The Imaginary Youth Pathway

[robbiez666]

I've heard Wilder say it and I've then seen zero intention of doing it.

He's giving less opportunity than the two Nigels did for our youth players, with a significantly smaller squad.

We know Coutts is shit
We know Scougal is shit
We know Freeman is shit
We know K Wallace is shit

Yet, still on the bench. No doubt, when we sign a keeper, our only youth player won't be on the bench.

Why is an aged League 2 clogger taking the CB spot on the bench ahead of a 17 year old who will be apparently ready in 3 months?

Utter joke.

 

[bladesmanluke]

I haven't seen anything from any of our youngsters to suggest they're anywhere near good enough for league one football.

Especially George Long if he can still be classed as a youngster

 

[Champagneblade]

To be fair, after the youth cup exploits and due to a desire to not bring in expensive loanees and also adjust our cost base to our new surroundings, there was a mass oversell on that successful youth team.

McCabe and to differing degrees the fans bought into this being the future. Half the team being Sheffielders and all that.

Truth is, it was bollocks.

Of that entire team George is still here and underperforming in the first team.

Maguire 'made it'. The rest didn't though we did in retrospect make a very good deal on Slew. We can also consider ourselves unlucky with Diego's injury though he came later.

Wilder is right. The youth will get a chance. But only if good enough.

As well as Long, Reed is out of the squad and at a career Crossroads. The only ones with an upward trajectory are Whiteman and Calvert-Lewin, neither of which are as advanced as people would like.

The Academy occasionally produces a gem which will either save you a player purchase or will bring in finance, depending on the level of the first team. Overall taking into account fees received and pitch rentals etc, it probably still pays for itself. The mistake was thinking the Naughton/Walker scenario would be the norm.

Looking back, we've been better served when the youth team was average, but with a couple of standouts than being a good team overall, as it's only really the standouts that make it.

For me it's not even a nice to have consideration anymore. You need a good first team and that's it. Where they come from in the modern era matters very little anymore.

 

[BushBlade]

I like the academy but right now, fuck the 'pathway'. We need to sort out the first team and that has to be the only priority.

They will get chances in the EFL Trophy to show what they can do. It's up to them to prove they can step up.

I also suspect that once the transfer window has closed some of the listed players will be on the bench less.

 

[s10blade]

This may hurt robbiez666, but currently Paul Coutts is a better option than any midfielder in our academy which raises many questions (many of which have been done to death).

What's the point in an academy that can't regularly produce youngsters good enough for L1? Shut the thing down IMO.

Every penny wasted on the academy, desso pitches etc etc etc is keeping us here longer than we should be.

Should we pop Whiteman for example (nothing against him) in the team for three years like we've done with George to potentially see no progress? We don't owe these kids anything. I want the best XI and bench possible for SUFC.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Scougall isn't shit.

 

[alcoblade]

I've heard Wilder say it and I've then seen zero intention of doing it.

He's giving less opportunity than the two Nigels did for our youth players, with a significantly smaller squad.

We know Coutts is shit
We know Scougal is shit
We know Freeman is shit
We know K Wallace is shit

Yet, still on the bench. No doubt, when we sign a keeper, our only youth player won't be on the bench.

Why is an aged League 2 clogger taking the CB spot on the bench ahead of a 17 year old who will be apparently ready in 3 months?

Utter joke.

Because the young players coming through aren't good enough, again?

UTB

 

[robbiez666]

Ok Tyler Durden , we, at best, you can say the players listed above are ineffectual and add very little or nothing.

We have an Academy which we spend a lot of money on. We're in League 1. Our bench is made up of players who won't change a game. If we can't produce players that can play at League 1 level then it all seems a little pointless, save for the odd gem who gets sold anyway.

s10blade Whether they're good enough or not, I know bringing on Paul Coutts will add nothing. Ben Whiteman or David Brooks may not be ready yet(they seldom are in our youth set-up!) but we won't know unless they get a chance.

Whilst not picking the youth players, Wilder is still telling us that we have great youth players and there will be a pathway.

 

[alcoblade]

Ok Tyler Durden , we, at best, you can say the players listed above are ineffectual and add very little or nothing.

We have an Academy which we spend a lot of money on. We're in League 1. Our bench is made up of players who won't change a game. If we can't produce players that can play at League 1 level then it all seems a little pointless, save for the odd gem who gets sold anyway.

s10blade Whether they're good enough or not, I know bringing on Paul Coutts will add nothing. Ben Whiteman or David Brooks may not be ready yet(they seldom are in our youth set-up!) but we won't know unless they get a chance.

Whilst not picking the youth players, Wilder is still telling us that we have great youth players and there will be a pathway.

What else can he say, whether they are any good or not?

UTB

 

[Bartleby]

To be fair, after the youth cup exploits and due to a desire to not bring in expensive loanees and also adjust our cost base to our new surroundings, there was a mass oversell on that successful youth team.

McCabe and to differing degrees the fans bought into this being the future. Half the team being Sheffielders and all that.

Truth is, it was bollocks.

Of that entire team George is still here and underperforming in the first team.

Maguire 'made it'. The rest didn't though we did in retrospect make a very good deal on Slew. We can also consider ourselves unlucky with Diego's injury though he came later.

Wilder is right. The youth will get a chance. But only if good enough.

As well as Long, Reed is out of the squad and at a career Crossroads. The only ones with an upward trajectory are Whiteman and Calvert-Lewin, neither of which are as advanced as people would like.

The Academy occasionally produces a gem which will either save you a player purchase or will bring in finance, depending on the level of the first team. Overall taking into account fees received and pitch rentals etc, it probably still pays for itself. The mistake was thinking the Naughton/Walker scenario would be the norm.

Looking back, we've been better served when the youth team was average, but with a couple of standouts than being a good team overall, as it's only really the standouts that make it.

For me it's not even a nice to have consideration anymore. You need a good first team and that's it. Where they come from in the modern era matters very little anymore.

we were talking about this yesterday and saying that, given how little time managers get these days, why should they be bothered about the youth system and long term planning. If there's a product they can use from it fine, otherwise they shop elsewhere. One of the reasons Evans lost his job at Rovvrum I believe. Then they bring in Redfearm cos he says he buys into the youth system apparently then 90 days later ...

 

[robbiez666]

His interview sums up how I'm feeling about this really. He mentions, at the end, that we might need a cover left back. We already have K Wallace and, to a lesser extent, Freeman, on our books before you get to Kelly, who was on the bench last year.

The club site itself, with only Reed, Whiteman, Ramsdale and DCL profiled as players. In previous years, we've included some of the younger players in and around the first team squad. It just seems that this year, more than any other in this league, that youth players will not be given a chance.

We have transfer listed players Wilder doesn't want ahead of youth players. The next level down who are 17/18/19 playing in the U-23s seem more promising.

 

[Zlatan]

The only way a 'youth pathway' will work is if the club sticks to a long term philosophy in the way of playing throughout the whole club, like Crewe do (and Ajax on a bigger stage). The younger players can then move up and fit in more easily.

It's hardly going to work if you go from long ball under the likes of Warnock/Blackwell, to tippy tappy stuff with Weir and Adkins and then back to long ball under Wilder all within the space of ten years or less.

 

[Bartleby]

The only way a 'youth pathway' will work is if the club sticks to a long term philosophy in the way of playing throughout the whole club, like Crewe do

Crewe have a long term philosophy with managers as well tbf, unlike most clubs. Not saying they've set the footballing world on fire but then neither have we of late with our annual change of manager.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Scougall isn't shit.

He isn't shit - but he is ineffective at English Tier 3 football - as are numerous others that we have on the payroll.

UTB

 

[larkymasher]

I haven't seen anything from any of our youngsters to suggest they're anywhere near good enough for league one football.

Especially George Long if he can still be classed as a youngster

Apart from Kelly, Whiteman, Reed and DCL what other youngsters do you really know and watch regular to form your opinion?
CW is the person who said Semple a 17 year old will be ready in 6 months. What do you know about Gilmoor? Hallam? K Smith? Semple?

 

[larkymasher]

The reason the pathway has gone quiet is very simple.
Any manager coming in to Sufc will never risk his job by giving any of our youth players a chance.
It's very easy to say the youth players are not good enough but the majority on here only know the ones near the first team. They have no idea what is coming coming up behind the 3 or 4 many have already written off.
Also the manager will always go with a seasoned pro on the bench rather than gamble on youth. Hence Coutts over say Reed. It's wrong but it's a fact.
Maghey was equally as good as Wilson on Saturday but CW went with a 27 year old in Wilson than 21 year old Maghey. Tells it's own story.

Even the pigs down the road are prepared to play their youth. CW however is so shit scared of failure he will never play any young lads.

Can't blame him if I am honest but for someone like Semple to be spoken of so highly of publicly up 3 months ago by CW and then find himself 5 in line it must be hard to stomach. He is as good as Jake Wright but 13 years younger. That fact tells everyone what CW thinks of youth.

At the end of the day it's about getting Sufc out of this league and quite rightly so.

 

[Finn Keane o' Balmaqueen]

Wonder who will be the first opponents we face and
CW chooses an XI not to lose a match,
instead of an XI chosen to win.


Didn't C. Lough experiment with that philosophy or was I addled for nigh on eighteen months?

 

[Bartleby]

Didn't C. Lough experiment with that philosophy or was I addled for nigh on eighteen months?

does it have to be either/or ?

 

[Finn Keane o' Balmaqueen]

does it have to be either/or ?

Raise yer game WincobankBlade
I was expecting a full on... BOTH!!

 

[larkymasher]

I haven't seen anything from any of our youngsters to suggest they're anywhere near good enough for league one football.

Especially George Long if he can still be classed as a youngster

By the start of this season and last our fucking starting so called 11 are not up to league 1 football either ..

 

[Darthblade]

Scougall isn't shit.

I regret to say that he has demonstrated over an extended period of time that he is incapable of having a positive contribution to the team in L1 .......

In short, he's completely ineffective and therefore a waste of a shirt ......

UTB & FTP

 

[Treeton Blade]

I've heard Wilder say it and I've then seen zero intention of doing it.

He's giving less opportunity than the two Nigels did for our youth players, with a significantly smaller squad.

We know Coutts is shit
We know Scougal is shit
We know Freeman is shit
We know K Wallace is shit

Yet, still on the bench. No doubt, when we sign a keeper, our only youth player won't be on the bench.

Why is an aged League 2 clogger taking the CB spot on the bench ahead of a 17 year old who will be apparently ready in 3 months?

Utter joke.

So who have you seen play from our Development squads, and think should be playing?

 

[SwissBlade]

robbiez666 dear oh dear, somebody is clutching at straws... Youth Pathway you said:

3 games in (hate to keep repeating this)
V Bolton - Bench included Ramsdale and Jake Wright
V Crewe - bench included Ramsdale, Wright and Calvert Lewin, Calvert Lewin got a game.
V Rochdale - Bench included Ramsdale and Jake Wright

In 3 games of a very long season where Wilder is building HIS side, he has consistently picked Youth Players on the bench.

Can he do more? Yes he can
Will he do more? Most probably, but it will depend of the players that are ready being better than what we have and the opportunities arising.

 

[larkymasher]

robbiez666 dear oh dear, somebody is clutching at straws... Youth Pathway you said:

3 games in (hate to keep repeating this)
V Bolton - Bench included Ramsdale and Jake Wright
V Crewe - bench included Ramsdale, Wright and Calvert Lewin, Calvert Lewin got a game.
V Rochdale - Bench included Ramsdale and Jake Wright

In 3 games of a very long season where Wilder is building HIS side, he has consistently picked Youth Players on the bench.

Can he do more? Yes he can
Will he do more? Most probably, but it will depend of the players that are ready being better than what we have and the opportunities arising.

Jake Wright is 30 year old, Ramsdale only on bench until experienced keeper signs,DCL is only one used ( sparingly )

Dear oh Dear Swiss are you serious.

 

[SwissBlade]

Jake Wright is 30 year old, Ramsdale only on bench until experienced keeper signs,DCL is only one used ( sparingly )

Dear oh Dear Swiss are you serious.

Lol! I thought Jake Wright was the young striker!

Ok so its still two players used in three games. I'm personally surprised that he's used any so far.

 

[robbiez666]

So who have you seen play from our Development squads, and think should be playing?

For example, I know if we need a goal and bring Coutts on he'll do nothing. Someone like Brooks has the ability to create something (and score) whilst not being developed enough to play 90 minutes. He may not be able to step up, but how will we ever know? If we need a CM I'd take Whiteman or Reed over Coutts from the bench. At least they can run!

I would also pick Semple over Wright for the bench. Not starting at this stage.
I think Kelly should be Hussey's back up, and if he struggles then we still have Freeman and Wallace.

I remember we threw Harry in (who promptly got send off) and Lowton. It's just frustrating that players who have no future at the club are keeping young players from getting a break.

robbiez666 dear oh dear, somebody is clutching at straws... Youth Pathway you said:

3 games in (hate to keep repeating this)
V Bolton - Bench included Ramsdale and Jake Wright
V Crewe - bench included Ramsdale, Wright and Calvert Lewin, Calvert Lewin got a game.
V Rochdale - Bench included Ramsdale and Jake Wright

In 3 games of a very long season where Wilder is building HIS side, he has consistently picked Youth Players on the bench.

Can he do more? Yes he can
Will he do more? Most probably, but it will depend of the players that are ready being better than what we have and the opportunities arising.

Jake Wright (the young'n) is now Jake Wright Jnr on the U-23s team sheet
Ramsdale won't be on the bench come tomorrow. He was never going to play unless Long was too injured to continue a game.
DCL came in, had a mare, and was promptly left out.

I'm also at a loss why Woolford was in the U-23s unless someone was watching him. He's not even named as a player on the website!

 

[larkymasher]

For example, I know if we need a goal and bring Coutts on he'll do nothing. Someone like Brooks has the ability to create something (and score) whilst not being developed enough to play 90 minutes. He may not be able to step up, but how will we ever know? If we need a CM I'd take Whiteman or Reed over Coutts from the bench. At least they can run!

I would also pick Semple over Wright for the bench. Not starting at this stage.
I think Kelly should be Hussey's back up, and if he struggles then we still have Freeman and Wallace.

I remember we threw Harry in (who promptly got send off) and Lowton. It's just frustrating that players who have no future at the club are keeping young players from getting a break.



Jake Wright (the young'n) is now Jake Wright Jnr on the U-23s team sheet
Ramsdale won't be on the bench come tomorrow. He was never going to play unless Long was too injured to continue a game.
DCL came in, had a mare, and was promptly left out.

I'm also at a loss why Woolford was in the U-23s unless someone was watching him. He's not even named as a player on the website!

Anyone who watched the u23s would have to agree with all the calls made on the above players.
U23s were excellent today.