The case for the defence - or lack of it?

[Fulwood Blade]

Leaving Howard out of the equation, Our defence appears to be the major issue with the team at the moment.

Our last 4 league games (leaving Gillingham aside) has seen us score 6 goals and get 1 point. Scoring 2 goals away in the last two games should have guaranteed us at least a sharing of the points - sadly it did not.

So what do we have?

Alcock - probably nailed on as no competition at RB, but used at CH - strange.
Collins - unpredictable - always has been.
Mcgahey - young, raw and MIGHT make a decent defender in a few years. Gives the ball away a lot.
Butler - player of year at Walsall, should be good enough - so what has REALLY happened - very strange.
Mccarthy - brought in to stem the flow - bit of a gamble for a player who is clearly no where near match fit.
Mceverly - seems steady - did ok at CH yesterday, but is his another strange punt by the management.
Harris - gone off from last season, jury is still out on him with supporters.

After having a nailed on, always playing back four last year, the complete opposite this year, appears to have had a dramatic effect on the front 6 players. We appear to be giving them too much to do.

One thing is certain, and I praise Karl Robinson's comments on Sky yesterday that if we play like the 2nd half then "We would win the league", but ONLY, if we stop conceding silly, stupid, comical goals. Sorry but "luck" doesn't come in to football anywhere. The word is being solid.

With our QUALITY midfield and forwards, all we need is a defence that gives us 6 or 7 out of 10 each week from each of them and we will go up.

So what is wrong? and how would you solve the problem?

Discuss.............

 

[Deadbat]

I think you have summed it up. Not one of those can say they are a definite regular. All have been really inconsistent all season. This his lad to chopping and changing and never having a settled back four. This will continue when McCarthy goes back. Clough has no idea who his best team/back four is. That is poor management but to defend him he cannot help it if players keep making mistakes every week.

The reality is that all of the above are distinctly average. None are dominating players. None are very quick and none of them are that great on the ball. Sadly they are a very ordinary collection of players. When one plays well, another is poor and makes a mistake. They have rotated the mistakes around hence it being hard for Clough to keep that same core together. You can argue if he keeps changing it they have not had a chance to gel and I would say he is taking players out for odd reasons at times (Collins, Butler) rather than for out and out howlers (Harris earlier in the season).

One thing I would say is for all the praise Howard seems to get from Clough he has been at fault for quite a few goals for me and when teams are scoring with pretty much every shot they have on goal which has been case for a lot of recent games (Gills, Swindon, Chesterfield, Orient) then that is a concern for me. I am not sure Howard is quite the commanding keeper many seem to think. I personally still believe this is an area we need to improve but grated other areas are getting more discussion at the moment. The game yesterday was poor and we were poor but they did not look like scoring and then he gifts them a goal. I was unsure if neither Howard or Long were good enough in the summer and nothing has changed my opinion of that.

 

[bartman]

Leaving Howard out of the equation, Our defence appears to be the major issue with the team at the moment.

Our last 4 league games (leaving Gillingham aside) has seen us score 6 goals and get 1 point. Scoring 2 goals away in the last two games should have guaranteed us at least a sharing of the points - sadly it did not.

So what do we have?

Alcock - probably nailed on as no competition at RB, but used at CH - strange.
Collins - unpredictable - always has been.
Mcgahey - young, raw and MIGHT make a decent defender in a few years. Gives the ball away a lot.
Butler - player of year at Walsall, should be good enough - so what has REALLY happened - very strange.
Mccarthy - brought in to stem the flow - bit of a gamble for a player who is clearly no where near match fit.
Mceverly - seems steady - did ok at CH yesterday, but is his another strange punt by the management.
Harris - gone off from last season, jury is still out on him with supporters.

After having a nailed on, always playing back four last year, the complete opposite this year, appears to have had a dramatic effect on the front 6 players. We appear to be giving them too much to do.

One thing is certain, and I praise Karl Robinson's comments on Sky yesterday that if we play like the 2nd half then "We would win the league", but ONLY, if we stop conceding silly, stupid, comical goals. Sorry but "luck" doesn't come in to football anywhere. The word is being solid.

With our QUALITY midfield and forwards, all we need is a defence that gives us 6 or 7 out of 10 each week from each of them and we will go up.

So what is wrong? and how would you solve the problem?


Discuss.............

I think NC needs to decide on his back 4 and stick to it. I was impressed with McEverley yesterday. He is quicker than Collins and his distribution is usually positive> McCarthy,despite his sluggish start will improve with match fitness and I hope we keep him beyond his initial month. Alcock was dissapointing fyesterday but is generally OK and Harris is OK for this level. Stick with these for the next four games so they can settle .

In front of the I think with have missed Davies and I would prefer him to Flynn. I would also play JCR on the wing with Murphy playing just behind McNulty. Baxter doesn't look back to fitness yet and Scougill is not playing well.

 

[sitwell]

He needs to be strong and give players a run in the side even to gain form ,Macarthy going back will mean another change in a couple of weeks ,unless he has something lined up. Personally I would stick with Alcock-Collins-Magahey-Harris with Mceveley to come in Make a decision to try or replace Butler and stick with it.

 

[Trigger Blade]

I can't work out why we're leaking goals when individually, the described above should be plenty good enough for this level.

As far as Howard is concerned, in the last two games the statistics say the opposition have had three shots on target and scored three goals. I haven't seen yesterday's goals but RS said their first one wasn't even really a shot and they still scored, thanks to Howard's assist

I'm still unsure about Howard too, he seems to command his area OK, is decent with crosses, but sometimes gets beaten when I think he shouldn't, the second (McCarthy error) at Chessie last week, it was the tightest of angles for the attacker.

 

[sitwell]

The first one took him by surprise ,the shot should have been defended but he did fumble ,he had no chance with the second.

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

The major issue with the team is its inability to take chances when we're on top and make our pressure on the opposition count. Goals will inevitably be conceded at the other end if you keep doing that.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

He needs to be strong and give players a run in the side even to gain form ,Macarthy going back will mean another change in a couple of weeks ,unless he has something lined up. Personally I would stick with Alcock-Collins-Magahey-Harris with Mceveley to come in Make a decision to try or replace Butler and stick with it.

I think sitters you are right here - NC has to be strong now, not only with the defence but in a general way with the front 5 or 6. He should know by now his preferred 11, with possibility of minor tweaks to suit certain opposition. If that means crowd favourites like Scoogs/Higdon/Flynn/Baxter playing cameo roles then so be it. Personally I would have Baxter in the team, but only if he remains fit - he seems too much of an enigma.

He should be strong with McCarthy - he's either here for a 2 month extension, or there is zero point in playing him. We are not in the game of getting him fit for Colin.

To sum up - we desperately need continuity and stability now as the season is just beginning to slowly drift away.

Come on Cloughie, 19K on Saturday for a team that is playing very average and is splitting supporters - don't give up this tremendous support that is just waiting to help the team to another level. You are not far off us being really UNITED

UTB

 

[itsinyerblood]

I think sitters you are right here - NC has to be strong now, not only with the defence but in a general way with the front 5 or 6. He should know by now his preferred 11, with possibility of minor tweaks to suit certain opposition. If that means crowd favourites like Scoogs/Higdon/Flynn/Baxter playing cameo roles then so be it. Personally I would have Baxter in the team, but only if he remains fit - he seems too much of an enigma.

He should be strong with McCarthy - he's either here for a 2 month extension, or there is zero point in playing him. We are not in the game of getting him fit for Colin.

To sum up - we desperately need continuity and stability now as the season is just beginning to slowly drift away.

Come on Cloughie, 19K on Saturday for a team that is playing very average and is splitting supporters - don't give up this tremendous support that is just waiting to help the team to another level. You are not far off us being really UNITED

UTB

Good post FB. I read elsewhere that a poster considered Baxter a luxury simply because, as talented as he is, he has a tendency to slow play down, rather than contribute to the quick passing game that we've shown we're capable of playing. Sometimes certain players are shoe-ins for the first eleven, but that depends on their consistency and quality of performance. If the blame for our current level of uncertain form is the players, as in they're not following NC's instructions, then NC needs to make sure that they either do what they're paid to do, or someone else will take their place.

 

[blade too long]

as I live in Spain , how long did the overtime board say there was to play ,,, was it 9 minutes ?

 

[Fulwood Blade]

as I live in Spain , how long did the overtime board say there was to play ,,, was it 9 minutes ?

it was 7 - never seen 7 before at BDTBL.

Personally I thought the ref was excellent, and if more refs got "timewasting" spot on like this one, then you wouldn't get teams trying it on.

The booking of their goalkeeper was a classic case of time wasting - saw the ball rolling to him, bent down to ajust his socks and it rolled past him.....tosser. Hate to see it from my team.

While I am at it -the main issue I have these days is players that stand over the ball at free kicks - just fuck off back - if UEFA/FIFA could sort this out I am sure it would please most fans. BTW - can you not take a quick free kick these day? Seems as though the ref points his whistle to players meaning "wait for this".

UTB

 

[blade too long]

no footballers are all thick , hes saying this is called a whistle

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

We do need a settled back four , but as mentioned previously ,we do get punished for every silly mistake we make . Is it also down to the level of coaching / instructions , which presumably Chris Morgan , (with Mr Clough ) ,sorts out with the defenders in training. The expectations by all , are so high that not getting promotion this year will be a major failure especially after 4 seasons in league 1. Is the answer to solving the problem , already on the pay roll ,which is bringing Butler back . He would provide the experience , commanding stature , and vocal organisation , we are lacking . A personality clash between Mr Clough and Butler is now having a adverse effect on the team. Mr Clough has been tweaking with the side since pre season . It is now time to show us all what a good manager he is , man manage , and the players take responsibility on there shoulders and , start being consistent
in there approach and decision making on the field.

UTB

 

[IOM Blade]

How to solve our defensive issues? Not selling our best defender would help.

'We will only sell if it's in the best interest of the football club'

 

[Fulwood Blade]

How to solve our defensive issues? Not selling our best defender would help.

'We will only sell if it's in the best interest of the football club'

but that's the easy answer - We should never have sold Alan Birchenall or Mick Jones for £100K each but we did.

We are close to a good team, but it needs the defence sorting. We can easily score 2 goals EVERY game, but how do we stop them going in the other end?

UTB

 

[wizadry]

but that's the easy answer - We should never have sold Alan Birchenall or Mick Jones for £100K each but we did.

We are close to a good team, but it needs the defence sorting. We can easily score 2 goals EVERY game, but how do we stop them going in the other end?

UTB

It might be the easy answer but it's the right one imo.

The answer to your question though is quite an easy one really,we need to stop doing so many daft errors,and the only way to do that is by concentrating in every minute of every game,this is one of the differences between your very good defenders or your not so good ones,concentration.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Harry has gone due to money . Brayford is not coming back. The guy from Palace McCarthy is a short term fix . Mr Clough has to bring back Butler to resolve a defensive problem , which changing the back four every week is only making the matter worse. We are a nats away from a good side , but not having the spine of the team right ( centre half and a good centre forward ) will come back to bite us by missing out on promotion yet again. Mr Clough will know this , and will i am sure ,sort it . His job and reputation will be on the line if not , along with Mr Clough brother . The board cannot be blamed for footballing decisions Mr Clough makes .

UTB

 

[Lane Ender]

He needs to be strong and give players a run in the side even to gain form ,Macarthy going back will mean another change in a couple of weeks ,unless he has something lined up. Personally I would stick with Alcock-Collins-Magahey-Harris with Mceveley to come in Make a decision to try or replace Butler and stick with it.

Or kiss and make up with Butler and get him back pronto

 

[bornablade]

Defence? No. No. No. Surely not. For months all the experts on here have been crying out for us to sign a striker. And now apparently the problem wasn't about signing a striker but is about the defence.

I hope Cloughie and his team don't adopt this crisis management that will only lead to irrational decision making.

 

[metalblade]

Harry has gone due to money . Brayford is not coming back. The guy from Palace McCarthy is a short term fix . Mr Clough has to bring back Butler to resolve a defensive problem , which changing the back four every week is only making the matter worse. We are a nats away from a good side , but not having the spine of the team right ( centre half and a good centre forward ) will come back to bite us by missing out on promotion yet again. Mr Clough will know this , and will i am sure ,sort it . His job and reputation will be on the line if not , along with Mr Clough brother . The board cannot be blamed for footballing decisions Mr Clough makes .

UTB

McCarthy is not a fix just yet, just another problem from what I have seen why did we bring him in for a month ? in two weeks we have to change things around yet again. Nothing I have seen in Butler to suggest he is the answer either I don't know where we were looking when we saw him as a replacement for Maguire. We need a quality CB on a long term loan and then get someone permanent in the JTW, not forgetting we still need that 20+ goal striker

 

[sitwell]

Or kiss and make up with Butler and get him back pronto

yes I did mean or instead of and actually.

 

[Deadbat]

I watched the two goals and Howard was badly at fault for the first. It was a simple catch and how he made such a mess of it is beyond me. As for the second I felt I had been a bit harsh thinking that he had any chance but I watched it back. The header was free and shocking marking but was headed in.from just inside the six yard box. A dominant keeper would expect to claim.or punch any crossrs into that area. More than that it is a concern that other teams are scoring with most of their attempts on goal. Of course general confusio and changing players round in front is not helping but I dont think we are as strong in that position as sone feel.

 

[metalblade]

Said it all along Howard is bang average, for every game that he pulls off heroics he has one where he makes mistakes, just unfortunate that at the moment every mistake is being punished.

 

[LSF]

Howard is the best keeper weve had for some while. The best players make mistakes, the best keepers make mistakes, Howards general standards are good and I feel reasonably confident in his presence whilst accepting like all keepers he'll make the odd error which occasionally proves costly.

 

[sitwell]

Howard is the best keeper weve had for some while. The best players make mistakes, the best keepers make mistakes, Howards general standards are good and I feel reasonably confident in his presence whilst accepting like all keepers he'll make the odd error which occasionally proves costly.

Not allowed if your Howard or Flynn apparently.

 

[crucialkneeligaman]

Howard is the best keeper weve had for some while. The best players make mistakes, the best keepers make mistakes, Howards general standards are good and I feel reasonably confident in his presence whilst accepting like all keepers he'll make the odd error which occasionally proves costly.

Your right LSF, Howards okay, keepers make odd ricks, best we are going to get at this level certainly, don't have a problem with him.

 

[OllyBlade]

Said it elsewhere but it is proving a horrible mistake not having some backbone over Maguire. Too many of our fans downplayed his achievements by doubting his ability to make it at a higher level, without acknowledging that at this level he was consistently the best player in his position in the whole league.

 

[IOM Blade]

It's still very early but it's looking more and more likely that the decision to let Harry go will cost us promotion. The club make the same mistake year after year.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I watched the two goals and Howard was badly at fault for the first. It was a simple catch and how he made such a mess of it is beyond me. As for the second I felt I had been a bit harsh thinking that he had any chance but I watched it back. The header was free and shocking marking but was headed in.from just inside the six yard box. A dominant keeper would expect to claim.or punch any crossrs into that area. More than that it is a concern that other teams are scoring with most of their attempts on goal. Of course general confusio and changing players round in front is not helping but I dont think we are as strong in that position as sone feel.

Goalkeepers don't like balls that bounce right in front of them and the Orient player that Doyle was marking threw his foot forward, almost connecting with the ball, which would also have disturbed Howard a bit. But in spite of this, it was a mistake and he will be disappointed.

For the header it seems McNulty, JCR and Murphy are not marking anyone in particular, as well as Harris and Flynn on the posts. So we have five available markers left, but Orient have seven players in our box. If McNulty's the zone man he should have been a bit further back.

 

[KPO]

Goalkeepers don't like balls that bounce right in front of them and the Orient player that Doyle was marking threw his foot forward, almost connecting with the ball, which would also have disturbed Howard a bit. But in spite of this, it was a mistake and he will be disappointed.

From where I was sat directly behind the cross, it looked as though the forward did get a slight touch on the ball, although it isn't clear from the video.