Time to show your worth Mr Birch

[Yossarian]

I think Wenger was unavailable for talks Ollie.

 

[Rudders]

I don't agree with your thrust about this being a catastrophic appointment error, or your assertion that appointing Adams will lead to long ball football (over a sustained period of time).

To my mind the aim of football is to win games (entertainingly). We needed (need) a manager to stabilise us and then re-build to help us achieve this.
How he goes about it (football style) is not as much of a concern, if we actually win games. I think Adams and Cork have the experience, skills and guts to start this process. It seems from the situation that S'OD did not have the desire to do this with us. Do you really want an (expensive) manager with no desire?

How we go about being succesful in the future will be probably be through sustained investment in better quality players and through development of youth players and the academy system. I think we have one of these but not the other and no manager will be truly succesfull without both - unless he is a miracle worker and if he is he will soon be poached by a Premier League team.

I actually think a lot of the good work done by S'OD at Donny has coincided with unprecedented levels of investment (in their terms) from their Chairman, a stable period of management and a new ground that got built for them on the cheap. All these things are likely to cause an upsurge in any teams fortunes (including ours)...

 

[SwissBlade]

So here we are.

The majority of us wanted SoD in the end. We didn't get him.

We flirted with "talks" with Scott, SoD and Micky. We know this because their clubs announced it. We perhaps talked with others like Bobby Davidson.

Many on here wanted us to take our time and interview a few candidates. We didn't do this with Robson, Blackwell or Speed and all three ended up being the wrong men (although Speed was out of our hands).

We've been through 2 managers, one caretaker up to this point so the decision had to be right. But we'll only know if the decision was right or wrong if he succeeds and delivers or if he fails spectacularly.

I said when the candidates were coming through that it was a choice of SoD for a change in style or Micky to do things the United way. Both have pro's and con's but for me the time was right to be bold and go get SoD. And get him fast. We didn't and we didn't.

I'm not at all disappointed with getting Micky, sure we could've really gone for it with SoD, but personally the only thing that Birch did wrong (against the views of many on here) was take so much time in making the appointment. The list should've been drawn up as soon as we gave Speed permission to talk to Wales, we needed a man in place before Christmas so that we had a chance to arrest the slide during Christmas.

In the end we've left Micky with a real mountain to climb 1 point from 12 over Christmas is worrying. But he seems to be aware of the areas of concern, 13 goals conceded in 4 is an alarm bell.

So Birch and Steer rolled out Micky and Corky, not exactly Mourinho, but lets see if Birch can stand up to the next task. Back Micky to get the players he needs to keep us in the Division and push us out of the danger zone.

So Yes it was time for Birch to show his worth to an extent, but now he REALLY needs to show his worth! 27 days Birchy!

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Catastrophic error? Hardly.

Remember Micky was plenty of fans first choice (In the poll that i started), and i suspect that of the large amount of people that voted for SOD would have had micky as their second choice, so it's hardly a robson-esque appointment that is deeply unpopular.

Did you not get what you wanted for Christmas? Did you want a ps3 for the shed and got a reconditioned 3DO instead?

 

[lenners]

We didn't take our time.
It's clear from the interview with Adams that he was appointed a couple of days after being first contacted and equally clear from the interview with Birch that he didn't have a clue what kind of football to expect with Adams.
It was panic time.
He maybe the right appointment for an emergency and he may be right longer term.
But let's not pretend the appointment was part of some grand masterplan.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

We didn't take our time.
It's clear from the interview with Adams that he was appointed a couple of days after being first contacted and equally clear from the interview with Birch that he didn't have a clue what kind of football to expect with Adams.
It was panic time.
He maybe the right appointment for an emergency and he may be right longer term.
But let's not pretend the appointment was part of some grand masterplan.

Woah Woah Woah,

You were the one moaning about not making an appointment til January, and now you're saying we didn't take our time?

Your usual consistency is slipping Len. Sort it out son.

 

[lenners]

Woah Woah Woah,

You were the one moaning about not making an appointment til January, and now you're saying we didn't take our time?

Your usual consistency is slipping Len. Sort it out son.

My consistency is entirely clear, the club's isn't.
They panicked and appointed Adams, pretty clear from the sequence of events and Birch's remarkable comments he had no idea what kind of football to expect.
Maybe he just forgot to ask during the exhaustive interview/selection process.

 

[SwissBlade]

My consistency is entirely clear, the club's isn't.
They panicked and appointed Adams, pretty clear from the sequence of events and Birch's remarkable comments he had no idea what kind of football to expect.
Maybe he just forgot to ask during the exhaustive interview/selection process.

Interesting point of view Lenners. I was in agreement with you that we needed to act fast before Christmas, but we didn't. I thought we were too slow and missed crucial days over Christmas.

So Adams was appointed within days of being contacted, thats good isn't it? It shows that we then knew what we wanted (eventually) and went out and got him. The best jobs I've got have acted quickly in taking a decision to offer the job. The ones that have delayed decisions have mostly been rejected.

 

[lenners]

Interesting point of view Lenners. I was in agreement with you that we needed to act fast before Christmas, but we didn't. I thought we were too slow and missed crucial days over Christmas.

So Adams was appointed within days of being contacted, thats good isn't it? It shows that we then knew what we wanted (eventually) and went out and got him. The best jobs I've got have acted quickly in taking a decision to offer the job. The ones that have delayed decisions have mostly been rejected.

My main issue is with the pretence we were taking ages over some alleged supersonice selection procedure when in reality we were doing what all clubs do - go to your first choice, try and get a deal and so on.
That and the latest bit of double talk about the alleged football style etc when Birch couldn't even say what style Adams would bring.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

My main issue is with the pretence we were taking ages over some alleged supersonice selection procedure when in reality we were doing what all clubs do - go to your first choice, try and get a deal and so on.
That and the latest bit of double talk about the alleged football style etc when Birch couldn't even say what style Adams would bring.

So we got our first choice - fucking excellent piece of business.

 

[SwissBlade]

My main issue is with the pretence we were taking ages over some alleged supersonice selection procedure when in reality we were doing what all clubs do - go to your first choice, try and get a deal and so on.
That and the latest bit of double talk about the alleged football style etc when Birch couldn't even say what style Adams would bring.

I think you're making a bigger issue about this than is necessary. I really don't mind the so called double talk if it means we get the number one choice. We bought ourselves some time. But I don't think Micky was the number one choice. But once the number one was not on the cards, we went for Micky. Bad Move? I don't think so, perhaps very different to SoD, but by no means a bad move.

As for Birch not knowing enough about the football style, again this is getting overplayed. If Adams convinced the board & Birch that he was the best choice, then I'd prefer Birch to stick to sorting out your beloved subject of finances and not get involved with football chat.

Micky will have a clear remit:

1. Get results to take us forward
2. Meet target 1 on a budget of 50p
3. Fill Bramall lane for every game
4. Use academy lads before even thinking about buying in quality players

This remit may or may not have been written on the back of fag packet.

 

[SteelCity Blade]

MA was always my first choice and as far as I'm concerned the board have appointed the best man for the job (both short and long term). It will be a long time before we can challenge for the top flight again. We have a lot of deep rooted problems on the playing side that will take time to fix.

In the meantime we simply have to survive at this level and become competitive again. Its back to basics time I'm afraid folks. Micky is a versatile manager and is able to work with different kinds of players because his methods are adaptable. He will also roll his sleeves up and fight.....which is the first thing we need to do.

I'm sick of hearing about SOD. Although I was prepared to give the guy a go (if United had chosen him) I look back retrospectively, consider what ive seen on the pitch in the last few weeks and come to the conclusion that.......appointing SOD at BDTBL would have been a disaster.

 

[lenners]

I'm not saying it was a good move or bad move, merely pointing out the board said one thing and did another.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

I'm not saying it was a good move or bad move, merely pointing out the board said one thing and did another.

I'm pretty sure if SO'D had decided to come to us it wouldn't have been until today and as such, the appointment in the New Year comment was probably consistent with the fact he was still our No.1 choice at that time. The Board acted reasonably quickly once it became clear he wasn't coming to appoint MA and I suspect he was always their 2nd choice but I can't really see what your gripe is when you were dead against another quick appointment and wanted them to explore bringing SO'D in.

A lot of us said it was probably SO'D 1st choice if not MA and that's what it's seemingly turned out to be so it's not a panic decision by any means.

 

[Kenilworth]

PORT VALE NOT A LONG BALL SIDE

I have a mate who follows Vale all over the country and in no way could they have been considered a long ball side. They can pass and play and also speed up the tempo, as required. They beat us and the Pigs in the cup last season and had a long cup run in both competitions beating several teams much higher than them in the league, so dont give us any cock and bull about MA being a long ball hoof merchant. He is a decent manager with a good track record at getting the best out of the players that he has available - something Speed decided to ignore and go with an attempt to pick a system and shoe horn the players into it - as well as being negative with only one up front.

The situation we are in now is as a direct result of consistently playing one up front, this policy being wholely ineffective and the loss in confidence that a bad run of results breeds. As a squad we are not that much poorer than many other sides in this division but have been playing into the opposition manager's hands - the game plan already abundantly clear for managers with any nouse to counter and exploit. Speed, fresh out of his coaching badges and with a school boy style view of how the game should be played. He may get more out of Wales since he will have better quality players to utilise and rely on but it was foolish to take one view and not establish what you have got - something MA has already alluded to in his post match interview when he was asking the question at half time of the players.

MA will prove to be a very good move for this club and I for one will give my full 100% (cos there is no such thing as 110% or any variation thereof) backing to him.

 

[lenners]

I'm pretty sure if SO'D had decided to come to us it wouldn't have been until today and as such, the appointment in the New Year comment was probably consistent with the fact he was still our No.1 choice at that time. The Board acted reasonably quickly once it became clear he wasn't coming to appoint MA and I suspect he was always their 2nd choice but I can't really see what your gripe is when you were dead against another quick appointment and wanted them to explore bringing SO'D in.

A lot of us said it was probably SO'D 1st choice if not MA and that's what it's seemingly turned out to be so it's not a panic decision by any means.

And Micky Adams bears no relation to the type of manager and football the board said it was going for.
It was done in a panic, almost certainly induced by two quick defeats which speedily heralded the Carver promise being chucked out the window.
As I said, I don't know if he's a good appointment or not.
But I do know the board said one thing and did another again.
We're still lacking proper, consistent, strong leadership at the top of our club.
We will struggle until that situation changes.

 

[mall]

To my mind the aim of football is to win games (entertainingly). We needed (need) a manager to stabilise us and then re-build to help us achieve this.
How he goes about it (football style) is not as much of a concern, if we actually win games.

Didn't you realise that when Blackwell was sacked, despite his win ratio, the prime reason was the teeth numbing displays his team delivered. Style of play matters to quite a few and in the long term leads to a better place.

 

[Trigger Blade]

Is there anything that I need to say in response to my initial post and Birch making another catastrophic error? Birch once again makes a poor decision that will cost United dearly. After getting us excited he let's us down again. Commercial skills maybe, footballing brain absolutely not! Mind you, if Birch brings in investment (his primary focus remember) then he and McCabe can bugger off together and everyone will be happy. Cheap option, wrong option.

Birch had a fantastic opportunity to redeem himself. Perhaps his hands were tied by McCabe/the baord, but in my view he has failed SUFC once again. Like Micalijo pointed out (quite rightly) in another thread, iut was a sad day for United fans when Micky 'Hoofy' Adams was appointed.

Unless you have the foresight of Nostradamus, which I doubt, it is impossible to know whether appointing Micky Adams will prove to be a catastrohic appointment or not. We couldn't even be sure that Robon was in that category when he arrived, though there were plenty of warning signs.

MA may not be the best appointment the club could have made, but that's nowhere near the same thing as catastrophic. Isn't it great to be able to shout your opinion very loudly, knowing you'll never have to with no responsibility for the consequences?

As for the style of football Micky Adams plays, I realise you don't get to see much football, so you won't have seen Port Vale play, but take it from someone who has (plus Kenilworth's mate, who's a Vale fan), it can be pleasing on the eye, and effective. Who knows, it might not be a catastrophic appointment at all, have you considered that as a possibility?

 

[Ollessendro]

Unless you have the foresight of Nostradamus, which I doubt, it is impossible to know whether appointing Micky Adams will prove to be a catastrohic appointment or not. We couldn't even be sure that Robon was in that category when he arrived, though there were plenty of warning signs.

MA may not be the best appointment the club could have made, but that's nowhere near the same thing as catastrophic. Isn't it great to be able to shout your opinion very loudly, knowing you'll never have to with no responsibility for the consequences?

As for the style of football Micky Adams plays, I realise you don't get to see much football, so you won't have seen Port Vale play, but take it from someone who has (plus Kenilworth's mate, who's a Vale fan), it can be pleasing on the eye, and effective. Who knows, it might not be a catastrophic appointment at all, have you considered that as a possibility?

Your point in bold says it all Trig. 2nd best (at best) but of course in no way catastrophic.

In response to your first question, I am merely writing my opinion not shouting. What exactly do you want me to do? Are you suggesting we meet for a beer Trig and then you can smash a bottle over my head when I say something bad about United? And whilst on the subject I am speaking for many United fans. Any fan who is honest with themself, will see this as a massive opportunity missed.

I don't actually mind Adams. He is a decent bloke, he is honest, he's a Sheffielder and a Blade. He'll bring passion and experience to the job. However I don't see him as any better than Warnock and hence feel like we've gone backwards 10 years. O'Driscoll could have changed the ethos of the club, style of play and really made something of United. For these reasons I think that the decision is catastrophic. It will always be a case of opprunity missed.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

And Micky Adams bears no relation to the type of manager and football the board said it was going for.
It was done in a panic, almost certainly induced by two quick defeats which speedily heralded the Carver promise being chucked out the window.
As I said, I don't know if he's a good appointment or not.
But I do know the board said one thing and did another again.
We're still lacking proper, consistent, strong leadership at the top of our club.
We will struggle until that situation changes.

At 2.11pm we had gone for our first choice and got him!!!!
3.19pm and 4.33pm we had done it wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For fucks sake make thi mind up and do it quick cus Mummys home from work soon.

 

[Trigger Blade]

Your point in bold says it all Trig. 2nd best (at best) but of course in no way catastrophic.

In response to your first question, I am merely writing my opinion not shouting. What exactly do you want me to do? Are you suggesting we meet for a beer Trig and then you can smash a bottle over my head when I say something bad about United? And whilst on the subject I am speaking for many United fans. Any fan who is honest with themself, will see this as a massive opportunity missed.

I don't actually mind Adams. He is a decent bloke, he is honest, he's a Sheffielder and a Blade. He'll bring passion and experience to the job. However I don't see him as any better than Warnock and hence feel like we've gone backwards 10 years. O'Driscoll could have changed the ethos of the club, style of play and really made something of United. For these reasons I think that the decision is catastrophic. It will always be a case of opprunity missed.

SOD was my choice, so using your logic, you're speaking for me, because we didn't get him, but you're not.

It may be a case of an opportunity missed. What's happening in Queensland is catastrophic, appointing Micky Adams is not. It's useful to keep things in perspective.

As for your bizarre beer bottle breaking suggestion, are you deranged?

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Your point in bold says it all Trig. 2nd best (at best) but of course in no way catastrophic.

In response to your first question, I am merely writing my opinion not shouting. What exactly do you want me to do? Are you suggesting we meet for a beer Trig and then you can smash a bottle over my head when I say something bad about United? And whilst on the subject I am speaking for many United fans. Any fan who is honest with themself, will see this as a massive opportunity missed.

I don't actually mind Adams. He is a decent bloke, he is honest, he's a Sheffielder and a Blade. He'll bring passion and experience to the job. However I don't see him as any better than Warnock and hence feel like we've gone backwards 10 years. O'Driscoll could have changed the ethos of the club, style of play and really made something of United. For these reasons I think that the decision is catastrophic. It will always be a case of opprunity missed.

Heres to another ten year regression and promotion the The Prem!

 

[muttsnuts]

Lets suppose Adams stabilises the club, gets us promoted next year playing some academy kids, the football is good and attendances are up, we get to a cup semi (or two). Would all the knockers on here still say we should have signed SOD? i dont think so. What im trying to say is at least give the guy a chance because half of you have him condemned already.

 

[bartman]

Sean O Driscoll- some would say he is an average manager with limited success managing an average team playing average tippy tappy football who tries to hide behind the 'little Donny' mantra but in reality has been provided a decent wage bill(and transfer funds) by his chairman but hasn't got the ability to progress them any further( as Owen Coyle,Tony Pullis and Ian Holloway did with their teams.)

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

And Micky Adams bears no relation to the type of manager and football the board said it was going for.
It was done in a panic, almost certainly induced by two quick defeats which speedily heralded the Carver promise being chucked out the window.
As I said, I don't know if he's a good appointment or not.
But I do know the board said one thing and did another again.
We're still lacking proper, consistent, strong leadership at the top of our club.
We will struggle until that situation changes.

We agreed a couple of weeks ago that we thought SO'D was the man to take us forward and Birch seemed to agree. Events would seem to suggest that he was interested to a point and we did talk to him but for whatever reason, it didn't happen. So far, the Board appeared to have acted as you suggested ?

Given that he seemingly turned us down, the Board would then have turned back to the applicants/short list. Of those we know about how many had the same kind of 'footballing' credentials, plus experience we were looking for ? Possibly none so we then had to look at the pros and cons of the rest and as you yourself said last week, Adams was the likeliest 2nd best candidate.

OK, you could argue that the Board changed their mind about what they were looking for, or panicked, but sometimes you have to settle for your 2nd choice and that may not be exactly what you said you were looking for. Adams has some skills that SO'D doesn't have, promotion from this division being one of them and who's to say he won't do better than SO'D would have done. I admit to being one of those who maybe got too lost up in the wonderful world of SO'D and his football but that wasn't the only criteria TB said they were looking for even though you're choosing to concentrate on it.

 

[Ollessendro]

SOD was my choice, so using your logic, you're speaking for me, because we didn't get him, but you're not.

It may be a case of an opportunity missed. What's happening in Queensland is catastrophic, appointing Micky Adams is not. It's useful to keep things in perspective.

As for your bizarre beer bottle breaking suggestion, are you deranged?

A little bit yes.

I love these kinbd of bullshit 'let's put it in context' comments. There are starving kids in Africa, so let's forget about the boards horrendous timing in sacking Blackwell. The polar bears are almost extinct, so let's let McCabe off scott free for appointment Robson. Sure what is going on in Brisbane is a tragedy, but it has fuck all to do with SUFC. Perspective, smersf-pective .... Birch/McCabe/the board have made a catastrophic decision regardless of war in the middle east, the US invading Iran and the collapse of the Euro (all of these being more likely than muttsnit suggestion).

Lets suppose Adams stabilises the club, gets us promoted next year playing some academy kids, the football is good and attendances are up, we get to a cup semi (or two). Would all the knockers on here still say we should have signed SOD?

No, if Micky Adams truly is a magician (and accomplishes what you say) then I'll admit I was wrong. I am fully behind Hoofy mark II, but it won't stop me making a song and dance about the shocking decision by the SUFC board.

 

[muttsnuts]

A little bit yes.

I love these kinbd of bullshit 'let's put it in context' comments. There are starving kids in Africa, so let's forget about the boards horrendous timing in sacking Blackwell. The polar bears are almost extinct, so let's let McCabe off scott free for appointment Robson. Sure what is going on in Brisbane is a tragedy, but it has fuck all to do with SUFC. Perspective, smersf-pective .... Birch/McCabe/the board have made a catastrophic decision regardless of war in the middle east, the US invading Iran and the collapse of the Euro (all of these being more likely than muttsnit suggestion).



No, if Micky Adams truly is a magician (and accomplishes what you say) then I'll admit I was wrong. I am fully behind Hoofy mark II, but it won't stop me making a song and dance about the shocking decision by the SUFC board.

Like i said, give the guy a chance, if he fails or doesn't reach your standards, then have a go...... but not until.

 

[Ollessendro]

Like i said, give the guy a chance, if he fails or doesn't reach your standards, then have a go...... but not until.

Your missing my point. I am not having a go at Hoofy (mark II) I am crticising the board, chair and CEO for making the wrong decision.

 

[muttsnuts]

Your missing my point. I am not having a go at Hoofy (mark II) I am crticising the board, chair and CEO for making the wrong decision.

The wrong decision in your eyes. Fair enough, i suppose we will have to agree to disagree, keep the faith, UTB.

 

[lenners]

We agreed a couple of weeks ago that we thought SO'D was the man to take us forward and Birch seemed to agree. Events would seem to suggest that he was interested to a point and we did talk to him but for whatever reason, it didn't happen. So far, the Board appeared to have acted as you suggested ?

Given that he seemingly turned us down, the Board would then have turned back to the applicants/short list. Of those we know about how many had the same kind of 'footballing' credentials, plus experience we were looking for ? Possibly none so we then had to look at the pros and cons of the rest and as you yourself said last week, Adams was the likeliest 2nd best candidate.

OK, you could argue that the Board changed their mind about what they were looking for, or panicked, but sometimes you have to settle for your 2nd choice and that may not be exactly what you said you were looking for. Adams has some skills that SO'D doesn't have, promotion from this division being one of them and who's to say he won't do better than SO'D would have done. I admit to being one of those who maybe got too lost up in the wonderful world of SO'D and his football but that wasn't the only criteria TB said they were looking for even though you're choosing to concentrate on it.

The club was very clear about the kind of football it was looking for, from Pembo up.
I don't have a massive problem with Adams but I am sick and tired of the garbage from the board.
Until they get a grip, United will not prosper as a club.