We've been Swiss Rambled - Accounts explained

[Carlton Blade]

 

[Balham]

I read that as a football club being run somewhere close to a normal business. Some of the numbers of the other clubs in the PL are eye-watering: Brighton's debt of £306m?! Everton and Leicester reporting losses of more than £100m??!!

 

[JohnDenver]

Some might like to note this:

 

[Carlton Blade]

Some might like to note this:

I saw that. For all the good work there's certainly an argument that they picked long term attempts at sustainability over short term gains. I have no idea if that was the right move but I get it. Maybe a consequence of the owner not having the money to "rescue" the club?

 

[Need4speed]

But the gulf between what we got in revenue 2019/2020 to 2020/2021 will be significant due to finishing so much lower and COVID then 2021/2022 we will be even less especially if restricted crowds. Part of me thinks we were too cautious and part of me is glad we didn,t blow money big style Certainly with COVID getting to the PL has been a god send and may mean we can compete financially in the Championship next season and beyond if necessary.

 

[metalblade]

I wonder what our resident Brighton troll has to say about the Brighton & HA levels of debt?

 

[Rufus Smalls]

How can ANY club be allowed to operate where their wage bill exceeds their turnover ??

If I was self-employed and did that I'd be bankrupt, surely ?

What the hell is going on with football club's finances these days.

 

[JohnDenver]

I saw that. For all the good work there's certainly an argument that they picked long term attempts at sustainability over short term gains. I have no idea if that was the right move but I get it. Maybe a consequence of the owner not having the money to "rescue" the club?

I wasn’t implying a criticism of these choices. We were reasonably cautious in the context of the wider PL madness. But the owners haven’t had their hands in the till either.

It just looks like responsible stewardship to me, although failing to bounce back will still see some ugly decisions being made in future. Seems unavoidable given the epic step down in income. Not really news.

 

[SwissBlade]

I’m fine with this. Club has said all along that sustainability is the long term goal and this is reflected.

Wilder also reiterated this when he talked about both leaving the club in a better place than he arrived, not gambling the clubs future and that we weren’t competitive in both fees and wages.

What is bizarre is the Princes delusion that we’re bringing in anything other than championship players and trying to convince sponsors.

I’m happy with us yo-yoing between Championship and prem to develop and transition up the ranks as long as it’s sustainable.

 

[Balham]

I wonder what our resident Brighton troll has to say about the Brighton & HA levels of debt?

That debt is to Tony Bloom so it's not a problem (yet). If I was Bloom though I'd be questioning why £300m of investment has brought a maximum of 15th place and an aim of finishing 17th every season.

 

[Carlton Blade]

I’m fine with this. Club has said all along that sustainability is the long term goal and this is reflected.

Wilder also reiterated this when he talked about both leaving the club in a better place than he arrived, not gambling the clubs future and that we weren’t competitive in both fees and wages.

What is bizarre is the Princes delusion that we’re bringing in anything other than championship players and trying to convince sponsors.

I’m happy with us yo-yoing between Championship and prem to develop and transition up the ranks as long as it’s sustainable.

I think the owners job is to sell what the club is doing publicly to be fair.

And only signing Championship players was a decision that at the very least heavily involved everyone in a decision making position in the club. We backed ourselves into a corner in terms of potentially signing players who'd provide more value than the fee we paid for them

 

[Keen Blade]

Half the squad needs replacing this summer which will be expensive. And next season our income will drop. Hopefully we have amassed a financial cushion to achieve the squad changes

 

[robbiez666]

All looks fairly sensible and as expected. If we'd have stayed up then it would have given us a strong platform to recruit well.

 

[BushBlade]

How can ANY club be allowed to operate where their wage bill exceeds their turnover ??

If I was self-employed and did that I'd be bankrupt, surely ?

What the hell is going on with football club's finances these days.

These days? It’s been happening for at least 30 years.

 

[Scarebus]

Half the squad needs replacing this summer which will be expensive. And next season our income will drop. Hopefully we have amassed a financial cushion to achieve the squad changes

Depends on which pond those in charge of buying decide to cast their nets.

 

[Houston_Blade]

I’m fine with this. Club has said all along that sustainability is the long term goal and this is reflected.

Wilder also reiterated this when he talked about both leaving the club in a better place than he arrived, not gambling the clubs future and that we weren’t competitive in both fees and wages.

What is bizarre is the Princes delusion that we’re bringing in anything other than championship players and trying to convince sponsors.

I’m happy with us yo-yoing between Championship and prem to develop and transition up the ranks as long as it’s sustainable.

Fully agree with the point that sustainability isn’t a bad thing and also agree that to be sustainable we can’t really sustain a PL team.

The only teams that can sustain long term PL status have to pay silly wages and when you’re a lower PL team it means that revenue is often less than the wages you need to pay to stay there.

In order to remain profitable we need to start cutting back heavily and/or yo-yo.

Football is fucked.

 

[BushBlade]

That debt is to Tony Bloom so it's not a problem (yet). If I was Bloom though I'd be questioning why £300m of investment has brought a maximum of 15th place and an aim of finishing 17th every season.

Doesn’t that include the cost of the stadium? Spread over the years he’s invested, it’s not that much. It just shows how much it costs to take a club from being a lower league club to a PL club. From memory he had to put a fair amount in just to get them into the PL.

 

[Balham]

Doesn’t that include the cost of the stadium? Spread over the years he’s invested, it’s not that much. It just shows how much it costs to take a club from being a lower league club to a PL club. From memory he had to put a fair amount in just to get them into the PL.

Probably. Wiki has the stadium construction cost at £93m then there's the new training ground too. All that and they're still only a temporary Premier League side, much like Stoke.

 

[BushBlade]

Fully agree with the point that sustainability isn’t a bad thing and also agree that to be sustainable we can’t really sustain a PL team.

The only teams that can sustain long term PL status have to pay silly wages and when you’re a lower PL team it means that revenue is often less than the wages you need to pay to stay there.

In order to remain profitable we need to start cutting back heavily and/or yo-yo.

Football is fucked.

It’s been like this for years. The principle was the same when we went up under Warnock, just smaller numbers, we still had the lowest wage bill in the PL. Overall, I’d say we’re better off though this time. Extra year’s parachute payments and a few players with sell on values. We only had Jaggi last time (and I think we got a bit back on LegsofWood and CKR). With a few additions in midfield, we’ve got a pretty good championship squad, providing the new bloke can restore their confidence and get them motivated. We’ve been wounded but we’re not dead yet.

But, as you imply, without external investment, we’ll probably have to be run very well, and have some luck in the way, for maybe ten years before we look like a club that’s going to spend most of the time in the PL; developing players, selling them on, reinvesting the money, developing players, selling them on, reinvesting the money......

 

[BushBlade]

Probably. Wiki has the stadium construction cost at £93m then there's the new training ground too. All that and they're still only a temporary Premier League side, much like Stoke.

Yeah and when you think the top six spend over £200m a year just on wages, £300m doesn’t seem that much, relatively speaking.

 

[wadblade]

What are the figures for Pork FC

 

[BushBlade]

What are the figures for Pork FC

Late again but my suspicion is they won’t be great. I think they may have made a bit of a loss.

 

[Superblades]

I wonder what our resident Brighton troll has to say about the Brighton & HA levels of debt?

If we were in debt of £300 million, I would be shitting it for the clubs future if the club lost its place in the Prem. I’m sure Bolton had similar debts?

 

[Balham]

Yeah and when you think the top six spend over £200m a year just on wages, £300m doesn’t seem that much, relatively speaking.

All relative. Arsenal's income in their latest accounts was the lowest of the 'big six' at £343m. You can afford £200m a year in wages when you're bringing in nearly £350m in income. Brighton's issue is that they're spending £103m on wages on income of £133m. That doesn't leave enough for their other costs and that's why they posted a loss of £67m in 2019/20.

 

[JohnDenver]

All relative. Arsenal's income in their latest accounts was the lowest of the 'big six' at £343m. You can afford £200m a year in wages when you're bringing in nearly £350m in income. Brighton's issue is that they're spending £103m on wages on income of £133m. That doesn't leave enough for their other costs and that's why they posted a loss of £67m in 2019/20.

Brighton scare me. They’ve had decent managers and have really pushed hard in their attempt to be become established.

All that time and vast expense seems have bought them very little comfort.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Brighton scare me. They’ve had decent managers and have really pushed hard in their attempt to be become established.

All that time and vast expense seems have bought them very little comfort.

They seem to be decently well run and have valuable players but at the same time be a few bad results from disaster.

 

[SwissBlade]

I think the owners job is to sell what the club is doing publicly to be fair.

And only signing Championship players was a decision that at the very least heavily involved everyone in a decision making position in the club. We backed ourselves into a corner in terms of potentially signing players who'd provide more value than the fee we paid for them

I don’t think the decision was wrong to develop the squad with Championship players. It’s the only thing we could do to remain stable and sustainable.

I actually agree with the recruitment, replacing our ageing squad of league one free transfers with young developing players is still right.

However, what I think was wrong and perhaps the fine line is convincing sponsors to invest by telling them that we’re a competitive premier league side with fabulous premier league signings. The princes recent comments are basically saying that Wilder shouldn’t have been so honest in the press conference as he’d told sponsors something different...

It’s not just us. I was watching football focus on Saturday and the pundits were saying that West Brom’s recruitment has been poor. Is it poor or is it realistic and sustainable? For me it’s the latter two

 

[robbiez666]

What are the figures for Pork FC

"Great victory. Glorious leadership. Massive achievement. Strong together. Passport to Premiership"

 

[gordoncharles]

I'm glad the club was/is run sensibly and last season it paid off in unimaginable ways. Having the lowest wage bill was always going to make relegation fairly likely, though, and the successes of the previous seasons mistakenly convinced everyone that we had a well functioning model.

Had this season not been so incredibly poor through the toxic mixture of reasons that continue to divide us, relegation would not be a disaster, as we will be in a vastly improved financial situation compared with the summer of 2018.

Although we have the lowest PL wage bill, though, it's still better (mostly much better, sometimes more than twice as much) as all but 8 teams in the Spanish League. This has been our achilles heel. We've spent over £100m on transfer fees alone in 3 windows since promotion, and the argument will remain as to whether that money would have been better spent if we'd ever had someone who knew something about football outside of the British Isles.

It's going to be impossible to say whether that deliberate policy (which I also put down in some part to hubris) has cost us, but the results of it have been clear as we've ended up fielding players this season who are way short of PL standard and will never appear in it again.

 

[Carlton Blade]

I don’t think the decision was wrong to develop the squad with Championship players. It’s the only thing we could do to remain stable and sustainable.

I actually agree with the recruitment, replacing our ageing squad of league one free transfers with young developing players is still right.

However, what I think was wrong and perhaps the fine line is convincing sponsors to invest by telling them that we’re a competitive premier league side with fabulous premier league signings. The princes recent comments are basically saying that Wilder shouldn’t have been so honest in the press conference as he’d told sponsors something different...

It’s not just us. I was watching football focus on Saturday and the pundits were saying that West Brom’s recruitment has been poor. Is it poor or is it realistic and sustainable? For me it’s the latter two

I think their are other markets available for signings than England and we missed out on a few opportunities. I also think the "this is who I really wanted" list was entirely unhelpful. Although Cash, Watkins, Wilson don't really move the needle for me either.

Like it or not (and he obviously didn't) the club was his employer and if his boss decided on a message he should have gone with it orresigndd on principle. But it's done now, no point really rehashing it.