The New Ownership

[Badger Blade]

Data is as only as good as the source it comes from and is only as good as the person trying to make sense of it. Crap data with a crap analyst = crap decisions being made and signing crap players.

It's not all equal and some measures are far more important than others depending on what in the squad needs to change and the tactics we're going to employ.

The key thing for this to work is communication between the data people, the owners, Bettis and Chris Wilder. Give Wilder a shortlist based on the data and budget and let him call the shots from there around who he wants and who he doesn't. Player A might tick all the stats boxes but might be a complete dick when Player C actually might be a better choice.

What can't happen is for a random bloke to turn up one day that Wilder wasn't expecting to see and being forced to put them in the line up - once the applecart is upset, there's probably no going back.

Not sure what the Grbic situation was for example but Christ alive we don't want that happening again any time soon. Straight off the plane and straight into picking the ball out of his net!

 

[SwissBlade]

This is what I can’t get past. After saying before Norwich game he’s made a few more positive comments but I still feel he was picked up on this comment….


View attachment 203612

I am really not sure how that 13 second soundbite can suggest that he has a negative demeanour towards the new owners or the data approach. Theres not too much i can read into that, but i think i contributed my comments to the home grown v international players thread that you set up.

Agree, like SwissBlade says there are many negatives, we can try it but if it doesn’t work for us we have to be careful not to lose the ability for the coaches and manager to override the computer even if it does say yes.

Be careful with how you misquote me... I didn't say that there ARE many negatives, in fact I listed some potential negatives that i saw, but i think it's also important to know what the negatives are with any project. Thats good business practice. There are also a lot of potential positives.

We could easily do an exercise with the negatives and identify how to mitigate against them. A risk assesment of sorts. I am sure they have done something similar. They'll have also done a similar exercise with the positives, to see how they could be exposed as negatives or potentially become negatives... It sounded from Bettis that its a learning curve

I don't think that the manager is being overridden. I don't see that level of micromanagement in the business were doing and if anything its the opposite. The manager seems to have more say




discussed but the overall tone of my post was one of positivity.

 

[N20 Blade]

Leeds, I agree, are a dangerous and attacking team. But Burnley, Plymouth aside, are dreadfully boring and dull to watch. I certainly wouldn't describe them as exciting, Sunderland on the other hand...

It’s not the wins that bother me as much, I expect them to be ‘ground out’ and some fans seem to like us doing it. I’d love to see us bulldoze and dominate a few games with some fast attacking football.

Leeds and Burnley have recently destroyed sides with performances that were exciting for the neutrals. We’ve failed to do that even against struggling sides.

Yes the squad was thin after an admirable rebuild and injuries abound. But there no excuses now. Seven in and a handful of young Accademy players proving they’ve got what it takes to challenge plus the two AI lads Jeff and Chucky.

 

[Blade56]

I am really not sure how that 13 second soundbite can suggest that he has a negative demeanour towards the new owners or the data approach. Theres not too much i can read into that, but i think i contributed my comments to the home grown v international players thread that you set up.

Be careful with how you misquote me... I didn't say that there ARE many negatives, in fact I listed some potential negatives that i saw, but i think it's also important to know what the negatives are with any project. Thats good business practice. There are also a lot of potential positives.

We could easily do an exercise with the negatives and identify how to mitigate against them. A risk assesment of sorts. I am sure they have done something similar. They'll have also done a similar exercise with the positives, to see how they could be exposed as negatives or potentially become negatives... It sounded from Bettis that its a learning curve

I don't think that the manager is being overridden. I don't see that level of micromanagement in the business were doing and if anything its the opposite. The manager seems to have more say




discussed but the overall tone of my post was one of positivity.

Sorry, slight misquote not intended. Just pointing out the AI is not the be all and end all. Tough reading how the new owners are relying/not relying on tech pans out and what mitigations they have or not in place when we know so little about them.

Good they’ve just gone with the two and openly suggested it’s an experiment to see how it pans out. But to test it fully they have to get chance like our Accademy players did to break into the first team for the ‘experiment’ to be tested.

As for the 13 seconds of Wilder, he just dunt sign foreigners Maybe he’s seen or will see the light.

 

[Pittsburg Blade]

Owners have done well with backing and in their nativity put Wilder on a long contract.


So this happened around Christmas then?

 

[The Crab]

Fair play to them. They’ve really backed Wiilder and the team.

Also pretty exciting that we’ve pulled a random Nigerian and Peruvian in to see what they’re all about. Be nice if we’ve unearthed the next Jay Jay okocha and claudio pizzaro

Data driven apparently so unless you’re an extra nerdy player of fm them you probably won’t have heard of them. But let’s see, that type of model might well pay off

 

[SwissBlade]

Sorry, slight misquote not intended. Just pointing out the AI is not the be all and end all. Tough reading how the new owners are relying/not relying on tech pans out and what mitigations they have or not in place when we know so little about them.

Good they’ve just gone with the two and openly suggested it’s an experiment to see how it pans out. But to test it fully they have to get chance like our Accademy players did to break into the first team for the ‘experiment’ to be tested.

As for the 13 seconds of Wilder, he just dunt sign foreigners Maybe he’s seen or will see the light.

I don't think anyone has suggested that AI is the be all and end all, where has the AI part come from? Is that part of the new data driven approach.

There are two links on the OS to the new players:

Christian checks in

An up-and-coming wide player has joined the Blades as a new transfer strategy takes United into the Bulgarian market.

www.sufc.co.uk

Boss Chris Wilder said: "Christian joins the club after being identified through our new data driven transfer strategy.

"We are discovering something new here and it may take time before we see some results, but we're open to the new methods and we're looking forward to working with Christian, and others, to see how far we can go with it."

Peruvian Blade

United's attacking options have been bolstered with the Blades beating the deadline after tapping into the South American market.

www.sufc.co.uk

On the signing, boss Chris Wilder commented: "With the collaborative way we work with regards signings, the options available to the club under the new ownership allows us to cast our net further afield.

"I've spoken previously about how we are looking to be more data driven with some of our targets, and we have explored the use of this to find players which were previously not on our radar.

"Jefferson has been identified using this strategy, he's a young lad who we're keen to develop."

Lots of mention of "data driven" but no AI mention, directly.

 

[Balham]

How many clubs lift silverware? Even the league cup is pretty much wrapped up by top 6 clubs these days.

Getting to be an established premier league side is our trophy

To back up your first point, here's the list of teams to have won each major competition in England in the last 10 years.

Premier League

Last 10 years: 4 clubs - Manchester City 6, Chelsea 2, Leicester City 1, Liverpool 1​

Last 15 years: 5 clubs - Manchester City 8, Chelsea 3, Manchester United 2, Leicester City 1, Liverpool 1​

FA Cup

Last 10 years: 5 clubs - Arsenal 3, Manchester City 2, Manchester United 2, Chelsea 1, Liverpool 1, Leicester City 1​

Last 15 years: 6 clubs - Arsenal 4, Manchester City 3, Chelsea 3, Manchester United 2, Liverpool 1, Leicester City 1, Wigan Athletic 1​

EFL Cup

Last 10 years: 4 clubs - Manchester City 5, Manchester United 2, Liverpool 2, Chelsea 1​

Last 15 years: 6 clubs - Manchester City 6, Manchester United 3, Liverpool 3, Chelsea 1, Swansea City 1, Birmingham City 1​

That means that 6 clubs have shared the last 30 major trophies. Even if the timeframe is extended back 5 years only Swansea, Birmingham (both EFL cup) and Wigan (FA Cup) get added: that's 9 clubs winning 45 trophies and of those 9, 4 have a total of five wins leaving 5 clubs sharing the other 40 competitions.

Last 30 titles: Manchester City 13, Chelsea 4, Liverpool 4, Manchester United 4, Arsenal 3, Leicester City 2
Last 45 titles: Manchester City 17, Chelsea 7, Manchester United 7, Liverpool 5, Arsenal 4, Leicester City 2, Birmingham City 1, Swansea City 1, Wigan Athletic 1

 

[Keen Blade]

Has Chris Wilder threatened to quit yet? The last time we tried to sign unknown players from abroad he threatened to quit unless the club got his targets in (overrated and vey expensive British lads). I suspect the new contract softened the blow a bit, or maybe he has actually changed and wants to embrace change. Here’s hoping!

Surely the new owners have satisfied themselves that CW is accepting of the direction in which they want to take the club BEFORE giving him a new contract.
In fact , I bet there are some terms in CW's contract which make it clear.
As successful businessmen , they will have thought long & hard about the nature of his departure in '21.
They will have taken account of the Prince's reasons for re-appointing him in '23.
They and the new board appear to be analytical people and I doubt they intend to get pushed around by CW or end up in the kind of relationship that the Prince tolerated.
In his RS interview the Prince admitted that he found it hard to control and say 'No' to CW. In my view , they were both emotional blokes.
The new lot are investing their own £ and probably also £ on behalf of others. They have an investment reputation to maintain.
Anyway , we'll see how things develop over the coming years.

 

[nopigfansintown]

The previous forrays in the foreign market signing unknown players ended in abject failure. Wilder was absolutely correct to point that out and to have the common sense to eschew it. It was a fire for transfer cash with none of the players brought in above him working out. It took until last season for us to extract any value via our connection with City Group (Souza signing). Those that we chose for our two managers (Wilder, Hecky, Slav) didn't work. Funnily enough scouting abroad is a tad more complex than picking players from a database something that all the United World clubss found to their cost..

It's common sense to scout the markets you know until you have the means to scout the players in the markets you don't. The level of sophistication that goes into the work at the likes of Liverpool, Brighton and Brentford knocks anything we've done into a cocked hat. We're talking about organisations that employ 100+ staff permanently to scout minor football markets. The new owners have come in with a goal of establishing "a best in class scouting network, data, and analytics" which, if true, will be revolutionary and nothing like anything Wilder, Heckingbottm or any other Sheffield United manager has ever had access too. If that's the case I'm personally all for it.With these two signing it begs the obvious question of what exactly was our method of scouting them? The only thing I've heard so far (early days of course) is that we've implemented some new technology above what we had before?

 

[Broomhall Blade]

Can we judge them next season if we finish in a European qualifying position?

We have to get promoted first for that to happen.
I'll stick by my 5 year bench mark.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

This window tells me that if we go up we won't fuck around in the summer. We might actually approach it seriously and efficiently.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

This window tells me that if we go up we won't fuck around in the summer. We might actually approach it seriously and efficiently.

I am old enough to remember people complaining we didn't sign players in the first few days of January

 

[Broomhall Blade]

How you took celebration from my post I’ll
Never know!

May be celebration was the wrong word back slapping might have been a better one.
Let's judge them in 5 years.
Not knocking them by the way they have certainly backed Wilder this window.

 

[Plymouthblade]

They’ve given Wilder what he wanted and they’ve said we are going to be using data to pick up players going forward. Wilder has to have learnt from first time round when he spat his dummy out with PA for trying the same. He won’t last long in management if he doesn’t.

They have put their money in they are well in their rights even though it’s not champ manager

 

[Plymouthblade]

Leeds, I agree, are a dangerous and attacking team. But Burnley, Plymouth aside, are dreadfully boring and dull to watch. I certainly wouldn't describe them as exciting, Sunderland on the other hand...

Oi argyle staying up less of that

 

[Plymouthblade]

Does not fit wilders choices I must say

 

[Plymouthblade]

Feels like buying a scratch card though

 

[BiggerBladeThanThou]

May be celebration was the wrong word back slapping might have been a better one.
Let's judge them in 5 years.
Not knocking them by the way they have certainly backed Wilder this window.

I did also say “time will tell”…? Listen, there’s no harm in giving out credit where it’s due. I’m sure if we made no signings then you and a lot of others would be at ‘em and not saying “let’s hold on a second, they’re only just getting their feet under the table, let’s see what happens after 5 years”…

 

[NotFallowfieldBlade]

I think with any new ownership there’s a bit of trepidation and anxiety, especially with a consortium, but so far so good! Got to say well done to them for signing 7 (seven) players in the JTW. Time will tell if they’re any good and promotion remains the objective but for me, the future feels bright.

Especially when you look over in S6 and see how that club is run. We can thank our lucky stars we weren’t clobbered with someone like Derek Chancer, although, I bloody love him. Keep it up Derek! Superb job.

""especially with a consortium""

I would much rather it be a cosortium than be at the whim of one crackpot who could wake up on any given day and go bankrupt or decide he cant be arsed any more like a chansiri

 

[KOPPO]

thankyou new sheffield united fc blades owners for getting the new signings in to strengthen the gaffers positive sufc great rebuild squad,,utb...

 

[Derek1889]

Great to see us backed. But also backed like we have been in Jan. Hopefully these are good signs and if we do get over the line they are prepared to go again. Although would still like them to be cautious. Don't want it screw us like last time

 

[Charlieblade]

The new owners have probably done a modern version of theology SWAT analysis. They see Wilders strength in building a strong spine, based on a healthy defence.
To prove the worth of their Advanced sports tech background, they buy a couple of young attacking players outside Wilders home grown focus. If those two lads fail, they have spent a little money, and worst case, they sell them for a bit more than they paid.

Let Wilder build from the back, and use COH clout and a high tech approach to find him some attacking players to score goals and supplement the squad.

The result should be a success, if Wider has the nous to buy into it. If the academy promise gets COH backing, that another source of first teamers,or profit for the club.

My only concern is it all seems a bit rushed for a team and a club like us. I have some faith in Wilder, but I can also see how ambitious and impatient the new owners are. Credit Wilder with some smarts if his initial noises are positive, but have a little faith in COH, who continue to make money from their core business, while rushing headlong into building a side that can hold its own in the EPL.

Are COH going for the Man Utd model to make money for their consortium, or will they follow the Leeds Utd model of American ownership, which is backed by US sporting expertise?

 

[MartBlade]

Wow - there are some strange views on Chris Wilder on this forum. We are lucky enough to have a manager who spends all day, every day putting his best efforts into advancing us as a club. He has proved that he is capable of not only taking us into the premier
League but also of competing when we get there. His focus is always on the next game and getting the best out of what we have. It’s remarkable that we are competing for top two given the thin squad that we started with this season and the injuries that we’ve had to deal with. Pretty much every player that he’s brought in this season has made us better and he’s rightly looked to bring in players that can fit into what we’re trying to achieve in the short term. I’m absolutely certain that he’s happy to see the club able to cast the net a bit wider with the new model… and if either of the two “AI” signings prove to be up to it, I’m sure he’ll use them.
I find it very strange that people see the club widening its approach to recruitment as something that Chris would have a problem with. I’m sure he’s delighted that he’s been fully backed and that the club are supplementing his immediate needs with a new approach.
Let’s all just revel in the fact we have a fantastic manager who happens to be a Blades fan…. Supplemented at last by an ownership who appear to have some financial clout and a plan for our future….. hallelujah !!

 

[BiggerBladeThanThou]

""especially with a consortium""

I would much rather it be a cosortium than be at the whim of one crackpot who could wake up on any given day and go bankrupt or decide he cant be arsed any more like a chansiri

Yeh, me too but there was a lot of anxiety on here about it.

 

[Gin&Juice]

Wilder isn’t a dinosaur. He knows he has to move with the times, he also knows how to manage a team, which players he can get the best out of and how to maximise the success of a team based on limitations.

Now, It might be that he doesn’t have any obstacles in his way to get the players he wants. Maybe he’s always wanted us to dowhat Brighton have done, maybe he wants us to stop being so conservative and absolutely dry bum teams, since we don’t have a small squad and have plenty of attacking options compared to December?

We needed quantity, we got quantity, but more quality than we would’ve got under the Prince.

 

[MagnifiqueShorehamStreet]

Does anyone know, if Des Taylor is still involved in our recruitment?Our recruitment seemed to improve, when he got involved.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Wilder isn’t a dinosaur. He knows he has to move with the times, he also knows how to manage a team, which players he can get the best out of and how to maximise the success of a team based on limitations.

Now, It might be that he doesn’t have any obstacles in his way to get the players he wants. Maybe he’s always wanted us to dowhat Brighton have done, maybe he wants us to stop being so conservative and absolutely dry bum teams, since we don’t have a small squad and have plenty of attacking options compared to December?

We needed quantity, we got quantity, but more quality than we would’ve got under the Prince.

I think in some people's heads we play 4 4 fucking 2 when we have just this year moved from the system that when it began was totally unique!

 

[LBA_Blade]

How many clubs lift silverware? Even the league cup is pretty much wrapped up by top 6 clubs these days.

Getting to be an established premier league side is our trophy

If you look at Bournemouth, Brentford, Brighton (top honour Charity shield), Crystal Palace, and Fulham removing the county cups that were about years ago and don’t really count as a major honours as they can’t compete in them. None of them 5 have won anything cup wise. Granted Fulham got to the final of the UEFA cup under Woy but they didn’t win it. That’s a 1/4 of the division where their biggest achievement is getting there and staying there. Some with new money, others with right time, right place. These are the types of teams we need to
be looking to dislodge if we want to prolong our stay next time around and not be yo yoing. I wouldn’t say it is impossible to do that either and there are others that could get dragged into the mix such as Wolves and more recently Everton too.

 

[Bladeloyal]

Does anyone know, if Des Taylor is still involved in our recruitment?Our recruitment seemed to improve, when he got involved.

Yes he is