We used to be good at Loans. What happened to the golden era?

[Ron_Justice]

I'm sure some will argue the inclusion of Ampadu and Rak-Sakyi but the point remains. These players were central to our success in the recent years. What happened to us bringing in genuine high level loans? Another Selles Hangover?

 

[Shadota]

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I'm sure some will argue the inclusion of Ampadu and Rak-Sakyi but the point remains. These players were central to our success in the recent years. What happened to us bringing in genuine high level loans? Another Selles Hangover?

Considering the season in which we had Ampadu, suggesting that anybody during that season was a contributor towards "success" is absolutely wild.

That said, let me compare your names above to some of the other loans we've made in the last decade.

For every Dean Henderson, there's a Robin Olsen.
For MGW, there's a Ben Woodburn.
For Conor Coady, there's a Filip Uremovic.
For James McAtee, there's a Reda Khadra.
For Ethan Ampadu, there's a Ben Godfrey.
For Tommy Doyle, there's a Kalvin Phillips.
For JRS, there's a Marvin Johnson.
For Harry Souttar, there's a Charlie Goode.

 

[dexter101]

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I'm sure some will argue the inclusion of Ampadu and Rak-Sakyi but the point remains. These players were central to our success in the recent years. What happened to us bringing in genuine high level loans? Another Selles Hangover?

Bindon has actually been a good loan, and if the season had been better, I think we would have appreciated him more.

We have also previously had loans who weren't that positive (last year we had Clarke for example)

 

[Ron_Justice]

Considering the season in which we had Ampadu, suggesting that anybody during that season was a contributor towards "success" is absolutely wild.

That said, let me compare your names above to some of the other loans we've made in the last decade.

For every Dean Henderson, there's a Robin Olsen.
For MGW, there's a Ben Woodburn.
For Conor Coady, there's a Filip Uremovic.
For James McAtee, there's a Reda Khadra.
For Ethan Ampadu, there's a Ben Godfrey.
For Tommy Doyle, there's a Kalvin Phillips.
For JRS, there's a Marvin Johnson.
For Harry Souttar, there's a Charlie Goode.

Indeed, the trouble is, we've not any from the first column this year. (Bindon has grown to be decent, so credit where it's due).

 

[Shadota]

Indeed, the trouble is, we've not any from the first column this year. (Bindon has grown to be decent, so credit where it's due).

In difficult circumstances, I think Bindon has done extremely well this season. It was glaringly obvious from pre-season that he needed a strong, experienced leader alongside him, and the club failed to really deliver that (Mee would be the best option, but he's not been involved for a while). A player like Rob Holding for example, who has seen and done it at the top level, would have been great to guide him through games and help him develop in a competitive environment.

But despite that, he's really come along. You can see a very promising talent there. Had he come to us in a less chaotic season, I think he'd have thoroughly endeared himself to the fans.

 

[jt64]

Part of the trouble has been that loans, which really should be used to get rising talents that would otherwise be unavailable to you, have been used to fill gaps in the squad created by poor youth management and poor permanent recruitment. Curtis would be fine to fill out the bench but he's been loaned so using However/Hjelde instead. Souza was never replaced and Arblaster's likely been rushed back so we have Phillips. We have not invested in centre back outside of Anel for close to a decade, so when he went we needed Godfrey. That's just this season.

 

[Beans]

Did we use to be good at loans? We've certainly had some good players but I wouldn't include Ampadu in there and Rak-Sakyi wasn't trusted to even feature in the playoff final.

But even with JRS that's seven good loanees in thirteen years going back to Coady in 2013. If you want to be generous and draw the line more recently it's six in eight years going back to Henderson in 2018.

It's something we need to get much better at, that McAtee / Doyle season really was an outlier for us getting multiple starting calibre players on loan in the same year. Stop loaning backups pls

Edit: Brereton Diaz was a good loan when we were in the PL, but I think my overall point stands

 

[Racing Blade]

Without fail, the effectiveness of our loan choices has a direct effect on our finishing league position.

Broadly speaking, there are the following loan categories:

1) Those available because the loaning club wants to develop them through exposure to first team football. With the exception of Souttar, all of those in the above photos fall into this category.

2) Those needing to achieve fitness, with a view to returning to the loaning clubs first team. Souttar being the obvious example.

3) Those who are no longer required by the loaning club and the loan is somewhere between getting them off the wage bill and removing them from being a disruptive influence in the dressing room.

Without doubt, the OP has a valid point in that there's been a shift from 1 towards 3. Maybe some of that is down to budget limitations or maybe our stock has fallen in terms of being a trusted development placement for the better clubs to send young talent to.

 

[Selly]

Without doubt, the OP has a valid point in that there's been a shift from 1 towards 3. Maybe some of that is down to budget limitations or maybe our stock has fallen in terms of being a trusted development placement for the better clubs to send young talent to.

We should definitely be looking to (season) loan players who, on the basis of their development, their time with us would be their last in the Championship.

Doyle, McAtee, MGW and Henderson all fit into that description. Souttar might have if he hadn`t got injured.

Binden has come to us a year too early - I reckon (given his upturn in performances across the season) he'd be roughly that next year.

JRS, Phillips are not those players.

 

[Ron_Justice]

I think the issue, perhaps not entirely, but suspect it's a large part, is the change(s) of manager. Clearly, CW and his team had the ability to spot and pull in gems (yes there were some stinkers). Maybe Hecky was the secret sauce? His knowledge of the U21/23's would have made a difference. Invariably, chopping and changing Hecky, Wilder, Selles, Wilder, in the manner and timings that it happened, will effect recruitment and Loans will be part of that conversation.

The hope, clearly, is that given some stability, a club with aspirations for the top end of their division will have the structure in place to attract the better options.

 

[Ron_Justice]

Did we use to be good at loans? We've certainly had some good players but I wouldn't include Ampadu in there and Rak-Sakyi wasn't trusted to even feature in the playoff final.

But even with JRS that's seven good loanees in thirteen years going back to Coady in 2013. If you want to be generous and draw the line more recently it's six in eight years going back to Henderson in 2018.

It's something we need to get much better at, that McAtee / Doyle season really was an outlier for us getting multiple starting calibre players on loan in the same year. Stop loaning backups pls

Edit: Brereton Diaz was a good loan when we were in the PL, but I think my overall point stands

I suppose it's a relative comment - this year has been doggers, resurgent Bindon aside. While accepting that it's easy to clump all the success of several years into one happy memory, I think it's evident that there was a period around Henderson, MGW and the City lads that we were on a roll.

 

[Tarqs]

Considering the season in which we had Ampadu, suggesting that anybody during that season was a contributor towards "success" is absolutely wild.

That said, let me compare your names above to some of the other loans we've made in the last decade.

For every Dean Henderson, there's a Robin Olsen.
For MGW, there's a Ben Woodburn.
For Conor Coady, there's a Filip Uremovic.
For James McAtee, there's a Reda Khadra.
For Ethan Ampadu, there's a Ben Godfrey.
For Tommy Doyle, there's a Kalvin Phillips.
For JRS, there's a Marvin Johnson.
For Harry Souttar, there's a Charlie Goode.

Lets add Barry, Ogbene, Hjelde, Rob Holding, Alfie Gilchrist (he was ok at first, then was terrible), Luke Thomas, Mason Holgate, Yasser Larouici

 

[Shadota]

Lets add Barry, Ogbene, Hjelde, Rob Holding, Alfie Gilchrist (he was ok at first, then was terrible), Luke Thomas, Mason Holgate, Yasser Larouici

I had a far bigger list of names than the ones in my post. I only used a few of them to compare against the examples of good loanees. I wouldn't call Holding bad though - he showed himself to be our best CB when he featured. Wilder just played JLT ahead of him which is nonsensical

 

[KMC-1889]

As with most of our recruitment it's the lack of a clear plan that undoes us. What are we brining loans in for - strengthen the first team? Squad fillers? Develop youth potential?

it very much feels like we get a call about players that are available and see if we fancy them, rather than having a clear plan of the gaps we need to fill.

 

[Tarqs]

I had a far bigger list of names than the ones in my post. I only used a few of them to compare against the examples of good loanees. I wouldn't call Holding bad though - he showed himself to be our best CB when he featured. Wilder just played JLT ahead of him which is nonsensical

Agree, came under the same banner for me though, useless or pointless.

Up until the MGW loan, I thought our loans record was absoutely shambolic. It's probably been closer to 50/50 since, but we still have way more poor loans over good ones.

 

[billyblademan]

It's such an important tool for Championship clubs to use. We'll make 6-8 signings in the summer I imagine, and at least half of those will be loans. It's a chance to bring in the calibre of player you wouldn't ordinarily be able to - your difference makers. Not all of them will come off, but I'd echo Beans that loans shouldn't be for backup (on the whole).

 

[LBA_Blade]

Did we use to be good at loans? We've certainly had some good players but I wouldn't include Ampadu in there and Rak-Sakyi wasn't trusted to even feature in the playoff final.

But even with JRS that's seven good loanees in thirteen years going back to Coady in 2013. If you want to be generous and draw the line more recently it's six in eight years going back to Henderson in 2018.

It's something we need to get much better at, that McAtee / Doyle season really was an outlier for us getting multiple starting calibre players on loan in the same year. Stop loaning backups pls

Edit: Brereton Diaz was a good loan when we were in the PL, but I think my overall point stands

Back to 2007 Gary Cahill was a great loan addition for the 3 months that he was here, certainly added to the set piece threat too. Can never forget the beard a few years later, absolute iconic in desperate times.

 

[Nade]

I thought Uremovic was but just didn't play much?

I also thought Goode was...urh....good in his initial game. Obviously he got himself sent off in his second and was never seen again, but I think he'd been an OK loan if he'd play more

Stop the bias against loanees that don't get many games!

 

[joe casey]

Last year we had Souttar and Choudhury who were successes. Despite being underwhelming when you look at goals and assists per game- JRS and BBD did actually positively affect the team.

Holding was an odd one as he did well when he played but was barely seen. Gilchrist started well then fell off a cliff. The only car crash really was Harry Clarke and we were that good it didn't really matter.

I'd trust we'd sort the right loans out this time, ideally one or two who are starters.

 

[pollster]

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I'm sure some will argue the inclusion of Ampadu and Rak-Sakyi but the point remains. These players were central to our success in the recent years. What happened to us bringing in genuine high level loans? Another Selles Hangover?

Surely a rhetorical question?
The imbecile Wilder is back in full control now Saudie49er (who exerted control after wasting multi millions before having Wilder in control) has moved on.
They were generally shite (Ramsdale should have been in our goal not Henderson - and it would have been at a fraction of the price) under him before and some are successful on the case of the law of averages if the best clubs are targeted eg Chelsea and Liverpool)
The best transfers including permanent were largely superior under (Milo and) Hecky ( eg best recent years signings Anel Hamer and Souza and even Trusty may have been slow but he is at least COMPETENT unlike the clown captain Tanganga who is giving a goal away most games and getting booked stopping others).
The last two January windows have been disasters under Wilder.
The TARGETS were SEAL an expected promotion and SEAL an expected play off place (for 20 games were won most points along with Ipswich DESPITE Wilder and their manager who when I watch is similarly flawed)
BOTH TARGETS HAVE clearly FAILED CATASTROPHICALLY
Even the football brain dead owners know that. (Surely?)
With shite signings like Cannon and long term targets like Choudhury and other Prem ship loans like Clarke last year and Hoever this year added with endless ex Leeds players - who of course must be good in Wilders almost blind eyes.
Apart from Clown owners ALL the football problems are down to a megalomaniacal know knowt anti-football cretin,the parasite Wilder.
An example - FREE KICKS.
They have generally been over complicated (see Arsenal) and unthreatening throughout his return if not before.
We had a set piece specialist who left here (looking shite) who created endless free kick goals at Brentford the following season
AND HAS DONE BETTER AS MANAGER AT BRENTFORD THIS SEASON THAN WILDER HAS a POOR division below.
ps for the real thickos out there the reason why he appeared shite here WAS WILDER DICTATES EVERYTHING!

 

[DifferentClass]

BBD was good first spell, disappointing in his second, mostly because he were being played out of position.

If the ITK who teld me we're getting him back permanent is true I won't mind provided Wilder plays him in reyt position.

Dean Henderson is still my all-time favourite loanee.

 

[Ron_Justice]

Surely a rhetorical question?
The imbecile Wilder is back in full control now Saudie49er (who exerted control after wasting multi millions before having Wilder in control) has moved on.
They were generally shite (Ramsdale should have been in our goal not Henderson - and it would have been at a fraction of the price) under him before and some are successful on the case of the law of averages if the best clubs are targeted eg Chelsea and Liverpool)
The best transfers including permanent were largely superior under (Milo and) Hecky ( eg best recent years signings Anel Hamer and Souza and even Trusty may have been slow but he is at least COMPETENT unlike the clown captain Tanganga who is giving a goal away most games and getting booked stopping others).
The last two January windows have been disasters under Wilder.
The TARGETS were SEAL an expected promotion and SEAL an expected play off place (for 20 games were won most points along with Ipswich DESPITE Wilder and their manager who when I watch is similarly flawed)
BOTH TARGETS HAVE clearly FAILED CATASTROPHICALLY
Even the football brain dead owners know that. (Surely?)
With shite signings like Cannon and long term targets like Choudhury and other Prem ship loans like Clarke last year and Hoever this year added with endless ex Leeds players - who of course must be good in Wilders almost blind eyes.
Apart from Clown owners ALL the football problems are down to a megalomaniacal know knowt anti-football cretin,the parasite Wilder.
An example - FREE KICKS.
They have generally been over complicated (see Arsenal) and unthreatening throughout his return if not before.
We had a set piece specialist who left here (looking shite) who created endless free kick goals at Brentford the following season
AND HAS DONE BETTER AS MANAGER AT BRENTFORD THIS SEASON THAN WILDER HAS a POOR division below.
ps for the real thickos out there the reason why he appeared shite here WAS WILDER DICTATES EVERYTHING!

K'in ell....

 

[The Fox]

Is it that many PL players have become unloanable to championship sides based on wages alone . Whilst many have bloated squads , loans tend to happen within multi ownership models or to clubs abroad .

Basically alot are too young for championship football, and too expensive .

Even the Leicester players are too expensive and theyre heading to L1 .

I'd rather blood our own than have disinterested overpaid dross filling the bench .

 

[Inter_blade83]

Surely a rhetorical question?
The imbecile Wilder is back in full control now Saudie49er (who exerted control after wasting multi millions before having Wilder in control) has moved on.
They were generally shite (Ramsdale should have been in our goal not Henderson - and it would have been at a fraction of the price) under him before and some are successful on the case of the law of averages if the best clubs are targeted eg Chelsea and Liverpool)
The best transfers including permanent were largely superior under (Milo and) Hecky ( eg best recent years signings Anel Hamer and Souza and even Trusty may have been slow but he is at least COMPETENT unlike the clown captain Tanganga who is giving a goal away most games and getting booked stopping others).
The last two January windows have been disasters under Wilder.
The TARGETS were SEAL an expected promotion and SEAL an expected play off place (for 20 games were won most points along with Ipswich DESPITE Wilder and their manager who when I watch is similarly flawed)
BOTH TARGETS HAVE clearly FAILED CATASTROPHICALLY
Even the football brain dead owners know that. (Surely?)
With shite signings like Cannon and long term targets like Choudhury and other Prem ship loans like Clarke last year and Hoever this year added with endless ex Leeds players - who of course must be good in Wilders almost blind eyes.
Apart from Clown owners ALL the football problems are down to a megalomaniacal know knowt anti-football cretin,the parasite Wilder.
An example - FREE KICKS.
They have generally been over complicated (see Arsenal) and unthreatening throughout his return if not before.
We had a set piece specialist who left here (looking shite) who created endless free kick goals at Brentford the following season
AND HAS DONE BETTER AS MANAGER AT BRENTFORD THIS SEASON THAN WILDER HAS a POOR division below.
ps for the real thickos out there the reason why he appeared shite here WAS WILDER DICTATES EVERYTHING!

Zero knowledge. Stopped reading when you suggested Ramsdale instead of Henderson.

 

[jimmymuir]

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I'm sure some will argue the inclusion of Ampadu and Rak-Sakyi but the point remains. These players were central to our success in the recent years. What happened to us bringing in genuine high level loans? Another Selles Hangover?

What's Ampadu doing there?!

 

[LBA_Blade]

BBD was good first spell, disappointing in his second, mostly because he were being played out of position.

If the ITK who teld me we're getting him back permanent is true I won't mind provided Wilder plays him in reyt position.

Dean Henderson is still my all-time favourite loanee.

My favourite with Hendo was the shithousary dives he used to do when the ball appeared to be sailing wide and he would launch himself, there were a couple of times it was a bit closer than what he thought mind!

 

[Gin&Juice]

Hecky got some decent loans, even Khadra I thought was a good one!

 

[DeanLearner'sCat]

Kalvin Phillips did alright for 3 games and then kneecapped a guy (and himself). That's a win in my book.

 

[CPB]

I think this happens everywhere. Loans or not.

For good signings you get bad ones. No club, scouting team, manager gets every signing right. And that includes Brentfords and Brightons of this world too.

This last summer was a spectacular un success for us. And it isn't all down to Selles. The Bord AI experiment is arguably the bigger gamble as that influenced signings poorly.

But the last best one we had I'd say was Souttar before injury.

 

[CPB]

Hecky got some decent loans, even Khadra I thought was a good one!

Khadra barely did owt for us. And hasn't been seen much since.

Hecky managed to get Doyle and McAtee in though and they were very good in champ.