Were falling a bit behind

[BristolBlade]

Whilst I'm not saying Doyle is a world beater, I would ask who we could replace him with. Seriously, we've gone from the completely clueless Nick Montgomery to the almost equally as useless Michael Doyle. We're in this division for a reason, we aren't very good. We don't have good first team players and the bench warmers aren't much better.

As I say, Doyle may need dropping but I've thrown in the towel with expecting us to pull some rabbit out of the hat and produce anyone who can do any better. I'm sick and fucking tired of having the same argument year after year because we have a bloke in ultimate charge who couldn't give two fucks whether we sink or swim. Maybe time to go Doyle, maybe time to go Wilson but for me the root of all evil will be the last to go, and that's McCabe. He got us where we are today and please don't expect him to bust a gut trying to get us out of it. I'm fed up with the lot of them, they aren't worth a shit.

If it was me in charge I'd seriously give Whitehouse a go, I thought his performance against Doncaster was good enough to keep a place in the side. He had a better game than Doyle that day however it seems this captains armband is glued to his bloody arm. Sorry but he offers nothing, maybe a fresh, young hungry academy prospect will show more commitment to the cause. Blame Wilson, McCabe by all means, however once any player crosses that white line they are responsible for their performances and Doyles have been dreadful.
On another issue like I've said before Kmac having a stinker then get Diego on give him his chance, so many will say too much youth in my thinking however if we keep sliding and dropping what I would class as easy points we will spend a third year in this division!

 

[Ollessendro]

I fear that the gap is already too much. I have seen little this season to suggest that we can get back in the top 2. In fact I have seen little in Wilson's managerial career that gives me confidence we can get out this division with him in charge. Wilson has managed several teams in this division and not managed to get any out. In 10 or so attempts with Bristol C, MK Dons, Hartlepool, Swindon and us he has never got promoted out of the 3rd tier. His teams have lost 3 times in the play off finals as well. Doesn't exactly give us confidence we will get promoted does it?

I got some stick earlier in the season for talking about Wilson's '2nd season syndrome'. It is not quite as clear cut as that, but at most clubs Wilson has a good season and then struggles afterwards. His only real achievement is getting the Dingles up to the Prem (15 years ago). At Hartlepool, MK Dons, Swindon and now us he came in and initially did well. But then started to struggle. The exception is Bristol, where his team got gradually better, but he failed to take them out of League One in 4 attempts. I do not know whether it is his transfers, stuggling to maintain the motivation of players or some other factors, but it has happened too many times for it to be bad luck. We were damn unlucky not to go up last year, but unfortunately I think that means we've see Danny Wilson's SUFC play their best football and it is now only going to keep getting worse. My opinion is that he blew his chance last year and I just cannot see him achieving success.

Basically we are talking about a very limited manager, struggling to get his team to challenge for promotion. As with many, I think Wilson is way too negative and far too conservative. His tactics have been pretty poor this term, he refuses to take chances, his subs are terrible and he rarely tries anything or anyone different. He has been outfoxed by several managers on several occassions this season. Teams have worked out how to play against us and Wilson has no answers. If teams press us hard, do not give K Mac any time and space, put 2 men on Blackman etc then we really struggle. Hartlepool and Yeovil recently did that to us. Moore got one over on Wilson too not long ago. Brentford was a similar story. We have not beat any of the top 7 this season and that tells it all.

I get as frsutrated with fickle United fans and doom mongers coming on here as everyone else, however I have to say that I would be amazed if we went up under Wilson this year. There is just nothing that I have seen to give me any belief that we will go on and run and get in the top 2, or that we can beat some of the impressive teams around us in the play offs (Brentford, Bournemouth, MK, Coventry or Swindon would see us off easily over 2 legs).

 

[sitwell]

Most of those 'impressive teams' are below us ,the gap can easily be made up ,everyone has indiffernet results ,wonder if Bournemouth and Brentford fans are slashing their wrists this morning. We will be there in the shake up and will get automatic promotion this season ,it only needs a couple of decent results ,a few players to get their form back , a couple of injured players back and the team to gel and we will go on a run. A draw at Notts is not the end of the season ,most teams would take that.
A lot are saying Wilsons attacking and freescoring team from last season cant be used in his defence but then harp back to this 2nd season bollocks which is a myth anyway ,we neede tightening up this season and perhaps this has been done to much at the cost of our attacking options ,now we are conceding some soft goals due to individual errors it needs attending to ,its not like Long is pulling out strings of saves every game.
I personally would bring Howard back as soon as he is fit ,I think George is struggling to impose himself at the moment ,and the return of Collins and Hill will strengthen the defence ,leaving Doyle and Macdonald to get their fingers out and produce more going forward. We will be OK.

 

[Bergen Blade]

If it was me in charge I'd seriously give Whitehouse a go, I thought his performance against Doncaster was good enough to keep a place in the side. He had a better game than Doyle that day however it seems this captains armband is glued to his bloody arm. Sorry but he offers nothing, maybe a fresh, young hungry academy prospect will show more commitment to the cause.

We changed our usual 4-4-2 formation vs Doncaster, playing 4-4-1-1 with Whitehouse supporting Kitson.

The main problem for me was that we were rigid and static. McDonald and Doyle were holding back, as were our full backs (McMahon and Hill). We looked defensive and reluctant to send players forward.

We basically had four players trying to create something.

Long​

McMahon Kennedy Higginbotham Hill​

Blackman McDonald Doyle Flynn​

Whitehouse​

Kitson​

A variation of this (both formations could well be described as 4-5-1), with the following tweaks:

• A more attacking mentality
• Full backs urged to go forward more
• Murphy and Blackman supporting Kitson from wide and swapping sides if things aren't working
• Doyle playing slightly deeper to compensate for other players going forward more
• Whitehouse and McDonald urged to bomb forward beyond Kitson

Long​

McMahon Maguire Higginbotham Westlake​

Doyle​

Whitehouse McDonald​

Blackman - - - - - -Kitson - - - - - - - - Murphy​

So while the rigid Doncaster set up saw us have four players trying to nick a goal, the above should hopefully have seven players expected to make real attacking contributions in a formation that encourages more roaming and allows more players more freedom.

 

[Fiery Blade]

Most of those 'impressive teams' are below us ,the gap can easily be made up ,everyone has indiffernet results ,wonder if Bournemouth and Brentford fans are slashing their wrists this morning. We will be there in the shake up and will get automatic promotion this season ,it only needs a couple of decent results ,a few players to get their form back , a couple of injured players back and the team to gel and we will go on a run. A draw at Notts is not the end of the season ,most teams would take that.
A lot are saying Wilsons attacking and freescoring team from last season cant be used in his defence but then harp back to this 2nd season bollocks which is a myth anyway ,we neede tightening up this season and perhaps this has been done to much at the cost of our attacking options ,now we are conceding some soft goals due to individual errors it needs attending to ,its not like Long is pulling out strings of saves every game.
I personally would bring Howard back as soon as he is fit ,I think George is struggling to impose himself at the moment ,and the return of Collins and Hill will strengthen the defence ,leaving Doyle and Macdonald to get their fingers out and produce more going forward. We will be OK.

Sitters, You're Priceless:
Having read the above I pictured you sauntering around the deck of the Titanic with a pair of binoculars telling the passengers to take in the view of that magnificent Iceberg or
Doing an impression of Michael Fish on the weather with the immortal words 'hurricane, what hurricane' !!
Have a word with Swiss he'll put you onto the right route for Cuckooland!

 

[KenMcnaughtsNuts]

So shall we just say that Tranmere and Doncaster have pulled away a bit because nobody else is doing much?

well its not just those two. brentford, swindon, bournemouth and coventry are all doing a lot better than they were early season. we were top cos, apart from tranmere, nobody else could string a few wins together. and at the time tranmere were having a wobbly spell. now were having our wobbly spell, like mk donuts, were being engulfed by half the league. difference is, the chances of us now going on a 6 or 7 winning streak is close to zero. we arent good enough. every game is a "try to stifle the opposition" borefest, so were bound to drop points regularly. best we can do realistically is sneak into the play offs.

 

[raul]

Good stuff that Bergs, but for me the biggest reason for our more conservative approach this season is simply that the players aren't as good as last seasons in the wide areas. DW has recognised this and set up accordingly. You could also construct an argument that the recent poor run has come about because we've tried to be more attacking than earlier in the season when we were winning games 1-0, but people were unhappy with how we were doing it.

 

[Worksop II]

simply that the players aren't as good as last seasons in the wide areas. DW has recognised this and set up accordingly

I am not sure if he has recognised it, but if that is the case he is responsible for it.

I wonder when Danny is gonna unveil his "Deane and Agana" or are we waiting for someone getting out on Probation

 

[Latters]

I am not sure if he has recognised it, but if that is the case he is responsible for it.

I wonder when Danny is gonna unveil his "Deane and Agana" or are we waiting for someone getting out on Probation

I doubt very much he wanted to lose Jean Francois, Williamson, Lowton and Quinn. All four of our wide players. He had a nigh on impossible task trying to replace all of them with nob all money. Add to that losing Evans. What on earth is he supposed to do? With the budget he's had I think he's done well to get in who he has. Needless to say they're worse than the players they're replacing, but we've spent jack shit, why would we expect to get equal or better players?

If he'd had plenty to spend, then I'd moan about him. He hasn't, McCabe is the tosser.

 

[KenMcnaughtsNuts]

we havent a prayer of finishing within 10 points of tranmere, doncaster, swindon or brentford. the fans, the players, the manager all have slipped into a mentality that we have to go up...without actually having a squad of players that has any chance of delivering it. we have a manager who is scared of us losing, cos he knows were expected to go up. we have players who are scared of us losing, for the same reason.

best thing would to be clear out half the squad, sign some livelier players with more fight and ambition. stick more of the youngsters in. say look we arent going up this year, but we dont need to. take the pressure off. and steadily improve. maybe this time next year we'll be the new brentford or bournemouth snapping at the heels of the promotion race, just happy to be involved in the race. instead of being useless duffers trying to grind out a 1-0 every game.

 

[Worksop II]

maybe this time next year we'll be the new brentford or bournemouth

We have the manager to accomplish this

 

[KenMcnaughtsNuts]

We have the manager to accomplish this

no. not really. i see your point! we dont really have the mccabe to do it either yup were in a pickle arent we!

 

[sitwell]

we havent a prayer of finishing within 10 points of tranmere, doncaster, swindon or brentford. the fans, the players, the manager all have slipped into a mentality that we have to go up...without actually having a squad of players that has any chance of delivering it. we have a manager who is scared of us losing, cos he knows were expected to go up. we have players who are scared of us losing, for the same reason.

best thing would to be clear out half the squad, sign some livelier players with more fight and ambition. stick more of the youngsters in. say look we arent going up this year, but we dont need to. take the pressure off. and steadily improve. maybe this time next year we'll be the new brentford or bournemouth snapping at the heels of the promotion race, just happy to be involved in the race. instead of being useless duffers trying to grind out a 1-0 every game.

Meanwhile back in the real world ,really is that a serious posting ?

 

[sitwell]

Sitters, You're Priceless:
Having read the above I pictured you sauntering around the deck of the Titanic with a pair of binoculars telling the passengers to take in the view of that magnificent Iceberg or
Doing an impression of Michael Fish on the weather with the immortal words 'hurricane, what hurricane' !!
Have a word with Swiss he'll put you onto the right route for Cuckooland!

Hilarious , I think ,tell me what Ive got wrong.

 

[Fiery Blade]

I doubt very much he wanted to lose Jean Francois, Williamson, Lowton and Quinn. All four of our wide players. He had a nigh on impossible task trying to replace all of them with nob all money. Add to that losing Evans. What on earth is he supposed to do? With the budget he's had I think he's done well to get in who he has. Needless to say they're worse than the players they're replacing, but we've spent jack shit, why would we expect to get equal or better players?

If he'd had plenty to spend, then I'd moan about him. He hasn't, McCabe is the tosser.

If we are up to our 65% quota on Financial Fair Play (or Pub League equivalent) then we pay more than any other team in this division.
The fact that he's paying for the likes of Cresswell, Philliskirk, Tonne, who are not deemed good enough to get into the first team, Williams, Westlake, McAllister (i know he has now left)Porter, who shouldn't be good enough to get into the first team added to the new contracts to Collins, Doyle and Kitson it all adds up to a lot of wasted money.
Other sides with far less resources and capable of generating far less revenue appear to be able to function well and attract good players!
Don't keep quoting money - there are other issues Man Management, Tactics, Motivation from the management and Heart, Effort, Pride, and Professionalism from the players are all responsible for our current plight.

 

[Fiery Blade]

Hilarious , I think ,tell me what Ive got wrong.

Where do I start?
Bournemouth and Brentford fans won't be slashing their wrists as it's both their first setbacks for a couple of months - we have won four in thirteen matches
We won't be in the shake up at the end of the season as we're going backwards at present - we have to arrest the slide and even being 1-0 against ten men didn't get us going!
We've tightened our defence ? yet we still give away 'soft' goals week in week out due to individual errors - a contradiction in terms!
Wilson second season disappointments - it's not a myth it has actually happened on his last four jobs!
Doyle and MacDonald have a much chance of getting their finger out than the little lad who stopped the flood in Holland - no chance - Both are overpaid prima donnas with little or no heart and no balls! There's no fight in them!
We are leaderless on and off the pitch, our chairman doesn't give a toss, Wilson thinks the fans fall for his line of aftermatch bullshit and Doyle needs to take a few lessons off Morgan if he has any prententions to be a captain!
In the mix more like in the sh!t!

 

[BladeFisher]

Most of those 'impressive teams' are below us ,the gap can easily be made up ,everyone has indiffernet results ,wonder if Bournemouth and Brentford fans are slashing their wrists this morning. We will be there in the shake up and will get automatic promotion this season ,it only needs a couple of decent results ,a few players to get their form back , a couple of injured players back and the team to gel and we will go on a run. A draw at Notts is not the end of the season ,most teams would take that.
A lot are saying Wilsons attacking and freescoring team from last season cant be used in his defence but then harp back to this 2nd season bollocks which is a myth anyway ,we neede tightening up this season and perhaps this has been done to much at the cost of our attacking options ,now we are conceding some soft goals due to individual errors it needs attending to ,its not like Long is pulling out strings of saves every game.
I personally would bring Howard back as soon as he is fit ,I think George is struggling to impose himself at the moment ,and the return of Collins and Hill will strengthen the defence ,leaving Doyle and Macdonald to get their fingers out and produce more going forward. We will be OK.

Yeah 2 four points from a possible 12. Blip form my arse. Its disarrrrrstrous darlings. Craig's vote is a 2.

 

[Ollessendro]

Most of those 'impressive teams' are below us ,the gap can easily be made up ,everyone has indiffernet results ,wonder if Bournemouth and Brentford fans are slashing their wrists this morning. We will be there in the shake up and will get automatic promotion this season ,it only needs a couple of decent results ,a few players to get their form back , a couple of injured players back and the team to gel and we will go on a run. A draw at Notts is not the end of the season ,most teams would take that.
A lot are saying Wilsons attacking and freescoring team from last season cant be used in his defence but then harp back to this 2nd season bollocks which is a myth anyway ,we neede tightening up this season and perhaps this has been done to much at the cost of our attacking options ,now we are conceding some soft goals due to individual errors it needs attending to ,its not like Long is pulling out strings of saves every game.
I personally would bring Howard back as soon as he is fit ,I think George is struggling to impose himself at the moment ,and the return of Collins and Hill will strengthen the defence ,leaving Doyle and Macdonald to get their fingers out and produce more going forward. We will be OK.

Let's see at the end of the season then. But you basically ignore Wilson's record and all of the facts I laid out. How people can have confidence that we will go up, when Wilson has failed in 10 attempts to get out of this divsion, is beyond me. Plus, we have been very very average this term. We are going nowhere. Unfortunately I will be coming back at the end of the season and saying 'I told you so'.

 

[sitwell]

and you choose to ignore his success at Barnsley which was huge ,and 4 defeats in 28 ,and choose to lable teams below us as impressive while we are limited , struggling and unmotivated. We get this everytime we lose a couple of games ,unfortunately that is the view of the average football supporter and foreign chairmen these days. Our only success has been under long term managers Harris ,Porterfield ,Bassett ,Warnock ,weve tried quick fixes 4 times in the last 5 years and wheres it got us ?

 

[BladeFisher]

and you choose to ignore his success at Barnsley which was huge ,and 4 defeats in 28 ,and choose to lable teams below us as impressive while we are limited , struggling and unmotivated. We get this everytime we lose a couple of games ,unfortunately that is the view of the average football supporter and foreign chairmen these days. Our only success has been under long term managers Harris ,Porterfield ,Bassett ,Warnock ,weve tried quick fixes 4 times in the last 5 years and wheres it got us ?

Out of that 4 Bassett had us promoted his first full season in charge as did Porterfield. At the rate we're going, we aint gonna get up this year. Unlike most Sitters, I look at the other teams results/performance in relation to ours and at the mo I'd say the three promoted clubs are likely to be Tranmere, Donny and Swindon, with Brentford outsiders. I think Swindon will make it into the top two. May even finish top. We are struggling pal. But hey after 48 years I've seen most of this rubbish before.

The gap between where we want to be and where we are is probably bigger than 35 years ago when we had aspirations to get out of this league. Well we did - downwards. You can see it happening again if DW don't turn it around.

 

[sitwell]

all 4 of those will have mid season blips ,I think Coventry and Doncaster are the main rivals for top 2.

 

[Fiery Blade]

all 4 of those will have mid season blips ,I think Coventry and Doncaster are the main rivals for top 2.

Sitters my friend, You are one hell of an optomist
My thought for today is 'Instead of Always look on the bright side of life da da da da da' - it should be Always ring Sitters he'll put you right - no problem - Life's a breeze!'
Oh and by the way 'Have you any of those Rose Tinted Shades for sale?'

 

[Ollessendro]

and you choose to ignore his success at Barnsley which was huge ,and 4 defeats in 28 ,and choose to lable teams below us as impressive while we are limited , struggling and unmotivated. We get this everytime we lose a couple of games ,unfortunately that is the view of the average football supporter and foreign chairmen these days. Our only success has been under long term managers Harris ,Porterfield ,Bassett ,Warnock ,weve tried quick fixes 4 times in the last 5 years and wheres it got us ?

Nope, if you read my earlier post I credit him with taking Barnsley up. That was a big achievement. However it was 15 years ago. He has had 15 seasons of football since then, pretty much all outside of the top flight, with only one other promotion. You can throw a few relegations and 3 failed play off attempts. Plus not getting any of his teams out of this division, despite almost a dozen tries. I am not ignoring the fact that we went on a long undefeated run. However many of the games this season were draws or unconvincing wins. The impressive teams that I stated are above us (Swindon and Brenford), MK Dons will be if they win their games in hand and Coventry and Bournemouth are the form teams. You can argue they are 5 points behind us (a valid point) but just look at their trajectories.

Oh and I never said owt about sacking him. That does not make sense. But I am interested, what is it in performances this season or in Wilson that gives you confidence?

 

[sitwell]

nutshell ,why are you so optimistic about all the other teams winning games in hand and always so pessimistic aboutUtd ? Ive seen us play the best football for years under Wilson ,It needed a change from percentage football ,only trouble with it is your main players need to be on form as Evans/macdonald last season. We have better players and manager than the rest ,it just needs a few of our main players to hit form.

 

[Ollessendro]

nutshell ,why are you so optimistic about all the other teams winning games in hand and always so pessimistic aboutUtd ? Ive seen us play the best football for years under Wilson ,It needed a change from percentage football ,only trouble with it is your main players need to be on form as Evans/macdonald last season. We have better players and manager than the rest ,it just needs a few of our main players to hit form.

Well even if the teams with games in hand do not win them, 4 are above us. Tranmere keep winning, Donny lool certs to go up, Swindon had a win record of 2 points per game in 2012 and have continued that in this division and Brentford have better projected points. Coventry and Bournemouth had poor starts to the season and then changed personnel (managers mainly) and since then have been on fire. This is what makes me thing they will win their games in hand and that they have a good chance of overtaking us.

I attach a doc with Wilson's record. Just have a look at it. This, and the performances this season, does not give me confidence. I actually agree that Wilson got us playing the best football in years. He also got Bristol playing well for a season, Swindon played very good stuff and fell short, Dingles one excellent season and then barely won a game, Pigs decent season and sacked the next, MK Dons turned them round and kept them up only to be relrgated next season, Hartlepool promotion and not much after.

I really hope that Wilson proves me wrong. I would love him to take us up. I like the way he came in and turned the football round. He was honest and straight talking. Plus he got us playing very good, attacking football. However I think that we've seen the best football under him at BDTBL and we will struggle going forward. Just my opinion, though there is a lot of evidence behind my case.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Good stuff that Bergs, but for me the biggest reason for our more conservative approach this season is simply that the players aren't as good as last seasons in the wide areas. DW has recognised this and set up accordingly. You could also construct an argument that the recent poor run has come about because we've tried to be more attacking than earlier in the season when we were winning games 1-0, but people were unhappy with how we were doing it.

True that they weren't as good (going forward) as last season's wide men, but the way we chose to line up we didn't try to be very good in the wide areas.

As we later tried to change we became inconsistent at a time when some other teams were finding rhythm.

Furthermore, we chose not to bother introducing the younger squad players in the first few months of the season, and we are paying the price now when we've had injuries, suspensions and loss of form to some players whose places in the team have been unthreatened for too long.

I do think a lot can be rectified though.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Five pages in and no-one has mentioned the syntactical error in the post title. tut tut

Unless the OP thinks we were falling behind but are now back on an upward trend....

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

I wish we could go back to winning and drawing every week.

We won eight and drew eight of the first 16 matches of the season and people were still fucking complaining!

 

[Hartley Hare]

Five pages in and no-one has mentioned the syntactical error in the post title. tut tut

 

[blade too long]

yes lets sack wilson now we are only in the top 6 . its a great time to be a moaner only drawing away and falling back to 5th apparently 30 points adrift now with no hope of regaining momentum as Collins will need 5 months to recover his form. and other teams above are now inbeatable and have all bought superstars