The future of our academy and Nick Cox leaving.

[nopigfansintown]

Just thought I'd post the link to Nick Cox's twitter as it surely reveals that concerns about the long term sustainability of our academy run deep post EPPP? I was told that Adkins was concerned about this and it played a part in Nick's decision to move to Man Utd. If you click on the article about Brentford's academy changes that Nick has posted you can see him debating with people regarding these issues.
https://twitter.com/Coxy3012?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

See the thread entitled "SUFC:Series of fans forums" from about page 15 for the questions regarding this that I asked at the forum and the inadequate answers I received. I've just bumped this thread.

 

[Silent Blade]

Just thought I'd post the link to Nick Cox's twitter as it surely reveals that concerns about the long term sustainability of our academy run deep post EPPP? I was told that Adkins was concerned about this and it played a part in Nick's decision to move to Man Utd. If you click on the article about Brentford's academy changes that Nick has posted you can see him debating with people regarding these issues.
https://twitter.com/Coxy3012?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

See the thread entitled "SUFC:Series of fans forums" from about page 15 for the questions regarding this that I asked at the forum and the inadequate answers I received. I've just bumped this thread.

Wouldn't surprise me if more FL clubs close their Academies

 

[larkymasher]

It only becomes a problem if a pathway is blocked for Academy players or they cant see any quality coming through from their age groups.

Lets not get too hung up on why Nick Cox has left...... its Man Utd calling, its double your salary calling.

Too many conspiracy theories going on..

 

[Finn Keane o' Balmaqueen]

Wouldn't surprise me if more FL clubs close their Academies

How long before the wealthiest of the wealthiest PL clubs incorporate certain successful FL Club's Academies as even more feeding grounds for potential new talent?

We've had tenuous links with international clubs, non league clubs here in England, have they been successes?

I keep a close watch at what's happening at Manchester City with their development foundations. I'm not sure if their model is unique, I think Ajax somehow get in with being accepted as a blueprint for what is happening now across Europe in the Academy set-ups.
Kelechi Iheanacho is a player i've watched develop since he signed for City in 2014, City used Columbus Crew as his starting ground before he was allowed a permit. Compared to the fee City paid for Wilfred Bony (£28m) the money invested in nurturing talent, he looks a much better investment, who's to say SUFC and other English clubs Academies won't be invested in?

The development of English lads in their professional careers, would also be high on the priorities of The FA. Where's the future of English football on an international level going to be in a decade or even less if the Academies aren't further developed or even more worrying, ended?

 

[SwissBlade]

It only becomes a problem if a pathway is blocked for Academy players or they cant see any quality coming through from their age groups.

Lets not get too hung up on why Nick Cox has left...... its Man Utd calling, its double your salary calling.

Too many conspiracy theories going on..

And its Producing players for European (possibly Champions League) Football calling.

Its surely the pinnacle of Academy jobs... isn't it?

 

[Blade58]

It only becomes a problem if a pathway is blocked for Academy players or they cant see any quality coming through from their age groups.

Lets not get too hung up on why Nick Cox has left...... its Man Utd calling, its double your salary calling.

Too many conspiracy theories going on..

When you say double, I can't remember exactly what I was told that particular night as I'd had a few, but lets say the double is more like 8 fold

 

[alcoblade]

You mean it's not paying for itself? Well blow me down!

UTB

 

[larkymasher]

top post.

When you say double, I can't remember exactly what I was told that particular night as I'd had a few, but lets say the double is more like 8 fold

Exactly ...................... Its the top job in his chosen field.

thats why he has left, no other reason

 

[nopigfansintown]

It only becomes a problem if a pathway is blocked for Academy players or they cant see any quality coming through from their age groups.

Lets not get too hung up on why Nick Cox has left...... its Man Utd calling, its double your salary calling.

Too many conspiracy theories going on..

More to do with the best talent not reaching the magical age sixteen at SUFC, or other similarly financed academies.At this age they sign the pro deal and give the club financial reward if they get a big move. Until they reach this age the compensation payments are a joke unless your academy is category one. The move to Man Utd will leave him quids in, but is he likely to bring that many first team players through? If our academy stops being sustainable post EPPP - who would get the blame? You can see many reasons to leave.

 

[nopigfansintown]

You mean it's not paying for itself? Well blow me down!

UTB

It paid for itself pre EPPP, will it pay for itself post EPPP?
If not what are the consequences for the club and academy?

 

[larkymasher]

Arsenal are taking lads from Barcelona every summer

Reading have lost 2 lads to Man Utd CAT1 to CAT1

This myth that all CAT2 Academies are just there to stock up CAT1 Academies is rubbish.

Any club with the money can buy any player they wish what ever CAT Academy they are.

 

[Grecian2000]

it played a part in Nick's decision to move to Man Utd.

After he'd cleaned the spunk out of his pants after the words "Hi Nick, fancy a job with us here at Man Utd?".

 

[nopigfansintown]

Arsenal are taking lads from Barcelona every summer

Reading have lost 2 lads to Man Utd CAT1 to CAT1

This myth that all CAT2 Academies are just there to stock up CAT1 Academies is rubbish.

Any club with the money can buy any player they wish what ever CAT Academy they are.

And what are the comparative fees? The academy needs to make money to survive unless we have a benefactor who will run it regardless of any cost benefit analysis whilst ensuring it wont impact on first team budgets. The solution that they proposed at the forum was targeting older lads (16 plus?) who don't make it elsewhere? (Nick talks about this in the notes under the article on his twitter page). The gems from our academy (in the past) have largely been there since primary school, so this is a big development in approach. You'd also have to consider the cost of doing this, and whether a development squad or similar would be the way to go rather than a traditional academy.

 

[larkymasher]

Unless we see the hard facts that the Academy is losing money, then why not have it and try and find our own players?

I don't understand what the issue is with the academy.... only if it is losing money over a period of time should we not have one.

I also maybe missing the point but the academy technically makes money when a homegrown player is sold. Is that correct?

 

[nopigfansintown]

on

Unless we see the hard facts that the Academy is losing money, then why not have it and try and find our own players?

I don't understand what the issue is with the academy.... only if it is losing money over a period of time should we not have one.

I also maybe missing the point but the academy technically makes money when a homegrown player is sold. Is that correct?

9k each for our two best under 11s. I think its a similar figure per year. So we could have the next Diego Maradona and sell him for 60k ish. We got 400k for Mellis a few years ago (rising to 1m).

 

[larkymasher]

4OOk for Mellis sounds like a bang good deal on the basis of his career to date

 

[nopigfansintown]

4OOk for Mellis sounds like a bang good deal on the basis of his career to date

Exactly. If the same scenario happened tomorrow we'd receive nowhere near that fee.

 

[Sharrowblade]

Nick Cox's appointment at Manchester United is purely a personal one.

As for Brentford's Academy, Everything Benham (owner) does is done because he has business models coming out of his ears, maybe the cost of running a championship club is beginning to cut deep, especially on those crowds.

I understand what they are saying, they are basically saying we'll have one development group 17-21, and we'll get some of the lads who get the knock back from Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs, and what we save, will throw it at a couple of loan signings and sod the local community.

 

[larkymasher]

My initial point was that Nick Cox has not left SUFC due to the EPPP Ruling or what CAT club we are.

Watford CAT3 ..... SUFC CAT2 ......... Man Utd CAT1

That was his route in Academy management , there is a clear path he has followed.

On the compensation front, its not an issue as the threads and doomers on here dont think our academy players a good enough anyway.

I fully understand but it boils down to having an academy or not

 

[AlienBlade]

I was there at forum, and Travis said it would be worth it after the EPPP

he inferred the following: say the academy produces 10 kids a season, 5 maybe no good at all, 2 of them might be poached by a “higher club” however 3 would remain with the team, they will then either be Sold (having surpassed that magical age of 16) and we gain the usual money (ala Slew of excess of £1m) OR the three go on to play for us helping the team achieve success (Long, Reed, Whiteman, etc.)

Travis who has been in the game a while and knows all about the background of how things work did also state that this has been going off for ever and a day, before CAT 1 & 2 were even in existence, we just never hear about it.
And wasn’t Mellis 16 when he moved over to Chelsea, so could have been offered a professional contract…
IF team such as Man City are poaching our players, it also means that those in this area are more likely to attend our academy, (as they see it as a gateway to Man City) rather than the other side of the city which is a gateway to the lower leagues… this means the pool of players coming to us increases, pointing out the likes of Melis, Slew, Forte etc. will be wheeled out as an example, like likes of Maguire, Jags (yes I know Jags didn’t exactly come through the academy but you get my point) progressed by staying with us for a bit longer (thus increasing their ability knowledge and earning capacity)
The other thing mentioned was that lets use Man City as the example they pick 40 players up from all CAT 2 and CAT 3 Academies of those, 5 might actually make it, the rest will be released and there is nothing stopping us picking up players who were then released by other CAT 1 Academies, (which is technically what we did with Jags and Tonge I believe in that they were released by Man U?) so this is nothing new,
The Academy I think is practically self-sufficient (with the hiring out of the facilities etc.) so the fact it may produce 1 player per season would actually be a bonus, whether they are “stolen” for a pittance, sold for a bomb (after turning 16) or actually get in to the first team.

 

[alcoblade]

It paid for itself pre EPPP, will it pay for itself post EPPP?
If not what are the consequences for the club and academy?

Close it. Then we can stop pretending we're going to rely on Louis Reed and DCL and do some real scouting.

Note to self / stop caring. We will fuck it up whatever we do.

UTB

 

[Barney]

Just thought I'd post the link to Nick Cox's twitter as it surely reveals that concerns about the long term sustainability of our academy run deep post EPPP? I was told that Adkins was concerned about this and it played a part in Nick's decision to move to Man Utd. If you click on the article about Brentford's academy changes that Nick has posted you can see him debating with people regarding these issues.
https://twitter.com/Coxy3012?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

See the thread entitled "SUFC:Series of fans forums" from about page 15 for the questions regarding this that I asked at the forum and the inadequate answers I received. I've just bumped this thread.

Travis seems to think EPPP is irrelevant.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Travis seems to think EPPP is irrelevant.

He doesn't, he said: "it was done for the big boys". He thinks we will be able to continue to prosper without it by getting players later in their development eg Ramsdale.. These are all significant admissions. He also said: "we only need players good enough for league one" ,which I sincerely hope is not the case.