The owners

[McGoaldrick]

Should they take some of the blame?

We backed out of deals for,

Maupay
Watkins
Cash

Can't help but think of we had those 3 in the bag we'd be strides above our current level.

Not in the slightest - they’ve spent 110 million over 3 transfer windows, more money than has ever been spent at this club. We are in a pandemic and they still spent 50 this summer + offering improved contracts to everyone that performed well last year.

We’ve been over the moon with most of the signings. In hindsight they’ve not all worked out but both us as fans & the owners looked at the transfers and expected them to work. And we are still relatively financially stable. I’m sure there will be relegation clauses in the contracts to protect the club.

Not their fault the players have dropped off and/or aren’t performing this season...

Also, don’t think we really pulled out of Watkins, Cash and Maupay deals. Watkins went to Villa for 33 mil and 70k a week 5 year deal. That’s roughly 18 mil on wages. There’s no shame in not being able/prepared to match that. We’d be even more up in arms if we spent that 50 mil on the kid and he had no service and was standing around like Brewster

 

[essyoueffsee]

Not in the slightest - they’ve spent 110 million over 3 transfer windows, more money than has ever been spent at this club. We are in a pandemic and they still spent 50 this summer + offering improved contracts to everyone that performed well last year.

We’ve been over the moon with most of the signings. In hindsight they’ve not all worked out but both us as fans & the owners looked at the transfers and expected them to work. And we are still relatively financially stable. I’m sure there will be relegation clauses in the contracts to protect the club.

Not their fault the players have dropped off and/or aren’t performing this season...

Also, don’t think we really pulled out of Watkins, Cash and Maupay deals. Watkins went to Villa for 33 mil and 70k a week 5 year deal. That’s roughly 18 mil on wages. There’s no shame in not being able/prepared to match that. We’d be even more up in arms if we spent that 50 mil on the kid and he had no service and was standing around like Brewster

Out of interest, how do you know his exact wages?

 

[robbiez666]

How can you blame the owner for sensible management of the club?

He's given Wilder more money that any of us expected
He's keeping out of football matters, so it's Wilder who picks the targets
He tried to bring in Van Winckel but Wilder was not having it
I suspect Retsos and Zickovic were via VW's influence. They were hardly used. Even when bloody Rodwell had a runout.
He either backs Wilder and allows him to recruit or sacks him. He can't make him sign foreign players.

The wage situation is to protect the club. The fact we're shopping in a corner shop and not a supermarket is the manager's decision.

 

[SWB]

Give over. Why is it that every post thats negative to Wilder is automatically a Pig??
I’m entitled to my opinion.

you mean o pig nion don't you

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

I'd argue that's exactly what we did last season, went toe to toe, almost qualified for Europe, with one of the smallest, if not the smallest,wage budgets.

Problem is, tactically we havent evolved. We have been worked out, with no plan b.

True. Also, last season we ran across a tightrope and took the glory. That took every piece of luck going our way. This season, we've fell off it!

 

[Sizablade]

1) Relegation pay cut clauses.
2) Offloading players in the event of relegation.
3) The hundred million quid that the bottom team in the Premier League gets.
4) The parachute payments.

These four things together mean that it would have been less of a risk to increase our wage ceiling than some have suggested.

I wonder if other teams have these ridiculous binary arguments within their fanbase, whereby anyone suggesting that something should be done differently is presented with an argument that shows the extreme opposite of what they’re suggesting?

It’s like the only alternative to Wilder is Sam Allardyce, the only alternative to McCabe was Chansiri, the only alternative to paying a (relative) pittance in wages is to set fire to fifty pound notes and watch the club do a Pompey.

The other way isn’t always the poor opposite. Use your imagination, maybe.

Get what your saying but you don't have to use your imagination. All the teams mentioned have done what many are suggesting and lived above their means. Cant think of many that have blown millions out of their budget and come out ok.

 

[Le Cynique]

Get what your saying but you don't have to use your imagination. All the teams mentioned have done what many are suggesting and lived above their means. Cant think of many that have blown millions out of their budget and come out ok.

But this is exactly my point. Paying peanuts is a false economy as we’ll get relegated and it’ll damage the club and our reputation. At some point we’ll have to start paying the going rate if we want to compete, whether Wilder or the fanbase like it or not.

 

[ComedyClub]

Should they take some of the blame?

We backed out of deals for,

Maupay
Watkins
Cash

Can't help but think of we had those 3 in the bag we'd be strides above our current level.

No? The owners have invested 130m and more into the squad, first team facilities and other bits and pieces. Wilder takes the blame for the transfers, and the scouting team alongside him.

 

[Sizablade]

But this is exactly my point. Paying peanuts is a false economy as we’ll get relegated and it’ll damage the club and our reputation. At some point we’ll have to start paying the going rate if we want to compete, whether Wilder or the fanbase like it or not.

I understand your point. But my point is we just can't afford it, however much fans want top top players, you have to pay top top dollar and unfortunately we don't have an owner with bottomless pockets. Stick to your budget, that's why you have one.

 

[Wincobank S9 Blade]

We weren't going to complete with the wages Villa and Brighton were offering.

Sad times when we can’t compete with Brighton

 

[Rob86]

There are 4 questions I’d like to ask the owners if there is another one of the open forums, and they would be:

1) Is it a decision of the board or management to only scout in the UK ?
2) Who identified the targets we have signed this season ?
3) How many of our signings were first choice targets ?
4) When negotiations aren’t successful with a player, who takes the decision that they aren’t worth the money/affordable ?

The answers may give us a clue as to what the dynamics are within the club.

 

[robbiez666]

There are 4 questions I’d like to ask the owners if there is another one of the open forums, and they would be:

1) Is it a decision of the board or management to only scout in the UK ?
2) Who identified the targets we have signed this season ?
3) How many of our signings were first choice targets ?
4) When negotiations aren’t successful with a player, who takes the decision that they aren’t worth the money/affordable ?

The answers may give us a clue as to what the dynamics are within the club.

I'd say 1 is obviously not the board given Zickovic and Retsos clearly weren't Wilder's signings, and probably Berge. Also Beerschot.

 

[Le Cynique]

I understand your point. But my point is we just can't afford it, however much fans want top top players, you have to pay top top dollar and unfortunately we don't have an owner with bottomless pockets. Stick to your budget, that's why you have one.

You don’t understand my point, because I’m not suggesting we pay Man U, Chelsea or Man City levels of salary. But expecting to bring in players on less than other teams who aspire to stay in the division are willing to pay just doesn’t work.

If we want to be an established Premier League team, with the increased revenue that comes with it (better merch sales, more money from domestic and international TV rights, better sponsors, etc.) we simply have to put the money in to do so.

 

[Chilttheblade]

Absolutely not they’ve given Wilder more than enough money to at least win a single game of premier league football and let’s not forget it was “our best ever transfer window”.

You can aportion blame how you like between the players and Wilder but I don’t think the board should be brought into this. We don’t create anything so I doubt Watkins would score too many.

To me it comes down to players underperforming slightly and Wilder playing the same system over and over again which oppositions are more than comfortable playing against with no plan b.

I'm not sure.
I think the mess we are in is down to the overall management of the club. I do not think the Board are football people they are finance people, so they have placed too much reliance on Wilder.
There is little depth in the Management structure, don't forget United have come from £20 mils turnover company to £120 mils overnight and it takes time and commitment to additional long term resources to be a be an all round Premier League club.
I suspect that they have relied on Wilder and Agents to run the playing side of the club. This is clearly cheaper but risky as has been proven as Wilder doesn't have the overall skills to operate at this level.
In my opinion they should have had a "Sporting Director" to control/ work alongside Wilder.
I suspect that the Board do not want to raise the fixed costs associated with the club as the turnover returns to the £20 mils level so they will leave it to the manager.
They had a chance to consolidate but but selfishly to believe in this Messiah nonsense.

 

[Sizablade]

You don’t understand my point, because I’m not suggesting we pay Man U, Chelsea or Man City levels of salary. But expecting to bring in players on less than other teams who aspire to stay in the division are willing to pay just doesn’t work.

If we want to be an established Premier League team, with the increased revenue that comes with it (better merch sales, more money from domestic and international TV rights, better sponsors, etc.) we simply have to put the money in to do so.

And where do you suggest we get the money from?

 

[Snowflake]

That's exactly my point. Why?

Because the finance is not there.

 

[Athens Blade]

The owners should take blame for not sacking Wilder at least 7 games since.
Its fairly obvious he lost the dressing room after his comments away at Leicester last season.
& his obsession with picking Lundstram will return next match now his 3 game ban is up.
We owe Wilder nothing at all,get rid of him.

I’m sorry but when did he lose the dressing room after Leicester last year? Have you dreamt it up. Where is your evidence?

 

[Bladesince59]

So, which of the buys we have made over the past 18 months (since and including McBurnie) have actually added value to the team? I am struggling.

 

[Le Cynique]

And where do you suggest we get the money from?

Not spending £11m on Bogle and Lowe would be a start.

 

[essyoueffsee]

Not spending £11m on Bogle and Lowe would be a start.

Too early to judge them(inc. Brewster) imo

 

[Sizablade]

Not spending £11m on Bogle and Lowe would be a start.

But surely that's not the owners fault, which is what this thread is, and also doesn't answer where the money should come from.

 

[Le Cynique]

Too early to judge them(inc. Brewster) imo

We can’t afford to spend big money on potential whilst trying to get by on paying peanuts. It’s madness. The potential will fuck off to another club if we get relegated and they’re any good, leaving us with nothing.

But surely that's not the owners fault, which is what this thread is, and also doesn't answer where the money should come from.

It’s not the owners’ fault at all, I don’t think. It was Wilder who came out with the stuff about ‘spunking muneh’. As others have said, he’ll be given a budget to spend as he sees fit, dividing up transfer fees and salaries. We don’t pay the going rate for salaries so spending over £50m on a keeper, a couple of full backs and a striker who all show potential rather than apportioning more of that budget toward salaries of more proven players is complete madness. We’re not in a position to invest in talent for the future given this is just our second season in the top flight, and boy does it show.

 

[AdamSufc1997]

Owners gave Wilder £100m+ to spend so not sure why the board should be blamed, we could/should have looked abroad for players but for some reason we don't want to

 

[Barry Butlin]

It’s worth pointing out the Prince hasn’t put any money in since we’ve been in the Premier League!!

 

[dn5 shaun]

True. Also, last season we ran across a tightrope and took the glory. That took every piece of luck going our way. This season, we've fell off it!

luck ha ha, if we'd been half as lucky as villa last season we would have qualified for europe. We got no luck at all with VAR or referees, this team had to work extremely hard for every point that the rest of the league begrudged us.

 

[essyoueffsee]

We can’t afford to spend big money on potential whilst trying to get by on paying peanuts. It’s madness. The potential will fuck off to another club if we get relegated and they’re any good, leaving us with nothing.

Hahaha what? you just contradicted yourself there.

Besides I didn't say anything about potential. I think it's too early to judge a new signing, aged 20 or 30.

 

[1889]

The problem is, we can afford the transfer fees, but can’t commit to the wages. So we are left having to gamble on potential, because only young lads at the start of their career or Championship players will accept wages that fit our structure. I dont think our owners can be criticised, they’ve provided the funds, the fact that our transfer dealings have produced such poor returns is not their fault. It is however, something that needs to be seriously restructured.

They’ve supplied over £130m in transfer funds but our Premier League adventure has currently raked in £300m + including parachute payments so I think they’re still in a healthy financial position

 

[Le Cynique]

If it’s too early to judge them what is it they offer if not potential?

How did I contradict myself? We pay out big fees for unproven players who then take us down because their potential isn’t brought out in time to save us. We then go down and have to sell them because other teams can afford to have loads of potential players on their books and loan them out or develop them internally.

We needed players who can make a difference now. Next season is too late.

 

[ancientblade]

the simple fact is you cannot stay in the premier league if your only prepared to pay championship salaries and thats why were going down and west brom are coming with us norwich will be back down in 2022 their in the same boat

 

[Pedro Verde]

To me it comes down to players underperforming slightly

Have you watched the games ?
The form of the whole mid field has fallen off a cliff
You add into the equation Stevens doing the same JOC injured
There has only been Basham, Egan and to a lesser extent Baldock that have reached anything like the form of last season. That is not the only problem but to say slightly underforming is not at all accurate