The Ex-Manager Factor

[Sothall_Blade]

Why do people express such hatred and vitriol towards our ex-managers?
Judging by some of the comments you read on here, you would think they were a motley assortment of war criminals and child molesters.
Personal comments. Slanderous allegations. Hilarious nicknames. Delighting at their perceived failures.

They all tried their best to do a very difficult job, with varying degrees of success.
Some were very poor at the job but I don’t doubt that they gave it their best. No manager sets out wanting to fail.
Some of our most successful managers get the worst abuse but I can’t think of any since Harris who haven’t been subjected to it.

 

[BushBlade]

Why do people express such hatred and vitriol towards our ex-managers?
Judging by some of the comments you read on here, you would think they were a motley assortment of war criminals and child molesters.
Personal comments. Slanderous allegations. Hilarious nicknames. Delighting at their perceived failures.

They all tried their best to do a very difficult job, with varying degrees of success.
Some were very poor at the job but I don’t doubt that they gave it their best. No manager sets out wanting to fail.
Some of our most successful managers get the worst abuse but I can’t think of any since Harris who haven’t been subjected to it.

Because when they fail it really pisses people off.
And every board, like life, contains a number of people who always oppose the majority view because they think it makes them look more intelligent than the majority, like conspiracy theorists who think we're all brainwashed by the media because they've seen a film on You tube and read an unsubstantiated article on FB.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Passions run high in football and if someone disagrees with a manager's handling of a situation, they can get a bit personal. Nobody who was on BM could forget "utter cunt"-gate.

It shouldn't happen but it does. I think Clough, Blackwell and Warnock had personalities that just rubbed some people up the wrong way too. Weir, Robson and Heath were just embarrassingly poor. Wilson doesn't seem to attract abuse. He spoke well and humbly and did a steady job even if he failed in his ultimate aim.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Passions run high in football and if someone disagrees with a manager's handling of a situation, they can get a bit personal. Nobody who was on BM could forget "utter cunt"-gate.

It shouldn't happen but it does. I think Clough, Blackwell and Warnock had personalities that just rubbed some people up the wrong way too. Weir, Robson and Heath were just embarrassingly poor. Wilson doesn't seem to attract abuse. He spoke well and humbly and did a steady job even if he failed in his ultimate aim.

"Piggy being the operative word. We should never have appointed a grunter, simple as that."...

..just the other day from one of the ostensibly more intelligent posters on here. Maybe he was being ironic? Never too sure.

 

[Ricky]

Nigel Clough only tried his best for Nigel Clough.

 

[pommpey]

Nigel Clough only tried his best for Nigel Clough.

No he didn't. I don't call regenerating a club at the foot of the table to seventh and a couple of semi finals as selfish nature.

Did you feel good when we played Dull City, Scummers and Spuds? I did.

Can you actually tell us why he left the club?

pommpey

 

[Ricky]

The club and all of us only wanted success having spent far too long in this division, unfortunately Clough values a lot of things above success. He'd never compromise his (questionable) beliefs and methods for anything and he decided tiny amounts of progress were acceptable when nobody else saw it that way given our status and resources in this division. He's a guy who likes to be settled and by attempting to lower our expectations and standards and taking an unnecessary amount of time to do the job required thought he was giving himself more long term job security.

He deserves all the vitriol and I can't believe more of our fans didn't/can't see him for what he is.

 

[Champagneblade]

For a Collins' faults, he was clearly a better option than playing Alcock and McEveley in key matches as the centre half partnership he'd totally neglected. Still, he'd rather not make up with Collins for a key match than compromise; this is where Clough was arrogant and self-serving. Having spent 2m on a full back, it was incredible we entered the playoffs with no actual centre back that he would pick. A squad of 49 and no recognised central defender pairing.

What he did that summer in terms of wasteful recruitment was still unfathomable to this day.

He did well to turn things around after Weir but Weir was an anomaly. Totally unqualified for the job and it showed. The squad Weir took over finished in the play offs the previous year too. Any manager following him would look a success.

Moving from 7th (which Clough could have exceeded if he had pushed for a striker that Jan instead of making do with survival) to 5th was not progress having accumulated 49 players and spent in excess of 2m I.e. Resources given to him were unparalleled that season. Wigan took on Morsy and The Crewe lad for far less this year.

He's never succeeded anywhere. Never got a league team up in all his years. If Burton go up, good luck to him but it was handed in a plate to him there.

Whatever Adkins failed at afterwards doesn't make Clough any better. Clough 2013/14 showed promise but the abuse of power bestowed upon him in 2014/15 just doesn't compute.

He seemed to think he was untouchable.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Again, these are all reasons why people think that Clough didn’t do a good job as manager rather than reasons for personal hatred, abuse and vilification.
No crimes were committed. No women, children or animals were harmed (Although the feelings of a centre-half may have been slightly hurt).

I was expecting to see assorted tales of ex-managers refusing to sign autographs for people’s kids or offering fans out while down the pub.
There may be many other valid reasons for a personal dislike, disapproval or even hatred. Not just disapproval of management style or tactical disagreements.

 

[Baildon Blade]

Moving from 7th (which Clough could have exceeded if he had pushed for a striker that Jan instead of making do with survival) to 5th was not progress having accumulated 49 players and spent in excess of 2m

Yes it is! It may not, in your opinion, be enough progression but one is outside the play offs the other gives you a chance of promotion (ultimately not taken, but a chance none the less).

 

[Grecian2000]

The club and all of us only wanted success having spent far too long in this division, unfortunately Clough values a lot of things above success. He'd never compromise his (questionable) beliefs and methods for anything and he decided tiny amounts of progress were acceptable when nobody else saw it that way given our status and resources in this division. He's a guy who likes to be settled and by attempting to lower our expectations and standards and taking an unnecessary amount of time to do the job required thought he was giving himself more long term job security.

He deserves all the vitriol and I can't believe more of our fans didn't/can't see him for what he is.

Perhaps if he HAD manage to "lower our expectations" we wouldn't be on the brink of sacking another one season manager.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Why do people express such hatred and vitriol towards our ex-managers?
Judging by some of the comments you read on here, you would think they were a motley assortment of war criminals and child molesters.
Personal comments. Slanderous allegations. Hilarious nicknames. Delighting at their perceived failures.

They all tried their best to do a very difficult job, with varying degrees of success.
Some were very poor at the job but I don’t doubt that they gave it their best. No manager sets out wanting to fail.
Some of our most successful managers get the worst abuse but I can’t think of any since Harris who haven’t been subjected to it.

Because some fans don't have the good grace to appreciate a managers efforts in trying to make this "basket case" of a club successful. No manager took this job to purposely fail.
I salute any manager prepared to take on this "sword in the stone" challenge that is SUFC.

 

[Ricky]

Perhaps if he HAD manage to "lower our expectations" we wouldn't be on the brink of sacking another one season manager.

If we adjusted our standards and expectations to where he wanted them to be it would've been time to just give up altogether.

 

[Grecian2000]

If we adjusted our standards and expectations to where he wanted them to be it would've been time to just give up altogether.

Really? I didn't expect him to take Weir's team and get to two semis finals and a play-off within 18 months.

 

[georgebernardshaw]

Nigel Clough only tried his best for Nigel Clough.

Complete and utter bollocks

 

[1danewhitehouse]

"Piggy being the operative word. We should never have appointed a grunter, simple as that."...

..just the other day from one of the ostensibly more intelligent posters on here. Maybe he was being ironic? Never too sure.

Well there are exceptions to every rule. But he doesn’t seem to be ridiculed and personally insulted in the way that Clough, Blackwell and Warnock are. Warnock sticks out as he’s been our most successful manager in a long time and is hated by some of our fans. I think their confrontational style just rubs some up the wrong way.

 

[Ricky]

Really? I didn't expect him to take Weir's team and get to two semis finals and a play-off within 18 months.

You didn't expect us to get to the play offs in his second season? You agreed with Clough that last season wasn't a failure? You enjoyed us setting up negatively at home every week? You accepted Clough's satisfaction with drawing games at home to awful opposition?

No doubt he did well in his first season with a good squad, but he went about the job like he was managing a non league team with no expectations, not a club who should never be as low as the third division who are title favourites every season.

 

[georgebernardshaw]

You didn't expect us to get to the play offs in his second season? You agreed with Clough that last season wasn't a failure? You enjoyed us setting up negatively at home every week? You accepted Clough's satisfaction with drawing games at home to awful opposition?

No doubt he did well in his first season with a good squad, but he went about the job like he was managing a non league team with no expectations, not a club who should never be as low as the third division who are title favourites every season.

When everything goes black, stop digging - that's embarrassing

 

[Ricky]

When everything goes black, stop digging - that's embarrassing

Well that's told me. You make excellent points there, again.

 

[Grecian2000]

You didn't expect us to get to the play offs in his second season?

It was his first FULL season. Yes I did expect that, I expected automatic until we couldn't get Coady and Brayford and lost Maguire, then my expectations were lowered somewhat. The time to really back him was summer 2014 instead of expecting a Welsh goalscorer to come back to the fold like he'd never been away.

You agreed with Clough that last season wasn't a failure?

Yes, I agreed with that. Like I said, after the summer failures to get the team right for reasons (some Clough's, some clearly not) I though play-offs, another major semi final and a play off defeat were acceptable progress.

You enjoyed us setting up negatively at home every week? You accepted Clough's satisfaction with drawing games at home to awful opposition?

No, didn't like either of those things. Accepted they may be the best way of achieving promotion with the team available.

No doubt he did well in his first season with a good squad,

No, he took over a desperate squad (more than a few on here were happy to say it was the worst ever). He got players like Murphy and Flynn (both of which would have been driven to any other club they wished when he took over) playing and turned a team with no basic goal scorer into a very useful outfit and a major cup semi finalist.

not a club who should never be as low as the third division who are title favourites every season.

I've no doubt some on here could blame him for our relegation from Div2 but it wasn't his fault we were in this division when he took over.

I am happy to say he made mistakes but he deserved a second full season to put them right, as will the bloke in charge now. It's short termism that has got us where we are and I'm staggered some people can't see that!

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Haters Gonna Hate

 

[Bladepicker]

It was his first FULL season. Yes I did expect that, I expected automatic until we couldn't get Coady and Brayford and lost Maguire, then my expectations were lowered somewhat. The time to really back him was summer 2014 instead of expecting a Welsh goalscorer to come back to the fold like he'd never been away.



Yes, I agreed with that. Like I said, after the summer failures to get the team right for reasons (some Clough's, some clearly not) I though play-offs, another major semi final and a play off defeat were acceptable progress.



No, didn't like either of those things. Accepted they may be the best way of achieving promotion with the team available.



No, he took over a desperate squad (more than a few on here were happy to say it was the worst ever). He got players like Murphy and Flynn (both of which would have been driven to any other club they wished when he took over) playing and turned a team with no basic goal scorer into a very useful outfit and a major cup semi finalist.



I've no doubt some on here could blame him for our relegation from Div2 but it wasn't his fault we were in this division when he took over.

I am happy to say he made mistakes but he deserved a second full season to put them right, as will the bloke in charge now. It's short termism that has got us where we are and I'm staggered some people can't see that!

Deserves more than one like. A good summary of Clough's situation. Had the board backed him to sign Coady, Brayford and O'Grady as well as not go running to Hull to say "please can you accept that bid we pretended to turn down expecting you to offer more for Maguire" then I have no doubt he would have got us up. Yes he made mistakes but there are mitigating factors as you state.

Your point "I've no doubt some on here could blame him for our relegation from Div2 but it wasn't his fault we were in this division when he took over." is highlighted in:

Moving from 7th (which Clough could have exceeded if he had pushed for a striker that Jan instead of making do with survival)

Champers does well there as he manages to find a negative and have a little dig at Clough for managing to turn a team that was stranded at the foot of League One into 'only' a team with a top 7th finish and one that was 45 minutes away from an F.A. Cup final. When people hold that level of frankly bizarre antagonism against him and his achievements, you haven't got much hope.

 

[Ricky]

It was his first FULL season. Yes I did expect that, I expected automatic until we couldn't get Coady and Brayford and lost Maguire, then my expectations were lowered somewhat. The time to really back him was summer 2014 instead of expecting a Welsh goalscorer to come back to the fold like he'd never been away.



Yes, I agreed with that. Like I said, after the summer failures to get the team right for reasons (some Clough's, some clearly not) I though play-offs, another major semi final and a play off defeat were acceptable progress.



No, didn't like either of those things. Accepted they may be the best way of achieving promotion with the team available.



No, he took over a desperate squad (more than a few on here were happy to say it was the worst ever). He got players like Murphy and Flynn (both of which would have been driven to any other club they wished when he took over) playing and turned a team with no basic goal scorer into a very useful outfit and a major cup semi finalist.



I've no doubt some on here could blame him for our relegation from Div2 but it wasn't his fault we were in this division when he took over.

I am happy to say he made mistakes but he deserved a second full season to put them right, as will the bloke in charge now. It's short termism that has got us where we are and I'm staggered some people can't see that!

He had enough backing in the summer to do far more than he did. He chose to bring in about 12-15 poor players, many on good contracts.

We were title favourites and finished about 30 points behind the league winners. We were a much worse team than the one that ended his first season. We failed miserably in the play offs. We had assembled a squad that is still hindering us to this day. How that season could be considered anything other than a failure is beyond me. The fact he tried to tell us it was acceptable sums up his mentality.

Cup performances are largely irrelevant. They're just a bonus. We never set out to get to a league cup semi final. We set out to be promoted to the Championship, and failed spectacularly.

The situation he inherited doesn't change the fact there were some good players in that squad. We still had the Maguire/Collins partnership, Doyle was still decent, Coady, Murphy and Baxter too. We still had a stronger squad than most. Then Brayford, Harris and Scougall arrived. No denying he got a lot more out of certain players though. Shame he could only do it for a few months.

I'm all for giving a manager time if he shows enough promising signs, but Clough took us backwards in his second season and out of 20+ signings only one could be sold for a profit. The football was negative, tedious and embarrassing. His standards and expectations were totally out of line with what they should be at this club in this league. It's hard to make a case for a manager like that to continue.

 

[BushBlade]

May as well just merge this with 'The Clough Factor' thread.

 

[Grecian2000]

He had enough backing in the summer to do far more than he did. He chose to bring in about 12-15 poor players, many on good contracts.

We were title favourites and finished about 30 points behind the league winners. We were a much worse team than the one that ended his first season. We failed miserably in the play offs. We had assembled a squad that is still hindering us to this day. How that season could be considered anything other than a failure is beyond me. The fact he tried to tell us it was acceptable sums up his mentality.

Cup performances are largely irrelevant. They're just a bonus. We never set out to get to a league cup semi final. We set out to be promoted to the Championship, and failed spectacularly.

The situation he inherited doesn't change the fact there were some good players in that squad. We still had the Maguire/Collins partnership, Doyle was still decent, Coady, Murphy and Baxter too. We still had a stronger squad than most. Then Brayford, Harris and Scougall arrived. No denying he got a lot more out of certain players though. Shame he could only do it for a few months.

I'm all for giving a manager time if he shows enough promising signs, but Clough took us backwards in his second season and out of 20+ signings only one could be sold for a profit. The football was negative, tedious and embarrassing. His standards and expectations were totally out of line with what they should be at this club in this league. It's hard to make a case for a manager like that to continue.

OK. I'll give it one last effort.

No, he didn't have the real backing we needed in the summer as that would have meant keeping Coady and Maguire and getting Brayford. It wasn't possible. The Evans thing looms large over our recruitment that fateful summer.

The fact we were favourites means absolutely fuck all. More favourites lose than "come in". Always have, always will.

Cup performances ARE NOT irrelevant at all. Whether you like a cup run or not (a bizarre notion) they bring in much needed revenue and may, should the board ever choose, allow us to keep our best players.

The position we were in was a true reflection of how that team were. Taylor, McGinn, McGinty, McMahon, Hill, Williams. Had to get them out.

As for the rest, it's getting tiresome now. Have another crack at the last word as I can't be arsed anymore (bit like I am with us sacking managers before their time).

 

[Ricky]

OK. I'll give it one last effort.

No, he didn't have the real backing we needed in the summer as that would have meant keeping Coady and Maguire and getting Brayford. It wasn't possible. The Evans thing looms large over our recruitment that fateful summer.

The fact we were favourites means absolutely fuck all. More favourites lose than "come in". Always have, always will.

Cup performances ARE NOT irrelevant at all. Whether you like a cup run or not (a bizarre notion) they bring in much needed revenue and may, should the board ever choose, allow us to keep our best players.

The position we were in was a true reflection of how that team were. Taylor, McGinn, McGinty, McMahon, Hill, Williams. Had to get them out.

As for the rest, it's getting tiresome now. Have another crack at the last word as I can't be arsed anymore (bit like I am with us sacking managers before their time).

Getting Brayford was never an option in the summer. Clough pretended it was and wasted valuable time. If he would've put the same effort into pursuing Coady we could have probably got him. We spent more than most, and ran up a large wage bill. Clough chose to spread the budget on mediocrity.
We saw what would've happened had he been given silly money in the summer in the following January - he wasted it on Brayford and we barely improved at all.

Being favourites is one thing, being justified favourites is another. We were justified favourites. Every single factor pointed towards a successful season. If Clough had done a decent job we could've lived up to that tag, regardless of the board. The very least we should've done is kicked on after January, we did nothing of the sort.

Cup performances are nothing to do with the season's aims. They're a bonus. We're never going to win them.

We had some poor players when he first arrived but to say being bottom of League One was a fair reflection on the squad is unbelievable.

Sorry I replied to your other post, if you didn't want me to you should've let me know.

 

[Tyler Durden]

I was never particularly scathing of any manager until Clough. I understand that some simply can't do the job and we move on.
Clough on the other hand was not only a failure, he was also a bit of arsehole in the process.

The only reason I even continue to mention his name is because the Cult of Clough won't let it go, and in the process continue to slate Adkins in the harshest terms whilst selectively ignoring the preceding circumstances. They never wanted Adkins and they will make damn sure that everyone hears it.

 

[spongebobblade]

Well there was certainly no hatred on Saturday night at "An evening with Dave Bassett" at Beighton Miners Welfare. Told a few good stories and despite having to leave as he was working for Sky the next day he spent an eternity posing for pictures with Blades. One interesting story he told was when McCabe asked for his help in identifying a new manager for us. Harry put some real time and effort into finding us the right man and just before he was about to speak to McCabe our Kev promptly hired David Weir. Bassetts choice/recommendation at the time?
Sean Dyche
Some things will never change

 

[pommpey]

The club and all of us only wanted success having spent far too long in this division, unfortunately Clough values a lot of things above success. He'd never compromise his (questionable) beliefs and methods for anything and he decided tiny amounts of progress were acceptable when nobody else saw it that way given our status and resources in this division. He's a guy who likes to be settled and by attempting to lower our expectations and standards and taking an unnecessary amount of time to do the job required thought he was giving himself more long term job security.

He deserves all the vitriol and I can't believe more of our fans didn't/can't see him for what he is.

Well, we've certainly improved since he left, haven't we?

pommpey

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Harry put some real time and effort into finding us the right man and just before he was about to speak to McCabe our Kev promptly hired David Weir. Bassetts choice/recommendation at the time?
Sean Dyche

Which would have been a great idea had Dyche not joined Burnley the year before – not exactly the most realistic option from Harry!