Those two points though

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bladesmanluke

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Wilder might leave it but I bet the hierarchy at the lane don't ,if any club goes down at villas expense they won't either
Personally I'd like to see united take legal action as I think.Hawkeye's explanation was a joke and a lie
And I'd like to.see them embarrassed in court and have to.admit they forgot to switch the fucking thing on
If they just admitted it we'd probably have moved on by now (somewhat). There will end up a legal battle here because they won't release the image stills they should have of the supposed "occlusion".
In other words, they're quite clearly lying and we have a case. I hope villa stay up by a point because then there'll be someone else suing Hawkeye too.
 

tomtheblade

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The thing is it's not 2 points. It's a goal. There's absolutely no way of showing that it would have led to a victory.
It may have, but just saying 'oh we would have won if this had happened' is not a convincing case to make.

If you want to add +1 to our GS column then by all means go ahead. But we can't pretend that we get to just give ourselves 2 points.
 

Niceguyeddie

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The thing is it's not 2 points. It's a goal. There's absolutely no way of showing that it would have led to a victory.
It may have, but just saying 'oh we would have won if this had happened' is not a convincing case to make.

If you want to add +1 to our GS column then by all means go ahead. But we can't pretend that we get to just give ourselves 2 points.
The game finished nil nil ,adding one goal on to our score makes it one nil
Its not difficult to prove in court
 

Ainsley Harriott

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What I found interesting yesterday was the Everton incident where Pick Ford had to claw the ball from going over the line after his howler. Now the angle that Hawkeye gave us was from the far post (the same side as Nyland was at when we scored). Pickford was blocking the ball from that camera and the goalpost was also in the way (as Hawkeye told us at the time). Yet the cameras yesterday managed to remove Pickford completely from the replay.

I didn't buy the excuse at the time and even more so now. It wasn't turned on and was negligent.

Whether a goal to us would have spurred them on or made us more likely to score is another argument. We missed out on a goal because somebody hadn't switched it on. I don't believe for a second that the view was obscured at all.
 

west_yorks_blade

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Like many others I regularly get in contact with the lovely folks at Hawkeye Via Twitter, asking for the occluded photos to be released.

Just to remind you (because they want this to all quietly fade away) this is what they said at the time, and have been silent on the subject ever since. I’d urge you all to keep the pressure up on them via Twitter, email, LinkedIn, Instagram or whatever.

It’s a disgrace that they won’t show us the facts in this matter. And it’s unbelievable that they aren’t being held to account by the powers that be. Meanwhile their site continues to display corporate bullshit about how great they are.

 

CW7

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If having technical calls against was a sport, we'd be winning it.
But it's no use crying for. We have played well, we need to show support and keep grinding, and we will see ourselves in europe.
 

Oldun

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But that doesn’t show any evidence as to why the table would look like that, including what would have happened at villa park, given that the final outcome was unknown when we scored. It’s a poor article and proves nothing.

Exactly! It's all pointless. The only thing that matters is the score at the end of the game. Mistakes have always been part of the game. Yes a mistake cost us a goal at Villa, but other teams have all had bad decisions against them as well. Time to let this one go.
 

derekacorah

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If anyone can find me a legal advocate who can prove beyond doubt that we would have won the game if that goal was allowed then I'll call them a liar. Far too many variables in football for there to be a solid legal argument. If it was last 10 seconds and no chance of a reply then we MIGHT have a case, but it wasn't so we haven't.
 

FMBlade1

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If anyone can find me a legal advocate who can prove beyond doubt that we would have won the game if that goal was allowed then I'll call them a liar. Far too many variables in football for there to be a solid legal argument. If it was last 10 seconds and no chance of a reply then we MIGHT have a case, but it wasn't so we haven't.

Replay the game from 43 minutes with us 1-0 up.

There is precedent for that happening in football:

 

west_yorks_blade

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Exactly! It's all pointless. The only thing that matters is the score at the end of the game. Mistakes have always been part of the game. Yes a mistake cost us a goal at Villa, but other teams have all had bad decisions against them as well. Time to let this one go.
I understand the let it go argument. I’ve seen the phrase a thousand times on here since the villa debacle.

However even if you feel that the result stands and there is nothing we can do about that, there is still a question of transparency & accountability.

We investigate crimes, we expect action on race hate messages against perpetrators We hold corporate bodies to account to ensure public protection etc. We don’t just say - meh what’s done is done, it’s in the past -sod it.

Whilst the Hawkeye farce is not in the same category of course, they are paid a lot of money to provide goal line technology. They boast of how great they are, they are quick to show where they got decisions right. We are entirely in their hands on this.

Apparently due to freak Circumstances not seen in 9000 games (a dubious claim in itself given how obvious it was), the ball was occluded from all 7 cameras.

Fine - let’s take that at face value - show us the proof. Show us the evidence that vindicates this claim. We won’t get the points back but the very least we should expect is transparency on this. Why should we let them off the hook for this assertion, why should we let this go?
 

Chabuddy G

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Exactly! It's all pointless. The only thing that matters is the score at the end of the game. Mistakes have always been part of the game. Yes a mistake cost us a goal at Villa, but other teams have all had bad decisions against them as well. Time to let this one go.
A 'bad decision' by an official, is totally different to the 100% certainnty, infallible, never before failed, goal line technology failing (or not being turned on)
 

Harrisblade

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I understand the let it go argument. I’ve seen the phrase a thousand times on here since the villa debacle.

However even if you feel that the result stands and there is nothing we can do about that, there is still a question of transparency & accountability.

We investigate crimes, we expect action on race hate messages against perpetrators We hold corporate bodies to account to ensure public protection etc. We don’t just say - meh what’s done is done, it’s in the past -sod it.

Whilst the Hawkeye farce is not in the same category of course, they are paid a lot of money to provide goal line technology. They boast of how great they are, they are quick to show where they got decisions right. We are entirely in their hands on this.

Apparently due to freak Circumstances not seen in 9000 games (a dubious claim in itself given how obvious it was), the ball was occluded from all 7 cameras.

Fine - let’s take that at face value - show us the proof. Show us the evidence that vindicates this claim. We won’t get the points back but the very least we should expect is transparency on this. Why should we let them off the hook for this assertion, why should we let this go?
Fair point.
If they can state that all the cameras were occluded then they must have seen that all the cameras were occluded.
Simply show the images that led them to that conclusion.
What could be easier?
 

derekacorah

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Replay the game from 43 minutes with us 1-0 up.

There is precedent for that happening in football:


It will never happen, it's the PL not some piss about U19's international game. If they were going to replay the match then something would have been announced by now, they are not going to turn around at the end of the season and say "oh yeah we screwed up in June, let's go back and sort it out now" are they?

I know you feel that you have to keep defending your initial overreaction but it's tedious.
 

Oldun

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A 'bad decision' by an official, is totally different to the 100% certainnty, infallible, never before failed, goal line technology failing (or not being turned on)

But it was a bad decision by an official! The ref has the final say on the pitch. Hawkeye is just there to help him.
 

Chabuddy G

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But it was a bad decision by an official! The ref has the final say on the pitch. Hawkeye is just there to help him.
Hawkeye isn't there to 'help' him. Hawkeye is where they get their decision from 100% of the time.

It didn't buzz for a goal - How much of a bellend would he look like if he called a goal and it hadn't crossed the line? He'd never ref in the PL ever again.

The technology 'failed' (wasn't turned on) and robbed us of a rightful 1 goal lead at half time, from which we've not lost since 2014.
 

Oldun

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Hawkeye isn't there to 'help' him. Hawkeye is where they get their decision from 100% of the time.

It didn't buzz for a goal - How much of a bellend would he look like if he called a goal and it hadn't crossed the line? He'd never ref in the PL ever again.

The technology 'failed' (wasn't turned on) and robbed us of a rightful 1 goal lead at half time, from which we've not lost since 2014.

From IFAB Laws of the Game

"11. Goal line technology (GLT)
GLT systems may be used to verify whether a goal has been scored to support
the referee’s decision."

Support being the key word here.
 

FMBlade1

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It will never happen, it's the PL not some piss about U19's international game. If they were going to replay the match then something would have been announced by now, they are not going to turn around at the end of the season and say "oh yeah we screwed up in June, let's go back and sort it out now" are they?

I know you feel that you have to keep defending your initial overreaction but it's tedious.

Uzbekistan got a replay for a World Cup Qualifier after the referee made a mistake in 2005, which was a pretty significant match.

Ireland got millions in compensation from FIFA after kicking up a fuss after the Henry handball in 2009.

The PL won't do anything now because we aren't taking legal action now, nor have we ruled out as Wilder has said/implied.

We will have to see where we end up then potentially proceed.
 

Chabuddy G

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From IFAB Laws of the Game

"11. Goal line technology (GLT)
GLT systems may be used to verify whether a goal has been scored to support
the referee’s decision."

Support being the key word here.
Sigh.

Again: It didn't buzz for a goal - How much of a bellend would he look like if he called a goal and it hadn't crossed the line? He'd never ref in the PL ever again.
 

Oldun

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Spurs should have had a penalty against Bournemouth. Maybe they could go halves on the legal costs?
 

Oldun

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Sigh.

Again: It didn't buzz for a goal - How much of a bellend would he look like if he called a goal and it hadn't crossed the line? He'd never ref in the PL ever again.

Well he hasn't come out of it looking great has he? Fact is that the linesman and ref still exist for a reason. Technology is only there to assist them. Sigh.
 

Chabuddy G

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Well he hasn't come out of it looking great has he? Fact is that the linesman and ref still exist for a reason. Technology is only there to assist them. Sigh.
Oliver? Yeah, no ones dragged him at all.
The VAR took a bit of flak for not overturning the decision but Oliver hasn’t at all.

Technology isn’t there to assist them ffs. Case in point being VAR has the final say, because Mike Riley has told the refs to go with the VAR call and use the monitors as little as they can to keep the game moving. How is that signifying that the onfield ref is in control?
 

Oldun

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There's a difference between decisions that are subjective and decisions that are 100% factually incorrect. You can't compare a blatant goal, with a pen/no pen decision.

It obviously wasn't blatant enough for the ref or linesman to see.
 

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