Villa ghost goal will cost us Europe

[BlairBlade]

A win at Villa does not necessarily equal a win against Newcastle. Just as wins against Spurs, Wolves and Chelsea did not equal a sufficient 'confidence boost' to provide wins against Leicester and Everton.

Who knows what the outcome of that Villa game would have been had we been awarded that goal. It is far from certain that we would have won the game. It may have gavanised Villa and we may have lost. Or we may have gone on to win comfortably. Who knows? The whole dynamic of the game would have changed. The reality is that our performance was not good throughout that game and in that context a draw was not a bad result.

The games that have really put paid to our European hopes are Leicester and Everton. Two sides who were in poor form when we played them.

However, regardless of that and even if we lose to Southampton and finish tenth, the whole club deserve great praise for what has been achieved and I certainly won't be agonising over the goal that wasn't given.

I think any lawyers would be saying something along the lines of your second paragraph should Watford, or anyone else, use the "ghost goal" as a reason to relegate Villa in place of themselves.
Trying to prove not awarding that goal caused loss maybe just a little difficult. Maybe if it had been scored in stoppage time, somewhere near the 95th minute, the argument might be a little stronger.
We should stay well clear of it all.
If Watford do go down can we go for Deloufeu?

 

[Gimli]

Talking the business end now, the bit where squad depth comes into play, that’s all. Morrison, Rodwell and Zicovic aren’t exactly doing it are they? I’m just a realist that loves my team, sees 11points in the past 30 and see the next Blackpool, Huddersfield or any other team that is on a slide into season two.

So enough points to see us safe then...

 

[BanderSerge]

How was the Villa goal a "fact" that we'd go on to get 3pts even if the goal had stood we still had another 45 minutes to play at 1-0 up..

A simple yes or no will suffice. Did Norwood score a legitimate goal at villa park?

 

[Foody]

For me we need to just let this go, for a number of reasons. Firstly being given a goal with a full half to play is no guarantee of 3 points. Obviously it would have increased our chances, but there's no way we can catagorically say that 'if that goal stands we would be 2 points better of'.
Secondly the real reason we've missed out is that our form and performances post Covid haven't been good enough for a European spots. We can't afford to lose to Newcastle, Leicester and Everton: we needed at least 4 points from those to keep in the running.

Finally football has to be really careful about how this is handled. Yes it was a goal and yes it was an error. But errors happen, even when it's factual and not interpretation. If we allow on field decisions to make it to the court room, we are opening Pandora's box. Legal teams will challenge everything and the excitement of football will be further diminished. Before a ball was kicked I thought VAR would spoil football as a spectacle and I remain convinced of that. Further interference will only heighten that.

Ultimately its been a phenomenal season. Our players and management team have done us proud. We've been the single biggest over achievers in the country and are therefore the happiest and luckiest fan base in the country. I couldn't be prouder of my club at the moment and focusing on issues out of our control detracts from that.

 

[Deadbat]

Massive tin hat on post.....

Interesting seen loads of Blades sending out tweets and trying to get Watford or Bournemouth fans involved. Nearly all have not been arsed. Most just said we (Watford/Bournemouth) have been crap. Lots of Villa fans citing a perfectly good goal v Palace and comparing it (not sure quite the same) saying it's swings and roundabouts.

Was interesting though that all the talk Blades fans have of legal action and not seen anyone hardly from those other clubs say that they would want to go down that route. All the tweets seem to be from Blades? It's a bit bizarre.

Not sure it would happen (court case) or they would even have a case?

Then what happens so Villa put a counter claim in for there goal v Palace? Then others do the same etc, etc.. As Foody said we would have court cases every season for mistakes (VAR/Referee/Hawkeye)

I just thought it was interesting that only our fans seem to be so desperate for this to go further - the fans of teams that might now be really affected don't even seem to have given it a second thought?

It annoyed and angered me at the time (I wrote a letter!) but lets not be that club/supporters who go on and on about something. It does not sit with me well - this victim mentality that a lot of Sheffield United fans often seem to talk about quite a lot. It goes back to the Tevez thing (yes that was wrong) IThe hawkeye explanation was wrong - it should have been a goal - Hawkeye lied. You know what over the years - so have refs. So have VAR officials. So have Premier League officials. It happens. We aren't going to change it now. Other football clubs have been wronged for things over the years. To listen to some fans you would think they genuinely think everyone is out to get us and always will. Do people genuinelly think that people high up make these decisions as they really want to screw us over? Seriously. Maybe a few due to Mr Warnock may have had that thought but now - with a well liked manager, club and set up - most seem to like us. Do people really think they did not switch the hawkeye on as this could lead to Man Utd or Spurs getting Europe ahead of us if a goal went in - it could have happened for a Villa goal. They made a mistake. It was crap. In the end it has not mattered anyway to us. If those other clubs feel it is an avenue they want to explore if they go down - let them - but not sure they will get very far.

Let's show them class and move on or we will just go on and on for months when actually noone outside a percentage of our fans care or are even mentioning it anymore?

Not totally related but loved Paul Cook's interview last night - his team had been relegated in cruel circumstances (due to ownership stuff about his head) and the first thing he said was 'Congratulations to Barnsley.'

We have moved on from this gritty, muck of nettles club that Warnock and Bassett actually embraced to a progressive, expansive side and a club on the up massively. The media love us. Lets not be that set of fans that says everyone is against us, look at VAR (the flip side is refs gave us lots of decisions and some they should not!) tables and the ghost goal. Let's be better than that. To open up twitter and see tweets by our fans about this every day is now a bit cringeworthy. Hawkeye are not going to respond. They ballsed up but wont say what really happened. I get it. Not sure what these fans expect to happen now - do they really think Hawkeye are going to come out and say anything now?

I might be on my own here I know and get criticised for much of above but I do feel we need to focus on what has been a fantastic season for the club and move on from this. Not sure what choice we have. Let us focus on the good - I am a negative Blade by nature so for - and I think we have been amazing this year and need to shout this from the rooftops not be going on and on about this incident now.

 

[Beans]

11 points from 30, but it was 10 games in a compressed period. We'll hopefully never play that many games that quickly again in the league. We had 2 days off between some games.

If it was a normal season and we'd dropped off a bit, then maybe I'd be more worried, but you can't really draw many useful conclusions from this restart period, rough ideas of what you need but not much else - sort of like when all the F1 practice sessions and qualifying are wet and the race is dry.

It's actually 11 points from our last 27 (we've played 9 league games 1 cup game). Pro-rates to 46 points over a full season. If you actually did want to look at the last 10 league games then it's 14 points from 10 which pro-rates to 53 which is basically what we're going to finish this season with.

There is absolutely nothing in our short or long-term form that worries me for next season. 11 points from a run in which we played the teams in 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th and 11th (and 13th and 17th) is really good! We took 29 points in the first 19 games of the season and at worst we'll take 25 from the second half (worth noting we played City twice in our last 19 games).

 

[Swannyblade]

It's actually 11 points from our last 27 (we've played 9 league games 1 cup game). Pro-rates to 46 points over a full season. If you actually did want to look at the last 10 league games then it's 14 points from 10 which pro-rates to 53 which is basically what we're going to finish this season with.

There is absolutely nothing in our short or long-term form that worries me for next season. 11 points from a run in which we played the teams in 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th and 11th (and 13th and 17th) is really good! We took 29 points in the first 19 games of the season and at worst we'll take 25 from the second half (worth noting we played City twice in our last 19 games).

I think it's the distribution of the results that make them appear more concerning than they should. If the three wins we've picked up since the restart were scattered between the more disappointing results, I doubt any of us would be feeling disappointed or concerned. The quick turn around between games hasn't helped either - we've had 3 months of games squeezed into a concentrated period. The initial disappointment from a poor performance or defeat usually dissipates after a week or two but with only a few days between games, it seems to have produced more extreme reactions in the fanbase (both negative and positive).
I'm not overly concerned for next year. If we keep the back three intact, I'll always fancy us to be in with a chance of picking up enough results over the course of a season.

 

[Swannyblade]

Massive tin hat on post.....

Interesting seen loads of Blades sending out tweets and trying to get Watford or Bournemouth fans involved. Nearly all have not been arsed. Most just said we (Watford/Bournemouth) have been crap. Lots of Villa fans citing a perfectly good goal v Palace and comparing it (not sure quite the same) saying it's swings and roundabouts.

Was interesting though that all the talk Blades fans have of legal action and not seen anyone hardly from those other clubs say that they would want to go down that route. All the tweets seem to be from Blades? It's a bit bizarre.

Not sure it would happen (court case) or they would even have a case?

Then what happens so Villa put a counter claim in for there goal v Palace? Then others do the same etc, etc.. As Foody said we would have court cases every season for mistakes (VAR/Referee/Hawkeye)

I just thought it was interesting that only our fans seem to be so desperate for this to go further - the fans of teams that might now be really affected don't even seem to have given it a second thought?

It annoyed and angered me at the time (I wrote a letter!) but lets not be that club/supporters who go on and on about something. It does not sit with me well - this victim mentality that a lot of Sheffield United fans often seem to talk about quite a lot. It goes back to the Tevez thing (yes that was wrong) IThe hawkeye explanation was wrong - it should have been a goal - Hawkeye lied. You know what over the years - so have refs. So have VAR officials. So have Premier League officials. It happens. We aren't going to change it now. Other football clubs have been wronged for things over the years. To listen to some fans you would think they genuinely think everyone is out to get us and always will. Do people genuinelly think that people high up make these decisions as they really want to screw us over? Seriously. Maybe a few due to Mr Warnock may have had that thought but now - with a well liked manager, club and set up - most seem to like us. Do people really think they did not switch the hawkeye on as this could lead to Man Utd or Spurs getting Europe ahead of us if a goal went in - it could have happened for a Villa goal. They made a mistake. It was crap. In the end it has not mattered anyway to us. If those other clubs feel it is an avenue they want to explore if they go down - let them - but not sure they will get very far.

Let's show them class and move on or we will just go on and on for months when actually noone outside a percentage of our fans care or are even mentioning it anymore?

Not totally related but loved Paul Cook's interview last night - his team had been relegated in cruel circumstances (due to ownership stuff about his head) and the first thing he said was 'Congratulations to Barnsley.'

We have moved on from this gritty, muck of nettles club that Warnock and Bassett actually embraced to a progressive, expansive side and a club on the up massively. The media love us. Lets not be that set of fans that says everyone is against us, look at VAR (the flip side is refs gave us lots of decisions and some they should not!) tables and the ghost goal. Let's be better than that. To open up twitter and see tweets by our fans about this every day is now a bit cringeworthy. Hawkeye are not going to respond. They ballsed up but wont say what really happened. I get it. Not sure what these fans expect to happen now - do they really think Hawkeye are going to come out and say anything now?

I might be on my own here I know and get criticised for much of above but I do feel we need to focus on what has been a fantastic season for the club and move on from this. Not sure what choice we have. Let us focus on the good - I am a negative Blade by nature so for - and I think we have been amazing this year and need to shout this from the rooftops not be going on and on about this incident now.

I'm not sure about this.
Whilst I'm surprised that Watford and Bournemouth aren't kicking up more of a fuss about this incident, I think it's more down to context than anything else.
If the same incident was to happen again on the final day and a failure of Hawkeye was to prevent a legitimate goal from keeping Watford up, I doubt very much that they would accept relegation without raising the issue. Maybe a game at the beginning of the restart wasn't high on the radar of Watford fans at the time and the potential consequences of it for their chances of survival. I'd be extremely surprised if the club's hierarchy don't investigate taking it further if they are relegated - there's a hell of a lot of money at stake and it would be very negligent of them not to explore their options.
As for us getting involved or raising the issue, I've no issue with it - I actually think it would reflect better on us now that we haven't got much (at least in footballing terms) to gain. It angers me that the authorities think they can release a half-arsed statement (the contents of which I have my suspicions about) and move on from the matter - surely the incident should at least be investigated further to prevent a repeat of any similar incident occurring - the goal line system has been sold to us fans and clubs as being foolproof.
I'm sure there are others better positioned who should be holding the Premier League and Hawkeye to account, but so far no one else has stepped up.

 

[blade67]

Tech or no tech involved, it's a shit decision. Refs make them every game. Time to move on

 

[Deadbat]

I'm not sure about this.
Whilst I'm surprised that Watford and Bournemouth aren't kicking up more of a fuss about this incident, I think it's more down to context than anything else.
If the same incident was to happen again on the final day and a failure of Hawkeye was to prevent a legitimate goal from keeping Watford up, I doubt very much that they would accept relegation without raising the issue. Maybe a game at the beginning of the restart wasn't high on the radar of Watford fans at the time and the potential consequences of it for their chances of survival. I'd be extremely surprised if the club's hierarchy don't investigate taking it further if they are relegated - there's a hell of a lot of money at stake and it would be very negligent of them not to explore their options.
As for us getting involved or raising the issue, I've no issue with it - I actually think it would reflect better on us now that we haven't got much (at least in footballing terms) to gain. It angers me that the authorities think they can release a half-arsed statement (the contents of which I have my suspicions about) and move on from the matter - surely the incident should at least be investigated further to prevent a repeat of any similar incident occurring - the goal line system has been sold to us fans and clubs as being foolproof.
I'm sure there are others better positioned who should be holding the Premier League and Hawkeye to account, but so far no one else has stepped up.

No-one has stepped up as no-one really cares. Sounds harsh but that is the reality. Most people have forgotten about it and why should they care really - not seen it mentioned in the relegation scrap/coverage at all outside our fans. Just think its odd that we are going on and on about it and the teams it really going to affect don't seem to have batted an eyelid?

I will be shocked if the clubs do take up a claim against it - not even seen any team mention it at all- most seem to suggest it was just a bad decision amongst a number this season and any other season. A court of law is not going to be able to prove what would have happened in that 2nd half either. If this found in favour then there would be court cases happening every few games for bad decisions and football would be ridiculous (could suggest new VAR has made it that anyway!).

As I say time to move on. If other clubs want to take things forward let them but not going to affect us in terms of Europe so we need to focus on what we have done so well this season and plan to keep improving not be bleating about injustices for weeks and months (that was the old Sheffield United mentality - lets be different).

 

[Swannyblade]

No-one has stepped up as no-one really cares. Sounds harsh but that is the reality. Most people have forgotten about it and why should they care really - not seen it mentioned in the relegation scrap/coverage at all outside our fans. Just think its odd that we are going on and on about it and the teams it really going to affect don't seem to have batted an eyelid?

I will be shocked if the clubs do take up a claim against it - not even seen any team mention it at all- most seem to suggest it was just a bad decision amongst a number this season and any other season. A court of law is not going to be able to prove what would have happened in that 2nd half either. If this found in favour then there would be court cases happening every few games for bad decisions and football would be ridiculous (could suggest new VAR has made it that anyway!).

As I say time to move on. If other clubs want to take things forward let them but not going to affect us in terms of Europe so we need to focus on what we have done so well this season and plan to keep improving not be bleating about injustices for weeks and months (that was the old Sheffield United mentality - lets be different).

Do you know what, it's not our battle to fight and it's not even the relegated team I'm concerned about (although I can empathise) - life's not fair, it's full of injustices and football is no different.
What really annoys me is that it's symbolic of a wider issue in society - I'm fed up of those in positions of power feeding us lies and spin and we're just expected to swallow it without question, turn the other cheek and move on. We've had it during Brexit, during the Coronavirus and it's rife in football. I don't believe the statement that was released by Hawkeye about occlusion, I suspect the system wasn't functioning properly or even active. However this won't be investigated or taken any further and that's that.
I'll shut up now because I've strayed off the point and wandered towards politics.
Just fed up of the "sweep it under the carpet" culture and people not being held to account...it's too easy to do when you're not directly affected.

 

[Deadbat]

Do you know what, it's not our battle to fight and it's not even the relegated team I'm concerned about (although I can empathise) - life's not fair, it's full of injustices and football is no different.
What really annoys me is that it's symbolic of a wider issue in society - I'm fed up of those in positions of power feeding us lies and spin and we're just expected to swallow it without question, turn the other cheek and move on. We've had it during Brexit, during the Coronavirus and it's rife in football. I don't believe the statement that was released by Hawkeye about occlusion, I suspect the system wasn't functioning properly or even active. However this won't be investigated or taken any further and that's that.
I'll shut up now because I've strayed off the point and wandered towards politics.
Just fed up of the "sweep it under the carpet" culture and people not being held to account...it's too easy to do when you're not directly affected.

I agree with the theme of your post actually but like with the Govt etc - what can we really do about it? Maybe we need to challenge more things but I am not sure we can control the lies of Mr Cummings/the Govt or Hawkeye. I would rather focus on controlling what we can do. Whether that be in life (Cummings was a moron - does not mean we have to follow his lead) or football (should have been a goal - it was not; lets just focus as a team what we can do - sadly we did not do that. Been nice if we had come out 2nd half fired up at Villa and won anyway but did even have another shot and followed it up with a rotten performance).

If likes of Cummings/Hawkeye came out and said yes we got that wrong - would it make us feel any better? Maybe but we know deep down they know they f*****d up - them coming out and saying what we all know would be nice I suppose but in the grand scheme of things it wont change anything.

Life will always be full of liars/people doing things we don't like. It's crap but I would rather focus on what I can control than spending so much time looking for answers we will never get. Maybe people would get away with more if there were more people like me though so can see it both ways!

 

[Swannyblade]

I agree with the theme of your post actually but like with the Govt etc - what can we really do about it? Maybe we need to challenge more things but I am not sure we can control the lies of Mr Cummings/the Govt or Hawkeye. I would rather focus on controlling what we can do. Whether that be in life (Cummings was a moron - does not mean we have to follow his lead) or football (should have been a goal - it was not; lets just focus as a team what we can do - sadly we did not do that. Been nice if we had come out 2nd half fired up at Villa and won anyway but did even have another shot and followed it up with a rotten performance).

If likes of Cummings/Hawkeye came out and said yes we got that wrong - would it make us feel any better? Maybe but we know deep down they know they f*****d up - them coming out and saying what we all know would be nice I suppose but in the grand scheme of things it wont change anything.

Life will always be full of liars/people doing things we don't like. It's crap but I would rather focus on what I can control than spending so much time looking for answers we will never get. Maybe people would get away with more if there were more people like me though so can see it both ways!

Completely agree, and maybe there are more worthy injustices in life to devote time and effort to fighting rather than a goal that's now inconsequential from a Blades perspective.
Cummings in the rose garden did conjure up more anger in me than Hawkeye, so I've not lost sight of the bigger picture just yet!

 

[Webding]

They can’t admit they got it wrong for so many reasons; the main one being it’s probably down to a system bug that shows it’s not foolproof, opening a massive can of worms about every close call it has (or hasn’t) ever made a decision on. There’d be McCabes everywhere.

Either way, it’s time to let it go. It was time about five weeks ago to be fair.