Warnock demonstrated……..

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Surely the starting-point has to be - have Hecky and his coaching staff:

1. Over-achieved in view of the quality of the squad/background club situation?
2. Helped the squad achieve what could have reasonably been expected of them in the circumstances?
3. Under-achieved in view of the quality of the squad/background club situation?

Unless the answer is 3, you have to have strong reasons, a clear plan, and good available candidates in mind to justify making a change.
 

Blade56 said:
…we need to replace HJSMc if we are seriously going to try and become a regular in the most prestigious rich league in the world.

Im not going to heavily debate or justify this statement, I just wanted to get it out of my head cause it keeps coming back in to my thoughts.

Heres why. Last night Man City were 2 up with 10 minutes to go when they were awarded a penalty. Gundogan had scored 2 and Haagaland (penalty taker) handed him the ball in a kind gesture so Gundogan could score his first hat trick. The inevitable happened, Gundogan missed then Leeds scored.

My point (and a very angry Pep’s point) is there’s no room for sentiment if you are serious in top level football. Leeds could have snatch an equaliser and this 2 lost points might have handed the title to Arsenal, only the next few game will tell.

Back to HJSMc. Warnock handed them their arses on a plate on Thursday, that simple. If Warnock can do that against a strong SUFC 11 think what top managers will do to us. We should have gone out under no pressure and entertained the fans who braved a wet Thursday night and some hard earned income. But no, we were hung over ineffective rabble slowed to walking footy in the first half then hit with Huddersfield’s afterburners in the second half. Just think what managers like Pep, Klopp et Al can do to us tactically.

We have two scenarios

1. Non-sentimental approach, a buyer comes in, cash is available, clear out the players that are not in our plans but first replace HJSMc for an experienced top level coaching team. Buy proven players at this level from an eclectic mix not just GB players.

2. Sentimental approach, no new buyer, budget team based around who we can hang onto. Retain HJSMc cause they’ve “earned the opportunity to have a go” (if I hear that said one more time I’ll explode).

I think 2 is going to be the obvious outcome but as my good virtual friend Blade58 points out he’s resigned to this fate next season. Yes we will battle but little ol Sheffield United will more than likely have a lot of plates full of arse meat by this time next year.

All that said I’m proud of the team, the fans and most of all HJSMc but as pep was screaming at Haagland there’s no room for sentiment if you want to be up there, no sentimental twaddle, take the shot.
Click to expand...

Dont change your avatar mate..
 
We were 1 win away from a chance of the best performance at this level in the history of our club. Win tomorrow and it will still be the 3rd best ever - and the best for over 60 years.

We have a management team steeped in youth development, and a set of U23’s who have won for the second year in a row.

Hecky is the best head coach we could possibly have - highly educated and knowledgeable in sports science and psychology. On top of that - he is a great bloke who is adored (but not feared) by all of his players. The team togetherness could not be better.

The only thing that will cap our ability to progress to another level is finance - and it is unlikely to become available at the level necessary to sustain a regular Top half Prem team.

So we should be grateful that we have exactly the best management team possible to sustain a top half Champ / Bottom half Prem, community-based, motivated, highy professional football club.

UTB & Slava Ukraini
 
Cheesebored said:
Will they? Based on what? Are you suggesting we only want blood and thunder and pashun I reckon you're wide of the mark. I'd love us to play like Man City or an on form Arsenal every week.
Click to expand...
Of course every fan would want to to play like City but that’s never going to happen unless we find a very rich owner.

Slav was capable of taking us to another level but he couldn’t do it overnight. It was clearly going to take a couple of years but we would likely be better prepared for the premiership but fans and the board weren’t prepared to be patient.

Our fans usually want an instant impact so only certainly managers succeed here.
 
Being a football fan is ENTIRELY about sentiment. Or do you think it's logical, or rational, to dedicate a significant proportion of one's free time to cheering on one set of eleven players chasing a sphere around a field, endlessly chanting in unison that they are for example "the greatest football team" where there is considerable evidence to the contrary?
 
crazyblade1889 said:
Of course every fan would want to to play like City but that’s never going to happen unless we find a very rich owner.

Slav was capable of taking us to another level but he couldn’t do it overnight. It was clearly going to take a couple of years but we would likely be better prepared for the premiership but fans and the board weren’t prepared to be patient.

Our fans usually want an instant impact so only certainly managers succeed here.
Click to expand...

The bold...... In entering the best league in the world, any new manager would have to have an instant impact. The first few months are huge! If you fall behind too early, statistics prove that you very rarely get out of it.
 
crazyblade1889 said:
We’ve been down the route of bringing in an experienced manager with good pedigree in Slav. It didn’t work. I think only a certain type of manager can succeed at Bramall Lane. The fans will only accept a certain brand of football. With that in mind who do you propose we appoint instead?
Click to expand...
What do you mean by accepting a certain type of football?
 
Blade56 said:
If Warnock can do that against a strong SUFC 11 think what top managers will do to us
Click to expand...
To be fair, the tactics against City in the semi were spot on until individual errors undid them. Ditto the Huddersfield game - I was livid but with the players, not the management team, I’ve rarely seen so many unforced errors and such schoolboy defending.
 

Sentiment does play a constructive role in life, in football, in making good decisions on a professional basis. If it was not for sentiment, none of us would even be here making these posts.
 
Blade56 said:
…we need to replace HJSMc if we are seriously going to try and become a regular in the most prestigious rich league in the world.

Im not going to heavily debate or justify this statement, I just wanted to get it out of my head cause it keeps coming back in to my thoughts.

Heres why. Last night Man City were 2 up with 10 minutes to go when they were awarded a penalty. Gundogan had scored 2 and Haagaland (penalty taker) handed him the ball in a kind gesture so Gundogan could score his first hat trick. The inevitable happened, Gundogan missed then Leeds scored.

My point (and a very angry Pep’s point) is there’s no room for sentiment if you are serious in top level football. Leeds could have snatch an equaliser and this 2 lost points might have handed the title to Arsenal, only the next few game will tell.

Back to HJSMc. Warnock handed them their arses on a plate on Thursday, that simple. If Warnock can do that against a strong SUFC 11 think what top managers will do to us. We should have gone out under no pressure and entertained the fans who braved a wet Thursday night and some hard earned income. But no, we were hung over ineffective rabble slowed to walking footy in the first half then hit with Huddersfield’s afterburners in the second half. Just think what managers like Pep, Klopp et Al can do to us tactically.

We have two scenarios

1. Non-sentimental approach, a buyer comes in, cash is available, clear out the players that are not in our plans but first replace HJSMc for an experienced top level coaching team. Buy proven players at this level from an eclectic mix not just GB players.

2. Sentimental approach, no new buyer, budget team based around who we can hang onto. Retain HJSMc cause they’ve “earned the opportunity to have a go” (if I hear that said one more time I’ll explode).

I think 2 is going to be the obvious outcome but as my good virtual friend Blade58 points out he’s resigned to this fate next season. Yes we will battle but little ol Sheffield United will more than likely have a lot of plates full of arse meat by this time next year.

All that said I’m proud of the team, the fans and most of all HJSMc but as pep was screaming at Haagland there’s no room for sentiment if you want to be up there, no sentimental twaddle, take the shot.
Click to expand...
It’s a nice narrative that Warnock played a blinder isn’t it? But it isn’t true though, is it?

They gave up two chances first half that were clear cut and on another day would have seen them 2-0 down at the break and game over.

United we’re wasteful and only an absolute Worldy from Huddersfield got them the win.

It showed that Warnock had the breaks with him on the night.

If we create the same chances against Birmingham and they create the same openings Huddersfield had, United will win on those percentages.

It went for Warnock on the night. Good luck to him. But it could easy have been over by half time. Let’s not omit that detail.
 
Top Level manager…

Like Wilder when he took us to 9th in the PL from League One

Like Dyche was when he became longest serving PL manager with Burnley after years of Championship football

Like Howe took Bournemouth through 5 PL years from League Two

Like those kind of top level managers?

Christ you’d think some posters hadn’t lived through the dross served up by Robson, Adkins and Slav! ‘Top Level Managers’!
 
From the title, I thought he'd joined just stop oil and superglued himself to the goal posts.
 
Overthehills said:
I did think about this a bit after the Huddersfield game myself and I tried to weigh up the pros and cons of it all.

If you are going to replace the management team, then I guess there has to be multiple considerations and justifications for doing so.

You could argue that a positive that could be gained from bringing in a new management team, would be if we were to bring in someone with recent Premier League experience. We are unfortunate enough to be heading to the top flight with managerial inexperience again, just as we did with Wilder. There are a few names out there who hold experience in this league in various capacities, such as Brendan Rogers and Brian McDermott.... however I feel that in order to attract any higher calibre management team, we would have to have a workable budget as well...

But if there is any fairness in the sport, you have to agree that Hecky has more than earnt a fair crack at this. It is his biggest achievement and challenge to date, but he has delivered the goods and deserves the opportunity to go and compete at the highest level of the game.

In order to be competitive, he needs the correct backing it is as simple as that. He needs a bit of money to invest in better tools for the job. I'm not saying throw countless amounts at him because I don't think he has the former experiences to play the wholesale, expensive recruitment game. But give him a budget that will allow him to bring in a number of players that would enable us to become cometitive and hold our own.

Of course there is a sound argument for somewhat of a hybrid situation to the above... We could of course keep Hecky, Macca and Jack? And we could find an exeprienced Director Of Football behind the scenes? Someone like Brian McDermott?... He's not the most glamorous of names I know, but he's worked at Arsenal in various capacities and he knows the game and the league well.

And finally... I feel there is another consideration as well. Do you genuinely feel that we are a tenchnically gifted team?.... Personally my thoughts are NO.

We have (in my opinion) a team that is made up mainly of work horses.... I think we are quite limited in terms of technical ability and there is a huge risk of over complicating things. In terms of our own assets, we do have Berge, Ndiaye, Baldock (the international lot) and they would probably handle new ideas. But we also have a large number of limited players in my opinion....

So would a new manager be able to change things up and get anything different out of this set of lads as a whole?....

I think that Jokanovic tried to change things up and i stall new ideas. I think he attempted to change our formation and our style of play...and it didn't work. I think that Hecky's immediate revert back to 3-5-2 and 'The Wilder Way' is a clear sign that our team has been built to play in a particular shape and way....

I'm not overlt convinced that a new manager would be able to overly stamp themselves on this set of lads.

Soooo in conclusion......

If the owners stay the same....
If the investment into the squad is minimal...
If the squad is to stay the same.....

Then I see no sense in changing the management team. They know this set of lads and they known how to get the best out of them.

If suddenly we are in a position of sudden investment and disposable cash....

Then (A)... You are caution in the level in investment that you give Hecky.

Or (B).... You seek a management team with Premier League experience. BUT, I feel that if you do this.... the squad would require somewhat of an overhaul (around key players).
Click to expand...
Excellent piece Oth
 
mattbianco1 said:
13 March 2021 - United were bottom of the PL with just 4 wins in 28 games.
Hecky came in as interim boss and won 3 of the last 11.

25 November 2021 - United were 16th in the CH with 6 wins and 8 defeats from 19 games. SIX WINS as the pre-season favourites.
Hecky came in on that day and guided us to 5th, winning 15 of the last 27 games. Losing 5 games.

Today - we are 2nd in the CH, heading to the PL again. Since 25 November 2021, Hecky has accumulated 140pts in 72 games... 1.94ppg in a season and half.

Yeah let's get shut
Click to expand...
In the PL season, he got 9 points from the last 10 games (the other game was the cup defeat at Chelsea,). That's "a fighting chance of avoiding relegation" form, which given the confidence of the players must have been at rock bottom, is a reasonable performance.
 
Bladeulike said:
There’s so much flawed argument in the OP it’s hard to know where to begin. I’m not surprised you are “not going to heavily debate or justify this statement” because, to be honest, you would get shredded if you did! Conflating Haaland’s error in the Leeds game with United’s future management set-up is just bizarre. Conflating and simplifying further to suggest that leaves us with two basic scenarios is risible. I hope to God the United Board aren’t sitting there with a flip chart saying ‘Sentimental Route’ and ‘Non-Sentimental Route’ on it as the exclusive, fundamental way forward. They would all need sacking if that’s the way they conduct their business. There’s a few more scenarios to consider than that simplistic twaddle.

Explode as much as you like, the current management team have more than earned the right to continue. We are promoted with games to spare and we ground out results when it mattered when other teams ultimately flattered to deceive. We creamed this league after the very non-sentimental Jokanovic appointment was an abject failure. They have earned the right to continue because of their quantifiable, measurable, evidential based success. Replacing them with some ‘top level coaching team’ (presumable available from all good, non-sentimental retailers?) is nonsense at every level. How would you define a top level coaching team? Oh yeh, one that took a side wallowing in the bottom half of the league and got it promoted to the richest league in the world in just over a season. No sentiment, hard facts. We may not survive but that will be more down to financial clout, ownership direction and effective player purchase. The current management team achieved promotion in spite of all three of those massively important factors being an absolute bloody shambles….and you would sack them?? Unbelievable.
Click to expand...
Well - this - end of
 
My view is that HJ&SM have earned the right to have a crack at the Premier league.

In terms of sentiment the difficult choices will be made in next couple of weeks where the future of players who have delivered success over the last few seasons will be decided. I'm thinking of Fleck, Billy, Enda and JO'C. Great servants whose best days are behind them. Ruthless but making decisions like these are what differentiates good and bad managers.
 
Actually agree with the OP.

They can take Egan with them aswell.
 
Blade56 said:
…we need to replace HJSMc if we are seriously going to try and become a regular in the most prestigious rich league in the world.

Im not going to heavily debate or justify this statement, I just wanted to get it out of my head cause it keeps coming back in to my thoughts.

Heres why. Last night Man City were 2 up with 10 minutes to go when they were awarded a penalty. Gundogan had scored 2 and Haagaland (penalty taker) handed him the ball in a kind gesture so Gundogan could score his first hat trick. The inevitable happened, Gundogan missed then Leeds scored.

My point (and a very angry Pep’s point) is there’s no room for sentiment if you are serious in top level football. Leeds could have snatch an equaliser and this 2 lost points might have handed the title to Arsenal, only the next few game will tell.

Back to HJSMc. Warnock handed them their arses on a plate on Thursday, that simple. If Warnock can do that against a strong SUFC 11 think what top managers will do to us. We should have gone out under no pressure and entertained the fans who braved a wet Thursday night and some hard earned income. But no, we were hung over ineffective rabble slowed to walking footy in the first half then hit with Huddersfield’s afterburners in the second half. Just think what managers like Pep, Klopp et Al can do to us tactically.

We have two scenarios

1. Non-sentimental approach, a buyer comes in, cash is available, clear out the players that are not in our plans but first replace HJSMc for an experienced top level coaching team. Buy proven players at this level from an eclectic mix not just GB players.

2. Sentimental approach, no new buyer, budget team based around who we can hang onto. Retain HJSMc cause they’ve “earned the opportunity to have a go” (if I hear that said one more time I’ll explode).

I think 2 is going to be the obvious outcome but as my good virtual friend Blade58 points out he’s resigned to this fate next season. Yes we will battle but little ol Sheffield United will more than likely have a lot of plates full of arse meat by this time next year.

All that said I’m proud of the team, the fans and most of all HJSMc but as pep was screaming at Haagland there’s no room for sentiment if you want to be up there, no sentimental twaddle, take the shot.
Click to expand...
I can only assume you’re fishing for a row or desperate for attention. Hecky picked us up after the meltdown from Wilder and finished what could have been a total embarrassment of a season in the PL with a strong finish. Many on here predicted meltdown and desolation but he took us to within a penalty kick of promotion back up. This season, frankly, we’ve cruised to promotion despite serious heat from the chasing pack and you come on here with such an attention seeking post? Pathetic.
 
Carlton Blade said:
I guarantee you nobody read past the first, laughable paragraph.
Click to expand...
Blade56 said:
…we need to replace HJSMc if we are seriously going to try and become a regular in the most prestigious rich league in the world.

Im not going to heavily debate or justify this statement, I just wanted to get it out of my head cause it keeps coming back in to my thoughts.

Heres why. Last night Man City were 2 up with 10 minutes to go when they were awarded a penalty. Gundogan had scored 2 and Haagaland (penalty taker) handed him the ball in a kind gesture so Gundogan could score his first hat trick. The inevitable happened, Gundogan missed then Leeds scored.

My point (and a very angry Pep’s point) is there’s no room for sentiment if you are serious in top level football. Leeds could have snatch an equaliser and this 2 lost points might have handed the title to Arsenal, only the next few game will tell.

Back to HJSMc. Warnock handed them their arses on a plate on Thursday, that simple. If Warnock can do that against a strong SUFC 11 think what top managers will do to us. We should have gone out under no pressure and entertained the fans who braved a wet Thursday night and some hard earned income. But no, we were hung over ineffective rabble slowed to walking footy in the first half then hit with Huddersfield’s afterburners in the second half. Just think what managers like Pep, Klopp et Al can do to us tactically.

We have two scenarios

1. Non-sentimental approach, a buyer comes in, cash is available, clear out the players that are not in our plans but first replace HJSMc for an experienced top level coaching team. Buy proven players at this level from an eclectic mix not just GB players.

2. Sentimental approach, no new buyer, budget team based around who we can hang onto. Retain HJSMc cause they’ve “earned the opportunity to have a go” (if I hear that said one more time I’ll explode).

I think 2 is going to be the obvious outcome but as my good virtual friend Blade58 points out he’s resigned to this fate next season. Yes we will battle but little ol Sheffield United will more than likely have a lot of plates full of arse meat by this time next year.

All that said I’m proud of the team, the fans and most of all HJSMc but as pep was screaming at Haagland there’s no room for sentiment if you want to be up there, no sentimental twaddle, take the shot.
Click to expand...
I get what you are saying but it’s one where you should have just kept it in your head.
No place for progression talk on here.
 

ucandomagic said:
We were 1 win away from a chance of the best performance at this level in the history of our club. Win tomorrow and it will still be the 3rd best ever - and the best for over 60 years.

We have a management team steeped in youth development, and a set of U23’s who have won for the second year in a row.

Hecky is the best head coach we could possibly have - highly educated and knowledgeable in sports science and psychology. On top of that - he is a great bloke who is adored (but not feared) by all of his players. The team togetherness could not be better.

The only thing that will cap our ability to progress to another level is finance - and it is unlikely to become available at the level necessary to sustain a regular Top half Prem team.

So we should be grateful that we have exactly the best management team possible to sustain a top half Champ / Bottom half Prem, community-based, motivated, highy professional football club.

UTB & Slava Ukraini
Click to expand...
Spot on. Hecky comes across as a very level headed manager when things don’t go our way on the pitch ie. Poor officiating etc. With VAR fuck ups on the horizon Hecky won’t be flapping and causing a scene on the touch line like Klopp, Pep and Arteta who are , quite frankly, an embarrassment given the lofty position their clubs are in. So having a calm and assured manager, albeit with very limited PL experience, will come across positively for SUFC as a club and us as supporters. Finishing 17th will be the target whoever is managing the club so let Hecky have his chance.

UTB !
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Back
Top Bottom