Villa ghost goal will cost us Europe

[Inter_blade83]

Those "occluded" images have conveniently never emerged. And there hasn't been another similar incident before or since. Personally I think they're just covering up for forgetting to switch Hawkeye on.
VAR could, and should, have intervened - it's exactly the kind of "clear and obvious" error it was introduced for. It's as clear as day from the TV pictures that the ball crossed the line - at one point the keeper is holding the ball against the back of the post.

It was mentioned at the time that VAR wasn't allowed to get involved... or some shit like that.

Basically as it was goal line stuff VAR didnt touch it.

 

[BazWainwright]

It quite obviously wasnt turned on but nobody dare admit it

And wasn't it the feted Mike Oliver reffing?

Any black mark against him and the whole of PGMOL would hev liquidated

 

[CPB]

I don't think this goal meant we didn't qualify for Europe. Didn't we finish about 5 points off in the end?

But had Villa gone down we may well have been in 1st place for Watkins and Matty Cash.

Watkins was our first choice striker to sign that summer but Villa got in there instead.
I believe Cash was higher up the list than Bogle as well.

Whether this would have changed the trajectory of the following season enough that we stayed up. Who knows. But certainly in the case of Watkins he is a far superior striker than what we signed. Which was Brewster.

 

[GeorgeDonis1889]

Still think it's weird that VAR couldn't be used to check a decision when the goal-line "technology" was either not working or (I grew to fucking hate this word) "occluded.

It should have been the end of VAR. The exact situation they said it was brought in for and they did fuck all. We should have made more of it at the time which Wilder has since said. One of the worst decisions of all time.

 

[GrunkyPeep]

It should have been the end of VAR. The exact situation they said it was brought in for and they did fuck all. We should have made more of it at the time which Wilder has since said. One of the worst decisions of all time.

If my memory is correct, VAR wasn't allowed to intervene. They could only have a look at "goals" and because the watch didn't flash to say it was a goal, they couldn't have a look.

Which is one of the stupidest fucking things I've ever heard.

 

[Trigger Blade]

It quite obviously wasnt turned on but nobody dare admit it

This may be a well known story but I hadn’t heard it. At the evening with Blades Legends at the City Hall recently, Billy Sharp said that as they came out after half time v Villa, the ref’s watch beeped to confirm the ball had crossed the line. The players heard it and suggested to the ref that he should ask Villa to let us score a goal unchallenged to even things up, but that didn’t happen.

 

[Deaneandagana]

This may be a well known story but I hadn’t heard it. At the evening with Blades Legends at the City Hall recently, Billy Sharp said that as they came out after half time v Villa, the ref’s watch beeped to confirm the ball had crossed the line. The players heard it and suggested to the ref that he should ask Villa to let us score a goal unchallenged to even things up, but that didn’t happen.

 

[radio]

Absolutely ridiculous that VAR didn't intervene ,,,
Ignoring that , I did wonder if the referee having seen the keeper fall backwards and the reaction of the players and was actually going to award a goal ,then a quick glance to his watch which hadn't indicated the ball had crossed the line and at that moment thought to himself " I got away with one there I would have looked stupid awarding a goal when my watch shows it hadn't crossed the line ,, I am glad I got this new technology to help me "

 

[Nah den]

Still think it's weird that VAR couldn't be used to check a decision when the goal-line "technology" was either not working or (I grew to fucking hate this word) "occluded.

I don't think that cost us Europe, I think COVID did that. After playing City and Liverpool, both away, over the new year, we only lost one of the next 7 until lockdown (0-1 at home to man city). We were, by our modest standards, flying. I genuinely believe we would have made it into Europe that season if not for the shutdown and then the awkward restart.

I don't get the COVID cost us Europe argument. COVID happened to everyone, why did it impact us more than others?

 

[Willglynning]

I don't get the COVID cost us Europe argument. COVID happened to everyone, why did it impact us more than others?

It completely derailed our momentum; with our players coming back from the break notably unfit and significantly lacking in match practice when compared to other clubs that clearly have much more disciplined and high budget training facilities and fitness policy.

I do also think that the psychological side of not having the fans in the stadium did play a role too. Everyone had this, of course, but I think our team performances were being amplified by the overall atmosphere and positive energy in the stadiums, both home and with our loud away following that season.

 

[Rodley]

It completely derailed our momentum; with our players coming back from the break notably unfit and significantly lacking in match practice when compared to other clubs that clearly have much more disciplined and high budget training facilities and fitness policy.

I do also think that the psychological side of not having the fans in the stadium did play a role too. Everyone had this, of course, but I think our team performances were being amplified by the overall atmosphere and positive energy in the stadiums, both home and with our loud away following that season.

The reality is we relied too heavily on momentum and cheaped out on signings. It caught up with us in the end, as it has everytime we get promoted to the top flight, and we ended up relegated.

 

[bladesmanluke]

I don't think this goal meant we didn't qualify for Europe. Didn't we finish about 5 points off in the end?

But had Villa gone down we may well have been in 1st place for Watkins and Matty Cash.

Watkins was our first choice striker to sign that summer but Villa got in there instead.
I believe Cash was higher up the list than Bogle as well.

Whether this would have changed the trajectory of the following season enough that we stayed up. Who knows. But certainly in the case of Watkins he is a far superior striker than what we signed. Which was Brewster.

More about the momentum though. If we won the first game back and picked up where we left off I reckon we'd have made up those extra three points we'd have needed. Ancient history now of course, but what a sliding doors moment for the club. As consequential as the Tevez affair and The VAR decision at Wembley.

 

[Brian Blessed]

If my memory is correct, VAR wasn't allowed to intervene. They could only have a look at "goals" and because the watch didn't flash to say it was a goal, they couldn't have a look.

Which is one of the stupidest fucking things I've ever heard.

It was literally a goal that clearly should have stood and wasn't given, you really can't get a more clear and obvious error than that in football, which was the whole point of VAR being introduced.

 

[Kendal]

A sliding door moment maybe, it could have been us celebrating in Europe!!

#GoneToVilla

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

It's madness that the goal wasn't given.

Perhaps the best recent example of common sense not being able to intervene with a decision because of bullshit rules preventing it.

Everybody knew that the ball had crossed the line, the referee could simply have been alerted to this but no, not allowed.

We'd seen this happen before with the Pedro Mendes goal for Tottenham against Man Utd in 2005 and the Lampard goal against Germany at the 2010 World Cup.

The technology we brought into the game was supposed to stop incidents like this ever happening again but with events such as these you don't even need VAR or goal line technology.

All three of these goals were clear and obvious just from replays from the main TV cameras.

 

[Greenwich Blade]

Still think it's weird that VAR couldn't be used to check a decision when the goal-line "technology" was either not working or (I grew to fucking hate this word) "occluded.

I don't think that cost us Europe, I think COVID did that. After playing City and Liverpool, both away, over the new year, we only lost one of the next 7 until lockdown (0-1 at home to man city). We were, by our modest standards, flying. I genuinely believe we would have made it into Europe that season if not for the shutdown and then the awkward restart.

They've still not responded to my Google review:

 

[BazWainwright]

COVID did affect certain teams, but it's no excuse. Crowds or no crowds, everyone had the challenges.

What messed us up was we were playing a unique system that many in the PL couldn't deal with. 3-5-2 with attacking centrebacks and overlapping wingbacks, two sets of three units playing off each other, dropped pivots as cover decent central pairing of target and executioner up front and options on the far post. So many teams could not even get plan #2 or plan #3 to counter it.

Three months with no football and everyone studied it and sussed it. Villa just stopped us playing it in that game and as much as we tried to get momentum, it was negated. Just double up on the wing attacking play, force us wide into a kill zone, dispossess us trying to pass it round and hit us on the counter as the committed players struggled to get back into position. That was it. United unlocked. From that moment on, Wilderball was dead. First game back in the new season and Wolves tore us to pieces. We didn't win a League game from July to January.

 

[Varkanoid]

This may be a well known story but I hadn’t heard it. At the evening with Blades Legends at the City Hall recently, Billy Sharp said that as they came out after half time v Villa, the ref’s watch beeped to confirm the ball had crossed the line. The players heard it and suggested to the ref that he should ask Villa to let us score a goal unchallenged to even things up, but that didn’t happen.

I've heard that story too before. Guaranteed they watched the footage at half time and saw it was a goal.

 

[Sharp as a blade]

COVID did affect certain teams, but it's no excuse. Crowds or no crowds, everyone had the challenges.

What messed us up was we were playing a unique system that many in the PL couldn't deal with. 3-5-2 with attacking centrebacks and overlapping wingbacks, two sets of three units playing off each other, dropped pivots as cover decent central pairing of target and executioner up front and options on the far post. So many teams could not even get plan #2 or plan #3 to counter it.

Three months with no football and everyone studied it and sussed it. Villa just stopped us playing it in that game and as much as we tried to get momentum, it was negated. Just double up on the wing attacking play, force us wide into a kill zone, dispossess us trying to pass it round and hit us on the counter as the committed players struggled to get back into position. That was it. United unlocked. From that moment on, Wilderball was dead. First game back in the new season and Wolves tore us to pieces. We didn't win a League game from July to January.

Are you suggesting that the entire season up to that point, no one had done their research on us and how we played, despite it being spoke about every week on sky sports / MOTD. But then "everyone" used lockdown to specifically study us?

The argument that we were "sussed" out crops up far too often and is incorrect in my opinion.

The second seasons we weren't sussed out. We lost JOC. Who was both an absolutely fantastic defender and a real athlete. Losing him meant we were very one dimensional down the right side. We couldn't switch play quickly and overload down the other side, and became a team that was much easier to defend against.

We won so many games that first season by fine margins. Losing JOC meant both our defence and build up play suffered. Those fine margin wins turned into fine margin losses.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Are you suggesting that the entire season up to that point, no one had done their research on us and how we played, despite it being spoke about every week on sky sports / MOTD. But then "everyone" used lockdown to specifically study us?

The argument that we were "sussed" out crops up far too often and is incorrect in my opinion.

The second seasons we weren't sussed out. We lost JOC. Who was both an absolutely fantastic defender and a real athlete. Losing him meant we were very one dimensional down the right side. We couldn't switch play quickly and overload down the other side, and became a team that was much easier to defend against.

We won so many games that first season by fine margins. Losing JOC meant both our defence and build up play suffered. Those fine margin wins turned into fine margin losses.

Ramsdale was also a downgrade on Henderson.

God only knows how that lad went on to play nearly a hundred games for Arsenal.

 

[BazWainwright]

Are you suggesting that the entire season up to that point, no one had done their research on us and how we played, despite it being spoke about every week on sky sports / MOTD. But then "everyone" used lockdown to specifically study us?

The argument that we were "sussed" out crops up far too often and is incorrect in my opinion.

The second seasons we weren't sussed out. We lost JOC. Who was both an absolutely fantastic defender and a real athlete. Losing him meant we were very one dimensional down the right side. We couldn't switch play quickly and overload down the other side, and became a team that was much easier to defend against.

We won so many games that first season by fine margins. Losing JOC meant both our defence and build up play suffered. Those fine margin wins turned into fine margin losses.

I'm suggesting entirely that. No one seemed to have an answer once we hit our stride.

Look at our results. Sure, we won by fine margins but we got results all the same, against some pretty surprising sides. Our win and draw rate was breathtakingly surprising given we'd just come up and were expecting to be destroyed and at the bottom (how familiar that feels right now)

Many clubs tried to deal with the marauding push up each flank with Baldock/Basham/Lundstram up one side and Stevens/Fleck/JOC up the other, Norwood as anchor and Billy plus Mousett/McB/Didsy up front. Other teams just couldn't cope because we (for a change) turned and faced their goal and pushed up the pitch to play in their half. Very little passing it sideways or backwards. We went on the attack and they didn't like it. The method to deal with it (and it worked when we tried in subsequent seasons to play Wilderball) was to isolate the wingbacks and press us into the kill zone outside the penalty areas and either force us backward or wait for us to cough up possession and then counter. Wolves did it from almost the first few minutes with Jiminez's goal at the Lane. Other clubs just neutralised any attacks down the flanks and our answer? Give it to Norwood to ping it.

 

[Champagneblade]

Well Cole Palmer has got no chin, and my chin is fucking massive!

I knew I’d seen you before!

 

[Sportbilly /Detroit Blade]

I knew I’d seen you before!

View attachment 237621

Not far off the mark!

 

[Champagneblade]

A sliding door moment maybe, it could have been us celebrating in Europe!!

Been through this thread today. Can someone point out the one where Clive Betts intervenes?

 

[Fish Head Blade]

Been through this thread today. Can someone point out the one where Clive Betts intervenes?

Can someone also explain why Clive Betts and blunkett didn’t get involved when we had half our south stand closed or the minus 2 points

 

[ForgeBlade]

I don't get the COVID cost us Europe argument. COVID happened to everyone, why did it impact us more than others?

Fair point, but momentum plays a huge part in football, even so when a side has a surprisingly good season. How often does a team on a really good run suddenly lose a game, or drop some unexpected points after an international break for example?

I think it impacted us disproportionately precisely BECAUSE we were playing so far above our expected level. We were playing a new system, that surprised many sides that on paper should have battered us. We were on a good run of form, players were fit and firing, and the whole mood around the club was amazing.

Suddenly there's a 3 month break. The momentum is killed stone dead. Now, I think the club and the players have to take some responsibility. We looked lethargic and sluggish at the restart as I remember it, and that's down to training and personal responsibility for fitness etc during lockdown.

But I don't think it's unfair to say that it hit us harder than many. Not because of some imaginary grudge or voodoo against the club, but because we were already exceeding expectations by such a huge margin, and trying to restart that, without the benefit of the crowds, and the continuing of the momentum we'd built up, was a step too far.

 

[ATL Recs]

Fair point, but momentum plays a huge part in football, even so when a side has a surprisingly good season. How often does a team on a really good run suddenly lose a game, or drop some unexpected points after an international break for example?

I think it impacted us disproportionately precisely BECAUSE we were playing so far above our expected level. We were playing a new system, that surprised many sides that on paper should have battered us. We were on a good run of form, players were fit and firing, and the whole mood around the club was amazing.

Suddenly there's a 3 month break. The momentum is killed stone dead. Now, I think the club and the players have to take some responsibility. We looked lethargic and sluggish at the restart as I remember it, and that's down to training and personal responsibility for fitness etc during lockdown.

But I don't think it's unfair to say that it hit us harder than But many. Not because of some imaginary grudge or voodoo against the club, but because we were already exceeding expectations by such a huge margin, and trying to restart that, without the benefit of the crowds, and the continuing of the momentum we'd built up, was a step too far.

But we still managed to hammer Chelsea and Spurs

 

[programmechap]

Ramsdale was also a downgrade on Henderson.

God only knows how that lad went on to play nearly a hundred games for Arsenal.

I agree. Of the 14 games we lost before the end of 2020. 11 were by 1 goal. Had we had O'Connell and Henderson we would have got some draws and wins from those games.

 

[Nah den]

It completely derailed our momentum; with our players coming back from the break notably unfit and significantly lacking in match practice when compared to other clubs that clearly have much more disciplined and high budget training facilities and fitness policy.

I do also think that the psychological side of not having the fans in the stadium did play a role too. Everyone had this, of course, but I think our team performances were being amplified by the overall atmosphere and positive energy in the stadiums, both home and with our loud away following that season.

But our players coming back unfit without match practice wasn't due to Covid, it was due (if true) to a lack of professionalism and fitness work. Again, everyone had time off, if we came back worse relative to others that's not due to covid, it's due to the lack of work we put in.

Of course we'll never know, but the whole "if not for Covid we would have got into Europe" smacks me of Blades tinted glasses.

 

[SE1Blade]

But our players coming back unfit without match practice wasn't due to Covid, it was due (if true) to a lack of professionalism and fitness work. Again, everyone had time off, if we came back worse relative to others that's not due to covid, it's due to the lack of work we put in.

Of course we'll never know, but the whole "if not for Covid we would have got into Europe" smacks me of Blades tinted glasses.

I heard that it was quite the opposite. Thinking that we might be back in a few weeks Wilder wanted the players kept sharp and gave them all individuall plans to stay sharp whilst other teams rested.
As it was we didn’t come back for 4 months and in comparison our players were exhausted while other teams had refreshed.

The lack of atmosphere was certainly also more detrimental to us than the bigger teams overall despite us picking up the odd good result (Spurs & Chelsea).