VAR

[grafikhaus]

But surely, it’s the handball rule that needs changing, that’s what made the ridiculous VAR ruling yesterday technically correct?

Wouldn't that add to the shambolic situation that already exists? The VAR 'judges' - who've plainly never played the game at any level and seem intent on 'stamping their own authority' on a game - wouldn't be able to judge what is and isn't 'deliberate handball'. Surely better left to the on-field officials stood very near by?

They're taking a simple game and over-complicating things. Like the 'review' system in cricket (a far easier thing to decide than the myriad things that go off all over a football pitch), they continue to get it wrong (Stoke's 'boundary in the WC final). They like to pretend that they can predict what happens to a bowler's ball after it hits the pitch. Try that with a Shane Warne delivery...

If the goal hadn't stood, would it have been a penalty? It must have been! It could only be one or the other if it was handball in the penalty area.

Nope, the ball was 'handled' by an attacking player (City's Laporte) before City 'scored'.

(Thankfully I'm not a ref!)

Me too!

 

[Hamburg Blade]

If the goal hadn't stood, would it have been a penalty? It must have been!

A free-kick to Spurs, surely?

 

[steve26272]

If the goal hadn't stood, would it have been a penalty? It must have been! It could only be one or the other if it was handball in the penalty area. Now here's the thing I really hate about VAR - it is taking discretion away from referees. Yes, the handball rule says one thing - but it's up to the referee to interpret whether an infringement of the rules actually gave either team an advantage - and in this case I do not think there is any strong evidence that it did.

As to the point about us being disadvantaged because of who we are - I really think that's fanciful thinking and victim mentality. Yes there have been times when that's happened (first match of the season v Liverpool is a timely reminder). But we are no more advantaged or disadvantaged than anyone else by it.

Back to my original position on this: If we are going to use VAR (and obviously we are) then it should be used as "additional information" to help match officials decide the fairest way to rule on key incidents. It's not being applied like that. The Man City thing yesterday was all the proof you need. VAR showed it slightly brushed the guys arm whilst his arm was sticking out in a backwards direction. My decision on that: Technically handball under the stupid new rule, but no advantage gained, goal should stand.

(Thankfully I'm not a ref!)

Don’t disagree on all that, but is the theory that big teams get the big decisions really fanciful? Time will tell.....

The only point I would question tho is as you say “taking discretion away from refs” - is this a bad thing?!
Problem been you could have identical situations on the same day at 2 matches and 2 refs view it differently, creating a hard done by feeling in one of the camps.
Last week Wolves had a goal ruled out for a similar “handball” to yesterday. Whilst we may debate the intricacies of whether an advantage was gained, at least we have consistency.

For years all I have wanted from refs is 2 things, they should be interviewed post match to explain certain decisions, not a kangaroo court, but an opportunity to explain it as they saw it, we may not agree but at least we could try to understand.
And consistency. - how many times do we see who’s reffing and think we’re in for a torrid afternoon, well at least now the big decisions will be out of their hands, not all bad.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Don’t disagree on all that, but is the theory that big teams get the big decisions really fanciful? Time will tell.....

The only point I would question tho is as you say “taking discretion away from refs” - is this a bad thing?!
Problem been you could have identical situations on the same day at 2 matches and 2 refs view it differently, creating a hard done by feeling in one of the camps.
Last week Wolves had a goal ruled out for a similar “handball” to yesterday. Whilst we may debate the intricacies of whether an advantage was gained, at least we have consistency.

For years all I have wanted from refs is 2 things, they should be interviewed post match to explain certain decisions, not a kangaroo court, but an opportunity to explain it as they saw it, we may not agree but at least we could try to understand.
And consistency. - how many times do we see who’s reffing and think we’re in for a torrid afternoon, well at least now the big decisions will be out of their hands, not all bad.

Discretion from the referees is part of the game and how the game's developed. All VAR really does is pass discretion from the on-field ref to a ref with a screen and slo-mo.

 

[steve26272]

Discretion from the referees is part of the game and how the game's developed. All VAR really does is pass discretion from the on-field ref to a ref with a screen and slo-mo.

True, but surely a ref with slo-mo, several angles and without intimidation from surrounding players and a baying crowd is likely to get more decisions correct?

If we had a shout for a last minute penalty at Etihad I would prefer VAR to make the call than Michael Oliver with the likes of Aguero, Ederson & Otimendi snarling in his face to intimidate his decision

 

[Eddiecolquhounsleg]

You have to remember that the rule for deliberate hand ball still applies to the defender, so if it had brushed his arm accidentally that would not have resulted in a penalty. The accidental hand ball rule only applies to an attacker if that hand ball results in a goal, or a goal scoring opportunity. Confused, you will be.

 

[boss hog]

It's a real excitement killer ,I hate it and would rather have mistakes than this sanitized shite.

 

[gordoncharles]

The VAR 'judges' - who've plainly never played the game at any level...

Man alive, grafikhaus, please don't use that go-to "argument" of every gobshite ex-pro pundit who thinks their ramblings are more perceptive than the rest of us, because none of us have played the game to any significant level either and we still think we know what we're talking about.

I agree with you about the farce that is VAR, of course, and maybe - one day in some happy la-la land - it will be perfected so even I can't disagree but let's take it as it is right now. They all wanted it, the Peps and Jurgens, the Linekers and Shearers, and it's going to fuck football up as a spectacle. Revise that, it already has.

The utterly false emphasis on tiny margins for offside I can't accept and today Jonathan Walters (I think) on Sky made the excellent point that the alleged handball that denied Man City a win (and denied Wolves last week), had it been made by a defender would not have been called a penalty.

It's no use others blaming the rules, the rules have been amended BECAUSE of VAR.

And we, and the likes of us, will not benefit from it, of that we can be completely sure.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

True, but surely a ref with slo-mo, several angles and without intimidation from surrounding players and a baying crowd is likely to get more decisions correct?

If we had a shout for a last minute penalty at Etihad I would prefer VAR to make the call than Michael Oliver with the likes of Aguero, Ederson & Otimendi snarling in his face to intimidate his decision

I'm not talking about the increased information and detail available to the VAR ref compared to the on-field ref, I'm just pointing out that it is not taking away discretion, which is what you said. The discretion is still there, in exactly the same way. It's just the level of information available to apply that discretion which has changed.
Perhaps what you meant is, it's taking away the guess work?

 

[steve26272]

I'm not talking about the increased information and detail available to the VAR ref compared to the on-field ref, I'm just pointing out that it is not taking away discretion, which is what you said. The discretion is still there, in exactly the same way. It's just the level of information available to apply that discretion which has changed.
Perhaps what you meant is, it's taking away the guess work?

Discretion, guess work, opinion, interpretation........
The point been it should result in the correct decision been made more frequently

Let’s hope it helps us out in the next 2hrs.........
UTB!!

 

[grafikhaus]

I agree with you about the farce that is VAR, of course, and maybe - one day in some happy la-la land - it will be perfected so even I can't disagree but let's take it as it is right now. They all wanted it, the Peps and Jurgens, the Linekers and Shearers, and it's going to fuck football up as a spectacle. Revise that, it already has.

The utterly false emphasis on tiny margins for offside I can't accept and today Jonathan Walters (I think) on Sky made the excellent point that the alleged handball that denied Man City a win (and denied Wolves last week), had it been made by a defender would not have been called a penalty.

It's no use others blaming the rules, the rules have been amended BECAUSE of VAR.

And we, and the likes of us, will not benefit from it, of that we can be completely sure.

Well, anybody who has been today will have seen how VAR - and the stupid new rules -are fucking up football. I don't think there was a single incident referred to VAR in a game that could have had several. When McBurnie was near decapitated the ref. was 'Nothing to see here. Move on.' As VAR didn't get involved in a clear foul/possible red card will have made the ref. think he got the decision right. Did he fuck.

Not only that, ridiculous new rules - especially the one about a team hitting the ball against the ref. and the other side gets a free-kick are just ridiculous. Who thinks this shit up?

We've done more than well to win today. We were up against cheats like Zaha, an incredibly poor ref and a couple of spineless 'assistants'. Seven extra minutes FFS!

 

[ZoneManWilf]

Well, anybody who has been today will have seen how VAR - and the stupid new rules -are fucking up football. I don't think there was a single incident referred to VAR in a game that could have had several. When McBurnie was near decapitated the ref. was 'Nothing to see here. Move on.' As VAR didn't get involved in a clear foul/possible red card will have made the ref. think he got the decision right. Did he fuck.

Not only that, ridiculous new rules - especially the one about a team hitting the ball against the ref. and the other side gets a free-kick are just ridiculous. Who thinks this shit up?

We've done more than well to win today. We were up against cheats like Zaha, an incredibly poor ref and a couple of spineless 'assistants'. Seven extra minutes FFS!

Agree with all that apart from the injury time. I predicted 6 or 7 due to the longish injury delays.

 

[robbiez666]

Well, anybody who has been today will have seen how VAR - and the stupid new rules -are fucking up football. I don't think there was a single incident referred to VAR in a game that could have had several. When McBurnie was near decapitated the ref. was 'Nothing to see here. Move on.' As VAR didn't get involved in a clear foul/possible red card will have made the ref. think he got the decision right. Did he fuck.

Not only that, ridiculous new rules - especially the one about a team hitting the ball against the ref. and the other side gets a free-kick are just ridiculous. Who thinks this shit up?

We've done more than well to win today. We were up against cheats like Zaha, an incredibly poor ref and a couple of spineless 'assistants'. Seven extra minutes FFS!

There were also several potential handballs in the box but did WAR look at any of them?

In all fairness I was surprised it wasn't more than 7 minutes the amount of ridiculously obvious time-wasting we were doing.

Camera panned to Wilder when the board went up and he was not at all surprised.

 

[Brian Deane]

I think we learnt something from Norwich last season. Half expected the chant of "Take your time SUFC doing it the Norwich way" after 85 mins

 

[grafikhaus]

There were also several potential handballs in the box but did WAR look at any of them?

In all fairness I was surprised it wasn't more than 7 minutes the amount of ridiculously obvious time-wasting we were doing.

Camera panned to Wilder when the board went up and he was not at all surprised.

WAR. What is it good for?

Looked like handball to us in their area early on. I'll wait for MoTD to hear Danny Murphy say 'I've seen them given.' Zaha getting in Wilder's face? No action.
Dangerous kicking? Nah.



Freeman fouls Ward, Ward grabs Freeman by the throat. Obviously a booking for just Freeman. And so it went on...all afternoon.

 

[Bladesman]

Not sure if anyone has noticed but we are playing against 12 men in the last two matches. 11 men and the ref.

I don't expect it to be any different from here on. Fraser should have walked last week for the stamp on Norwood.

 

[true99blade]

I didn’t get a clear view but many were adamant of a potential handball in their box in the first half. There was a surprising lack of VAR checks.

 

[bromtom]

I've just had a look and Sky said the Stevens volley into the defenders went to VAR review.

The new ref getting in the way rule is daft.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

There were also several potential handballs in the box but did WAR look at any of them?

Yes, all of them.

 

[bartman]

Thought ref was ok. What did he do wrong ?

 

[bartman]

I didn’t get a clear view but many were adamant of a potential handball in their box in the first half. There was a surprising lack of VAR checks.

VAR checks them all. The one in the first half defo wasnt a penalty

 

[true99blade]

VAR checks them all. The one in the first half defo wasnt a penalty

Fair enough.

 

[CopenhagenBlade]

Thought ref was ok. What did he do wrong ?

Agree, thought he did ok

 

[TAMUS]

I can see Var favouring the BigBoys more than ever , after today .

 

[Sharp as a blade]

Gotta say, unpopular opinion it might be, but the Man City VAR incident was correct and rightly disallowed in my opinion.

He misses the header, the ball flicks off his hand and changes direction. It was going straight to Ndombele to clear before his arm deflects it onto Jesus.

Had that goal stood they have clearly gained an advantage through the ball hitting the arm. If the ball hit his arm and went straight in the net should that have stood?

 

[bromtom]

I can see Var favouring the BigBoys more than ever , after today .

How? Nothing VAR looked at today was a bad decision?

Also big boys already losing out to it.

 

[Niceguyeddie]

VAR checks them all. The one in the first half defo wasnt a penalty

If it touches his arm its a penalty now according to the rules
At least it was yesterday

 

[steve26272]

I can see Var favouring the BigBoys more than ever , after today .

Expand please?
Man C. Dropped 2 points yesterday to a VAR call, so not sure how you came to that opinion?

I think it will actually help balance back towards the smaller teams. If you look at the ref yesterday he was jusy pointing to his ear explaining it’s a var decision. And those decisions are made by a ref miles away without any intimidation from the big boys.
Would have loved it when the likes of Roy Keane or John Terry used to get in the face of the ref, even they can’t put pressure on a bloke 100 mile away

 

[bartman]

If it touches his arm its a penalty now according to the rules
At least it was yesterday

Nope. That iant the rule

 

[Punk Blade]

Thought ref was ok. What did he do wrong ?

View attachment 60004

He thought this was legal.