The scouting team

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PeteBlade

PeteBlade

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Time to tie these people down to the CLUB and not the MANAGER so we're not in the farcical situation of needing to find a new Head Scout in pre season when we should already have people in place and they should already be doing their job now.

It works for Stoke, for Southampton and for Swansea.

It shouldn't be difficult for one of the host of property developers and local businessmen who run the football club to put this plan into motion.

Time to start thinking long term and not replacing the job lot every season when we replace the manager.
 



PeteBlade said:
Time to tie these people down to the CLUB and not the MANAGER so we're not in the farcical situation of needing to find a new Head Scout in pre season when we should already have people in place and they should already be doing their job now.

It works for Stoke, for Southampton and for Swansea.

It shouldn't be difficult for one of the host of property developers and local businessmen who run the football club to put this plan into motion.

Time to start thinking long term and not replacing the job lot every season when we replace the manager.
Click to expand...

Pete , we all know that any business or commercial acumen our chairman and board members have in there associated professions , just go flying out of the window , as soon as they step over the reception threshold at BDTBL. They act like they haven't the brains they were born with , and I just cannot see anything changing .

Status Quo is what they have always liked at the land . The thing is even Wilder may get worn down sooner rather than later with our lot .

UTB
 
PeteBlade said:
Time to tie these people down to the CLUB and not the MANAGER so we're not in the farcical situation of needing to find a new Head Scout in pre season when we should already have people in place and they should already be doing their job now.

It works for Stoke, for Southampton and for Swansea.

It shouldn't be difficult for one of the host of property developers and local businessmen who run the football club to put this plan into motion.

Time to start thinking long term and not replacing the job lot every season when we replace the manager.
Click to expand...


Couldn't agree more but Wilder said in interview that " we are in discussions and close to getting over the line with someone we know quite well". Suppose that doesn't necessarily mean it's the manager's choice, bet it is though.
 
Bit of a tough one this.
On the one hand it's great if those scouts do a great job at unearthing the players that fit the needs of the club, but on the other if the manager has little trust in them and wants his own trusted team then what do you do?

I'm not sure of the systems Swansea, Southampton, Watford employ for example, but it seems the manager is just about given players to sort out. Because of this surely those doing the hiring for them are football people, with a good knowledge of the game.
We are over run with businessman and accountants, where is our expertise? If we are looking at hiring ex managers or people with knowledge of the game in executive roles then great. But that's the only way I see a recruitment committee or whatever it's going to be called working.

We need to be making more of the continent. It's a larger pool of talent, with a smaller sized pro game meaning there is a lot of talent not being picked up. I want us to have a far reaching scouting network that can look further than an hours drive from the lane!
 
Woodwardfan said:
Couldn't agree more but Wilder said in interview that " we are in discussions and close to getting over the line with someone we know quite well".
Click to expand...

So Billy Dearden rides again - only joking. :D

Seriously the club's preferred playing style is not all that variable -managers who step outside that have to have instant success or they are down the road pretty fast so it would rather lend itself to the scouting operation being sourced for the club rather than the manager - especially with the manager-go-round we have had in recent years.

High time they did something about scouting or its another dollop of compensation to find and us without a set-up for new players every time we change the manager. It should be easier to do than finding a Director of Football.
 
Good thread.

There has to be a plan to sign players to fit a system of playing and also have regard to the balance of the squad already in place. This 'Technical Committee' is perhaps just a safeguard for the full Board to ensure the signings fit the profiles of whatever overall strategy the club have in place and also to ensure there are no more Coutts' or Hammonds joining us. It has to be the manager's responsibility to decide how many big lads we need, how many centre halves, whether the next striker is pacy or big or both, and so on.

It's worth considering playing the same system at all levels of the club so that players stepping up a level can do so more easily. Certainly the culture of the club should be that of the first team manager and his coaches and the same standards of behaviour, professionalism and commitment at all levels.
 
Woodwardfan said:
Good thread.

There has to be a plan to sign players to fit a system of playing and also have regard to the balance of the squad already in place. This 'Technical Committee' is perhaps just a safeguard for the full Board to ensure the signings fit the profiles of whatever overall strategy the club have in place and also to ensure there are no more Coutts' or Hammonds joining us. It has to be the manager's responsibility to decide how many big lads we need, how many centre halves, whether the next striker is pacy or big or both, and so on.

It's worth considering playing the same system at all levels of the club so that players stepping up a level can do so more easily. Certainly the culture of the club should be that of the first team manager and his coaches and the same standards of behaviour, professionalism and commitment at all levels.
Click to expand...
New managers often want their own people (a no.2, fitness coach,defence coach etc) I presume this includes a scout, which means when the manager goes they all go, just seems its the way, but it sounds ok.
 
How much of the scouting staff actually change other than the head scout?
 
PokerBlade said:
How much of the scouting staff actually change other than the head scout?
Click to expand...


Most clubs have scouts on an expenses only basis watching players initially before the management team gets really involved - I know three ex pros who do this - a new manager may top that up or replace some but the counting system doesn't suddenly stop on a change of manager. A head scout can't watch every player, otherwise for example, how would he run a newsagents?
 
Sean Thornton said:
Most clubs have scouts on an expenses only basis watching players initially before the management team gets really involved - I know three ex pros who do this - a new manager may top that up or replace some but the counting system doesn't suddenly stop on a change of manager. A head scout can't watch every player, otherwise for example, how would he run a newsagents?
Click to expand...

I know people do the very low level of scouting where they'll go to a game in Scotland in exchange for the cost of a ticket and a half-time pie. What I don't know is quite how the ladder works. Presumably there are levels between head scout and the randoms that watch Alfreton for us. For instance, does a Turnbull/Simon Clough come to a club with a network of scouts he uses for recommendations, do scouts work for several clubs at a time or are some on an exclusive basis. That sort of thing.
 
The scouting situation really does need sorting. The most important part of a football club is players.Everything else can be brilliant but if the players are shit we will do fuck all. Now a good scouting system finds good players early in their career lower down the leagues, not old has beens on there way down looking for one last payday. For me for us to be a successful football club scouting and player recruitment which obviously go hand in hand need to be a damn sight better than they have been
 
PokerBlade said:
I know people do the very low level of scouting where they'll go to a game in Scotland in exchange for the cost of a ticket and a half-time pie. What I don't know is quite how the ladder works. Presumably there are levels between head scout and the randoms that watch Alfreton for us. For instance, does a Turnbull/Simon Clough come to a club with a network of scouts he uses for recommendations, do scouts work for several clubs at a time or are some on an exclusive basis. That sort of thing.
Click to expand...
I don't know any of our specifics but I've read about what Moyes was doing at Everton and, from what I can remember, the 'random' scouts put reports in and if they're favourable, a more senior scout will then have a look at the player. Depending on what the player is (youth, potential replacement, one for now etc), if the senior scout rates them they're then watched by one of Moyes' assistants, or the youth team manager or, in some cases, Moyes himself.

Records are kept of everyone they watch and updated if they watch them again. The players are all categorised and in some cases they will watch a young player over a long period of time and they do proper due diligence on all of them; what type of person is he, is his background stable, has he got dodgy mates etc.

They were very proactive and would identify current first team players who were likely to move on to a bigger club and have several potential replacements lined up for when it happened.
 
BushBlade said:
I don't know any of our specifics but I've read about what Moyes was doing at Everton and, from what I can remember, the 'random' scouts put reports in and if they're favourable, a more senior scout will then have a look at the player. Depending on what the player is (youth, potential replacement, one for now etc), if the senior scout rates them they're then watched by one of Moyes' assistants, or the youth team manager or, in some cases, Moyes himself.

Records are kept of everyone they watch and updated if they watch them again. The players are all categorised and in some cases they will watch a young player over a long period of time and they do proper due diligence on all of them; what type of person is he, is his background stable, has he got dodgy mates etc.

They were very proactive and would identify current first team players who were likely to move on to a bigger club and have several potential replacements lined up for when it happened.
Click to expand...

Exactly. One of the guys I know has scouted for Everton.
 



David Lee's first touch said:
Would be a good set up to follow and not that difficult to do. You only have to look on here, some of the player suggestions over the past few seasons have been great shouts and from quite a few different posters aswell.
Click to expand...
There's plenty of ex players and qualified coaches who'd do it. I did it once, with a bloke who knew what he was doing and I realised that I didn't know half as much as I thought I did.
 
Sean Thornton said:
Most clubs have scouts on an expenses only basis watching players initially before the management team gets really involved - I know three ex pros who do this - a new manager may top that up or replace some but the counting system doesn't suddenly stop on a change of manager. A head scout can't watch every player, otherwise for example, how would he run a newsagents?
Click to expand...

Ironically I know a sports agent who is also a scout, conflict of interest much?!
 
derekacorah said:
Ironically I know a sports agent who is also a scout, conflict of interest much?!
Click to expand...
I think that's fairly common these days. They use their scouting abilities to find potential clients. Some clubs recognise that not all agents are cunts and prefer to deal with certain agents who are professional and give their clients good advice without taking the piss.
 
Sean Thornton said:
"Crowd favourite"

"International scout"

Mmmmm.
Click to expand...

Are you American? They don't do irony either.

Actually the 'international' bit is true. IIRC he covers Italy, Switzerland and France for Citeh and has few more Air Miles than most.
 
I should coco said:
Are you American? They don't do irony either.

Actually the 'international' bit is true. IIRC he covers Italy, Switzerland and France for Citeh and has few more Air Miles than most.
Click to expand...

It seems you don't either. :)
 
Gannon is listed as covering France on Citeh's website while famous loan player Andy " how shit was I" Sayer is also listed as a scout!
 
Woodwardfan said:
Good thread.

There has to be a plan to sign players to fit a system of playing and also have regard to the balance of the squad already in place. This 'Technical Committee' is perhaps just a safeguard for the full Board to ensure the signings fit the profiles of whatever overall strategy the club have in place and also to ensure there are no more Coutts' or Hammonds joining us. It has to be the manager's responsibility to decide how many big lads we need, how many centre halves, whether the next striker is pacy or big or both, and so on.

It's worth considering playing the same system at all levels of the club so that players stepping up a level can do so more easily. Certainly the culture of the club should be that of the first team manager and his coaches and the same standards of behaviour, professionalism and commitment at all levels.
Click to expand...


That idea works great in theory but if the club is too trigger happy (which ours is) then it falls down especially when we’re so hell bent on each managerial appointment being chalk to cheese to chalk to cheese. We had a strategy of that sort in place under Clough and it lasted all of about 18 months.
 



Our scouting network, of lack of one, has been a huge issue for decades. It's the one area we seem to have never invested in. When's the last time we brought in a foreign player, for instance?
 
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