Time to show your worth Mr Birch

[SteelCity Blade]

they've obviously not taken into account (anywhere) that if the standard of football improves, more people might be inclined to start turning up again??

As I said somewhere else sp, only if we start winning. If the style improves and we're still losing the crowds will stay the same at best. People want to see winning football above all else.

 

[super_pig]

>People want to see winning football above all else
do you reckon that is all there is to it?. i must be a bit weird then:thumbup:

 

[Coily]

Why is that? We have no pace at all. I thought successful long ball which Adams definitely is imo depends on 442 with pace out wide, height in midfield, strength up top and a quick man up top?

Is he? I don't know myself, but Vale fans feel they play good football on the deck. He wouldn't be my preferred choice as I think O'Driscoll being appointed would be a positive move that would get the fans back onside, but Adams has had plenty of success and I'd definately feel comfortable with his ability to get us out of the present shit position we are in.

 

[SteelCity Blade]

>People want to see winning football above all else
do you reckon that is all there is to it?. i must be a bit weird then:thumbup:

Well no and I do understand everyone has their own opinion in what they want for their money, but it seems to me that supporters are generally happy when their side is winning.

Its not all that matters but to me it is by far the most important thing. If we want bums on seats again we have to win games. I'm not saying we cant do that with SOD, I just think the playing style is a distant second to the result.....again only my opinion.

 

[Wards]

See I used to think along those lines, but after watching KB's teams for two seasons my viewpoint completely changed...

 

[metty]

I would prefer to see Micky Adams get the job. He's vastly experienced and would put inject needed passion back into the club.He's far more experienced than Neil Warnock was when he came to us. If SoD came to us I can just imagine everyone falling asleep during the team talk zzzzzzzzzzzzz.

 

[Robbie]

do you reckon that is all there is to it?. i must be a bit weird then:thumbup:

I'm with you SP,

Take Arsenal, they have more fans now than when they were winning boring every week.
It's possible to appease your fans without winning each week.

I want to see a solid footballing foundation for us. For me, Adams won't fit the bill.

 

[lenners]

We won more than we lost last season and lost 5,000 season ticket holders.

 

[bartman]

I'm with you SP,

Take Arsenal, they have more fans now than when they were winning boring every week.
It's possible to appease your fans without winning each week.

I want to see a solid footballing foundation for us. For me, Adams won't fit the bill.

Having a larger ground helps

 

[super_pig]

>supporters are generally happy when their side is winning
well i was moaning when we got to the playoffs under hoofwell.. so perhaps i am weird (but not the only one eh?).. there are pragmatic reasons for this however.. if we'd have gone up we'd have come straight back down again.. it must be because i was brought up on john harris teams.. i never really liked the stuff served up under bassett and warnock either <shrugs>

 

[Eskimo]

I've enjoyed reading this today many good comments and suggestions. The context at the club has changes completely and we need someone who can get this team winning and buy well on reduced income projections and budgets.

My top two would be O Driscoll and Adams in that order. O Driscoll would suit everyone I think and its important the club and fans are together. It wpuld signal a definite shift away from direst football and I think fans would be patient. My doubt though is that if I was him I'd hang on for a better offer from a club with cash to spend, like us a couple of years ago, a relegated premier club or one with parachute payments. Its time for him to move on from Donny though.

Adams would be an appointment very similar to the Warnock appointment - not everyones first choice but someone we could get behind.

I'm interested in what the final write up will be on Blackwell and Speed too. My view is that Blackwell was brought in to get a technically good set of players playing more effectively together and in that he generally succeeded. He was criticised for style, fair enough but for me his biggest failing was his signings. I'm struggling to think of anyone he signed who is worth more now as a current player or as a former player brought in more than he cost. The manner of his sacking was bizarre and I'd love to know if it was on the cards before the QPR match. My guess is they did not want to lose Speed and one had to go.

Speed - some reports are suggesting he left because United in some way let him down, money not there to spend and so on. I think it was a high risk appointment due to his lack of experience which was not working out and we are better off without him. I wonder if he was nudged?

 

[super_pig]

when blackwell was first appointed there was a leeds fan on the 606 board who predicted that blackwell would do really well with the players he inherited and then as more of his players were introduced things would go down the pan (just like they did at leeds).. and the standard of players he would bequeath the club on his dismissal would be dire.. a surprisingly good prediction IMO.. our current plight seems to mirror that of leeds three seasons ago

 

[Yossarian]

I'm staggered that nobody has snapped up Kevin Blackwell yet.

 

[Kopped]

I'm staggered that nobody has snapped up Kevin Blackwell yet.

Yeah, I can see KB turning up at Swansea soon....Can you imagine Cotterills face?

There is a reason KB hasn't got another job yet.....

a) He's still being paid by US.
b) He's a Hoof Ball Shite Man Manager.
c) He's Gash.
d) He's got 1 of the worst names in Football.

and last but not least:

e) His current record* involves taking decent Squads and making them Poor and beyond recognition. (His Injury record as a Manager is also VERY Shocking).

 

[Nick Jansky]

Aye but not planning for 2012 on the pitch will mean that bottom line looks much less healthy in 2012.
If you don't plan to get the football right, the accounts will be ferked anyway.

This is absolutely spot on, and its true for any business. If you don't get the product right, any financial forecasts are totally pointless. We need to be planning for the longterm. Whether that happens remains to be seen, but don't underestimate how important this appointment is going to be.

SOD for me.

 

[super_pig]

my lad knocks about with a couple of the younger lads who have left.. one of them told him that he was shocked when he moved on because the training sessions weren't half as brutal.. is that where the injuries come from?

 

[Kopped]

my lad knocks about with a couple of the younger lads who have left.. one of them told him that he was shocked when he moved on because the training sessions weren't half as brutal.. is that where the injuries come from?

That's the report I got from Harper as well.

His words were: It's Go go go go all the time, no let up! The injured don't get a break, they have to participate in basic stretching etc. Which is aggravating in itself.

I think it IS KB who is at fault for the Injuries in all honesty

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

If we've identified SOD as our man, and refusing to stump up the comp, then it will be one major kick in the bollocks yet again.

I understand the horse hasn't bolted just yet but this has all the signs of the 'Blades-Way' all over it -identify your target and opt for the cheap option!

What's better?

Spend the Speed compo on the right manager or compromise on the manager and spend the money on players in Jan?

 

[Toronto Blade]

Could be Blackwell's ideas to go full out but I believe the injuries started cropping up when Tony Daley left for Wolves.

 

[Ollessendro]

when blackwell was first appointed there was a leeds fan on the 606 board who predicted that blackwell would do really well with the players he inherited and then as more of his players were introduced things would go down the pan (just like they did at leeds).. and the standard of players he would bequeath the club on his dismissal would be dire.. a surprisingly good prediction IMO.. our current plight seems to mirror that of leeds three seasons ago

He did exactly the same at Luton too.

I've enjoyed reading this today many good comments and suggestions. The context at the club has changes completely and we need someone who can get this team winning and buy well on reduced income projections and budgets.

My top two would be O Driscoll and Adams in that order. O Driscoll would suit everyone I think and its important the club and fans are together. It wpuld signal a definite shift away from direst football and I think fans would be patient. My doubt though is that if I was him I'd hang on for a better offer from a club with cash to spend, like us a couple of years ago, a relegated premier club or one with parachute payments. Its time for him to move on from Donny though.

Adams would be an appointment very similar to the Warnock appointment - not everyones first choice but someone we could get behind.

agree with all of that. Adams would be a decent choice, BUT the ambitous, forward thinking choice would be O'Driscoll. I won't be devestated if we choose Adams, but I will see it as an opportunity missed.

I'm with SCB. The players we have are much more suited to Adams. We have a "MIX" of players of differing styles as opposed to the passing game.

KB, brought in players to play "HIS" style of football.

Speed tried to play "FOOTBALL".

Both inevitably failed, so bringing in SOD would be a sideways step (IMO) to Speed.

Adams will be able to mix it. Whether he can handle this level is the only question I have over his appointment.

This kind of post really saddens me. Just shows how little ambition united fans have. We are letting a poor team (full of loan players) dictate the next management choice. It's absolutely pathetic.

So Adams keeps us up with some passion, 'direct' football and returns our hard to beat tag. We are were we where 10 years ago when Warnock took over. Adams has a greater chance of keeping us up, so let's take the easy short term option.

Why cant SOD keep us up? Who is to say that he couldn't get that team playing football. Anyone given thought to the fact that Speed was not very good. Inexperienced, too nice, tactically naive and out of his depth in a relegation scrap. I am confident that if O'Driscoll was given the job he would keep us up this season.

But forget about ambition, the likes of Monty, Quinn, Cressy, Ertl, Hendo and Kozzy would be more suited to Adams. Makes perfect sense to bring Adams in!? Some united fans make me want to cry. Let's not forget that Adams would be the cheaper option and hence this would please the board too. So we stay up, remain an average, long ball playing, hard to beat Championship side and we don't spend much money. Everyone is happy. I despair.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Anyone given thought to the fact that Speed was not very good. Inexperienced, too nice, tactically naive and out of his depth in a relegation scrap.

I think I might have floated the possibility a couple of times. In fact, yes. Yes I did.

 

[DonnyBlade85]

Could be Blackwell's ideas to go full out but I believe the injuries started cropping up when Tony Daley left for Wolves.

bang on the money there!

 

[ClarkeyBlade]

a) He's still being paid by US.

Blackwell is still being paid by us? I didnt know that? Where has this been mentioned as I thought we paid him off, rather than giving him a 'wage' post-sacking.

 

[Pinchy]

This kind of post really saddens me. Just shows how little ambition united fans have. We are letting a poor team (full of loan players) dictate the next management choice. It's absolutely pathetic.

So Adams keeps us up with some passion, 'direct' football and returns our hard to beat tag. We are were we where 10 years ago when Warnock took over. Adams has a greater chance of keeping us up, so let's take the easy short term option.

Why cant SOD keep us up? Who is to say that he couldn't get that team playing football. Anyone given thought to the fact that Speed was not very good. Inexperienced, too nice, tactically naive and out of his depth in a relegation scrap. I am confident that if O'Driscoll was given the job he would keep us up this season.

But forget about ambition, the likes of Monty, Quinn, Cressy, Ertl, Hendo and Kozzy would be more suited to Adams. Makes perfect sense to bring Adams in!? Some united fans make me want to cry. Let's not forget that Adams would be the cheaper option and hence this would please the board too. So we stay up, remain an average, long ball playing, hard to beat Championship side and we don't spend much money. Everyone is happy. I despair.

Absolutely right mate. That's the second post today I could have written myself!

 

[Ollessendro]

I think I might have floated the possibility a couple of times. In fact, yes. Yes I did.

apologies, I saw it in another thread, but couldn't remember who put it. I couldn't be bothered to search who it was, so I'll give you belated credit. It is a very good point though. Speed was out of his depth. Not fully his own fault, but maybe the timing. He had his hands tied and he is an inexperienced and soft bellied. We gave him the benefit of the doubt (we'll maybe I didn't ) for some of his tactical decisions, but even though he was in charge for less than 20 games I can think of him making lots of poor choices, getting tactics wrong, picking the wrong players, leaving players on too long, having faith in no hopers and not giving a chance to other players.

Let's grow some balls and pick O'Driscoll United!

 

[Coily]

This kind of post really saddens me. Just shows how little ambition united fans have. We are letting a poor team (full of loan players) dictate the next management choice. It's absolutely pathetic.

So Adams keeps us up with some passion, 'direct' football and returns our hard to beat tag. We are were we where 10 years ago when Warnock took over. Adams has a greater chance of keeping us up, so let's take the easy short term option.

Why cant SOD keep us up? Who is to say that he couldn't get that team playing football. Anyone given thought to the fact that Speed was not very good. Inexperienced, too nice, tactically naive and out of his depth in a relegation scrap. I am confident that if O'Driscoll was given the job he would keep us up this season.

But forget about ambition, the likes of Monty, Quinn, Cressy, Ertl, Hendo and Kozzy would be more suited to Adams. Makes perfect sense to bring Adams in!? Some united fans make me want to cry. Let's not forget that Adams would be the cheaper option and hence this would please the board too. So we stay up, remain an average, long ball playing, hard to beat Championship side and we don't spend much money. Everyone is happy. I despair.

I think you're being a bit unfair to Kopped there, though I don't agree with his post either. I don't think for one minute there was the suggestion that we have to 'make do' if you like with Adams because of the players we presently have, ergo a lack of ambition on Unitedites parts. But you can't expect miracles with the present lot we have. It doesn't matter whether SOD, Adams or Mourinho pitched up, that lot won't play sparkly football. In another context, you can't produce Michelin standard meals using Iceland party food, not possible.

However, what I would say is SOD is much more qualified than Speed to assess the squad and over time implement his way of how the game should be played. And who's to say that Adams can't do the same and create the attacking, footballing side we all crave?

 

[God]

That's the report I got from Harper as well.

His words were: It's Go go go go all the time, no let up! The injured don't get a break, they have to participate in basic stretching etc. Which is aggravating in itself.

I think it IS KB who is at fault for the Injuries in all honesty

I think its more likely to be 'BIG' Sam Ellis at fault. He's more to do with day to day coaching of the players than KB was. AND look to BSE for the reason behind Billy the Blade being ousted.

 

[Nick Jansky]

He did exactly the same at Luton too.



agree with all of that. Adams would be a decent choice, BUT the ambitous, forward thinking choice would be O'Driscoll. I won't be devestated if we choose Adams, but I will see it as an opportunity missed.



This kind of post really saddens me. Just shows how little ambition united fans have. We are letting a poor team (full of loan players) dictate the next management choice. It's absolutely pathetic.

So Adams keeps us up with some passion, 'direct' football and returns our hard to beat tag. We are were we where 10 years ago when Warnock took over. Adams has a greater chance of keeping us up, so let's take the easy short term option.

Why cant SOD keep us up? Who is to say that he couldn't get that team playing football. Anyone given thought to the fact that Speed was not very good. Inexperienced, too nice, tactically naive and out of his depth in a relegation scrap. I am confident that if O'Driscoll was given the job he would keep us up this season.

But forget about ambition, the likes of Monty, Quinn, Cressy, Ertl, Hendo and Kozzy would be more suited to Adams. Makes perfect sense to bring Adams in!? Some united fans make me want to cry. Let's not forget that Adams would be the cheaper option and hence this would please the board too. So we stay up, remain an average, long ball playing, hard to beat Championship side and we don't spend much money. Everyone is happy. I despair.

This is a different Olle right? Somebody's hacked your account? Agree with everything you have said in the last day or so. No point harping on about all the mistakes of the past, they've been made & can't be unmade, and we are in deep shit at the moment, and at a pivotal point as far as the next few years are concerned. I don't want a short term appointment, lets look to the future even if it means relegation this season. Which it needn't. We need a new broom, new ideas, andsomething that the fans can rally around.

 

[Ollessendro]

This is a different Olle right? Somebody's hacked your account? Agree with everything you have said in the last day or so.

Nah Nik, same old me. You wanted the old Ollessendro back, so don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

I think you're being a bit unfair to Kopped there, though I don't agree with his post either. I don't think for one minute there was the suggestion that we have to 'make do' if you like with Adams because of the players we presently have, ergo a lack of ambition on Unitedites parts. But you can't expect miracles with the present lot we have. It doesn't matter whether SOD, Adams or Mourinho pitched up, that lot won't play sparkly football. In another context, you can't produce Michelin standard meals using Iceland party food, not possible.

However, what I would say is SOD is much more qualified than Speed to assess the squad and over time implement his way of how the game should be played. And who's to say that Adams can't do the same and create the attacking, footballing side we all crave?

You're right that it is a bit unfair on Kopped, but it is not aimed at several fans. On different threads many have been banding the same opinion 'the players can't play footbal so let's bring in Adams'. It makes little or no sense to me. Why? Because SOD can build a squad over time. That is the idea. Like he has at Donny. He'll keep us up and then bring in new players. He'll use the academy, buy players and build a team. It may take a bit of time, but so what. The point I am making is it is a long term option. The Adams appointment might bring fruit quicker, but the choice of SOD will bring juicer, fresher and riper fruits (it just might take a touch longer).

 

[Ollessendro]

[Conclusion

Why am I banging on about this? The point is that the time has come for our £300k a year Chief Executive. Cometh the hour, cometh the man. Stand up and be counted Trevor. He can convince McCabe, he carries weight with the board and he needs to us every ounce of skill and knowledge to make sure we get the right man.

I am willing to forget about the poor decisions and back Birch if we get the right man.

Over to you Trevor .....

Is there anything that I need to say in response to my initial post and Birch making another catastrophic error? Birch once again makes a poor decision that will cost United dearly. After getting us excited he let's us down again. Commercial skills maybe, footballing brain absolutely not! Mind you, if Birch brings in investment (his primary focus remember) then he and McCabe can bugger off together and everyone will be happy. Cheap option, wrong option.

Birch had a fantastic opportunity to redeem himself. Perhaps his hands were tied by McCabe/the baord, but in my view he has failed SUFC once again. Like Micalijo pointed out (quite rightly) in another thread, iut was a sad day for United fans when Micky 'Hoofy' Adams was appointed.