VAR killing the game

[Bruce Wayne]

I like the concept of a pancea but our version is like Boris's Brexit paln. Flawed. It's a waste of space so either use it properely or scrap it.

 

[FMBlade1]

I'd much prefer the review system like that is used in cricket and tennis. We can review two decisions (of any type) per game from the manager/captain only after the ball is dead with 10 seconds to decide.

However sadly that door has already bolted so we have to live with what we have like it or not

 

[metalblade]

Just watch MOTD we had a penalty shout that was pretty much nailed on how did VAR not spot it ???
As an asides how can it be hand ball if an attacker does it but not handball when a defender does it???? These so called pundits do come out with some shite.

 

[Rodders]

As an asides how can it be hand ball if an attacker does it but not handball when a defender does it???? These so called pundits do come out with some shite.

That’s what VAR will do; every goal is checked and it will automatically disallow a goal scored if it comes off an attacker’s hand during the build up. It will not automatically give a penalty or penalise a defence if the defender handballs it.
Maybe the pundits know more than you?

 

[TaipeiBlade]

VAR is a nice idea, used badly.

It's so inconsistent. So, if an attacking play handballs, even accidentally, it's given. But if a defender handballs it, there's no penalty? That doesn't seem right.

Plus there's some twaddle that it's only given if the ref has made a mistake (I've seen that mentioned a few times when VAR wasn't used or didn't give something) but if the ref has missed something (Like Egan been fouled vs Leicester) then surely that's a mistake and should be corrected?

 

[Berlin Blade]

It’s absolutely awful. ‘The game’s gone’ is such an overused phrase but with VAR I genuinely think it will be. In 10 years we’ll look back on football and say ‘remember when it was good?’

A ‘goal’ will eventually be celebrated more like a penalty being given and scored. A muted ‘yessss’ when it goes in and it’s almost a formulaic ‘yess’ when the man in the shed behind the net confirming it. A goal going in without the euphoria of an actual goal, if you will. You aren’t going to get players knee sliding and throwing their shirt into the crowd once the ‘VAR CHECKING DECISION’ screen goes green.

There are (the vast majority of decisions) that are completely subject to interpretation. The answer isn’t ‘go to another referee with another interpretation’.

The refs do a usually fantastic job and always have. The people who can’t take 5 or 6 wrong decisions going against them a season have thrown their toys out the pram and have taken the game with it.

Don’t mistake this as ‘for the greater good for the fans’, this isn’t for the fans. This is for SkySportsTV. Reality football TV. No regard for the season ticket holders in the ground, it’s for more drama on tv and the people that have only followed the game on tv are lapping it up looking at 40,000 replays in HD while the fans in the ground are trying to get 4G to see what’s happening. There’s a reason that it’s not in the championship or league one or two, because the tv demand isn’t there for those games. They matter less.

Did anyone see Neves’s goal against Man Utd this season? Absolute screamer. The roof came off the stadium. Then everything stopped because VAR was looking for any excuse to disallow the goal. The wolves gaffer even said after the game ‘I’m seriously afraid we aren’t going to be able to celebrate goals any more. It’s a huge shame’. Ronaldo even didn’t celebrate his goal recently for Juve and told the fans to ‘calm down’ while running away in protest at VAR. that’s probably the most decorated player ever to put boots on against it. And juve have had their fair share of gifts from VAR in the last 2 years.

Another thing is that the referee or VAR official uses their own discretion to determine how far back to go in the build up to a goal to see what’s relevant to the build up. If the left back swears under his breath at the ref in the build up to a goal 90 seconds before a goal has been scored, if the ball hasn’t gone out of play, that’s dissent and a foul. Basically, it’s still down to interpretation. If a ref wants to disallow a goal, he can for that. ‘We want more correct decisions’ well that would be a correct decision. I know that’s an extreme example but where do you draw the line?

We are also limited by technology. A video is only still images at a very high rate per second put together to form a video. The cameras aren’t THAT fast that they can keep up with everything. Things will be missed. Remember the handball for City’s goal against Spurs? If that had hit his hand 0.001 seconds before or after, it wouldn’t have been picked up. Is that not a foul then? There are so many grey areas.

Before anyone says I am bias due to United being stitched up today, I would genuinely take relegation for united if it meant VAR was scrapped forever. We can rebuild. Football can’t. Everyone reading this has, I assume, loved football all their lives. Why the fuck are we changing football so drastically for no tangible benefit? I’ve heard people say ‘I’m pro VAR, if it means the RIGHT decision then I don’t care, make as many changes as you like’ but count me out of that. I’d rather have twice as many mistakes and keep the euphoria of Bashams goal against Leeds or brownys volley against the pigs ANY DAY. Plus, VAR has already admitted they have made 4 mistakes on disallowed goals so far this season. And that’s just what they’ve admitted to, and they’re very bias towards VAR. Basically, more cameras won’t solve interpretation decisions.

Please, please, please, stop this fucking shit. Not to sit on the fence or anything: I’m not a fan.

 

[grafikhaus]

VAR is a nice idea, used badly.

It's so inconsistent. So, if an attacking play handballs, even accidentally, it's given. But if a defender handballs it, there's no penalty? That doesn't seem right.

Plus there's some twaddle that it's only given if the ref has made a mistake (I've seen that mentioned a few times when VAR wasn't used or didn't give something) but if the ref has missed something (Like Egan been fouled vs Leicester) then surely that's a mistake and should be corrected?

I'm not sure it's even a 'nice' idea. Refs have been inconsistent since the game began - VAR justs adds another layer of inconsistency and covers up for the officials' incompetence. That ref. yesterday was a case in point. S'oton should have had two yellows awarded against them but both times just the free-kick was given. Then - feeling that he had to do something - he booked Vestergaard for a clumsy challenge to 'even things up'.

His displays of 'being in charge' extended to two free kicks at the Bramall Lane end. One in the first half looked to be a foul against the Saints and probably a yellow. This fussy twat seemed to be reaching for his yellow card but no. It was for his 'spray' (in a position where a shot would have been near impossible) which he ostentatiously used to 'make sure the wall was back the right distance', then the wall retreated no more than 8 yards.

You're right about it only being handball if an attacker handles it. That's like the review system in cricket only applying to the bowler and not the batsman.

It’s absolutely awful. ‘The game’s gone’ is such an overused phrase but with VAR I genuinely think it will be. In 10 years we’ll look back on football and say ‘remember when it was good?’

A ‘goal’ will eventually be celebrated more like a penalty being given and scored. A muted ‘yessss’ when it goes in and it’s almost a formulaic ‘yess’ when the man in the shed behind the net confirming it. A goal going in without the euphoria of an actual goal, if you will. You aren’t going to get players knee sliding and throwing their shirt into the crowd once the ‘VAR CHECKING DECISION’ screen goes green.

Totally agree. One of the points of attending a game is the 'immediacy' of celebrating a goal. With VAR, you might as well watch it in the pub, your team 'scores' and you go for a slash before returning to see if it actually was a goal.

 

[SwissBlade]

I never minded a bit of controversy over decisions, especially if it benefits us. Its the way the game is run off the field that i don't like

 

[A Storm of Blades]

It’s absolutely awful. ‘The game’s gone’ is such an overused phrase but with VAR I genuinely think it will be. In 10 years we’ll look back on football and say ‘remember when it was good?’

A ‘goal’ will eventually be celebrated more like a penalty being given and scored. A muted ‘yessss’ when it goes in and it’s almost a formulaic ‘yess’ when the man in the shed behind the net confirming it. A goal going in without the euphoria of an actual goal, if you will. You aren’t going to get players knee sliding and throwing their shirt into the crowd once the ‘VAR CHECKING DECISION’ screen goes green.

There are (the vast majority of decisions) that are completely subject to interpretation. The answer isn’t ‘go to another referee with another interpretation’.

The refs do a usually fantastic job and always have. The people who can’t take 5 or 6 wrong decisions going against them a season have thrown their toys out the pram and have taken the game with it.

Don’t mistake this as ‘for the greater good for the fans’, this isn’t for the fans. This is for SkySportsTV. Reality football TV. No regard for the season ticket holders in the ground, it’s for more drama on tv and the people that have only followed the game on tv are lapping it up looking at 40,000 replays in HD while the fans in the ground are trying to get 4G to see what’s happening. There’s a reason that it’s not in the championship or league one or two, because the tv demand isn’t there for those games. They matter less.

Did anyone see Neves’s goal against Man Utd this season? Absolute screamer. The roof came off the stadium. Then everything stopped because VAR was looking for any excuse to disallow the goal. The wolves gaffer even said after the game ‘I’m seriously afraid we aren’t going to be able to celebrate goals any more. It’s a huge shame’. Ronaldo even didn’t celebrate his goal recently for Juve and told the fans to ‘calm down’ while running away in protest at VAR. that’s probably the most decorated player ever to put boots on against it. And juve have had their fair share of gifts from VAR in the last 2 years.

Another thing is that the referee or VAR official uses their own discretion to determine how far back to go in the build up to a goal to see what’s relevant to the build up. If the left back swears under his breath at the ref in the build up to a goal 90 seconds before a goal has been scored, if the ball hasn’t gone out of play, that’s dissent and a foul. Basically, it’s still down to interpretation. If a ref wants to disallow a goal, he can for that. ‘We want more correct decisions’ well that would be a correct decision. I know that’s an extreme example but where do you draw the line?

We are also limited by technology. A video is only still images at a very high rate per second put together to form a video. The cameras aren’t THAT fast that they can keep up with everything. Things will be missed. Remember the handball for City’s goal against Spurs? If that had hit his hand 0.001 seconds before or after, it wouldn’t have been picked up. Is that not a foul then? There are so many grey areas.

Before anyone says I am bias due to United being stitched up today, I would genuinely take relegation for united if it meant VAR was scrapped forever. We can rebuild. Football can’t. Everyone reading this has, I assume, loved football all their lives. Why the fuck are we changing football so drastically for no tangible benefit? I’ve heard people say ‘I’m pro VAR, if it means the RIGHT decision then I don’t care, make as many changes as you like’ but count me out of that. I’d rather have twice as many mistakes and keep the euphoria of Bashams goal against Leeds or brownys volley against the pigs ANY DAY. Plus, VAR has already admitted they have made 4 mistakes on disallowed goals so far this season. And that’s just what they’ve admitted to, and they’re very bias towards VAR. Basically, more cameras won’t solve interpretation decisions.

Please, please, please, stop this fucking shit. Not to sit on the fence or anything: I’m not a fan.

I agree with much of that. Frustratingly, it could be an easy fix. Make it a review system. It brings an additional tactical element to the game. Look at the ashes yesterday, Australia wasting their reviews, letting Denly off the hook. Don’t have this ever-present, ever-watching, party-pooping omnipresence, ready at a moments notice to shit on everyone’s chips. And why can’t we be shown what the VAR is seeing?

 

[grafikhaus]

I never minded a bit of controversy over decisions, especially if it benefits us. Its the way the game is run off the field that i don't like.

I agree with much of that. Frustratingly, it could be an easy fix. Make it a review system. It brings an additional tactical element to the game. Look at the ashes yesterday, Australia wasting their reviews, letting Denly off the hook. Don’t have this ever-present, ever-watching, party-pooping omnipresence, ready at a moments notice to shit on everyone’s chips. And why can’t we be shown what the VAR is seeing?

The lino for our 'goal' yesterday never raised his flag. VAR has seized control of what's happening on the field and it's all a step too far. Goalline technology has been hailed as a success but those 'did the ball cross the line?' are one in a million whereas game-changing incidents are happening all the time since VAR came in.

No doubt the studio pundits will say 'it all evens itself out', but it doesn't.

 

[Berlin Blade]

It’s just another tool for the ‘bigger clubs’ to exercise bias over the others. It was literally brought in to do the opposite. Now, if you score at Man Utd away, there will be a million cameras to try to find any small example of borderline rule breaking to disallow the goal. It was brought in to eradicate that but has furthered it. Basically, if you have big club bias, you now have a million extra tools to exercise that bias.

FIFA have brought this in. They have also brought in a winter World Cup in Qatar in which around 4,000 slaves have died building the stadiums and where you can’t drink at any games or in the country, or be gay without being arrested and potentially sentenced to death. I don’t think their decision making should really be held up as a beacon of light in this world to be honest.

 

[TaipeiBlade]

I'm not sure it's even a 'nice' idea. Refs have been inconsistent since the game began - VAR justs adds another layer of inconsistency and covers up for the officials' incompetence.

I like the idea of it because, in theory, it should stop big teams from having the advantage that they always have in the past. Because let's face it, for years, the big teams got decisions that the smaller teams wouldn't... whether it be penalties, offside goals etc. Look at our season under Warnock, I can't remember any decisions we got that shouldn't, but there were a number of bad calls that went against us.

I expected VAR would put a stop to that and level the playing field, but instead, predictably, it's inconsistent, badly used and shit. I can totally see the opposite been true, goals against the big teams been studied more than a murder case whereas goals against the smaller teams get a mere passing glance.

 

[SwissBlade]

The lino for our 'goal' yesterday never raised his flag. VAR has seized control of what's happening on the field and it's all a step too far. Goalline technology has been hailed as a success but those 'did the ball cross the line?' are one in a million whereas game-changing incidents are happening all the time since VAR came in.

No doubt the studio pundits will say 'it all evens itself out', but it doesn't.

Joking aside, you're right. It doesn't seem to go far enough, yet the officials on the field are almost relieved of their duties.

I don't know who makes the decision to review a piece of play. Its clear that all goals are reviewed. But Lee Mason was interesting - he didn't refer to VAR when the ball hit their players arm in the box, however, when i watched the Man City game, a similar hand ball with Stones defending in the box did get referred and it was deemed to be no pen. Lee Mason also gave Billy a straight red, commentators on the game suggested it was reviewed by VAR, but no info on that decision...

Last home game i was getting notifications on sky sports when a piece of play had been reviewed by VAR the other week, i think John Fleck was involved last game, but yesterday it was just the McB goal which was reviewed officially. Does that mean that the VAR decisions aren't being communicated or the commentators are talking shite.

None of it is very clear

 

[TaipeiBlade]

Just watched MotD.

How the fuck was the penalty Liverpool should have had not given? VAR is toss if its not gonna be used consistently.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

You’re right. Nobody seems to have a clue what’s going on. We were worried the game would be too start/stop, but this opaque, in the background reviewing is much worse. Now, when there’s a clear handball or penalty which isn’t given, its more frustrating because we don’t know to what extent it’s been looked at or what angle was shown. And it’s leading to a further sense of injustice because it removes the excuse that the ref didn’t see it.

 

[RMBlade]

I think the biggest problem is that referees are relying on VAR. They don’t referee like they did before VAR was brought in. They seem to consistently shy away from giving big decisions because they can fall back on VAR.

VAR don’t want to re-ref games and where possible for subjective decisions will not go against the referee, which then leads to blatant errors like the handball today.

I would just use VAR for binary decisions. Offside is either on or off, nothing in between. Mistaken identity for example the Gibbs/oxlade chamberlain mistake years ago.

You either send the ref over to the screen for subjective decisions like they do in every other competition or don’t use VAR for them.

 

[grafikhaus]

Just watched MotD.

How the fuck was the penalty Liverpool should have had not given? VAR is toss if its not gonna be used consistently.

It's created more problems than it's solved. Scrap it.

 

[Blade82]

The whole concept of VAR seems to be to rule out goals. It rarely goes the other way.

With less goals in the game the ‘brand’ suffers, TV broadcasters will also have their say and I’m sure it will be relaxed in future maybe with a review system in place.

It will be interesting to see the goals tally in the next few season compared to previous seasons pre-VAR

 

[him behind you]

I'd much prefer the review system like that is used in cricket and tennis. We can review two decisions (of any type) per game from the manager/captain only after the ball is dead with 10 seconds to decide.

However sadly that door has already bolted so we have to live with what we have like it or not

Agree completely with this and would add more from the cricket process in that if it is borderline, leave it with the original decision. If a referee or linesman is shown to be getting too many wrong, get rid of them.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Why don’t the crowd get to know the basis of the VAR decision. When the ref or lino make a decision it usually indicated visually for the crowds benefit.

 

[grafikhaus]

Chris Wilder's take:

'I don't think they can get it wrong': Sheffield United boss Chris Wilder hits out at VAR after his side were denied penalty in defeat by Southampton

• Sheffield United boss Chris Wilder criticised VAR after controversial decision
• Wilder felt a penalty should have been given against James Ward-Prowse
• Southampton boss Ralph Hasenhuttl argued: 'VAR makes the game more fair'
• Southampton won 1-0 courtesy of a superb strike from Moussa Djenepo

Another controversial VAR decision left Sheffield United boss Chris Wilder seething after his side were denied a penalty in their 1-0 home defeat to Southampton.

The Premier League new boys — trailing to a Moussa Djenepo wonder strike — felt they should have had a spot-kick in the 75th minute when James Ward-Prowse appeared to handle a cross with an outstretched arm in the area.

Referee Lee Mason checked with Stockley Park but instead gave a corner to the home side. And Wilder became the latest manager to feel wronged. 'It's a penalty,' he said.

'If you look, there's two or three of our boys waiting to tap it in. I don't think they can get it wrong. The hand was out there.'

Last week referees' chief Mike Riley told a Premier League meeting that the replay system, introduced this season, had already made four incorrect decisions.

And the frustrated Blades boss referenced that meeting while criticising what had happened. 'Maybe in four weeks' time someone will come out and say it's a mistake,' he said. 'You expect with all the talk and the debate it's a pretty easy one to pick up. I don't know why they had that meeting then, eh?'

He was also not holding his breath for a rational explanation. 'We'll get something back during the week that will make me feel better,' he added. 'I don't think so.'

Victorious Saints boss Ralph Hasenhuttl, had a different view.

'It [VAR] makes the game more fair,' he said. 'Maybe we were the team that were lucky but I think it should make the game more fair and I think it did that.'

 

[Punk Blade]

So, if an attacking play handballs, even accidentally, it's given. But if a defender handballs it, there's no penalty? That doesn't seem right.

The change in the handball rule is any touch of the hand/arm to the ball by an attacker leading to a goal, handball is given.

Aside from goals the handball rules are the same for everyone attacking/defending, in/out of the box. There are some small tweaks here referencing making your body bigger, which is what the Ward-Prowse handball would have come under.

 

[wizadry]

Just seen the penalty appeal back, how VAR has not given that I’ll never know, he made his body bigger by outstretching his arm and stopped JOC from having a gilt edge chance, it was a stonewaller. You could tell by every players reaction including the saints players that it was a penalty all day long.

 

[Punk Blade]

Think I opted for the wrong VAR thread with this, so I’ll drop it in here too.

The point of VAR is to justify poor refereeing.

They’re reviewing goals, (possible) red cards, (possible) penalties and mistaken identity. In the vast majority of cases the onfield decision stands, so whatever the referee has given (or not given) they’re essentially saying ‘we’ve checked and the decision was good’. The few decisions given by VAR have mostly been offside goals, which are:

• Objectively correct
• Not overturning an onfield decision (assistants are told not to flag tight calls that could lead to a goal)
• Not even the referee’s decision anyway

So anything where the referee makes a poor subjective call in a key incident is just getting backed up in real time, giving the referees a false impression that they’re doing a good job. The referee yesterday was awful, but if VAR had awarded a blatant handball and overturned a harsh red card we would likely have got something out of the game in spite of a dreadful referee. VAR is correcting a very small number of offside decisions but mostly facilitating further decline in refereeing standards.

I would rather no onfield decisions are changed, but VAR assesses everything during the game, and when the balance of wrong decisions goes too far in favour of one team the referee is replaced during the game, does not receive a match fee and is investigated for match fixing.

 

[originaltrueblade]

The problem with VAR is that it is inconsistent just like refereeing is. I was in favour of it BUT it’s beginning to take controversy out of the game but bringing a whole new controversy in that is
More annoying than the previous and unless this is sorted I can see the premier league ditching it after one season

 

[mattbianco1]

Just watch MOTD we had a penalty shout that was pretty much nailed on how did VAR not spot it ???
As an asides how can it be hand ball if an attacker does it but not handball when a defender does it???? These so called pundits do come out with some shite.

That's actually the new rule. If a team scores but it hits an attacking players arm in the build up, it's disallowed whether accidental or not.. wolves v Leicester and Man City v Tottenham both been on receiving end.
Then in the first game of season, Glenn Murray was in a wall inside his own box and handled it as he jumped. VAR checked and deemed it accidental.

It's a joke

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

The lino for our 'goal' yesterday never raised his flag. VAR has seized control of what's happening on the field and it's all a step too far. Goalline technology has been hailed as a success but those 'did the ball cross the line?' are one in a million whereas game-changing incidents are happening all the time since VAR came in.

No doubt the studio pundits will say 'it all evens itself out', but it doesn't.

Southampton didn't even get a VAR review for a push that should have been a penalty.

Why the fuck bother having it? Two pens missed in one match? Perhaps the bloke in the box has his eye on getting the Cup Final as his reward he's that incompetent.

 

[gordoncharles]

The lino for our 'goal' yesterday never raised his flag....

The whole concept of VAR seems to be to rule out goals. It rarely goes the other way.

These two posts are linked.

Because of VAR linesmen are now allowing play to continue on allegedly tight offsides in the hope it will all come out in the wash.

Egan was offside and in the past the linesman would have flagged for that 99 times out of a 100. As it is, we think we've scored, cue false celebrations.

It's telling that even managers, who were in favour of this, are now having second thoughts.

It's merely replacing one level of (over-exaggerated) incompetence with another. I hate it. Plus, whoever said that offsides are "binary". No, they are not.

And it's not even Sky Sports fault either as someone else claimed. FIFA had this first and other leagues introduced it before the PL. Sky Sports are only to blame in the sense that it's them who've got the cameras.

 

[Champagneblade]

Basically VAR owes United 2 points and we aren’t getting them back.

7 points after 5 games with Harvey Barnes’ wonder strike being ruled out due to a blatant foul on Egan.

It’s shit if it’s to be used this way.

With fully used VAR we drew yesterday with a converted pen. Without it at all, we drew through McBurnie’s finish. What we ended up with was some halfway house bullshit which saw us lose 1-0, it contriving to remove the advantage of McBurnie’s finish yet stand idly by and ignore a handball which woud have seen us equalise.
Last time we went down we saw garbage decisions rob us of 4 points according to the youneedspecsref website. Not sure if that is still in operation.

The new and improved version and we’re 2 down already. They must be blind for not calling the foul on Egan.

Either use it fully or fuck it right off.

 

[Grey Blade]

Just watch MOTD we had a penalty shout that was pretty much nailed on how did VAR not spot it ???
As an asides how can it be hand ball if an attacker does it but not handball when a defender does it???? These so called pundits do come out with some shite.

It's created more problems than it's solved. Scrap it.

I think TV coverage is the root cause of the problem. When Match of the day was first broadcast ( in black and white), action replays, as I recall, were shown at normal speed, from one camera position, and it was just an opportunity to have a second look at an incident you wouldn't necessarily have picked up at the first time of viewing.

AS TV coverage became more sophisticated, slow motion replays from multiple camera positions crept in and with the increased use of "expert"analysis by pundits, refereeing decisions were regularly shown to be incorrect.

For several years I thought if slow motion action replays were shown, undermining refereeing decisions, it would be more sensible to use VAR so that referees could be assisted to make correct decisions.

It seems to me that there are now occasions where VAR is actually being used to prevent the undermining of referees authority, and dodgy decisions are being allowed to stand rather than actually correcting them.

Sadly, whilst we have slow motion action replays from multiple angles, VAR is here to stay, but the anomalies must be ironed out asap.