Under 23s V Portsmouth

[larkymasher]

I think its poor on the clubs part. The club want young players to mature into winners. Are you telling me that Slater,Semple, Graham and others are not left a bit deflated that all the hard work they have put in week in and week out up to this point, to get in a position to win something is then thrown away by playing under strength sides in the later stages of cups.
What is it teaching these lads?

Unfortunately what it shows to the 18s, 23s players and i would imagine the coaching staff of these sides that nobody gives a toss whether they win something or not.

I don't accept that McNulty, Scougal, Wilson, Reed, Chapman, Brookes, Hussey, Clarke being involved against Portsmouth Reserves would not be anything other than a good thing for both club and player.
These players don't play enough football for the club at any level..... full stop....... These players are paid to play for our club, lets get them bloody playing then at what ever level the club tells them to and stop covering them in cotton wool !!

 

[BushBlade]

I think its poor on the clubs part. The club want young players to mature into winners. Are you telling me that Slater,Semple, Graham and others are not left a bit deflated that all the hard work they have put in week in and week out up to this point, to get in a position to win something is then thrown away by playing under strength sides in the later stages of cups.
What is it teaching these lads?

Unfortunately what it shows to the 18s, 23s players and i would imagine the coaching staff of these sides that nobody gives a toss whether they win something or not.

I don't accept that McNulty, Scougal, Wilson, Reed, Chapman, Brookes, Hussey, Clarke being involved against Portsmouth Reserves would not be anything other than a good thing for both club and player.
These players don't play enough football for the club at any level..... full stop....... These players are paid to play for our club, lets get them bloody playing then at what ever level the club tells them to and stop covering them in cotton wool !!

Maybe it's teaching them that to be a professional footballer you have to be in the first team. That, in the grand scheme of things, u23s is meaningless. The hard work they put in is to turn them into first team players, not to win kiddies cups. After all, there are players who got to a youth cup final who are now playing in the conference.
And maybe it's teaching them the most important lesson in football - it's a hard game.

 

[larkymasher]

Maybe it's teaching them that to be a professional footballer you have to be in the first team. That, in the grand scheme of things, u23s is meaningless. The hard work they put in is to turn them into first team players, not to win kiddies cups. After all, there are players who got to a youth cup final who are now playing in the conference.
And maybe it's teaching them the most important lesson in football - it's a hard game.

Look at the energy and bravado Chelsea put into winning the FA Youth Cup, and you are telling us its a kiddies cup. For an up and coming player you make your mark with the 18s & 23s. Its far from meaningless.

And didn't we make such a big club effort to get to the FA Youth cup a few years ago? Of course we did and it mattered to the 25k who turned up to watch them.

i think its extremely harsh to assume these lads who some have been at the club since 8 years old don't know exactly how hard the football industry is. Maybe even more than you.
Maybe it shows all the right qualities in our younger players that they are left feeling flat when there is any kind of silverware to be won and we don't try and win it,, kiddies cups or not. Better an attitude like that than one of not giving a shit.

Look on the FA Website in May and see who has won the U23s cup this season. Look at the pictures and the fuss the football clubs, players, Football Association etc puts into the whole thing. Then tell me its meaningless.
Winners like winning anything.

Lastly, winning Cups and competitions at 18s and 23s along with a first team winning leagues and promotion is a fantastic way of showing that our club from youth to first team is the place to be and totally on the up.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

I can only assume that these friendlies are 'soft' games designed to maintain fitness whilst not risking the players by exposing them to proper challenges that might injure them.
CW has looked to minimise risk throughout the season, to take as few gambles as possible, so I guess this is the same again. Why risk a fringe player that we may need to help us over the line?

It's a good theory but it contradicts all we've been told all season about how the players "train as hard as they play".
If they don't do "soft" games in training, I doubt they would suddenly be asked to play in a "soft" friendly.
I'm not sure how much good that would do in keeping them match-ready anyway. Might as well just have a tough training session.

Even if they didn't want to risk the likes of Clarke and Wilson in a competitive match, it's another argument entirely to suddenly take key U23 players like Reed and Brooks out of the competitive U23 setup. Just so they can make up the numbers in a meaningless kickabout.

 

[BushBlade]

Look at the energy and bravado Chelsea put into winning the FA Youth Cup, and you are telling us its a kiddies cup. For an up and coming player you make your mark with the 18s & 23s. Its far from meaningless.

And didn't we make such a big club effort to get to the FA Youth cup a few years ago? Of course we did and it mattered to the 25k who turned up to watch them.

i think its extremely harsh to assume these lads who some have been at the club since 8 years old don't know exactly how hard the football industry is. Maybe even more than you.
Maybe it shows all the right qualities in our younger players that they are left feeling flat when there is any kind of silverware to be won and we don't try and win it,, kiddies cups or not. Better an attitude like that than one of not giving a shit.

Look on the FA Website in May and see who has won the U23s cup this season. Look at the pictures and the fuss the football clubs, players, Football Association etc puts into the whole thing. Then tell me its meaningless.
Winners like winning anything.

Lastly, winning Cups and competitions at 18s and 23s along with a first team winning leagues and promotion is a fantastic way of showing that our club from youth to first team is the place to be and totally on the up.

A lot of those Chelsea players are on more than £5k a week and think they've made it without kicking a ball for the first team. Quite a few will never fulfill their potential but will still become far richer than you and I.
I'm not sure we want to go down that route.

But I'm no expert on youth development. I'm just guessing there's a reason behind this. Perhaps the reason is a simple as Binnion not being up to the job? Or perhaps it's as I said in my first post, that Wilder wants the first team squad together and doesn't want to risk players for a game that, for him, is meaningless. He won promotion last season so he's got experience in this.

 

[EddieColquhoun]

Some of you need to chill out.
Matt Prestridge joined in the summer and we have had few injuries this season as Northampton did last season. This guy is an unsung hero and deserves a thread of his own.
I'm sure Wilder, Knill and Prestridge know what they are doing.

 

[BushBlade]

It's a good theory but it contradicts all we've been told all season about how the players "train as hard as they play".
If they don't do "soft" games in training, I doubt they would suddenly be asked to play in a "soft" friendly.
I'm not sure how much good that would do in keeping them match-ready anyway. Might as well just have a tough training session.

Even if they didn't want to risk the likes of Clarke and Wilson in a competitive match, it's another argument entirely to suddenly take key U23 players like Reed and Brooks out of the competitive U23 setup. Just so they can make up the numbers in a meaningless kickabout.

Good points but why else has it been done? Spite?
Maybe for the run in, we've toned the training down a bit to make sure no one gets injured.

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

Good points but why else has it been done? Spite?
Maybe for the run in, we've toned the training down a bit to make sure no one gets injured.

If we are going to need to rely on McNulty,Scougall,and Reed to get us over the line we're fucked and I'm lumping on us to finish 3rd and cop for thousands.

 

[BushBlade]

If we are going to need to rely on McNulty,Scougall,and Reed to get us over the line we're fucked and I'm lumping on us to finish 3rd and cop for thousands.

I don't think we'll have to but it's nice to have a manager that tries to cover every eventuality rather than just sleepwalking into the end of the season and then having to play crocks in important games.

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

I don't think we'll have to but it's nice to have a manager that tries to cover every eventuality rather than just sleepwalking into the end of the season and then having to play crocks in important games.

Well there's Duffy,Fleck,Coutts,O'Shea,Carruthers and Basham all ahead of Reed for starters and McNulty is plain fucking shit so I'd rather have Sharp playing ahead of him with a double leg amputation.
Although we've got HansonLavery,Chapman and even Done if Billy got crocked.

 

[larkymasher]

A lot of those Chelsea players are on more than £5k a week and think they've made it without kicking a ball for the first team. Quite a few will never fulfill their potential but will still become far richer than you and I.
I'm not sure we want to go down that route.

But I'm no expert on youth development. I'm just guessing there's a reason behind this. Perhaps the reason is a simple as Binnion not being up to the job? Or perhaps it's as I said in my first post, that Wilder wants the first team squad together and doesn't want to risk players for a game that, for him, is meaningless. He won promotion last season so he's got experience in this.

There is obviously a reason behind the decision and i trust it all benefits the first team. Which is 100% the correct thing to do.

What i am saying is that for young players it goes against what they have been taught in that to become a pro footballer you need to be a winner, be ultra competitive etc.....Playing weakened teams when trophies are close goes against that.

I think by real beef is that quite a few fringe players have it easy, IMO. They have all the trappings of a professional player with minimum effort. I see them being protected rather than pushed to play games........ The old fashion way was if you are not in the starting eleven then go and bust a gut in the reserves and prove you should be.

 

[BushBlade]

Well there's Duffy,Fleck,Coutts,O'Shea,Carruthers and Basham all ahead of Reed for starters and McNulty is plain fucking shit so I'd rather have Sharp playing ahead of him with a double leg amputation.
Although we've got HansonLavery,Chapman and even Done if Billy got crocked.

What do you want me to say? Wilder's a cunt?

 

[Baw Heid]

Maybe it's teaching them that to be a professional footballer you have to be in the first team. That, in the grand scheme of things, u23s is meaningless. The hard work they put in is to turn them into first team players, not to win kiddies cups. After all, there are players who got to a youth cup final who are now playing in the conference.
And maybe it's teaching them the most important lesson in football - it's a hard game.

What its not teaching them is the importance of winning. The argument about the Academy set up has always been that win or lose there is no relegation or promotion so its all about development. The cups are different and having watched the 23s this season you can see the extra edge it gives. Both these competitions have seen us competing against Premiership and Championship reserve squads and after a learning lesson at Stoke the attitude changed and with our aggressive approach and playing out from the back we looked like more than a match for anyone.
I just feel sorry for the lads themselves and still do not understand what harm it would have done to keep Reed and Brooks in the team but of course winning the league is the most important issue at this time

 

[Baw Heid]

So we could have played say Long, Wilson and Clarke as overage players last night and Long, Hussey and Scougall on Thursday.

Do Chapman and McNulty qualify as U23 anyway? Who else needs a game? There have been loads of recent U23 matches they could have played in to stay match fit.

yes if they are under 23 all our players qualify and this year 3 overage players can play as well

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

What do you want me to say? Wilder's a cunt?

Only if you think he is.
No idea why you're having a hissy fit because I've layed out plausible scenarios as to why Reed,McNulty et al are no more likely to figure than you or I.

 

[BushBlade]

Only if you think he is.
No idea why you're having a hissy fit because I've layed out plausible scenarios as to why Reed,McNulty et al are no more likely to figure than you or I.

I'm not having a hissy fit. I've suggested some possible reasons why Wilder has kept the first team together. I'm not claiming to be ITK or to have all the answers. I could be miles out but no one's suggested any alternative scenarios.
I'm aware of who's in our squad and as I said in my previous post, I don't think it's likely any of Reed, Scougall or McNulty will be needed.

I haven't really got anything else to add, that's all.

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

I'm not having a hissy fit. I've suggested some possible reasons why Wilder has kept the first team together. I'm not claiming to be ITK or to have all the answers. I could be miles out but no one's suggested any alternative scenarios.
I'm aware of who's in our squad and as I said in my previous post, I don't think it's likely any of Reed, Scougall or McNulty will be needed.

I haven't really got anything else to add, that's all.

I'll leave you to tell Wilder he's a ladygarden then.

 

[Bladezz]

Got to be honest, not bothered about the U23 Cup, play whoever you want, its a chance for our younger players to develop. The game isn't there for Mcnulty to improve, its for the youngsters to play against seasoned Pro's.

For me he could play Under 18's.

 

[BushBlade]

I'll leave you to tell Wilder he's a ladygarden then.

I was going to but TalkSport weren't taking calls earlier. On behalf of the flat cappers who watch the kids of course, I'm not that bothered, I just want to see us go up.

 

[Baw Heid]

Got to be honest, not bothered about the U23 Cup, play whoever you want, its a chance for our younger players to develop. The game isn't there for Mcnulty to improve, its for the youngsters to play against seasoned Pro's.

For me he could play Under 18's.

I've said this many times the Premiership and Championship teams recruit to build up what is a reserve team together with lads brought through from their Academy We don't do this in the main, we put together a squad consisting of a few fringe players and a young group based on the Under 18s. This worked really well. I am just disappointed that we recently decided to overplay the small squad and even take players like Reed and Brooks out. To me its all a bit strange but what do I know. Still promotion is what it is about and rightly so.

 

[larkymasher]

Got to be honest, not bothered about the U23 Cup, play whoever you want, its a chance for our younger players to develop. The game isn't there for Mcnulty to improve, its for the youngsters to play against seasoned Pro's.

For me he could play Under 18's.

The 23s team is not all about playing against seasoned pros. Its as much to do with playing along side seasoned pros.

 

[wizadry]

A lot of those Chelsea players are on more than £5k a week and think they've made it without kicking a ball for the first team. Quite a few will never fulfill their potential but will still become far richer than you and I.
I'm not sure we want to go down that route.

But I'm no expert on youth development. I'm just guessing there's a reason behind this. Perhaps the reason is a simple as Binnion not being up to the job? Or perhaps it's as I said in my first post, that Wilder wants the first team squad together and doesn't want to risk players for a game that, for him, is meaningless. He won promotion last season so he's got experience in this.

You've given some good responses in this thread BB and its a good job youve responded to some posts but just to clarify, and I know you weren't saying this but Trav Binnion is more than up for the job and he doesn't fuck about just like Wilder doesn't.

Does anyone really think that if Trav had the chance to play the best players he could, he'd turn it down? No, me neither.

It's a shame for the youngsters to not look like winning anything after their superb efforts they've put in but they've had very good experience this season and ultimately, the first team always comes first.

 

[larkymasher]

There are a few fringe players who are accused of being sha

You've given some good responses in this thread BB and its a good job youve responded to some posts but just to clarify, and I know you weren't saying this but Trav Binnion is more than up for the job and he doesn't fuck about just like Wilder doesn't.

Does anyone really think that if Trav had the chance to play the best players he could, he'd turn it down? No, me neither.

It's a shame for the youngsters to not look like winning anything after their superb efforts they've put in but they've had very good experience this season and ultimately, the first team always comes first.

I could not agree more.... I would imagine Travis and John Dungworth would be as pissed off as much as the youngsters about when players are available and not..