The we are not very good thread

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SwissBlade said:
Ollessendro a failure to meet last seasons achievement will not necessarily constitute failure.

I think what Revolution was saying was that we relied very heavily on Ched.
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Perhaps Rev can confirm, but I do not think he was necessarily saying that. Of course Evans was a massive factor, but also losing Quinn, Willo and Lowton were big blows too. If Rev was to say that we looked a shadow of the team we were without Evans though, I would find it hard to disgree with him!
 
A hybrid of both, really: the removal of Evans, our best player, is a convenient cut off point, but departures other than Evans' have also had an effect. We are not as good as we were and, surprise surprise, if you remove your best foward and all of your decent wide players goals are very hard to come by.

And without wishing to sound like an Owls fan, given the resources at our disposal and the size of our revenue compared to the other teams, any season in which we fail to get promoted is a failure.

1986-7 is a good comparison: take out Keith Edwards, bring in a few younger players from lower leagues to replace more experienced pros, keep some of the better performers, and you get a team that is similar but doesn't score nearly enough goals to challenge for promotion. We were 9th, and I would not be surprised to see a similar finish this season.
 
Spot on Rev. Throw in a sprinkling of Danny Wilson 2nd full season syndrome and we are looking at a mid finish for this year.
 
Ollessendro said:
Since Evans went down we have been very average.
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Au contraire, mon amis.
Since Evans "went down" he got fit, got his head almost right and became a third division goal scorer. It's since he got sent down that we have failed to win many games.

I am not so sure about this mythical 2nd season syndrome.
More likely it's to do with the clubs he is at giving it a go in his first season in charge and when that ends in agonising failure by the tightest of margins going on to tighten the belt in the second season cos they get cold feet. Consequently the quality of the playing squad is lower and the results are affected.
It is already happening with us - not sure changing the manager will make htat much of a difference.
 
Kenilworth said:
Au contraire, mon amis.
Since Evans "went down" he got fit, got his head almost right and became a third division goal scorer. It's since he got sent down that we have failed to win many games.

I am not so sure about this mythical 2nd season syndrome.
More likely it's to do with the clubs he is at giving it a go in his first season in charge and when that ends in agonising failure by the tightest of margins going on to tighten the belt in the second season cos they get cold feet. Consequently the quality of the playing squad is lower and the results are affected.
It is already happening with us - not sure changing the manager will make htat much of a difference.
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Not advocating a change of manager Kenny. Just pointing out some facts. Wilson has failed in most of his big seasons with clubs (often by very narrow margins as you point out) and then had the rug pulled. A lot of it is down to circumstances. But after a while you do wonder about the capanility of the manager. Can they motivate properly, do they bring in the right players, can they work on a budget, do they lose confidence of the players easily/quickly etc. We all love similies Kenny mi owd spadge, so here's one for you: It's a bit like me and women. I've been out with some right twats. The relationships have always ended up badly and I never speak to any ex's. I've been cheated on and done a fair bit of heart breaking too. It's always their fault though. Always them that fooked it up. Or perhaps I should actually question whether I am a complete dickhead (which the answer is a clear yes before any of you fookers jump to say it!).
 
Revolution Ollessendro There have been many big blows to the first team since Ched played his last game. But the biggest failing as I see it was that we could only play one way. Ched was an excellent player and we probably relied on his goals too much, we failed to plan adequately for his absence and we still haven't managed to get back into the groove we were in.

Now that we have got away from the Unbeaten run and Wilsons second season syndrome issues, we can probably debate this properly.

Considering that we lost Ched, I'm surprised that we didn't look at another striker in the style of Ched.
Pacey, good touch, finisher.

With Kitson, Blackman(only seen him once though), Porter and Kitson we have battlers/ target men

Cofie is pacey and clearly doesn't intend to be a target man, I can't really see him in the Ched mould.
Miller - haven't seen him play. So perhaps he is more ched-esque.

Ched clearly suited our style and our style suited ched, Hoskins looked similar to him, but never got the fitness with us.

One thing is for sure, we're not clicking all round.
 
SwissBlade said:
Now that we have got away from the Unbeaten run and Wilsons second season syndrome issues, we can probably debate this properly.
.......

One thing is for sure, we're not clicking all round.
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On the contrary Swiss, I am far from banging on about the 2nd season syndrome!!?

Oh and I am glad you are starting to around :p

VespaBlade said:
So have they!!
(tap in from 2 yards........)
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Does not really work, as I go on to state that in the next couple of setances. It is the whole point of the para. Perhaps the metaphorical nature flew over your head. Amd you forgot to change round at half time.

Bladesway said:
Did anyone else let out a groan when they saw this thread/author?
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Surprised it has taken you this long to post. Mind you, the 100 mark has come up pretty quick! I miss the likes of Trig on days like this. Even Dunc.
 
Ollessendro said:
It's a bit like me and women. I've been out with some right twats. The relationships have always ended up badly and I never speak to any ex's. I've been cheated on and done a fair bit of heart breaking too. It's always their fault though. Always them that fooked it up. Or perhaps I should actually question whether I am a complete dickhead (which the answer is a clear yes before any of you fookers jump to say it!).
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It's all about technique and ball retention, feller :)
 
Personally I think whoever gets over 85 points this season will be up. With only one or two additions we should be fine
 
Ollessendro said:
Surprised it has taken you this long to post. Mind you, the 100 mark has come up pretty quick! I miss the likes of Trig on days like this. Even Dunc.
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I realise you base success on how many responses you get to your posts. Hence many of them are based on pouring petrol onto an open fire. You have been lying in wait for a wobble hence your silence over the transfer window other self induced sabbaticals. What surprised me is that you pounced when we haven't lost a game yet this season. In fact only lost one in bloody ages. To me, thats one of the many flaws in your argument. I'm afraid a job at the top table in CID isn't awaiting when you come out with the "we're not very good" malarky. We are in League One, hence I would think it was given we aren't very good. We have had to sell most of our decent players and have had the misfortune to get one banged up. Almost all of this is against the Managers wishes. Do you really think he wants to sell Quinn? Because its pretty much all out of his hands I'm prepared to give the bloke the benefit of the doubt. That and the fact that he has done pretty much nothing wrong since he came in.

I admit openly to not reading the entire post you made because to be honesst they are so bloody boring. But the gist of it seemed to be we were shit and the manager was to blame. Anyone who disagreed with you was lambasted as a fool with absolutely no grounds to argue with your greater intellect. If I missed anything out please feel free to correct me.

Long and short of it is we are where we are. Its down to McCabe whether we get the funds to get out but with the Manager we have in charge at least we stand a chance. Out of interest and assuming you want him gone to prove yourself right, who would you put in charge? I'm guessing even you may rule yourself out for this posting although I wouldn't 100% bank on you powers of delusion.
 
Bladesway said:
I realise you base success on how many responses you get to your posts. Hence many of them are based on pouring petrol onto an open fire. You have been lying in wait for a wobble hence your silence over the transfer window other self induced sabbaticals. What surprised me is that you pounced when we haven't lost a game yet this season. In fact only lost one in bloody ages. To me, thats one of the many flaws in your argument. I'm afraid a job at the top table in CID isn't awaiting when you come out with the "we're not very good" malarky. We are in League One, hence I would think it was given we aren't very good. We have had to sell most of our decent players and have had the misfortune to get one banged up. Almost all of this is against the Managers wishes. Do you really think he wants to sell Quinn? Because its pretty much all out of his hands I'm prepared to give the bloke the benefit of the doubt. That and the fact that he has done pretty much nothing wrong since he came in.

I admit openly to not reading the entire post you made because to be honesst they are so bloody boring. But the gist of it seemed to be we were shit and the manager was to blame. Anyone who disagreed with you was lambasted as a fool with absolutely no grounds to argue with your greater intellect. If I missed anything out please feel free to correct me.

Long and short of it is we are where we are. Its down to McCabe whether we get the funds to get out but with the Manager we have in charge at least we stand a chance. Out of interest and assuming you want him gone to prove yourself right, who would you put in charge? I'm guessing even you may rule yourself out for this posting although I wouldn't 100% bank on you powers of delusion.
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Made me chuckle. You claim that I am the bombastic fool!? You do not read my post, yet you spend the time to write out a detailed post. If you had actually read my post, my responses and the thread you would have seen me lay out some facts and opinions, then a reasonable debate ensue. However you cannot get beyond your amatuer psychological peg-holing. You were right about one thing though, my greater intelect was shinging through a lot of the time. . As for the boring comment, well kettle and black and all that.

I have never called for the sacking of Wilson. I am just stating we are a sinking ship and he is powerless to stop it. It's a bit like having a man with several failed businesses behind him in charge of a bank that is really in the shit.
 
So, answer the one real question then, what would you do? Who would you appoint to solve all our ills?

Where I really am scratching my head is having taken the time to read and read again your many opinions (I wouldn't wish to be misinformed you know) you seem to be good at telling everyone we are in the shit but not very good at saying what constructively we could do to get out of it.

I don't see a lot wrong apart from the blindingly obvious which is our fall from grace has left us skint. You can go back to January 2007 (if I have my calendar right) when we signed a load of crap and not a lot of quality then capitulated when it was in fact easier to stay up. Now even you haven't invented time travel that I am aware of so failing that we are all in the shit together but now at least we have the big wages out the club. With DW in charge we have a chance of going up although it is far from a given. There, thats where we are. Whats different in your world?
 



We are only a couple of signings from being ok. That would be the priority. We need more creativity in midfield. We need more width and more options. Wilson has to bring in another wing man (though hopefully this Gallagher chap might start to play). Wilson has an eye for a loan deal (Matty Philips for example ..... imgaine having him back) so I hope for that. We desperately need someone who can either stratch defences with pace (like Philips) or create something from skill (like Willo or Quinn). I have already stated a bunch of things I would do, in response to bartman asking the same question as (dead ball practice in training, work on discipline, attack teams from the off, stop persisting with dross, give the young lads a chance) etc. I think that Wilson should get his 2 best strikers and give them a run. I think I would try Kitson and Blackwell. The experienced battering ram and the younger, quicker dangerous fella. If that is the bet combo, then give them a bit of a run (though they should be hauled off if not pulling their weight/tired/it's not working). Wilson could also try making substitutions earlier in the game, when it is clear that it is not working. Realistically players need at least 10-15 mins to have an impact, so bring them on before.

I am behind Wilson. I repeat for the tenth time I do not want him to be sacked. I cannot think of a better replacement we can bring in. That said, I cannot see us getting out of the division this season. I think we are stuck in this godforsaken league for at least 2 seasons (but probably more).
 
As a result of RS feed on BladesPlayer being unreliable on Saturday, I spent a lot of the game listening to Radio Cider and getting the Yeovil commentary.

They made a few interesting points about us:

1) That we're not as good as they expected.
Not sure if the same guys watched us last season, but clearly we're not as experienced as last season and we've not hit the ground running, we're in rebuild mode. They expected us to be better, but they said that we weren't as balanced as MK Dons, Bristol Rovers or even Bournmouth (they've lost to all three). Fair point, we appear a long way off the finished product

2) We effectively played 4-2-4
Because they saw us line up with, what they class as two strikers on the wings, we were playing with 4 strikers and they expected a more attacking threat from us.

3) We have a physical presence.
This makes a refreshing change from last season, I thought that we got bullied a lot last year by the likes of Huddersfield, Wednesday, Stevenage to name a few. We're clearly prepared to get stuck in this season but as I said in the shoutbox on saturday, perhaps they were just a bunch of ponces and were a soft touch

4) We're a danger in the air
Considering how crap we are at set pieces I was surprised to hear this so early on. I get the impression then, that by looking at the likes of Cresswell, Kitson, Macdonald, Collins, Harry, Blackman and perhaps McMahon, we look a tall side, so they assume we're good in the air. So far this season, Collins has been a threat from Corners (when we hit the target men), so this is again good news as it means that we should be competing.

Its difficult for me to assess as I've only see the Bournmouth game so far, but perhaps others can comment better
 
SwissBlade said:
As a result of RS feed on BladesPlayer being unreliable on Saturday, I spent a lot of the game listening to Radio Cider and getting the Yeovil commentary.

They made a few interesting points about us:

1) That we're not as good as they expected.
Not sure if the same guys watched us last season, but clearly we're not as experienced as last season and we've not hit the ground running, we're in rebuild mode. They expected us to be better, but they said that we weren't as balanced as MK Dons, Bristol Rovers or even Bournmouth (they've lost to all three). Fair point, we appear a long way off the finished product

........

4) We're a danger in the air
Considering how crap we are at set pieces I was surprised to hear this so early on. I get the impression then, that by looking at the likes of Cresswell, Kitson, Macdonald, Collins, Harry, Blackman and perhaps McMahon, we look a tall side, so they assume we're good in the air. So far this season, Collins has been a threat from Corners (when we hit the target men), so this is again good news as it means that we should be competing.

Its difficult for me to assess as I've only see the Bournmouth game so far, but perhaps others can comment better
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Playing right into Olle's hands!? We're overrated and not very good!? ;)

On a serious note I think that the set pieces were much better. They must have worked on this and Wilson and coaching staff should take some credit. Gallagher should take credit for delivering them. We scored from a corner, troubled their keeper and had a few headed chances from what I remember. This is a postive factor and an improvement. As we are streuggling to score goals, yet we look fairly solid defensively, then scoring goals from set pieices could be a really important factor this season*.



* Keep it tight and nick a goal from a corner/free kick - Blackwell style!!? :confused:
 
Ollessendro said:
Playing right into Olle's hands!? We're overrated and not very good!? ;)

On a serious note I think that the set pieces were much better. They must have worked on this and Wilson and coaching staff should take some credit. Gallagher should take credit for delivering them. We scored from a corner, troubled their keeper and had a few headed chances from what I remember. This is a postive factor and an improvement. As we are streuggling to score goals, yet we look fairly solid defensively, then scoring goals from set pieices could be a really important factor this season*.



* Keep it tight and nick a goal from a corner/free kick - Blackwell style!!? :confused:
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Yet we maintain our unbeaten record even though we're not playing well
Win is the only thing that matters when you're playing shite...

Surely after over one season and with his own team, its unfair and disrespectful to Wilson to be calling it someone elses style. Surely, its Wilsons style now :)
 
We are fookin shite ..................................But ............the saving grace is we are in the 3rd Division and its full of shite.....so we don't look as bad as we are.
 
beightonblade said:
We are fookin shite ..................................But ............the saving grace is we are in the 3rd Division and its full of shite.....so we don't look as bad as we are.
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The mere fact that we're in the 3rd division makes us look as bad as we are :)
 
beightonblade said:
We are fookin shite ..................................But ............the saving grace is we are in the 3rd Division and its full of shite.....so we don't look as bad as we are.
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More sense in this post than all the others put together. No good banging on about being a couple of signings away from being a decent team, we are not, but even if we were Wilson is incapable of bringing in the right players. long hard season ahead lads, Wilson out.
 
chipsncake said:
More sense in this post than all the others put together. No good banging on about being a couple of signings away from being a decent team, we are not, but even if we were Wilson is incapable of bringing in the right players. long hard season ahead lads, Wilson out.
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Can't work out if you are being sarcastic or you are actually being serious
 



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