Warnock

[JohnDenver]

All you people harking back to promotions, getting excited, winning football matches, frightening opponents......

You aren't giving nearly enough credence to the "new ethos" that was necessary. The next time Shrewsbury stick the fourth goal in in front of the kop, remember that if we concentrate in the "ethos" we will eventually turn into Swansea.

UTB

You're obsessed with ethos man! Adkins has the best CV regardless of his e-word. Move on!

 

[SouthportBlade]

My thoughts...

Sure he was a man who divided opinion, both across football and within the club.

I am not going to sit here and say he was a saint and a football genius, nor am I going to say he was an abject failure and a terrible manager.

He had a good stint at the Lane, and oversaw some of the best nights/games as a blade. He gave us some fantastic cup runs and delivered a promotion to the promised land. He also failed to keep us there! However it isn't like we failed miserably, we went down on the last day of the season and luck massively conspired against us.

Overall you've got to say he is one of the good ones. Consider the dross we have had since? Sure he had his failings, and at times the football was absolute garbage - but rarely did it seem dull. Maybe this is a bit rose tinted, but I always backed us to find a last minute winner and you knew the bunch of players would give everything for the cause. Sadly something we cannot say at present.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

By the way I agree about the comments regards the Blades culture / DNA.

If we tried to develope a team playing the Barcelona way I'm sure many fans would be booing and shouting "boot it up field" or "stick it in the box".

I wonder if our culture is fast attacking direct almost kick and rush type football. Is that what most fans want?

most fans
or
shoutiest fans

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

All you people harking back to promotions, getting excited, winning football matches, frightening opponents......

You aren't giving nearly enough credence to the "new ethos" that was necessary. The next time Shrewsbury stick the fourth goal in in front of the kop, remember that if we concentrate in the "ethos" we will eventually turn into Swansea.

UTB

Hoof is an ethos too.

We've all got them. (Ethoses not hooves)

UTMB

 

[Sean Thornton]

Press reports at the time like this one:-

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/exclusive-warnock-given-48-hours-566131

So just to be clear Warnock is being criticised because he didn't leave to take up a job he wasn't offered..

That's before the job was offered to Redknapp. Ones after state what I said, quoting Mandaric. It's a fact he wasn't offered the job.

I didn't criticise him, simply said he wasn't offered the job.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

That's before the job was offered to Redknapp. Ones after state what I said, quoting Mandaric. It's a fact he wasn't offered the job.

I didn't criticise him, simply said he wasn't offered the job.

I suspect what happened would have been that he was offered the job "in principle", probably with an initial draft of a contract, and while he was considering it Redknapp's availability became apparent and the offer was swiftly withdrawn. If Redknapp had been available early on I doubt Portsmouth would have approached to speak to NW. Warnock was therefore able to say he had "the contract offer to prove it", and Mandaric can say he was never actually offered the actual contract.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

That's before the job was offered to Redknapp. Ones after state what I said, quoting Mandaric. It's a fact he wasn't offered the job.

I didn't criticise him, simply said he wasn't offered the job.

Maybe or maybe Warnock told Mandaric he wouldn't be taking the job, so it got offered to Redknapp.
Warnock has publically stated that he was offered the job and I haven't seen Mandaric say otherwise (feel free to provide a source).
Either way, Mandaric would hardly want to admit to the world that Redknapp was his second choice would he?
The only people who know for sure are Warnock and Mandaric and you're neither of them so you can't really state whose account is a fact
You certainly can't state as fact that he would definitely have taken the job if he was offered it. That's just a complete guess.

 

[judge]

I suspect what happened would have been that he was offered the job "in principle", probably with an initial draft of a contract, and while he was considering it Redknapp's availability became apparent and the offer was swiftly withdrawn. If Redknapp had been available early on I doubt Portsmouth would have approached to speak to NW. Warnock was therefore able to say he had "the contract offer to prove it", and Mandaric can say he was never actually offered the actual contract.

The thing with redknapp and mandaric and that job was ramping
Millions of pounds were bet on redknapp by persons unkown warnock was used to ramp up the odds on redknapp
Redknapp was given the job he was always going to get and some lucky punters with some inside info ( daisy the bulldog perhaps ) coined it in

 

[alcoblade]

You're obsessed with ethos man! Adkins has the best CV regardless of his e-word. Move on!

I've flushed one of them out at least!

Next - Where's Pinchy?

UTB

PS - I'm still happy with Adkins, if not the situation right now.

 

[alcoblade]

Hoof is an ethos too.

We've all got them. (Ethoses not hooves)

UTMB

I don't actually recognise any of this ethos stuff.

It's about winning football matches, over and over. The rest is s fluff. Others might call it ethos.

And yes......"Fleetwood", before you start.

UTB

 

[BushBlade]

I don't actually recognise any of this ethos stuff.

It's about winning football matches, over and over. The rest is s fluff. Others might call it ethos.

And yes......"Fleetwood", before you start.

UTB

There's nothing new about having an 'ethos' or a 'philosophy'. It's just new words for the same thing, just as a manager's job is now a 'project'.

All it is, is the basic principles of how the club plays, a basic plan of how we're going to get out of the league.

The Bassett/Warnock 'Blades Way' was an ethos, it's just that neither of them were poncey enough to use such a term.

 

[alcoblade]

There's nothing new about having an 'ethos' or a 'philosophy'. It's just new words for the same thing, just as a manager's job is now a 'project'.

All it is, is the basic principles of how the club plays, a basic plan of how we're going to get out of the league.

The Bassett/Warnock 'Blades Way' was an ethos, it's just that neither of them were poncey enough to use such a term.

Agreed. However, when people start putting priorities in things thT for no empirical evidence of any link to success, they create a cloud of guff (ethos) that they use to override sensible factual debate.

You will find words like "community", "gerritforrad" and "culture" in such debates.

UTB

 

[BushBlade]

Agreed. However, when people start putting priorities in things thT for no empirical evidence of any link to success, they create a cloud of guff (ethos) that they use to override sensible factual debate.

You will find words like "community", "gerritforrad" and "culture" in such debates.

UTB

Eh?

Sorry, struggling to understand what you mean.

 

[GreasyChipBeattie]

QPR interim manager Neil Warnock: "It's been a difficult 24 hours as I didn't expect it to be my last game.

"I'm off to Cornwall tomorrow and then we'll see what's around the corner in the next few weeks."

/QUOTE]

Same as what's there now I suppose..........Devon!!

 

[alcoblade]

Eh?

Sorry, struggling to understand what you mean.

I typed it out then got distracted before I could edit.

Ethos is the word (amongst other such guff) used by those to justify things that have no evidence of a link to success. It has crept in to debates where people struggle to to justify the academy, so they throw in things like "community".

It was, apparently, what was missing when Warnock focussed on winning above all these other things. And suprisingly, we won't a lot.



UTB

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

1. I have it on good authority that Neil will not be managing anyone anytime soon or probably ever again so I think we can put that one to bed. I Can only


2. I like the job Neil did for us (though he certainly had his flaws). But the biggest ingredient in his success was that he was given time to build as well as a bit (not loads) of financial backing. He took 2 years to build the triple assault team then lost Brown to Spurs and the likes of Page, Murphy, McCall, Nuddy, Pesch, Chief etc. to old age. Then he spend another 2 years building the promotion winning team. Since then, I think only Blackwell has had 2 full years in charge and at a time where we were dramatically slashing the wage bill selling the likes of Beattie, Naughton, Walker etc. We seem to now be on a stable financial footing so I would love to see us give a decent proven manager (Adkins) time (2 years) to build a proper team capable of achieving something. We’re never going to have another Bassett or Warnock if we sack them every time they don’t get promoted in the first season.

They are both (Adkins and Warnock) yesterday's men but one thing I do know Warnock would get us out of the third.

 

[BushBlade]

I typed it out then got distracted before I could edit.

Ethos is the word (amongst other such guff) used by those to justify things that have no evidence of a link to success. It has crept in to debates where people struggle to to justify the academy, so they throw in things like "community".

It was, apparently, what was missing when Warnock focussed on winning above all these other things. And suprisingly, we won't a lot.



UTB

Got you now.

No, it wasn't 'people' who referred to 'community' in respect of the academy, it was me, specifically.

And what I meant is this - the academy provides opportunities in coaching for people in Sheffield, opportunities for kids from Sheffield to be coached at a good standard and play the game to the best of their abilities; for the odd one the chance of a career in football. It increases the engagement of the club with the people who live in the area, it provides jobs, it gives another reason (apart from the obvious one that you can go and watch us play live, not just on TV) for local people to support the club. I value that. They are not fluffy intangibles. It's not just about success. Success is important and has to be our priority but if it was about nothing but success I'd follow Man U from the comfort of my armchair.

I'm sure there could be a business case for leaving the Lane and building a stadium near the M1 but how many people would agree with it? Accountants are in charge of too much already.

 

[alcoblade]

Got you now.

No, it wasn't 'people' who referred to 'community' in respect of the academy, it was me, specifically.

I know that, that's why I was pulling your leg.

Once again though, I view the rest of it as fluffy guff.

As I've said before, you can measure it by the support we'd receive if we did all these things, but never won another thing. In other words, it has next to zero value at all.

UTB

 

[BushBlade]

They are both (Adkins and Warnock) yesterday's men but one thing I do know Warnock would get us out of the third.

Yesterday's men? What does that mean? Fergie was still pretty good when he retired. The best manager Newcastle have had in recent years apart from Keegan was Bobby Robson and top of the PL is Claudio Ranieri.

Neither Adkins nor Warnock show any signs of mental deterioration, both have managed in the PL within the last three years. Adkins isn't even old.

 

[BushBlade]

I know that, that's why I was pulling your leg.

Once again though, I view the rest of it as fluffy guff.

As I've said before, you can measure it by the support we'd receive if we did all these things, but never won another thing. In other words, it has next to zero value at all.

UTB

We haven't won owt for 90 years and probably won't again. Ever. But something makes us turn up time and again. It's certainly not logic so it must be something emotive.

What you can't measure doesn't exist?

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

I don't actually recognise any of this ethos stuff.

It's about winning football matches, over and over. The rest is s fluff. Others might call it ethos.

And yes......"Fleetwood", before you start.

UTB

You've got an ethos - like it or not.

If you prefer you can call it a code.

Did you call me fluffy?

 

[alcoblade]

We haven't won owt for 90 years and probably won't again. Ever. But something makes us turn up time and again. It's certainly not logic so it must be something emotive.

What you can't measure doesn't exist?

Those at the top of the pyramid, who win a lot, get enormous support. Those at the bottom lose a lot, and get little support.

You might question why those at the bottom aren't all focussing on "community" and "ethos", and getting 40,000 in the fourth division.

So of course, It can all be measured, and it's why I'm confident on this position.

UTB

 

[BushBlade]

Those at the top of the pyramid, who win a lot, get enormous support. Those at the bottom lose a lot, and get little support.

You might question why those at the bottom aren't all focussing on "community" and "ethos", and getting 40,000 in the fourth division.

So of course, It can all be measured, and it's why I'm confident on this position.

UTB

Cart before the horse. Since the abolition of the maximum wage clubs with big crowds, clubs based in cities with large populations from which they could draw support, have tended to be the successful clubs whilst the small town clubs that had been successful pre-war tended to fall away.

And the most successful managers; Busby, Chapman, Shankly, Clough all had an 'ethos'. An approach to the game, a philosophy. They might have called it a 'vision'.

But what I think you might be saying, and if so, I agree, is that you need more than just an ethos. You need the wherewithal to execute it, to understand and implement the steps you need to go from where you are to where you want to be. Without that it is, indeed, just guff.

I'm going to stop now because I'm starting to sound like a management consultant.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Maybe or maybe Warnock told Mandaric he wouldn't be taking the job, so it got offered to Redknapp.
Warnock has publically stated that he was offered the job and I haven't seen Mandaric say otherwise (feel free to provide a source).
Either way, Mandaric would hardly want to admit to the world that Redknapp was his second choice would he?
The only people who know for sure are Warnock and Mandaric and you're neither of them so you can't really state whose account is a fact
You certainly can't state as fact that he would definitely have taken the job if he was offered it. That's just a complete guess.

Firstly, there's not much point in providing a source when you limit yours to the top Google hit which is a speculative Mirror headline.

As far as I'm concerned its fact. (Bush Blade seems to think so as well) That came from NW at a party in a conversation I was privy too with people who played for him in non league, after he'd had a few red wines. He thought it was quite funny. So I've good reason to state it as a fact.

Yes I speculated that the money and being nearer home would make him a shoe in plus it was a PL job . It's not an uncommon opinion of him that he likes money is it?

The normal gregarious Neil back tracked a bit a year later in this Q&A in FourFourTwo, most unlike him

"Why didn’t you join Portsmouth last December? Be honest, did you think they were already down?
Paul Potter, via e-mail
No, I didn’t think they were already down, but enough has been said about that really. I don’t want to go into it again, it’s all gone now."

Read more at http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/neil-warnock-one-one#CL3EClsk5YzFia9l.99

Wasn't there also an FA investigation over betting patterns over the Redknapp appointment the gist being that Redknapp always had the job in his pocket and it was a betting coup.

 

[Trickymicky]

hope that made you feel good.

A bit yes, and thanks for your concern regarding how I feel. However, I felt much better on the day he left the club.

 

[sitwell]

A bit yes, and thanks for your concern regarding how I feel. However, I felt much better on the day he left the club.

Well done you ,it has been so much better since that day hasn't it.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Firstly, there's not much point in providing a source when you limit yours to the top Google hit which is a speculative Mirror headline.

As far as I'm concerned its fact. (Bush Blade seems to think so as well) That came from NW at a party in a conversation I was privy too with people who played for him in non league, after he'd had a few red wines. He thought it was quite funny. So I've good reason to state it as a fact.

Yes I speculated that the money and being nearer home would make him a shoe in plus it was a PL job . It's not an uncommon opinion of him that he likes money is it?

The normal gregarious Neil back tracked a bit a year later in this Q&A in FourFourTwo, most unlike him

"Why didn’t you join Portsmouth last December? Be honest, did you think they were already down?
Paul Potter, via e-mail
No, I didn’t think they were already down, but enough has been said about that really. I don’t want to go into it again, it’s all gone now."

Read more at http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/neil-warnock-one-one#CL3EClsk5YzFia9l.99

Wasn't there also an FA investigation over betting patterns over the Redknapp appointment the gist being that Redknapp always had the job in his pocket and it was a betting coup.

Thanks for the link to the article. An interesting read. Not sure why you think it shows he was lying just because he didn't want to rehash it all again. No doubt he would have been slagged off by some if he had discussed it when he should have been concentrating on our Premiership campaign.

You originally said that it was widely reported in the papers at the time that he hadn't been offered the job. Not that widely reported if Google doesn't bring it up readily.

Now you say that you actually learned this from someone who was at a private party with him. Why not just say that in the first place if that was your source? Again, that's hardly classed as "widely reported"

Nearer to his home? Portsmouth is 4 hours drive from Cornwall. Not exactly an easy commute there and back every day and certainly not a credible reason to switch jobs.

He likes money? Who doesn't? But he turned down the Chelsea job to stay at Notts County, so there is solid evidence that he's not totally governed by it (unless you think he was lying about that job offer as well).

How did the FA's investigation go? Have Redknapp and his associates got out of prison yet? Even if there was a betting scam the timeline allows for it. Redknapp wasn't heavily bet on until 9 days after the article I linked to. After Warnock turned the job down maybe?

The bottom line is that several people have said "I started hating Warnock after he talked to Portsmouth about their job vacancy". Surely you would agree that's crazy. Most of us would jump at the chance of doubling our wages in a more prestigious position. Warnock is hated for merely discussing it?

 

[Sean Thornton]

I'll repeat myself by saying I didn't criticise him nor said I hated him so let's clear that up to save you bringing it into the conversation again for no reason.

I said it was widely reported at the time, Google hits are generally more than one page and looking down the pages I can see that you've taken this stance before when the Pompey interview has come up on here.

What I didnt say was that the info came to me at that time, nor that I got it second hand. I was there when it happened. My original comment was about the reporting at the time, you suggested I'd no reason to believe that, well I have, and first hand at that.

Regarding the investigation it was regarding betting activity and therefore you'll see if you read it again it was never about Redknap being involved, just that it was about betting on the job he got. Its up to you if you want to question what I'm saying but at least read what I put rather than just decrying it.

You don't believe it, fair enough but all you've put forward is your opinion and a speculative Mirror headline while trying to belittle.

I have nothing against Warnock, we had some great times under him but he screwed up badly in the PL season, so I lost some of the respect I had for him, doesn't turn it into a witch hunt which you seem to need to imply.


BTW, I believe Sheffield to Cornwall is at least six hours by road. So as I said, Portsmouth is nearer his home. Nearer, not next door orca short bus ride.

 

[alcoblade]

You've got an ethos - like it or not.

If you prefer you can call it a code.

Did you call me fluffy?

My code is to concentrate on the things that lead to winning, and place little or no emphasis on those that don't.

UTB

 

[grafikhaus]

Is he still talking about this upstairs role somewhere that he's been pining over for years. Not one club has given him a chance yet, there's a reason for that.

While ever people keep employing the likes of Clough or Steve McClaren, there's hope for all of us.