Tyler Durden
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Perfectly valid point when the two who don't go are also the two who try telling everyone else that they're wrong on a regular basis. Based on 2nd/3rd hand information.
The Clough Factor
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Perfectly valid point when the two who don't go are also the two who try telling everyone else that they're wrong on a regular basis. Based on 2nd/3rd hand information.
1danewhitehouse
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Who? Are you getting mixed up with Conor Washington who was sold by Peterborough before they dropped down the table?
Bladesway
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In some ways if you are analysing individual performance perhaps but if you are looking at statistics and a longer term view (Like why are we so shit) I'd disagree.
Take your point though.
Bladesway
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If they get promoted you will be wrong. If you don't you will be right. Agreed?
Grecian2000
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El Khayati, scored the winner on Saturday for QPR. Still Burton's top scorer despite being sold in January. Not getting mixed up with anyone.
"Wheels came off as soon as he started bringing in dead wood signings from Derby etc,and changing things to accommodate them,is Mason Bennett more of a improvement over the forwards that were let go,sorry the answer is no!"
I pulled this quote from the Burton board as it had an all too familiar ring to it. It's a shame that despite some fantastic days and nights in the cup, I remember Clough more for things like the above. Throw in some other factors like an illogical approach to recruitment, an unrealistic assessment of some pretty woeful home and away results and that week in week out feeling that nothing was really ever going to happen till the second half and I've got to honest, as bad as we've been at times this year, at least we've moved on from that.
I pulled this quote from the Burton board as it had an all too familiar ring to it. It's a shame that despite some fantastic days and nights in the cup, I remember Clough more for things like the above. Throw in some other factors like an illogical approach to recruitment, an unrealistic assessment of some pretty woeful home and away results and that week in week out feeling that nothing was really ever going to happen till the second half and I've got to honest, as bad as we've been at times this year, at least we've moved on from that.
FriethBlade
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'At least we've moved on from that'.....are you sure, a whole season to move on and we are 10th with a manager wetting himself cus we held mighty Gillingham to a 0-0 draw showing lots of 'endeavour and hard work'.
Facts are Clough cleared up a bigger mess from Weir and took us from second bottom to 7th then 5th. Adkins now has us 10th if that's moving on I'd rather move backwards
Facts are Clough cleared up a bigger mess from Weir and took us from second bottom to 7th then 5th. Adkins now has us 10th if that's moving on I'd rather move backwards
Clough without doubt cleared up the mess made by Weir and after a humbling at Crewe he turned us right around, winning in the cup, moving up the leagues and I think best of all, lifted the fans and brought an atmosphere back to the lane for the first time in a while. I was confident in pre season he'd build on this and get us promoted.
I wasn't particularly convinced however when his recruitment began and Alcock, Basham, Campbell-Ryce and Wallace to name but a few walked through the door, Coady never returned and Maguire left that would be the case. Even more so when you throw, Higdon, Freeman and an array of others we've spent this season trying to trim the inflated squad of too.
Positionally, Clough absolutely has out performed Adkins, have I enjoyed this season, not really. Did I enjoy last season not really either. I do however prefer knowing that despite our deficiencies we'll be going into games trying to score at any time as opposed to holding onto a 0-0 till the second half before attempting to grind out a 1-0 though or spending 80 minutes behind before going hell for leather in the last ten to try and salvage a result. As for the play offs, we stumbled there, lost the first leg before being 3-0 down after twenty minutes of the second, only making the score look reasonably acceptable with two late goals when we were 7-4 behind on aggregate. For all it achieved, we might as well have finished 10th.
1danewhitehouse
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How else would you go about choosing a manager to do a job? I would look at their performance throughout their career to get an idea of the type and calibre of manager they are. Good managers don't become bad ones overnight. But all are human and come with no guarantees they will get it right straight away.
1danewhitehouse
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I'd say the mitigating circumstances are
(a) Having a squad return for pre-season training in poor condition/ injured
(b) Having a large imbalanced squad
(c) Having our best player sold at the start of the seasoon
(d) Having only spent around a third of fees generated by outgoing transfers.
(e) (Almost certainly) reducing the wage bill throughout the season with a gradual exodus of players once they are fit and we can find someone to take them.
Easily enough to explain away the minimal regression from last season. Clough regressed in terms of performance last season from the season before having lost Maguire even though he was able to bring loads of players in to try to compensate.
Barney
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It was largely agreed at the end of last season that 4 or 5 key additions and that squad would be challenging for automatic promotion. This remained the case even after we sold Murphy, because as big a loss as it was, the squad we was left, provided we got in those key players, was still widely expected to be up there challenging. We never got in those key players which is why we have gone 5 places backwards.
1danewhitehouse
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Ah fair enough. Didn't realise he'd gone to QPR.
That makes the second half of the season all the more understandable if they've sold one of their top players. There's a pattern developing.
Clough comes in and does well
Maguire sold- Clough does a bit worse
Clough gone and Murphy sold- we do a bit worse.
Clough takes over from JFH who as done well- El Khayati sold, they do a bit worse.
I know it's too much for some of the managerial geniuses on here but I think there could be some correlation between the sale of better players and the decrease in average points gained per game.
1danewhitehouse
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Agreed. 4-5 top quality signings might have done it. If we'd been prepared to spend the sort of sum we spent on Sharp 4 or 5 times we might have assembled a promotion squad. Unfortunately got one "proper" singer (a player we bought from another club) and then relied on loans part way through the season, a free agent on the scrap heap etc. Shame Adkins wasn't afforded the sort of backing Clough was.
Sean Thornton
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"I know it's too much for some of the managerial geniuses on here but I think there could be some correlation between the sale of better players and the decrease in average points gained per game."
Why has no one thought of this before?
Bartleby
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he was sacked by Southampton, while doing pretty well in the Premier League, in Jan 2013. Two and a half years is hardly well bygone.
So who would you have in his place? Wilder, based on a couple of lower league promotions in 15 years as a manager? (admittedly the later one isn't bygone).
Seem to recall you were behind Adkins appointment after Clough was sacked - I recall a conversation where we both said we hoped we got Adkins and not Parkinson (and while I may look with a little envy at Bradford's position now I have to remind myself he has been there for 5 years).
Barney
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It was perfectly doable in the format we did it. 2 permanents, 1 on a free, 1 on a fee. And then 3 loans. It's just unfortunate they weren't the right players. I do agree that it could have been made easier. I also agree that he hasn't been backed as much as Clough was.
PeteBlade
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Facts are Clough had a bigger remit, bigger budget snd complete freedom to sign whoever he liked. Including £1.5m on a left back.
Adkins has been able to permanently sign 2 people. One on a free.
Bladesman
The Great Grumbleduke
Not sure why you bother arguing the toss with either of them.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion obviusly but it's clear they were never going to give Adkins a chance from day one. You can tell the likes of Barney seem to love it when we lose a match as it is a step closer to Adkins getting sacked.
It's no surprise that even a Southampton fan can come on here and spot Barney's bullshit straight away.
PeteBlade
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I also really like how because it was "widely agreed" (by fans on here) that we only needed to make 4 signings to be challenging for the automatic places then that is definitely all that was needed.
BushBlade
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Left back?
1danewhitehouse
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PeteBlade
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Finn Keane o' Balmaqueen
We defy you! Do your worst!
Dead easy this management game.
Fully expect it to be on the list of jobs in the West Street JobCentre when Adkins goes.
Fully expect it to be on the list of jobs in the West Street JobCentre when Adkins goes.
Barney
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The question I put to you too hard for you then? I didn't state it was a fact because of that, merely suggesting that was the majority view. I wonder what you were saying this pre-season. We'll never know because you've "forgot".
Woodwardfan
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Southampton sold all their best players throughout their rise to where they are today. Why? Because they had no alternative.
Sean Thornton
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Sean Thornton
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Large fees that were pretty wisely invested in new players and a very good academy bringing players into the first team though.
They did have an alternative. They didn't have to sell them. And I know they had financial trouble but it annoys me when clubs roll over and throw their hands up in the air apparently with no control over their assets leaving. If they want to leave, stick them in the reserves till they remember their place. You don't just have to sell them if they are under contract.
Woodwardfan
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That's the key.
The first stage of selling better players is inevitable.
The second stage is where success is achieved.
Always respect both stages, something people choose to ignore/ forget.
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