The Ndiaye Paradox

[brownblade]

I just want to throw a little question out about Iliman Ndiaye.

I've read so many comments throughout the season from fans saying that we'd have been much better with Ndiaye, as we'd have kept the ball better etc.

However, I have a counter argument to this theory. Ndiaye has obviously struggled at Marseille and the dream move hasn't quite gone to plan and his productivity has significantly dropped since he left us. There are rumours that Marseille may offload in the summer.

Now, my point is this. Ligue 1 is considered an inferior league to the Premier League, but for a couple of teams including Marseille, but it is considered a better league than the Championship. So if Ndiaye has struggled for Marseille where he is surrounded by some top class players in a league inferior to the Premier League, then why would he have made a difference for us this season in the superior Premier League?

I don't think he's done that badly at Marseilles. I've only watched a handful of games but he's not the focal point for them, at all. He's often playing RW, sometimes RM in a 4 man midfield.

Seems like some people representing Marseille on Twitter are morons, but that goes for all clubs. When you see the Marseille crowd in full flow, it's hard to believe they're all impatient fools that have written him off etc.

For someone touted as doing badly he's certainly played a lot of football for Marseille (in his first season there), including a start in the Europa League Semi the other night.

 

[AWetFlannel]

I just want to throw a little question out about Iliman Ndiaye.

I've read so many comments throughout the season from fans saying that we'd have been much better with Ndiaye, as we'd have kept the ball better etc.

However, I have a counter argument to this theory. Ndiaye has obviously struggled at Marseille and the dream move hasn't quite gone to plan and his productivity has significantly dropped since he left us. There are rumours that Marseille may offload in the summer.

Now, my point is this. Ligue 1 is considered an inferior league to the Premier League, but for a couple of teams including Marseille, but it is considered a better league than the Championship. So if Ndiaye has struggled for Marseille where he is surrounded by some top class players in a league inferior to the Premier League, then why would he have made a difference for us this season in the superior Premier League?

Unless you argument is that he isn't as good as Benie Traore, it's not worth making. Every minute that Ndiaye plays instead of Traore/Osula/Archer/Brewster is a better minute for SUFC.

 

[Bell4]

I’d consider most of the championship superior to league 1 bar PSG.

I think most people wanted Ndiaye to stay because he’s the best player we have ever had, and by default would have given us a better chance. The general ‘paradox’ is irrelevant mind you, because he could have signed and got injured in the first game. His sale is not the reason we have gone down.

Best player we have ever had ?

That’s quite a statement

 

[steve26272]

I just want to throw a little question out about Iliman Ndiaye.

I've read so many comments throughout the season from fans saying that we'd have been much better with Ndiaye, as we'd have kept the ball better etc.

However, I have a counter argument to this theory. Ndiaye has obviously struggled at Marseille and the dream move hasn't quite gone to plan and his productivity has significantly dropped since he left us. There are rumours that Marseille may offload in the summer.

Now, my point is this. Ligue 1 is considered an inferior league to the Premier League, but for a couple of teams including Marseille, but it is considered a better league than the Championship. So if Ndiaye has struggled for Marseille where he is surrounded by some top class players in a league inferior to the Premier League, then why would he have made a difference for us this season in the superior Premier League?

What about this one, the Rick Astley paradox

If you ask Rick Astley for his copy of the movie Up, he cannot give it to you as he will never give you Up. However, in doing so he lets you down

 

[jt64]

It doesn't, but I like open rational conversation and debate and like to understand the logic behind some of the threads or posts that I read. I'm just throwing out a thought that I've not read or seen considered when it comes to the loss of Iliman.

Do I think we'd have stayed up if Berge and Ndiaye had stayed? No. Not a chance.

I don't think you realise just how little extra we would have needed to stay up. If Ndiaye allowed us to do the double over Forest and beat Luton at home, then had a Brewster-like level of availability apart from that, we'd be 17th right now.

 

[steve26272]

I don't think you realise just how little extra we would have needed to stay up. If Ndiaye allowed us to do the double over Forest and beat Luton at home, then had a Brewster-like level of availability apart from that, we'd be 17th right now.

'IF' doing a lot of heavy lifting there 64

You could put any one from Rice, Fernades, Guimares, Silva, Mac Allister in our team and we'd still be relegated -

we're only 4 goals scored behind Everton who have secured 48 points this season against our 16 points

5 goals behind Burnley

Mid/attack hasnt been the problem, having a u12's defence has

FWIW - had we kept Illy, the feel good factor would have given us momentum, but like Luton (Barkley/Townsend) over a 38 game season you need a team of EPL players, not one or 2 - we'd still have been relegated

 

[FinBlade]

Keeping Ndiaye and keeping everyone happy didn't seem an option.. Personally I also didn't like the idea loosing him for free after this PL season

I understand that some people are having hard time to let go, but it starts to look like an illness at this point..

 

[jt64]

'IF' doing a lot of heavy lifting there 64

I'm just going for what would be the smallest amount of changes that would be needed to put us into position to actually survive. For sure, we would still have had a lot of other problems, the point I'm making is that if he makes the difference when it matters then it doesn't need THAT much to completely change things. I'm definitely being selective I'll admit, but fine margins in the right places can make a huge difference. If he buries that chance that Traore missed at the City Ground, and then his defensive workrate prevents the chance that Wood took from ever happening, that's a 6 point swing in our favour. Don't think it's outlandish to say that is at least a possibility of something that could have happened.

 

[ekke287]

It doesn't, but I like open rational conversation and debate and like to understand the logic behind some of the threads or posts that I read. I'm just throwing out a thought that I've not read or seen considered when it comes to the loss of Iliman.

Do I think we'd have stayed up if Berge and Ndiaye had stayed? No. Not a chance.

We probably wouldn’t have stayed up no, but we would have had a much better chance, with that pressing from the front and attacking threat we held, which in turn eases up the pressure on defence equalling less goals conceded.

I’m going to put my neck out and say we also wouldn’t have been spanked so routinely, and dare I say we’d have won more games. McAtee would’ve been better also playing around quality players, same for Anel etc.

To replace Berge with Souza (who adds literally nothing) and Ndiaye with a misfiring McAtee and Hamer combined is stupid business.

We may have gone down yes, but we’d have some fight, and something to look forward to. Instead we have this shambolic embarrassment of a season, no idea where we go from here and a threadbare squad with a yes man answering to a skint owner.

It’s atrocious.

 

[originaltrueblade]

I’d consider most of the championship superior to league 1 bar PSG.

I think most people wanted Ndiaye to stay because he’s the best player we have ever had, and by default would have given us a better chance. The general ‘paradox’ is irrelevant mind you, because he could have signed and got injured in the first game. His sale is not the reason we have gone down.

He wasn’t the best player we have ever had by a country mile

 

[originaltrueblade]

I was very upset when he left us and still am but for me TC is our best player since I started watching the Blades in 1970. Ndiaye had the chance for me to change my mind as I wanted to see how well he played in the top tier but he chose to listen to his agent and advisers.

Currie was the best player by far. No one has since come close. Ndiaye struggled at Marseille in a much inferior league than the Premier League, so doubtful he would have made the step up to Premier League football week in week out.
Imagine a young Tony Currie today on these pitches he would be outstanding to all around him and he would walk into the England team of today easily.

I was lucky to see the likes of Currie it’s only the ones that never saw Currie that say Ndiaye was the best

 

[coolasanidiot]

Currie was the best player by far. No one has since come close. Ndiaye struggled at Marseille in a much inferior league than the Premier League, so doubtful he would have made the step up to Premier League football week in week out.
Imagine a young Tony Currie today on these pitches he would be outstanding to all around him and he would walk into the England team of today easily.

I was lucky to see the likes of Currie it’s only the ones that never saw Currie that say Ndiaye was the best

Currie was a God at Bramall Lane and rightly you say he was the best. But after that in over 50 years Ndiaye was second best and it was a huge disappointment not to see him this year in Prem. Forget the financials as a supporter you can't think about that, it's not our concern.

Ndiaye and Berge shouldn't have been allowed to go so late in situation. BBD Hamer and a good couple of defenders and we would have had a good chance of staying up.

30 points was all that was needed- but they never gave it a go.

 

[raul]

We were told we had to sell him, because we were skint. So we sold him. And we're skint. I'm struggling to see the upside.

 

[Carlton Blade]

We were told we had to sell him, because we were skint. So we sold him. And we're skint. I'm struggling to see the upside.

It's bas business to keep the most entertaining player of my lifetime at the club I watch

 

[SwissBlade]

Going slightly off topic, but it's funny really because our fans have been deservedly critical of the club for selling him and yet arguably he's been our greatest piece of business. We paid very little to get him from Boreham Wood in 2017 and sold him only six years later for reportedly £20mil.

That's the kind of scouting and recruitment we need to see more of. This is Brentford territory. Not all will work but somewhere out there are gems ready to be polished and sold off for significant profits. What you do with the profits is the more important question after.

That’s the massive point.

We have history of developing players and in the modern game, sell them for a profit.

Something that Wilder mentioned in the first year in the Premier League and has been mentioned since, I think by Hecky, that we had a model to recruit young players that we can sell for more than we paid or develop them for the first team

We’ve made some mistakes but the likes of Ndiaye was a great success as you say.

Berge should’ve also been, but for various reasons we didn’t make a profit

It’s easy to get very bogged down with this model and its failings but it also makes us an attractive club for bigger sides to loan to.

 

[SwissBlade]

We were told we had to sell him, because we were skint. So we sold him. And we're skint. I'm struggling to see the upside.

Sold for a fee rather than nothing this summer

 

[Zipwire]

With or without Illy, we would still have gone down, I’m fairly certain of that.

I think he made his move a season too soon. A year in the Premier League would have been the making of him and he would have been our best player but ultimately he only had a year left on his contract and if he wasn’t signing then we ran the risk of losing a £20m player on a free this summer.

His loss has been magnified by McAtee having a poor season and Archer being absolutely shocking

 

[BerksBlade]

I don't think keeping Ndiaye would have saved us from relegation. But we would have been a more competitive proposition due to his pressing and tenacity.
Assuming of course, that the Shirecliffe Sniper didn't get him!
But the timing was awful. Our whole style of play (and I use that term loosely) revolved around him and we had no clue how to replace him or adjust.

 

[Rodley]

 

[Rodley]

What a joy to watch, missed this goal.