The Downward Spiral

[keenzy]

So, yet another poor display from us. The tactics, motivation and basics in the team were awful.
Halford looked disinterested, naysmith is always paces behind the game, naughtons crossing was poor and was out of position for their goal. They whole team were a shambles.
The tactics were so predictable, kick it towards henderson and keep trying that. No plan B.
Blackwell is a warnock mark 2, But at least with warnock you knew he could get the players motivated. Big games under blackwell we seem to loose.

Somethings up, either the players dont want to play for blackwell or he's been lying. Last night he said on the radio he knew that they had 3 center halfs and he told our players to play it out wide. That never happened. If he wants to play it out wide, why did he let dyer go and why not give cotts a run in the team to see if he can pick up form.... he let webber have a run when he wasnt playing well and he built confidence.

The midfield was poor again, we need a player for the middle of the park. I was a fan of spring and he's scored 2 good goals for charlton in both of his appearances for them, why not have him on loan till the end of the season?

McCabe is another who has been lying. Where's this replacement for BT that he promised on the radio? put your money where your mouth is and stop buying clubs all over the world. Yes BT was expensive but you could always count on him to get us out of the mire. The transfer window is on its way shut, time is running out and no replacement for BT.

We bought ward, one for the future, fair enough but he's no replacement for BT. All this McCabe has "built up" will be on the way down pretty soon. Selling best players with no replacements, playing crap hoofball(which we cant even do well) and with the credit crunch, less people are going to go to matches, the crowds will be on the down soon.

If we are gambling on players, id happly take scotland from swansea and wellens from donny.

Blackwell isn't the answer for this "Future success" we are being promised. It needs to change pretty soon or we will slip down the table.

Im shitting it for the wendy game, i dont think blackwell can get us going for it at all. It's not just something from the game last night, but has been snowballing over months this rant.

 

[Linz]

McCabe is another who has been lying. Where's this replacement for BT that he promised on the radio? put your money where your mouth is and stop buying clubs all over the world.

Just as a factual interlude... reading the annual report, the budgets for the playing staff and the budget for other areas remain completely separate. There's nothing to say that cutting the spending on these other areas will mean an increase of cash for players.

Tis here look:

 

[matth]

Interesting that Blackwell called Ward 'one for the future' and a 'development player'... and then threw him on against a local rival in what could be considered one of the bigger matches of the season.

Here's a tip, Kev. If you keep your mouth shut you won't be able to talk bullshit out of it.

 

[keenzy]

Just as a factual interlude... reading the annual report, the budgets for the playing staff and the budget for other areas remain completely separate. There's nothing to say that cutting the spending on these other areas will mean an increase of cash for players.

Tis here look:

Fair point, but i dont think it helps his cause buying teams all over the place when no money is being put into the team. If he's buying teams around the world, surely he can afford to inject some into the team to balance it out.

 

[matth]

Absolutely. And it sticks in the craw somewhat to see the achievements of Chengdu, Fradi and Central Coast Mariners splashed across the pages of the programme when we're crying out for some improvements at home.

 

[Foxy]

Interesting that Blackwell called Ward 'one for the future' and a 'development player'... and then threw him on against a local rival in what could be considered one of the bigger matches of the season.

Here's a tip, Kev. If you keep your mouth shut you won't be able to talk bullshit out of it.

I think it was more with the idea of playing down expectations on the lads shoulders. I think it was also meant as an indication to fans that he wasn't a ready direct replacement for Beattie.

I'd imagine he'd have told the lad to just go on and play his game, no pressure, learn about the players around you etc.

 

[Linz]

Fair point, but i dont think it helps his cause buying teams all over the place when no money is being put into the team. If he's buying teams around the world, surely he can afford to inject some into the team to balance it out.

You could argue we should all buy more shirts, as retail turnover fell 28%

Blades Realty is a joint venture with Scarborough bringing in £0.9million of profit for year ending June 2008 and has raised £5.3million pre-tax in total. This money is used to "strengthen on-field successes". We are using profit from some of our ventures to benefit the team.

Businessmen don't take things on if they can't see profit. Simply throwing money at the club would cause more issues than simply using profits from its ventures. At least the ventures are measurable and you have a better way of "guaranteeing" success than putting the same amount of money into a football team.

Not saying it's right, just thinking from a business perspective.

 

[matth]

I think it was more with the idea of playing down expectations on the lads shoulders. I think it was also meant as an indication to fans that he wasn't a ready direct replacement for Beattie.

I'd imagine he'd have told the lad to just go on and play his game, no pressure, learn about the players around you etc.

Whatever the reasoning, it was clearly a crock of horseshit. If he was really one for the future, and one to develop, we'd have him playing in the reserves for at least a bit, rather than chucking the lad in at the deep end. The timing wasn't great, to say the least, given the amount of 'spin' we've had to endure recently.

 

[Linz]

The timing wasn't great, to say the least, given the amount of 'spin' we've had to endure recently.

Aye... PR is one thing that United have never been very good at.

 

[keenzy]

You could argue we should all buy more shirts, as retail turnover fell 28%

Blades Realty is a joint venture with Scarborough bringing in £0.9million of profit for year ending June 2008 and has raised £5.3million pre-tax in total. This money is used to "strengthen on-field successes". We are using profit from some of our ventures to benefit the team.

Businessmen don't take things on if they can't see profit. Simply throwing money at the club would cause more issues than simply using profits from its ventures. At least the ventures are measurable and you have a better way of "guaranteeing" success than putting the same amount of money into a football team.

Not saying it's right, just thinking from a business perspective.

Football isn't a business... its not there for profit as few have been saying to BB about his shares.

McCabe talks about such a big fan he is, why dosen't he put some of his own money in?

 

[Foxy]

Football isn't a business... its not there for profit as few have been saying to BB about his shares.

How do you propose we run a football club without a half successful business?

McCabe talks about such a big fan he is, why dosen't he put some of his own money in?

He's put more of his own money in than you or me will ever earn. It's easy spending other peoples money, why don't you buy us a midfield?

 

[Linz]

Football isn't a business... its not there for profit as few have been saying to BB about his shares.

McCabe talks about such a big fan he is, why dosen't he put some of his own money in?

Unfortunately it is a business... like it or not. It's a business that people don't expect to make money out of.

Throw £30million at a team of players... and you have no idea what return you are going to get for that £30million. You could get promotion... £60million... or you could get staying where you are... no profit.

Invest £30million on a business and you have measurable ways of finding that it is more likely than not that you receive a modest profit. This is not so much of a gamble.

Also, by doing these things, McCabe is investing his money. Do you think he has £100 million in his back pocket to chuck at whatever he wants?

A lot of the money isn't just his, it's his family's. And it is tied up in things like property and other businesses. There might not be any spare cash to put towards an expensive hobby like United.

Look at Wednesday... they are having a great deal of trouble securing investment because there aren't enough fools to waste their money.

 

[keenzy]

He's put more of his own money in than you or me will ever earn. It's easy spending other peoples money, why don't you buy us a midfield?

If i could buy us a midfield i would. pretty much every penny i earn gets spent on united. If i had the money of McCabe id buy a midfield.

Unfortunately it is a business... like it or not. It's a business that people don't expect to make money out of.

Throw £30million at a team of players... and you have no idea what return you are going to get for that £30million. You could get promotion... £60million... or you could get staying where you are... no profit.

Invest £30million on a business and you have measurable ways of finding that it is more likely than not that you receive a modest profit. This is not so much of a gamble.

Also, by doing these things, McCabe is investing his money. Do you think he has £100 million in his back pocket to chuck at whatever he wants?

A lot of the money isn't just his, it's his family's. And it is tied up in things like property and other businesses. There might not be any spare cash to put towards an expensive hobby like United.

Look at Wednesday... they are having a great deal of trouble securing investment because there aren't enough fools to waste their money.

If i was McCabe, id throw £30million at the club regardless of the return because i love united and i want us to do well. His family are blades fans too so it wouldn't matter of the money being put in, their all "fans" He's secure for life and his family too, im sure he could put some more money in even if its a few million to get us a goal scorer.

Were still playing crap on the field and thats nothing to do with McCabe's money, more to the tactics.

 

[Linz]

If i was McCabe, id throw £30million at the club regardless of the return because i love united and i want us to do well. His family are blades fans too so it wouldn't matter of the money being put in, their all "fans" He's secure for life and his family too, im sure he could put some more money in even if its a few million to get us a goal scorer.

Were still playing crap on the field and thats nothing to do with McCabe's money, more to the tactics.

But we could spend £30 million on a player and he doesn't score for us. Why should he risk his money that way? It shouldn't all be about cash... look at Man City! And look at how much money our team was worth that got promoted.

Plus, you're ignoring the point I made about not having ready cash to chuck at whatever he wants. There's a difference between personal money and business money. You can't just take £100 million out of one of your businesses because you want to buy a new striker for another business you're involved with.

 

[keenzy]

But we could spend £30 million on a player and he doesn't score for us. Why should he risk his money that way? It shouldn't all be about cash... look at Man City!

Look at us with BT, paid out and got a goal scorer. It is all about the cash these days.

Plus, you're ignoring the point I made about not having ready cash to chuck at whatever he wants. There's a difference between personal money and business money. You can't just take £100 million out of one of your businesses because you want to buy a new striker for another business you're involved with.

So your saying, McCabe has every single penny tied up in business? he hasnt got an account with a good few million in he could put into the club to buy a player?
Were not talking about taking £100 million out, maybe £5million for 2 new players which im sure he could change from one business to another.

 

[Foxy]

Even if he could, he spends £30million on the side.... It doesn't work because the players we buy get injured or under perform... Within two weeks we are back to square one and the fans complain about him not throwing another £30million in... Or moan he's spent £30million on injured or rubbish players instead of relaying the pitch/sorting the catering etc etc

He can't win whichever way he plays it.

 

[keenzy]

Even if he could, he spends £30million on the side.... It doesn't work because the players we buy get injured or under perform... Within two weeks we are back to square one and the fans complain about him not throwing another £30million in... Or moan he's spent £30million on injured or rubbish players instead of relaying the pitch/sorting the catering etc etc

He can't win whichever way he plays it.

Why would it be McCabes fault? It would be the manager buying players with the money

 

[Foxy]

Look at us with BT, paid out and got a goal scorer. It is all about the cash these days.

and the goal scorer didn't solve our problems, was costing us a fortune and was labelled as "lazy, overpaid" etc

So your saying, McCabe has every single penny tied up in business? he hasnt got an account with a good few million in he could put into the club to buy a player?
Were not talking about taking £100 million out, maybe £5million for 2 new players which im sure he could change from one business to another.

However he's got it tied up, he's invested far more than any of us will ever be able to (unless we have any closet uber-successful business men/lottery winners)... He's under absolutely no obligation to pump even more of his own funds in, nor should we realistically expect or call for him to.

Investment isn't the root of our problems.

Why would it be McCabes fault? It would be the manager buying players with the money

Who employs the manager? who was it squared at when fans wanted our last one out?

 

[Linz]

he hasnt got an account with a good few million in he could put into the club to buy a player?

Probably not, because that would be subject to a hefty wedge of tax.

players which im sure he could change from one business to another.

I think you'll find that it's ever so slightly against the law..

There's a reason he owns businesses which are worth millions and we don't.

 

[Robbie]

Even if he could, he spends £30million on the side.... It doesn't work because the players we buy get injured or under perform... Within two weeks we are back to square one and the fans complain about him not throwing another £30million in... Or moan he's spent £30million on injured or rubbish players instead of relaying the pitch/sorting the catering etc etc

He can't win whichever way he plays it.

What's point in buying anyone then if that viewpoint is being used?

 

[keenzy]

and the goal scorer didn't solve our problems, was costing us a fortune and was labelled as "lazy, overpaid" etc

He was scoring goals, and all the evidence we have that he was costing a fortune is McCabe's word.....

Who employs the manager? who was it squared at when fans wanted our last one out?

True McCabe employs him, so is it McCabes fault we play crap football? he employs him so its all his fault

Probably not, because that would be subject to a hefty wedge of tax.

Would be less in different countries and spread out in different accounts.

I think you'll find that it's ever so slightly against the law..

I didn't know that it was against the law to sell stuff in a business to make funds in another?

 

[Linz]

What's point in buying anyone then if that viewpoint is being used?

We aren't buying anyone, so that's a moot point surely?

 

[Robbie]

We aren't buying anyone, so that's a moot point surely?

Touche .

 

[Foxy]

What's point in buying anyone then if that viewpoint is being used?

I wasn't stating it as a matter of fact... I was painting a possible scenario.

How many people have stated we have better players than Donny, who are higher paid?

It's not all about money, it's more than that.

 

[Linz]

Would be less in different countries and spread out in different accounts.

Doesn't mean it's all there to spend.

I didn't know that it was against the law to sell stuff in a business to make funds in another?

You're advocating a business, with its own shareholders who want to protect their interests, "giving" money to another business for no return.

You really don't know how businesses work do you?

 

[keenzy]

Doesn't mean it's all there to spend.



You're advocating a business, with its own shareholders who want to protect their interests, "giving" money to another business for no return.


You really don't know how businesses work do you?

So if he was to sell so much in one buisness and put it into his own account. then from a different account into another buisness that wouldn't work?

No i dont know how business works. Im not wanting a discussion about the running of and ins and outs, id go to school for it. I wanted a rant about us playing crap football and no money put into the team to buy a replacement he promised and not how he runs his company's TBH.

 

[Robbie]

I wasn't stating it as a matter of fact... I was painting a possible scenario.

Exactly, but if we think like that then we may as well just keep the players we have, shut down the academy too because they might get injured as soon as they play....

In fact - let's just shut the club down of course this is all said tongue in cheek. But we can't have the thinking that if we signed someone they may get injured....

 

[beightonblade]

Its a good job the management on McCabes property concerns are better than the management on the football side of things........................

deary me.....................................................

 

[Linz]

So if he was to sell so much in one buisness and put it into his own account. then from a different account into another buisness that wouldn't work?

Nope, because personal assets and business assets are separate in incorporated companies. If a company sold something, the money would belong to the company. Not the man who owned the company.

All the shareholders would have a say in what this money would be used for. If they didn't like what the company planned to do with the money, they would withdraw their investments and the company would crumble. A limited company does not operate to the whims of one man.

If someone used company money to buy themselves something for their personal use, it would constitute fraud.

No i dont know how business works. Im not wanting a discussion about the running of and ins and outs, id go to school for it. I wanted a rant about us playing crap football and no money put into the team to buy a replacement he promised and not how he runs his company's TBH.

Fair enough. I'm just telling you that what you're ranting about can't happen because of the reasons I've stated.

 

[beightonblade]

McCabes got a good set of accountants................you can bet on that.

As a multi national businessman McCabes & Co's assets and money could be transfered pretty easy if he wanted to ............