Vinicius Souza

[mancunianblade]

I think we would have had to pay £10-£12m for Doyle, which I totally would have paid. I really think we need to be in for him in the future especially with his position in wolves starting 11, he's totally Norwood's replacement.

Even with how good Doyle is I’d still have hope of him hanging around should we be relegated, I don’t have the same confidence with Souza

 

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

It's probably in our interests to give Souza a go at DM despite how poor he's been. We've spent a bit on him and he's on a longer contact than Norwood so it's worth giving him a go next to Hamer if we are serious about building for the future

Given the tackling stats of Souza already being in the top 5 in the Prem.. how is he going to do even more if hes made DM? (Surely these stats suggest he is indeed acting in a DM fashion already btw)

As with McBurnies headers.. winning the ball is one thing, doing something productive with it is something else entirely.

 

[Balham]

Even with how good Doyle is I’d still have hope of him hanging around should we be relegated, I don’t have the same confidence with Souza

Agree with this but given that Doyle was refusing to accept the standard 40% relegation wage reduction the point is moot.

 

[BalticBlade]

If you count Marcelo then you have to count Hamer..

Good point

 

[SUFCScorecard]

It's probably in our interests to give Souza a go at DM despite how poor he's been. We've spent a bit on him and he's on a longer contact than Norwood so it's worth giving him a go next to Hamer if we are serious about building for the future

We played that way at Spurs and West Ham .

He was terrible at Spurs, but actually had one of his best performances at West Ham. I don't think he knows what to do with himself when Norwood is next to him because Norwood does so much.

Right now if you are going to play one of them Norwood just offers so much more. He is much better defensively than he gets credit for (was outstanding defending against Brighton) and is obviously immeasurably better with the ball.

Is Norwood good enough for the PL? - probably not. We knew that from last time. But he's not far off and he's the best we have at the position and likely has more a few more effective years left in him at Championship level. There are lots of rumors about whether we could or couldn't have got Doyle, we've searched for years to find a long-term replacement for Norwood and its massively frustrating that we couldn't nail it down once we'd found one.

 

[Striker]

Norwood was being left out 3 years ago in the Premier, last year results improved dramatically when he was left out in the championship.
He's the problem, he can't run,tackle or drive with the ball.
He's now only effective when we're on the front foot and he's playing in space and not under pressure, this rarely happens at premiership level. As soon as he's put under any pressure he plays sideways and backwards.
He's got to be replaced by someone who can drive through the lines.

 

[jono_t2000]

I can understand the Souza comments re his ability on the ball etc but lack of defensive awareness not so much? He’s been essentially defending on his own in midfield and the numbers back that up, problem occurs when he wins the ball and can’t do anything with it which is probably why Norwood is next to him, 1 to win the ball the other to play it - we need someone in there that can do both. No idea who that would be but we don’t have that player at the club View attachment 174615

Tbf stats can be misleading.. it's kinda like saying because Wes has saved the most shots he's a great shot stopper.. when in reality it just means we've been peppered with shots.

In fact if you look at some true tackle percentages (tackles won vs tackles missed, fouls given away and times run past), Souza doesn't even appear in the list.

(Interestingly enough Trusty does appear)

 

[SUFCScorecard]

Tbf stats can be misleading.. it's kinda like saying because Wes has saved the most shots he's a great shot stopper.. when in reality it just means we've been peppered with shots.

In fact if you look at some true tackle percentages (tackles won vs tackles missed, fouls given away and times run past), Souza doesn't even appear in the list.

(Interestingly enough Trusty does appear)

View attachment 174634

In reviewing the games for my scorecard, I notice Souza does a lot of 'useless' tackles. Gets a foot in while we are defensively set but doesn't win possession. There IS something to be said for making it difficult for opponents with these niggly challenges, but I treat these like routine passes that don't progress the ball and uncontested headers - neutral minimum expectation actions.

He seems to rarely get the important tackles in during a counter, or when we are defensively stretched which is why I don't score him that highly.

 

[Lord Eddard Muir]

Marcelo = cult hero. I hope he's well

He scored in the first match I went to, so he'll do for me.

 

[ancientblade]

i would expect souza to be on his bike if we get relegated didnt look too bad in the first few games but has dropped off dramatically in the last few games and just didnt look interested at brighton just dont think hes a sheffield united type of player

 

[TJ blade]

i would expect souza to be on his bike if we get relegated didnt look too bad in the first few games but has dropped off dramatically in the last few games and just didnt look interested at brighton just dont think hes a sheffield united type of player

With what I've seen of him which is every match nobody's going to buy him for £10 mill, my guess is he will end up at some none discript club abroad.

 

[puppet]

The club are probably hoping from next summer the Norwood replacement is the other Oliver on the books currently down in Burslem

The old McCabe mantra...
1. He's not for sale
2. He wanted to go/we couldn't offer the wages [insert crap team name here] offered him but we will be replacing him within this transfer window
3. [Day after window closes, facing the inevitable no replacement purchased backlash] His replacement is already AT the club

 

[highgreeninjapan]

A lot of the Souza defending is based on the stat of him being in the top 5 for tackles. It should be clarified that this stat is for tackles attempted, not successful tackles.



Of those 38 attempted tackles, 17 have been classed as “successful”. I feel like it’s probably more helpful to use the “successful tackles per 90” (although granted, it’s a little early in the season). If we do that, Souza is well well down the list. Norwood is our number 1 with 1.9 tackles per 90 (26th in the whole league). Trusty is our number 2 (also 1.9 but with a lower success rate than Norwood). Souza is number 4, sharing a 1.6 tackles per 90 stat with our tough tackling enforcer, McAtee. Puts him at

 

[South Sea Blade]

Lots of good technical analysis in this thread, together with some interesting stats. I thought I'd give it all some serious time to determine what it all means......No bugger that.....my eyes tell me everything - he's slow and shit.

 

[Snowflake]

We said the same about Basham when he first arrived. Look how that turned out

Give him a season to acclimatise.

…same went for Bob Booker. For the first few matches it looked as if he had already retired !!

 

[Snowflake]

Norwood was being left out 3 years ago in the Premier, last year results improved dramatically when he was left out in the championship.
He's the problem, he can't run,tackle or drive with the ball.
He's now only effective when we're on the front foot and he's playing in space and not under pressure, this rarely happens at premiership level. As soon as he's put under any pressure he plays sideways and backwards.
He's got to be replaced by someone who can drive through the lines.

We don’t have one of those yet !

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

Lots of good technical analysis in this thread, together with some interesting stats. I thought I'd give it all some serious time to determine what it all means......No bugger that.....my eyes tell me everything - he's slow and shit.

He went to Burnley i thought?

 

[derfblade.3]

If you look back through this seasons vids of our goals conceded you will see Vinny on many occasions ambling behind the player who scores and not busting a gut to get to him. Check it out.

 

[SUFCScorecard]

i would expect souza to be on his bike if we get relegated didnt look too bad in the first few games but has dropped off dramatically in the last few games and just didnt look interested at brighton just dont think hes a sheffield united type of player

I think we'll struggle to shift him. I'd honestly bite your hand off for half of what we for paid in the upcoming transfer window.

 

[Bladesman]

Tbf stats can be misleading.. it's kinda like saying because Wes has saved the most shots he's a great shot stopper.. when in reality it just means we've been peppered with shots.

In fact if you look at some true tackle percentages (tackles won vs tackles missed, fouls given away and times run past), Souza doesn't even appear in the list.

(Interestingly enough Trusty does appear)

View attachment 174634

Trusty has arguably been our best player of late.

 

[jt64]

If you look back through this seasons vids of our goals conceded you will see Vinny on many occasions ambling behind the player who scores and not busting a gut to get to him. Check it out.

You got a couple of specific examples of this?

 

[Isaw Joeshaw]

Trusty has arguably been our best player of late.

Trusty looks a good footballer to me and when Anel is back , I wouldn’t mind seeing him moved into the defensive midfield role just as Pep has done with John Stones and where he has blossomed .

One thing for sure is that he would make a much better fist of it than Mr. Souza has done so far .

 

[SUFCScorecard]

Trusty looks a good footballer to me and when Anel is back , I wouldn’t mind seeing him moved into the defensive midfield role just as Pep has done with John Stones and where he has blossomed .

One thing for sure is that he would make a much better fist of it than Mr. Souza has done so far .

Think Anel would be better suited than Trusty in that role. But you may be onto something.

 

[BLADES1988]

He dunt GERRITFORRAD tho

 

[CaptainMorgans]

Trusty looks a good footballer to me and when Anel is back , I wouldn’t mind seeing him moved into the defensive midfield role just as Pep has done with John Stones and where he has blossomed .

One thing for sure is that he would make a much better fist of it than Mr. Souza has done so far .

In recent days I've seen suggestions of playing Bogle, Trusty and Larouci in midfield.
We carry very little goal threat as it is.

 

[Dnblade]

A lot of the Souza defending is based on the stat of him being in the top 5 for tackles. It should be clarified that this stat is for tackles attempted, not successful tackles.

View attachment 174658

Of those 38 attempted tackles, 17 have been classed as “successful”. I feel like it’s probably more helpful to use the “successful tackles per 90” (although granted, it’s a little early in the season). If we do that, Souza is well well down the list. Norwood is our number 1 with 1.9 tackles per 90 (26th in the whole league). Trusty is our number 2 (also 1.9 but with a lower success rate than Norwood). Souza is number 4, sharing a 1.6 tackles per 90 stat with our tough tackling enforcer, McAtee. Puts him at

View attachment 174659

But couldn't that be interpreted though as 38 times he was in the right place to attempt a tackle rather than nowhere to be seen and making 17/17 tackles.

 

[Bladey_blade]

Trusty looks a good footballer to me and when Anel is back , I wouldn’t mind seeing him moved into the defensive midfield role just as Pep has done with John Stones and where he has blossomed .

One thing for sure is that he would make a much better fist of it than Mr. Souza has done so far .

We don't even play our career CDM in CDM never mind an out of position centre half

 

[Frank the tank]

Trusty looks a good footballer to me and when Anel is back , I wouldn’t mind seeing him moved into the defensive midfield role just as Pep has done with John Stones and where he has blossomed .

One thing for sure is that he would make a much better fist of it than Mr. Souza has done so far .

with anel we could switch between a back four and a five during games which woukd be a big tactical advantage
only trouble is his reactions look shot to pieces at this level which is strange for an international player
maybe a spell of not having to second guess bombscare egan might help

 

[Isaw Joeshaw]

In recent days I've seen suggestions of playing Bogle, Trusty and Larouci in midfield.
We carry very little goal threat as it is.

In all the formations I’m aware of , the goal threat comes the striker / strikers and the attacking midfield players not the defensive ones ,which is where I suggested Trusty might be more effective than at least one of our present incumbents .

 

[jt64]

But couldn't that be interpreted though as 38 times he was in the right place to attempt a tackle rather than nowhere to be seen and making 17/17 tackles.

Don't try and use logical thinking to rationalise statistics, we don't do that here