The relentless soundbite and the stereotyping is a more modern phenomenon and just reflects society in general and media coverage in particular where you have to be pigeon-holed, because you only have 3 seconds to get your view across.

Of course, places like this forum encourage know-nowts and the odd people with general anger management problems to spew out their opinions ad nauseum, all in the comfort of anonimity. 20 years ago you had to do it in a pub tap room with the possibility of getting a punch in the face if you didn't behave yourself. Of course, if some arse was spouting off, and the punch in the face option wasn't you, you could always drink up and go somewhere else.

The problem is us. Its the people in society, our expectations of life, our demands, what we think of as ourselves as customers of the club, not just its supporters. More than anything it is about what we think as the value of our opinions, just because we can type it into a screen for the whole world to see. Actually the whole world can see them, but still no-one cares.

Maybe that's why we repeat ourselves so often, positive posters and negative alike. Maybe we just want everyone to see the sense that we write, and have an epiphany, a realisation that they were wrong and we were right all the time. Maybe we all just want to change the world to be a bit more like how we think it should be...

 

[matth]

Walthy, I'm 30, and in my time following the Blades, things have definitely changed. Perhaps I make it sound a whole lot more romantic, but to me we used to be characterised by our never-say-die attitude and our team ethic. We used to laugh at teams like us with a load of overpaid nancies poncing around the pitch. Monty and Morgan are pretty much the only two of that dying breed I see in the squad now.

I think you're confusing exposure with respect, as well. We get a lot more exposure now, but in my opinion, a lot more respect. When I talk to people I don't know about the Blades they moan about the things I mentioned. Whilst I know that the Tevez affair wasn't our fault, it's debatable about whether there was any culpability with the Hume incident, and Paddy's actions are indefensible. That said, it's other people's perceptions, and there's nothing we can do about that. I'm not saying we shouldn't have fought against the Tevez thing, but the fact remains that a lot of other fans use it as a stick to beat us - rightly or wrongly.

Schisms and splits in rank may always have happened, but they do seem to me to be getting worse; deeper and more vocal, and more regular. My own experience on this board has changed since I joined - there seems to be a lot more discord now than there was previously, although I'm sure that at least part of that is due to the greater volume of people on here now.

Finally, thanks for the political advice, but I already do vote Conservative.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

There's a saying that Manchester United fans have used for as long as I can remember - "love the shirt, hate the club", not often that I'd point to them as shining examples but after 17 years of missionary work on this side of the Pennines I've come to realise that they have a point.

What narks me is the constant moaning and mumping amongst supporters about other supporters. It's probably a function of mediocrity on the field, but all of the moaning an mumping about who's the biggest blade and who's right and wrong is one of the reasons I sometimes can't be arsed.

I love watching the Blades, and some of the afternoons in pubs up and down the land I've had with mates and strangers all coming together is the thing that keeps it going. The saddest thing about Wembley for me was not losing (that was never in doubt for me), was not the lack of passion on the field (our track record throws up at least a 50% chance of that in big games) but actually the flat atmosphere in the bars before the game.

I'm actually pretty comfortable that we're on target for nearly 2 points / game so far and am under no illusion that the aim is to be in touch at Xmas (as it is every year). I want to be a Premier League team, but I'll be pissed off by loads of it when we get there.

I'm absolutely certain that we're better off now than we were 10 years ago, pretty comfortable with where we've gone since 2002/3 (remember we were still absolutely potless in spite of the cup runs) and I actually don't think that the current board are running the club just to milk us blades dry / take the piss because they think we're all mugs.

All I crave is the bit of perspective that stops us all bitching with each other just because some other club has spent more, had more invested than we have. Let's go to the pub, shout ourselves hoarse and go home and get on with our lives. Remember the Sheffied United Football Club is a distraction from real-life, not the reason for living. It's what we do with the distraction that makes it a pleasure or a pain.

 

[JJ Sefton]

Id argue we still do have a “never-say-die attitude”, or as much as we ever did at least. And the never say die thing is really only Bassett and Warnock, we said die plenty of times under McEwan, Kendall, Bruce, Heath and Robson.

Do we get less respect? When I was growing up, as I say, most people assumed you were a Pig and you had to explain to them who United were when you corrected them. You get bugger all respect if people haven’t got the faintest clue who you are.

We have the same “Schisms and splits” we’ve always had. The difference is that now its not just in the pub with your mates for a couple of hours after the game. Now we have the internet and can log on and indulge in infighting 24/7.

 

[Kev Gee]

I think its more to do with modern day football than The Blades.

Long gone are the days when teams like Norwich, Ipswich & forest would be fighting for Europe.
The Premiership is now split into 3 mini leagues. the top 5, then the middle teams like Everton, Bolton & Villa and those fighting for there lives like Burnley, Wolves & Hull.

I think its too easy for teams to get comforable in the Championship now. after all why risk the clubs future by spending big to get into the Premiership, then spend even more to keep you there, only to be relegated and millions in debt 3 years later.

So i actually think that the Premiership & modern day football are to blame.

 

[matth]

We have the same “Schisms and splits” we’ve always had. The difference is that now its not just in the pub with your mates for a couple of hours after the game. Now we have the internet and can log on and indulge in infighting 24/7.

God bless the wonders of the modern world!

 

[Bramley]

Maybe being away from Sheffield helps, but coming back it amazes me by how overwhelmingly negative everyone is, particularly in comparison with Wednesday. I used to listen to P&G when I was younger and laugh at how much the pigs complained about everything, now it's the opposite way around.

Talking to my Blackpool supporting mate at work, he thinks its hilarious when I tell him the latest knee-jerk reaction. Why not just try and be positive, and ENJOY IT.

We're all Blades aren't we?

COME ON YOU RED AND WHITE WIZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARDS!

 

[Maidenhead]

I love watching the Blades, and some of the afternoons in pubs up and down the land I've had with mates and strangers all coming together is the thing that keeps it going. The saddest thing about Wembley for me was not losing (that was never in doubt for me), was not the lack of passion on the field (our track record throws up at least a 50% chance of that in big games) but actually the flat atmosphere in the bars before the game.

Well said that man.

It's not all about results it's about the craic. On that note I want to thank Alex, John and the 3 other guys I didn't know that kept me company for a few beers after the game in Reading because the Evertonian I was supposed to be staying down there to see had bu**ered off to Blackpool.

That's what being a Blades is all about, and the win was just a nice bonus.

 

[mall]

This topic would not be valid if Sheffield United had ever found the means and intelligence to be where the Premiership top four are.
In all of my time watching this club (considerable decades) they have barely left a ripple on football's lake.
Why?... I can only think of the time when we where the top of division one. Played 10, won 8...then Manchester United at Old Trafford... George Best...the rest is buried in a welter of not understanding how to build on Currie, Salmons etc and turn that useful platform into a solid springboard for the future.
The manager then was John Harris, bless him. He could build on youth etc but couldn't handle the philosophy of stardom for players and razamataz.
That was the fulcrum which pitched Sheffield United into the dark of perenial underachievers. Since then we have had some false dawns which amounted to a season maybe of promise, then someone lost their collective nerve and sold the family silver..once again. Sound familiar?

 

[SwissBlade]

Its still there Matth, its just that we've had a couple of years chasing a dream thats so close that you can touch it. The dream of promotion.

The PL experience was soured when we went down, it was the end of the NW era and things seemed to get serious. Suddenly we're battling through the courts, selling Jags and the heart of that team and then spending 2,3, 4 million on players.

We were having a good laugh before then, but now we're all too serious, all too busy checking the balance sheets and online forums instead of sitting in a boozer and talking of that goal by Brown/ Jags/ Nuddy/ Pesch etc

The heart's still in the club and unfortunately we're not pushing the dream of a play off spot now, Its a MUST to get promotion.

I wish we could get back to the days when a win was a win no matter how it came as long as we worked hard and ground out a result we were reasonably happy.

Christ we even have young lads calling themselves ultras to try and be European in some way.

The lane for me is always special and since all the shite of relegation etc My love of english football and its principles has drifted but my love of the Blades has just got stronger.

I feel closer to the Blades now than ever before.

Up the Blades!

 

[lenners]

United aren't much different to any other team in the land apart from the level of underachievement which outstrips the rest.
Losing every major game to the point that last time out virtually no-one thought we'd win is bound to take its toll. Part of watching a club like United is rooted in the belief that we can enjoy genuine success at some point but consistent failure has eroded that belief and made the heart weaker.
We're currently stuck with a workaday manager and workaday team and told it's the Blades Way.
If that's how the club's hierarchy perceives us it's no wonder that the fans feel a bit 'so what'.
Selling the quality players who came through the ranks only adds to the perception of us not really building anything substantial on the pitch.

 

[beightonblade]

This topic would not be valid if Sheffield United had ever found the means and intelligence to be where the Premiership top four are.
In all of my time watching this club (considerable decades) they have barely left a ripple on football's lake.
Why?... I can only think of the time when we where the top of division one. Played 10, won 8...then Manchester United at Old Trafford... George Best...the rest is buried in a welter of not understanding how to build on Currie, Salmons etc and turn that useful platform into a solid springboard for the future.
The manager then was John Harris, bless him. He could build on youth etc but couldn't handle the philosophy of stardom for players and razamataz.
That was the fulcrum which pitched Sheffield United into the dark of perenial underachievers. Since then we have had some false dawns which amounted to a season maybe of promise, then someone lost their collective nerve and sold the family silver..once again. Sound familiar?

and i can remember that game like it were yesterday ............ Owd Trafford was packed out lots of Blades arrived to late to get in, even then they were re developing the ground new stand at the away end..... me and a few other Blades watched the match on the Stretford End ...... if our full back wern't out through injury owd Bestie wud never have scored ....... mind yer if granny gert had balls she'd be grandad gert !

 

[Houso]

Do you have a speech impediment BB?

 

[mall]

Quote ...... if our full back wern't out through injury owd Bestie wud never have scored .......




...and didn't Harris play Gil Reece at left back?
.. and didn't the goalkeeper rush out so far giving Best the only option possible to shoot at, despite Badger's valiant attempt at a line clearance.

 

[Guesty]

Wasn't Reece only playing left back because Hemsley had been kicked out of the game? That's what I'd heard anyone.

Best was trying to cross it anyway.

 

[mall]

Yeah, that's right.
my point was that he couldn't tackle and it was a tactical error by Harris.
I not only saw it live but enumerable replays for years after that...Best wasn't trying to cross it, he had been provided the perfect opportunity in what was a very difficult position, to score. He had been pushed very wide during his long run but the goalkeeper had made a decision to block him out wide, and didn't get there.

 

[Darren]

Yeah, that's right.
my point was that he couldn't tackle and it was a tactical error by Harris.
I not only saw it live but enumerable replays for years after that...Best wasn't trying to cross it, he had been provided the perfect opportunity in what was a very difficult position, to score. He had been pushed very wide during his long run but the goalkeeper had made a decision to block him out wide, and didn't get there.

Given that Hemsley was injured and there was only one sub in those days and that Reece was the sub, who would you have put at left back and where would Reece have fitted in? Perhaps Flynn could have gone to LB (he had played there before) but who would then have replaced him at CB?

isn't it wonderful to have 7 subs

 

[oldblade]

United aren't much different to any other team in the land apart from the level of underachievement which outstrips the rest.
Losing every major game to the point that last time out virtually no-one thought we'd win is bound to take its toll. Part of watching a club like United is rooted in the belief that we can enjoy genuine success at some point but consistent failure has eroded that belief and made the heart weaker.
We're currently stuck with a workaday manager and workaday team and told it's the Blades Way.
If that's how the club's hierarchy perceives us it's no wonder that the fans feel a bit 'so what'.
Selling the quality players who came through the ranks only adds to the perception of us not really building anything substantial on the pitch.

Now, now Len, don't exaggerate. Birmingham City far outstrip ourselves in the under achievemnt stakes. You even admitted this once on the Blades United board!

 

[lenners]

Now, now Len, don't exaggerate. Birmingham City far outstrip ourselves in the under achievemnt stakes. You even admitted this once on the Blades United board!

Nope, you must be thinking of someone else.
Brum have made a cup final in recent years and also spent more time in the Prem.
Don't know what their average gates are over the decades but they've generally been poor in my lifetime - less now than ours for example.

 

[travellingblade]

It's 5:30 a.m. and I've just logged on to read one of the best ever threads about United and our supporters. Thank you.

Next week, I get my free bus pass, and can get a "consession" ticket at Bramall Lane, so I'm one of the older generation, but mind you I'm far from passed it.

I must admit that I'm fairly pleased as to where the Blades are right now. Just have a look at what the BBC said about us last week on the late night Saturday programme, where they linked us with West Brom, as being one of the Heavyweights of the Championship, but most importantly a club that is well run "off the field".

In my day, we were without a doubt, Sheffield's second team. We nearly went broke. We went into the 4th Division, In my youth I could watch the likes of Mick Jones, Birchenall, Woodwood, Badger, etc and we went to the top of the 1st Division, for a couple of weeks, and just missed out on Europe, but it was downhill from there onwards.

Remember the night against Port Vale (NO, not the recent one), we were about to go down into a BIG black hole. But what happened, in came Warnock and everything changed.

I have a saying that you cannot change history, but you can learn from it.

I believe that McCabe has learnt from our history. I like where we are right now. Be honest, IF we had won the play-off final last season, do you think that ANYONE's attitude towards the club would have changed?

In my opinion, NO, just we'd be struggling in the Premiership right now, and we'd be moaning about it. I hope we have learnt from last season, and can gain automatic promotion this season, but it'll be tough, tough, tough.

Whatever happens, I'll be here supporting the Blades (God willing)

 

[parisblade]

Maybe being away from Sheffield helps, but coming back it amazes me by how overwhelmingly negative everyone is, particularly in comparison with Wednesday.

I'm not so sure. I only get to 6/7 home games a seasons and a couple of away games but the excitement and banter is still the same in our group of South Standers. The criticism is probably more constructive and the praise and elation is just the same. And one thing hasn't changed, the humour. Basically, we still really enjoy a good day out watching the footy and having a few beers afterwards.

The club has definitely changed, and in my humble opinion, for the better. We have a ground that is the pride of the Championship (and better than most in the PL), a board that have steered us to financial stability and one of the best academies in the north producing talent. I thought James Harper's interview (and other newbies over the last couple of years) was interesting due to his repetition of the "massive club, great fanbase" PR stuff but also because he clearly states that teams don't like playing us. That's from a player, I also know a lot of fans from other teams that don't like coming to BDTBL

With regards to the atmosphere, everybody blames the middle classes and the prawn sandwich mob but in reality I think you've got to look at the safety measures the FA have put in place following Hillsborough, etc. Football in the 70s, 80s and some of the 90s was predominantly followed by 20-40 yr old males who used football as a release. Nowadays, families can go to just about any ground in the country and feel safe. The songs aren't as good though

Anyways, just my 2 pennies worth and excuse my ramblings. I'm one of Dunc's famous know nowts you know

 

[Darren]

Nope, you must be thinking of someone else.
Brum have made a cup final in recent years and also spent more time in the Prem.
Don't know what their average gates are over the decades but they've generally been poor in my lifetime - less now than ours for example.

I'm with you on this. United are something like the 15th best supported club in the country and for a club like that to have won nothing since 1925, not reached a cup final since 1936 and to have spent only 5 of the last 34 years in the top division is a shocking state of affairs.

Middlesbrough used to be the biggest under-acheivers in football (having won nothing in their history despite a large fan base) but given that, since 1997 they have been in 5 cup finals (winning 1 and 1 being a European final) and have spent most of that time in the PL, no-one now can possibly compete with the mighty Blades for the Under-Achievers Challenge Cup.

 

[parisblade]

I'm with you on this. United are something like the 15th best supported club in the country and for a club like that to have won nothing since 1925, not reached a cup final since 1936 and to have spent only 5 of the last 34 years in the top division is a shocking state of affairs.

So what you're saying is that we are still the underdogs that everyone is hankering over? Proves the point that the game and fans are what has changed.

 

[ghandi]

Walthy, I'm 30, and in my time following the Blades, things have definitely changed. Perhaps I make it sound a whole lot more romantic, but to me we used to be characterised by our never-say-die attitude and our team ethic. We used to laugh at teams like us with a load of overpaid nancies poncing around the pitch. Monty and Morgan are pretty much the only two of that dying breed I see in the squad now.

I think you're confusing exposure with respect, as well. We get a lot more exposure now, but in my opinion, a lot more respect. When I talk to people I don't know about the Blades they moan about the things I mentioned. Whilst I know that the Tevez affair wasn't our fault, it's debatable about whether there was any culpability with the Hume incident, and Paddy's actions are indefensible. That said, it's other people's perceptions, and there's nothing we can do about that. I'm not saying we shouldn't have fought against the Tevez thing, but the fact remains that a lot of other fans use it as a stick to beat us - rightly or wrongly.

Schisms and splits in rank may always have happened, but they do seem to me to be getting worse; deeper and more vocal, and more regular. My own experience on this board has changed since I joined - there seems to be a lot more discord now than there was previously, although I'm sure that at least part of that is due to the greater volume of people on here now.

Finally, thanks for the political advice, but I already do vote Conservative.

Hmm I wonder if the deeper schisms and wider splits started at the same time as the deeper schisms and wider splits appeared in society delivered by Thatcherism caused by people voting Conservative.