We are going nowhere....who's at fault?

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Hey DB, I'd never dispute the right of you or anyone to have their say, be it a moan, praise or point out to the manager where he's going wrong.
Its just not my style that's all, but if we were all like that, as you say, it would be boring.
I don't live in the past so the previous 2 or 3 seasons shenanigans are history and can't be changed. What interests me more is what this seasons outcome is, the next game is the most important one.
The best form of protest is don't bother giving them your money if things are that bad, that's when they sit up and take notice!

I think that may be coming sooner than we think if things don't improve. I think a lot bought season tickets or kept renewing based on the run last season and the hope we would actually show some ambition. It never happened. I cannot see the same happening next summer if things don't change. However to be fair I have said that most years and yet here we are; all still going and still getting ridiculously wonderful crowds for such dross. Maybe they think we are all happy with what we are being served up and thus don't change anything. 'They're all still coming Mr McCabe. We must be doing something right!' We all go as we are Blades and love our club. Does not mean we are happy.
 
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I think that may be coming sooner than we think if things don't improve. I think a lot bought season tickets or kept renewing based on the run last season and the hope we would actually show some ambition. It never happened. I cannot see the same happening next summer if things don't change.
Oh I think you are spot on there!
 
Please point me to the post where I said that you said anything, I was merely alluding to the posters who as soon as they read anyone criticising the team jump in with the usual rallying cry of "get behind the team and we will do better" bollocks. Maybe you should take a leaf out of your own book and read things properly, then again maybe you are one of these fans who take any criticism of Sheffield United as a personal insult there are a few like that on this forum.


Good try but only two of us used the word "counterproductive". It's not that important though.

Keep calm, it's early days. We gelled in December last season.
 
Plenty of frustration on display - including from people who did not go to yesterday's match but make various assumptions based on yesterday's performance.

I was there, sitting quietly in the East Stand, along with my wife and many other similarly well behaved Blades who went along simply to watch their team play football.

The game I saw had the Blades generally in control and coping comfortably with Chesterfield prior to Higdon being sent-off. A decent Chesterfield team never looked like getting behind the Blades defence prior to their goal, which was a well struck 25 yarder. Even at 1-0 down I was confident we would not lose the game. McCarthy, who had won every header and looked comfortable on the ball, then inexplicably passed the ball to Roberts who had a straight passage to goal and slotted in their second.

Cloughie's dismay at the ref's decision not send the Chezzie defender off when Murphy was through on goal was justified.

The 10 v 10 second half was disappointing. Morsy, who looks a very good player, ran the show in the middle of the park, aided by Wallace departing after 51 minutes and Doyle' worst game of the season. At 2-0 down we were forced to chase the game and always risked getting caught on the break, which is precisely what happened for Chezzie's third.

I'm as disappointed as the next supporter at being mid-table after 10 games. However, based on what I've seen so far, I see a top 6 finish at worst, with the squad we've currently got, and automatic promotion as a distinct possibility. Of course we'd rather be 8 points clear at the top, but Cloughie has been in the job for less than 12 months, during which he has transformed a basket case of a team looking nailed on for relegation into a good League One outfit. In doing so he has taken us to an FA Cup Semi-Final and won 54% of his matches (more than Bristol's Cotterill and Swindon's Cooper who have been in charge for a similar period and have won 45%).

He faced a massive challenge in maintaining momentum having lost Maguire, Brayford and Coady (the only one of these he realistically could and should have kept). Some of his pre-season signings have yet to prove their worth but it's too early to write any of them off (Higdon, incidentally, played well and looked sharper prior to his sending off yesterday).

The charge of mismanagement against the board since relegation from the Premier League is a no-brainer - we would clearly not be in Div 3 having spent tens of millions getting there if this were not the case. But it's surely unfair to lambast the current owners and execs, based on what we've experienced to date! I can't help but feel sympathy for Jim Phipps who has communicated more openly than any Blades Director in my lifetime and for his efforts gets written off as a "spin-doctor."

Money has been invested in the team by the new owners - according to Phipps, up to the limit of FFP rules last season and likely to be very close to the limit again this time round (that limit presumably being higher this season given transfer and cup income). So the only inference that can be drawn from those who say more should be spent, is the club should ignore FFP rules and/or Phipps is telling lies. Where there is evidence of Phipps, or anyone else on the club's payroll for that matter, lying to supporters, I will be on their case as strongly as anyone, but choosing to constantly assume the worst and then pillorying people based on those assumptions is not constructive and does not move us forward.

Having said all of the above, I am an unashamed optimist where the mighty Blades are concerned and this outlook has provided emotional sanctuary down the years.

UTB

I admire your optimism and all I can say is that I wish I could see the same positives that you allude to.
You say, "I see a top 6 finish at worst, with the squad we've currently got, and automatic promotion as a distinct possibility", however I would suggest that unless we bring in a strong pacey CM and a fast, strong striker who CAN score 20+ goals at this level, very quickly, we will continue to struggle to impose ourselves on this poor division. We have failed to boss any of the games we have played this season so far, with the exception of the Gillingham game and even then we couldn't convert more than 2 of 27 chances. That, I believe, evidences the fact that we have only had 1 decent striker at the Club in the last 10 years. ( and he's currently residing at her majesty's pleasure ). This is, without any doubt, a disgrace and is also, without a doubt, down to the lack of ambition of the Club ..... not, I hasten to add, the supporters.

On that evidence I would suggest that we are likely to finish the season in 6th - 10th place unless something significant changes, which there is no evidence to suggest that it will at this time. With the current squad of underachieving players, we have more chance of walking to the moon than getting promoted.

This Club is incredibly fortunate to have the most dedicated supporters in the country, who have put up with being misled, strung along and lied to by the Club's hierarchy for the last 40 years to my certain knowledge and this has still not been rectified with the current administration. If we are indeed spending to the maximum of our FFP allowance ( and I don't believe for one moment that we currently are ) then how on earth are the other clubs in this crappy division managing ??!! Given that our gates and therefore turnover are significantly higher than any of the other Clubs in the division, in theory we have the highest potential budget. I would doubt that Bristol C's wage bill is significantly different to ours, therefore somebody is being "economical" with the truth.

I believe, as usual, a manager of SUFC is being asked to deliver promotion on the cheap !! We made £2m on the Cup run and £2m + from selling our best defender and there has been no evidence of these funds being re-invested at this time. I'm a realist, have been supporting my beloved blades for 50 years and will continue to do so until I cease to draw breath.
UTB & FTP
 
Nail on the head. Bristol's starting eleven has barely changed since the start of the season (Agard for Baldock - look how they replaced star man unlike us with Maguire).
We did with Butler he's gone back to Walsall and he's a fucking hero again.
If you don't suck up to Clough yer out even to the demise of the team.
I'm not saying Butlers is Bobby Moore but he's sound in this league
 
Nobody is forgetting where we were this time last season, but just because things are better than that now, doesn't make our current plight any more positive. We are eleventh, have a poor squad, concede too many and don't offer enough attacking threat.

It is all well and good having cover in every position, but when the majority of your first choice players are average at this level, plenty of back up isn't much use.

I said as the season was beginning that I would rather we had signed fewer but better players to give us a really strong starting eleven. We didn't. We signed players that looked like back up (Alcock, Davies, Campbell-Ryce, McNulty, McCeverley etc.) unfortunately, these players have been starters. We do not have a good squad and we do not have a strong first eleven. People were sat there stating "just wait until the end of the window, we're saving the final pieces of the jigsaw until then". I think our jigsaw must have been from the charity shop, it is missing that many pieces.

We need better players. It really is that simple. Having a good starting line-up is more useful than a large, average squad at this level.

Im not comparing to this time last year ,what I am pointing out is ,we have had to totally rebuild ,the make up of the squad ,the attitude of the squad ,the quality of the squad ,the coaching staff ,the scouting staff ,the backroom altogether was total bollocks ,Julian fucking Winter for godsake !!. Clough has done this and it is a long term project ,which we all agreed at the time was needed ,now a close defeat to a team near the top of the league and we are all jumping of cliffs. the squad will be needed ,just wait until a few injuries and suspensions kick in for the others which they will. We are prepared for a long season and maybe Bristol Citys starting line up was more useful on Saturday ,they only got one point at Walsall ,hardly champions league stuff. Lets see where we are in March/ April and bring this thread back ,if Im wrong then fair enough but to start panicking and chucking the dummy out now is bonkers.
 
We get this ridiculous reaction every time we lose a game ,usually from the same old faces (who didn't make any posts last week). Can we all have a bit of patience with virtually a new team ,and stop acting like spoilt children everytime we lose a game.
your avatar suits you.
 
Im not comparing to this time last year ,what I am pointing out is ,we have had to totally rebuild ,the make up of the squad ,the attitude of the squad ,the quality of the squad ,the coaching staff ,the scouting staff ,the backroom altogether was total bollocks ,Julian fucking Winter for godsake !!. Clough has done this and it is a long term project ,which we all agreed at the time was needed ,now a close defeat to a team near the top of the league and we are all jumping of cliffs. the squad will be needed ,just wait until a few injuries and suspensions kick in for the others which they will. We are prepared for a long season and maybe Bristol Citys starting line up was more useful on Saturday ,they only got one point at Walsall ,hardly champions league stuff. Lets see where we are in March/ April and bring this thread back ,if Im wrong then fair enough but to start panicking and chucking the dummy out now is bonkers.
You are dead right to point out the need to stick to a plan, and ride the rough with the smooth. However, I certainly didn't consider we had an inevitable root and branch rebuilding of the club. This has surely been going on for 3 1/2 years now?

We are right to demand more than what we're getting. There's no sign of investment off the field though were constantly told otherwise, and I'm afraid the tactics on the field are just too negative.

The honeymoon is over and none of the current setup are above criticism. Unlike the board, Clough is still well in credit, but certainly eating into it.

As for the board, take away the spin and it feels just like any part of the last 4 decades. Underinvestment is still evident, despite so many positive headwinds.

UTB
 
Im not comparing to this time last year ,what I am pointing out is ,we have had to totally rebuild ,the make up of the squad ,the attitude of the squad ,the quality of the squad ,the coaching staff ,the scouting staff ,the backroom altogether was total bollocks ,Julian fucking Winter for godsake !!. Clough has done this and it is a long term project ,which we all agreed at the time was needed ,now a close defeat to a team near the top of the league and we are all jumping of cliffs. the squad will be needed ,just wait until a few injuries and suspensions kick in for the others which they will. We are prepared for a long season and maybe Bristol Citys starting line up was more useful on Saturday ,they only got one point at Walsall ,hardly champions league stuff. Lets see where we are in March/ April and bring this thread back ,if Im wrong then fair enough but to start panicking and chucking the dummy out now is bonkers.

The problem is this major rebuild is of our own doing. Had we just made two or three astute signings to replace (or bring back) Brayford and Coady and either kept or adequately replaced Maguire we could have carried on the momentum we built towards the end of last season. Instead we signed numerous average League 1 players and threw them into a first team that changes game by game. We still don't know our best first eleven because most of our players are average, starters, subs and squad players, with one or two exceptions.

I would rather we had a very good player in each position, and used the youth for back up, or brought in loans in the event of injuries or suspensions.

The overhaul was not necessary and it has cost us a good start. We need a good first team and we need a consistent, in terms of both performance and personnel, first team.
 
Go on then I will play ,either keep Brayford Maguire and Coady or replace them ,and name me your team against Chesterfield including subs. Then we have 4 injuries and a suspension ,name me your team for the following game.
 
I think the board have done everything clough as asked of them the blame lies with clough he's the one who selected the players that were brought in he's the one that selects the match day team if any of you are regular watches of the u21's it's clear to see there's some talent that should be used instead of the useless signings from this summer the likes of diego,Dimaio and reedy are ready and I believe there up for the challenge but I feel clough will keep using his signings hoping and praying they come good not good for youth development.



I think Clough asked for funds to buy Brayford and Coady. This would fit in with his "Smaller squad higher quality statement"
Clough likes to bring youngsters through but he can only do that if there is some stability in the first team. Why would any manager introduce young kids into this abortion of a team.
His plan was Brayford and Coady plus most of what was present last season and the bring Reed, Dimiao, Kennedy and DiGirolamo through in stages like he did with the youngsters at Derby. This was working towards the back end of last season and the young players looked like they'd been there all their lives when they got a game.

But it would be unfair to put them in now, they aren't to blame and don't deserve the wrath of a frustrated crowd.
 
Sure the performances haven't been quite there (Gillingham apart) so I feel we do have to work on our consistency but I'm sure the players we have are potentially good enough, save for another attacking addition. Surely there's more to come.
 
I did not go to Chesterfield today and I am going to be a bit hypocritical to offer my thoughts considering my non attendance. I did not go to Rotherham either last year. A few years ago not going down the road (I could be at Proact in 15 minutes) was unheard of but this is how this club has got me. I did not even know the tickets were on sale and then by the time I thought about going they had gone (due to incredible loyalty and still passion despite so many let downs). I did not feel sad not to be going today. I sadly expected a loss to a hungry, young and well drilled side. It went as I expected it.

The season is now 10 games in. We have lost 4 of them and are chucking goals away most away games and showing little chance of ever going on a run. We do ok (at best) one week and then the next week its another step backwards. On what we have seen so far we will do well to get in the top 6 and look all the world a plodding mid table side.

We have a leaky defence, a midfield that does not create and don’t score goals with the worst collection of options up front in my United lifetime. We have enough experience and depth and some talent that occasionally sparkles but are really inconsistent (Murphy, Campbell Ryce, Baxter and Scougall). We change the side every week and we look no nearer to spending any significant funds to properly improve this team of journeyman and misfits.
So who is to blame? Well the reality is that everyone has to take a chunk apart from us lot.

The board

I have to say that the boards strategy and lack of ambition as always costs us any chance to move forward. We have not spent significantly in transfer fees or wages to be anywhere near good enough to be in the top two. We lost key players and after a good cup run and funds generated (Maguire) spent peanuts in comparison. As always there is excuse after excuse added to spin from our American friend as chairman. I don't buy it and neither do most fans.

My honest opinion is whether the Prince (and his associates) have money or not; they ain't spending it on this football club. If they were serious after us moving up the leagues and it being 'game changing' they would have spent the small sums in comparison to their fortune needed to get us out of the third tier. I don't think they are that bothered. I think it is a bit of a toy; a bit like his fantasy football league he always speaks of. Sadly I think in the next year or so he and the others will quietly disappear. Will it matter? On current evident it won't as there introduction as changed little with the only real significance that McCabe has allegedly wrote off his debts.

We have had lots of time to improve the squad and in reality they have not given Clough that much help to make us that dominant side that is not guaranteed promotion but one that has a very good chance. He had had to sign players that for the most part will still be on decent wages at this level and more than Chessy, Rochdale etc but not the sort of players who will get us out of this division. However......

The Manager

I would also argue other sides have managed to recruit players either loan or from the lower leagues (Peterborough, MK Dons, Bristol) spending not much more (Agard apart). The players Peterborough brought in Maddison from Gateshead and James from Hartlepool were not 'name' signings. Similarly could we have not got Freeman, Litte, Ayling, Wilbraham and some of others Bristol signed. Akobe for MK Dons? All have had big impacts.

Clough has to be honest and say the signings he did bring in overall have been really poor. Alcock has been steady until recent games and Campbell Ryce shown flashes but injury prone. McEveley started well but has gone off the boil. The Butler signing and outgoing was a fiasco. Higdon has been awful as has the abysmal Basham. McNulty looks a little out of his depth. He resigned Porter and also Davies (neither are considered starters). I feel sorry for some of lads such as Reed, Dimaio, Di Girolamo, Khan etc. Could they have done any worse?

The pre season saw the team messed around and this has continued. We have not started the same team for two successive games. We do not have any of the defensive solidity from last season and look disorganised. We also do not have the attacking fluency we had last season. Tactically and coaching wise he has been out performed many games this season. We are shipping goals all over and have been fortunate to have even got many of the results we have. The last 3 games we have let in 11 goals and other than a few late comebacks it could have ben even more embarrassing.

In short as good as Clough was last season and what a job he did; although taking over from the woeful Weir he had a free pass in some ways and could not do any worse (but still did a tremendous job to get us to the semi and cusp of the playoffs when we were staring down the barrel); he has been really poor this season. If he had not done what he had last year then many fans would be calling for a change. People may laugh at that but that is the truth. Wilson went when we were 4th. The football this season has been really poor. The performances average at best and the results a mixed bag but wholly unacceptable for a club of Uniteds standing to be scratching around in mid table for the 4th year if the third tier.

Clough has shown this season why he was in non league for 10 years and why at Derby they never realy moved forward. He has done very little in his managerial career but showed so much promise last season. I thought at last a no nonsense manager who got us playing with some style and brought some pride back. This season we have gone completely backwards. It is better than Weir but no better than the average dross Wilson served up in his second season. We look miles off a decent side and the buck has to stop with Clough for that whatever limitations he may have had. I am sure the likes of many other managers above us in the league (Alexander at Fleetwood, Hill at Rochdale, Cook at Chesterfield) would love to have his limitations. The honeymoon is over for me now and I know some may feel by criticising him that it is taking away from the board and the deserved criticism I have given above. However, he has to much better in preparing the sides (2 or 3 down every away game at the moment is pathetic) and get them sharper, tighter, better drilled and more ruthless. We look a soft touch all over the field. I can accept the lack of goals, creativity but being out worked and out thought has been a constant much of the season.

The players

Too many seem to have not got going. Murphy and Flynn have mostly reverted to type. Scougall does not look the same player and Collins and Doyle although sometimes harshly seen as in line with our recent demise are still what they are. Average. They at least wont be at the club this time next year. We have a mixed bag of journeymen players. However even these should be doing better. Some of these wont have ever played for a club like us and wont again. They should be proud to wear the red and white stripes and run through brick walls.

Many are on a good wage at this level but many seem like either they cant be arsed or kind of happy to accept mediocrity. Murphy and Flynn are casing points. Two players who have enough ability to be stand outs at this level but at the moment they are looking no better than anyone else and will be stuck playing football here or lower for United or someone else unless they realise and start waking up. Many have come here and should be desperate to show almost 20,000 what they are about but have been shocking (Basham, Higdon etc). If they don’t improve they will end up at some crap hole soon on less wages and
I wonder if they regret not making the most of a golden chance to play in front of big crowds, have great training facilities and have fans wanting and hoping for them to be heroes.

Verdict

Some fans say we should have to accept where we are and realise we are League One. I am sorry but that is not acceptable to have that attitude. I know we can’t do much but does not mean we should accept such mediocrity. I hear some say United are some of worst fans that they are up one week, and down the next. I do not agree with this.

Yes all clubs have fans like this but do you know what for the dross and the position and where we are in the football pyramid, the fans support has been incredible for me. In many ways we are the most patient bunch in the land. We are comfortably the biggest underachievers for a club of our size/support in the league and yet we keep turning up most weeks. We are about the only good thing this club has (don’t give me the Academy as anyone any good is sold anyway).

The rest of this club is a bit of a mess that is plodding along with no sense of urgency and drive. James Phipps comments on twitter to me are quite patronising (unbroken etc). We deserve better. Will we get it. Probably no time soon. Up the Blades.
 
All of this is academic.

We are struggling and punching way below our weight as a club, despite what Chesterfield (and others) say about us ref: 'we should be leagues above where we are'. We should be and I don't think I am alone in demanding this from a club like ours, with a ground like ours with supporters like ours with a Manager like Clough. Meekly accepting this is our lot is a disgrace and makes Sheffield United a laughing stock for all to see. The demise hasn't exactly come without warning since we failed effectively to invest in the team when we were promoted to the PL and the lack of investment since in both managerial and playing staff has been farcical.

But anyway, we are still short of a few details before us 'critics' can be assuaged and we all join the 'it'll all come good, just wait and see' brigade.

One detail is this 'Clough signed 'x' number of players' statement which no one has yet come up with a definitive figure which highlights exactly how much all of these signings cost. With that in our hands, maybe we will be able to gauge how much the board is investing in the club to guarantee Clough some measure of success this season. We saw how much of a difference the engagement of two or three key players made last season so anyone with any brains would imagine the summer transfer period would see some players of pedigree arrive in the car park instead of 'undiscloseds' and 'freebies' and of course, 'quality-signing' Higderson.

Secondly I would really, REALLY like to know what the fuck McCabe now understands by 'game changing investment', and 'not until we reach the championship.' I'd like to have a public statement from him on these because with ten games gone and United looking much like a Weir team again, I feel he owes the major investors in the team - the fans - a bit of an update. Is it worth turning out every Saturday to watch Clough juggle his chainsaws trying to keep United in touch with the playoffs? I mean, when Clough was appointed I thought, 'this bloke will get us out of this division' and I expected the new Saudi appointee to see his appointment as a marker to plough money into the playing staff. So who was telling us the lies then? Did Prince bloke lie to McCabe when he shook hands? Did McCabe over-egg his predictions and lie to us? Either way, he either owes us an explanation or some investment. He surely can't expect United fans to endure another shit season scrapping it out with what are, effectively, footballing tadpoles?

Lastly, I want all optimists to look at Sheffield United over the past forty years and reflect on - yes - the ace moments we have had ... but measure that against the mountainous monolith of disappointment and let downs, largely carved out by incompetence and under-investment, whilst other clubs have somehow turned setbacks around and sought success out of failure. Want me to name some? Fucking hell, the list is long and distinguished and includes some teams gracing the top league in England. It is a position that this board (when the Prince arrived) made some kind of half-arsed proclamation they were going to get us back to 'at the earliest opportunity' or summat. Now for me, that means 'right now'. Languishing tenth in the third division with a rather inept playing staff doesn't convince me we were being told the truth at all.

And for the record, anyone who thinks Higdon's ridiculous lunge at the dramatic Chesterfield player wasn't a straight red needs their eyes tested. What the flying fuck he was doing I fail to understand. Still, it matters not, eh? We have plenty of dynamic, 'thump-em-in' front men to chose to take his place whilst he sits and puts more timber on. Like Porter.


pommpey
 



I've spent the weekend feeling pretty pee'd off. This is more of a moan than anything else (I don't have a magic wand) and I should know better - we've been here before and no doubt will be again, As I get older I seem to feel these defeats to teams our reserves would have beaten in days of yore even more and it is difficult to find many positives in some of our recent performances in the league to date. Certainly we seem to be lacking some confidence and positivity, both in terms of individual players and tactically. At times Its like we are scared to take a chance or are beating ourselves through lack of belief or is it only me that thinks that. Its only when we are chasing the game that we seem to step up a gear. It would be nice to see us take a game by the scruff of its neck from the off and rip some team a new one.

We have brought in a couple of strikers this season - one of which, according to reports, now won't be fit until xmas(sigh), the other is "one for the future" so at the moment there is only really a slight improvement in the attack - although I think Chris Porter must find himself wondering why he is so low in the pecking order on some of the current performances. I do like the look of McNulty, but he wasn't bought as a mainstay for this season's attack.

Once again our GD is negative. Defensively we lost our most able central defender and haven't really managed to replace him fully - for a variety of reasons. We also lost a couple of very good loan players. Consequently, despite us having greater squad strength in depth (which is good), we have a weaker first team IMO and a defence which is shipping goals (which is piling on more pressure for a high scoring forward). Baxter aside I see no-one remotely close to being that and Baxter is more attacking midfielder than forward. We seem to have been reduced to hoping that a bloke who hasn't played a match for 30 or so months can miraculously rediscover a goal touch that took him 2 years to find in the first place. He may not be back at all for one reason or another. In any case it is a completely different team he would be joining.

I think the defence can be more effective and better organised than they currently are but the constant changes of personnel (some of which are not enforced) don't help collective understanding and confidence grow. Frailty in defence will do nothing to strengthen attacking momentum as players are more likely to hang back to cover due to lack of confidence in our defence. Last season our GD was poor. I reckon we need to score at least 10-15 more times than last this season to simply stand still in GD terms.I am at a loss to see where the goals will come from at the moment so answers on a postcard please - just saying ched isn't really an answer I don't think.

The new co-owner has, for one reason or another had to put the Sheffield United project on a lower heat as his political career advances. Our performance in the transfer market has been shambolic and ineffectual for the most part leaving me hoping that the current crop of players can somehow find some form and consistency. Its all pretty depressing and the best anyone seems able to come up with is the Sheffield United equivalent of "jam tomorrow" - lets see where we are at the end of the season - it might work out. I do not get any real sense of confidence or belief in the side as they are currently performing from the vast majority of posts I have read and even the aspirational/optimistic ones seem decidedly lacklustre to the point where I am not sure who they are trying to convince.

Its Sunday. I hate Sundays after we have lost. I hope I get up tomorrow in a better mood. So does the dog. Sorry to rant but I needed to get it out of my system.
 
Thing about football is that there are four leagues and only maybe fourteeen teams out of 90' odd win anything. That's not many. No team has any divine right.
 
Go on then I will play ,either keep Brayford Maguire and Coady or replace them ,and name me your team against Chesterfield including subs. Then we have 4 injuries and a suspension ,name me your team for the following game.

Erm, probably something like:

GK: Howard
RB: Brayford / Replacement
LB: Harris
CB: Collins
CB: Maguire / Replacement
DM: Doyle
RM: Flynn
LM: Murphy
CAM: Coady / Replacement
CAM: Scougall
CF: Emergency loanee brought in to replace Baxter during his injury, or Di Girolamo (depending how good and fit he actually is) or, dare I say it, Porter, who wasn't actually bad with Flynn, Coady, Scougall and Murphy overlapping.

Pretty much as close to last season as we could have kept it.

I was making the point that we didn't need to change things as much as we did.

As for it taking a full pre-season and ten league games for our side to gel, which it still hasn't, this is just silly. Teams nowadays have a large turnover of players every season. You can't actually believe that it takes almost a quarter of the season every year for things to click.
 
and you think with an unhappy Maguire that squad would be stronger than what we have ? Ok then who would come in for Murphy and Scougall earlier in the season and where are your subs ? Morgan , Garner and Crosby I presume ? A table doesn't start to take shape until November/December when the true size of a squad comes into play.
 
and you think with an unhappy Maguire that squad would be stronger than what we have ? Ok then who would come in for Murphy and Scougall earlier in the season and where are your subs ? Morgan , Garner and Crosby I presume ? A table doesn't start to take shape until November/December when the true size of a squad comes into play.

This hypothetical world is becoming a touch too in depth. :) Do we still have Taylor, Brandy, Hill and Miller? Am I allowed to have replaced these if they left?

Anyway, I'll answer your question, but then we really must stop playing Imaginary Football Manager. Reed would come in for Scougall and either Brandy, Khan or Campbell Ryce for Murphy, depending upon the scenario.

Going back to my original point, I believe that it is better to have a strong first eleven, than a larger, average squad. It is easier to absorb one or two youngsters / fringe players into a very good first team and them hit the ground running than it is to try to mount a promotion push with an average team with average back up. You clearly don't agree, which is fair enough.

I don't want people to think I am being pessimistic for the sake of it and that I think all our summer dealings were shit, just because. I actually think we are stronger up front now than we were last season. McNulty looks a lot better player than Taylor and Higdon will get more goals than everbody's Blue Eyed Boy Miller, who has scored a grand total of nob all for Coventry, I do believe.

We are two or three good players short of being a good side, unfortunately it is the same three that we required in the summer. If we address this with some real quality, I will be pleased, as I am sure most would.
 
Nobody is forgetting where we were this time last season, but just because things are better than that now, doesn't make our current plight any more positive. We are eleventh, have a poor squad, concede too many and don't offer enough attacking threat.


That doesn't makes sense. At this time last season we had 5 points and were heading for the fourth division. This season we have 16 points and are 11th in the third division. I don't think any person on earth can argue with even the remotest shred of credibility that our current position (or 'plight' as you put it) is not more positive than it was then.
 
That doesn't makes sense. At this time last season we had 5 points and were heading for the fourth division. This season we have 16 points and are 11th in the third division. I don't think any person on earth can argue with even the remotest shred of credibility that our current position (or 'plight' as you put it) is not more positive than it was then.

It makes perfect sense. Clearly I am stating that just because we are doing better than last season, that does not mean we are doing well or that our current position should be viewed as positive.

I did not mean more positive than last season, I meant more positive generally.
 
Sure the performances haven't been quite there (Gillingham apart) so I feel we do have to work on our consistency but I'm sure the players we have are potentially good enough, save for another attacking addition. Surely there's more to come.

:SMUG C*NT ALERT:

:cool:


...Only joking I had to be right at some point though eh! I do feel like we have enough but felt at the time we hadn't quite got the balance right. Getting there now.
 
I ventured through this thread, from the OP, with it's 'the future as is the past' emphasis, to many of the posters who seem to respond like a dog to a dog whistle.

Earlier I wrote on another thread that I would prefer to wait another 5-7 games before feeling more confident about how the remainder of the season might pan out. What's currently happening is that we're at last beginning to see the shoots of something resembling a decent formation, some tweaking here and there still to happen, but generally we're doing well. But it's far too early for predictions, and that includes those who forecast stagnation. The attitude of the players is good and reflects a desire to compete. We're also beginning to impose ourselves. The downside of this is that we do lack that killer, final touch to finish off a move more consistently. McNulty does suggest he could be an answer to that question, but someone either alongside him, or as competition for that position, would be healthy. I like Marc, a bright player, intelligent, and good instincts around the opposing goal. A steal, given what we paid for him. He strikes me as this season's Coady. Slow to respond, but with a little faith shown by the management, he's beginning to show why Clough bought him.

It's funny how reactive some poster's are to wins or losses. We're a long way from a really good side, but we are building steadily. We've got some really good talent, a few players that can excel if they can hit form (Murphy being the current example), and with Basham's reinvention of himself, and McCarthy beginning to impose himself at the back, we're beginning to build a head of steam.

Now all it'll take is one loss, or a draw that, in the eyes of a few posters, we should have won, and United will have returned to the dark ages once again.

Here's hoping, feet on the ground as always, but good signs from the red and white.
 
I thought 2 of our best players yesterday were Murphy and Basham ,2 players I didn't think would be good enough and are proving me wrong. Maybe the point of me putting this thread back up is we shouldn't all be so reactionary to one bad result and have a bit of patience and remember it is a 46 game season. Also to rub those smug wankers from Chesterfields nose in it a bit.
 
Having played two teams in the relegation zone, one just above it and one in mid table you would expect results to improve dramatically, clean sheets are good but we have hardly been tested since losing at Chesterfield. Also it is only last week that we have finally managed to win a game by two clear goals we are making chances but missing most of them we still need a striker on the field not on the bench. I know you can only beat what is put in front of you but I'll wait until we come up against and beat some better opposition before shouting that we have turned the corner.
 
Thank God the board had a little more faith and more importantly, patience, than many posters on here.

I understand that this is a massive year for us as we are pushing hard for promotion, but I would remind everyone, it is a marathon, not a sprint. Indeed, Bristol City and Peterborough are now the teams that everyone in the league will be up for!

So many changes, some enforced, some not, so many new players, it was bound to take time. In addition, I believe that the niggles Wallace has had and the poor form of some of our key players (hangover from last year's efforts, I believe) hindered the earlier formation of the first eleven.

Certainly, we are not the finished article, but certainly the defense that is beginning to take shape will give the team and NC confidence to go forward a little more. Surely, NC is already planning to keep the Centre back pairing in place. Perhaps in Basham and Paddy, we have found the perfect replacements for HM and Collins?
 
Maybe people should read this thread again too. Only 3 weeks ago o_O

I still stand by what I said before; we still need a strong pacey CM, a fast strong striker capable of 20+ goals a season and a commanding CH with some pace. Without these I still think we will struggle for top 6 at the end of the season and top 2 is pie in the sky without them.

We still cannot finish games off .......
UTB & FTP
 



Fair do's. Since the Chesterfield result; Clough has got some consistent results and better performances.

I dont think the post I made or reactions was on one result. We had lost heavily away at Swindon and looked a shadow of the side from last season.

Still do not think we look a top two side but credit where it is due; we have put some decent results together. Ultimately I will wait till we play some of the better teams (we have played 3 sides I believe will be in the bottom half and 2 that will go down I feel) before I get too carried away. Big two local derbies coming up. Take 4 points from those will set us up nicely as we move into December. I still feel we need a couple more players and some consistency (although getting there) to get in the top two.

Interesting to note improvements since Collins has been taken out. Perception is he a solid centre back but my opinion is he was done a season or so ago and Maguire carried him for quite a while. He defends too deep and means we invite pressure. The back line has played higher up in the last few games and compressed the play.
 

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