The case for George Long.

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finlaytheblade said:
Your a hard taskmaster Sitwell !where are we to find a keeper better than George he's not the finished product yet but is a real good keeper
we have got priorities but keeper isn't one.We have another young keeper coming through,Ramsdale who's just signed his first pro contract,seen him a few times and he could be pushing George in a couple of years.
Howards contract is up in the summer so it is possible we are looking for a new keeper but to right George off is ridiculous.
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There would be plenty better keepers out there than George.
He still makes mistakes daily, his kicking is quite poor and he's very vulnerable to shots from long range.

We're still conceding goals at an alarming rate so let's not kid ourselves he's top class.

Yes he's improved in recent weeks and no longer looks like a rabbit caught in headlights, but he's still a weak link.
 



PeteBlade said:
There would be plenty better keepers out there than George.
He still makes mistakes daily, his kicking is quite poor and he's very vulnerable to shots from long range.

We're still conceding goals at an alarming rate so let's not kid ourselves he's top class.

Yes he's improved in recent weeks and no longer looks like a rabbit caught in headlights, but he's still a weak link.
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Disagree he's a weak link. He's a young lad learning and has been a big part in our improvement in defence. It's no longer the case that every free kick in target or every half chance ends up in the back of our goal.
 
dannysufc_ said:
Disagree he's a weak link. He's a young lad learning and has been a big part in our improvement in defence. It's no longer the case that every free kick in target or every half chance ends up in the back of our goal.
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We've conceded 6 goals in our last 2 league games.
I get there was an improvement before that for a month but we're still conceding goals for fun.
 
Woodwardfan said:
Six months since the O.P. and not many detractors these days, not like 6 months ago above.

Pleased for the lad and the club and also the manager who made a big call.
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He's getting better and better.

I thought it was significant Satdi when he came off his line to smother a through ball.

One very good save last night - at least.

I think the back five are getting used to working with each other, and he's obviously a big part of that.

Someone said that he might drop a major clanger at some point - but I think he's got enough credit, hopefully, for it not to affect him.

cl_major.gif


UTMB
 
dannysufc_ said:
Disagree he's a weak link. He's a young lad learning and has been a big part in our improvement in defence. It's no longer the case that every free kick in target or every half chance ends up in the back of our goal.
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When the ultimate aim is promotion , you cannot allow time for learning , especially a key position as a goalkeeper. Harsh , but a first class goalkeeper even at league 1 level , can be worth 12 points.

Adkins keeps banging the drum of putting them in at one end and stopping them going in at the other. Still not sorted yet IMO.

UTB
 
PeteBlade said:
We've conceded 6 goals in our last 2 league games.
I get there was an improvement before that for a month but we're still conceding goals for fun.
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I wasn't there last night, but for their third, a shot came in and it looked to me like a catch for George. He didn't, he palmed it out into a dangerous area and then let in a shot where he didn't need to dive, but it went under him anyway.

I think he's vastly improved, he has made some excellent saves in recent games, but my uneducated instinct is that he still makes basic errors, more than he should, at his age and with his experience.
 
Trigger Blade said:
I wasn't there last night, but for their third, a shot came in and it looked to me like a catch for George. He didn't, he palmed it out into a dangerous area and then let in a shot where he didn't need to dive, but it went under him anyway.

I think he's vastly improved, he has made some excellent saves in recent games, but my uneducated instinct is that he still makes basic errors, more than he should, at his age and with his experience.
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Me too and I'm also uneducated with the specifics of goalkeeping but he makes me nervous to watch and I have no confidence in him, which I can only assume the back 4/5 are the same.
 
PeteBlade said:
We've conceded 6 goals in our last 2 league games.
I get there was an improvement before that for a month but we're still conceding goals for fun.
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I'll give you that the 3rd goal against Wigan could possible have been stopped but the rest were all very good finishes which the defence shouldn't have let get through.

He's saved our bacon several times, as well. He made a few saves tuesday that Howard wouldn't have saved.
 
dannysufc_ said:
I'll give you that the 3rd goal against Wigan could possible have been stopped but the rest were all very good finishes which the defence shouldn't have let get through.

He's saved our bacon several times, as well. He made a few saves tuesday that Howard wouldn't have saved.
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But as a keeper, he's supposed to make saves. I don't class this as 'saving our bacon' just as I don't class Done's equaliser as doing the same.

In my opinion, he makes the entire defence nervous.
 
I think you are all missing the point on why the thread has come to the top again. Like the Billy Sharp thread, it's woodwardfan telling everone how right he was.
 
PeteBlade said:
But as a keeper, he's supposed to make saves. I don't class this as 'saving our bacon' just as I don't class Done's equaliser as doing the same.

In my opinion, he makes the entire defence nervous.
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He is, but not every keeper can save every shot. And George saves his fair share. We won't find many better in this division shot stopping wise and he's got a lot stronger from corners and stuff too.

In my opinion, the defence would make keeper nervous so it's a double edged sword. We've known we need a centre half for 18 months and still havent got one, get one, a Morgan type, and watch him flourish. Just like he did with Maguire infront of him.
 
dannysufc_ said:
He is, but not every keeper can save every shot. And George saves his fair share. We won't find many better in this division shot stopping wise and he's got a lot stronger from corners and stuff too.

In my opinion, the defence would make keeper nervous so it's a double edged sword. We've known we need a centre half for 18 months and still havent got one, get one, a Morgan type, and watch him flourish. Just like he did with Maguire infront of him.
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I definitely agree about the centre back, but not replacing players has been our problem for a decade.

As for shot stopping, he seems to let in more long range shots then I've ever known another keeper doing.
 
I was at Wigan and have been to all the home games recently. I don't think George could do much about the first two, the first was unfortunate after the ref got in the way which wrong footed the defence and the second was poor defensive marking. The third one he maybe could have done better but then maybe so could the defence who allowed the first player to waltz round them for the first shot and let another get the rebound. George made two very good saves that were both effectively one on ones after being let down again by poor defending. The point about him making the defence nervous - well that didn't appear to be the case against Coventry or Bradford or apparently even Manchester United. Can't comment about his communication skills and perhaps that may be an area for him to improve on, I don't know.

Ideally, I think if we can let Howard go at the end of the season and recruit an older experienced keeper to not only give George competition but also so he can benefit from the older keepers experience.
 
PeteBlade said:
As for shot stopping, he seems to let in more long range shots then I've ever known another keeper doing.
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I can think of one goalkeeper in the squad that lets in more. Genuinely don't understand that particular criticism of Long based on his current run in the side, and I'm by no means a particular supporter of either keeper as a first-choice option.
 



Is it worth noting that Long has played 5 to Howard's 2 in the games where we have conceded 3 or more including 2 games where we conceded 4? Is that because Howard communicates better with the Defence? Long is certainly the better shot-stopper for me though.

For what it's worth, I think he's improving and Howard is the one to replace with someone who may displace George but George can keep growing and improving whether he holds onto the shirt or not.
 
George Long in absolute no man's land for Colchester's equaliser.

Comes off his line, gets no where near the ball and then unable to do anything for the header.

A basic error from someone who's not a young kid anymore.
 
PeteBlade said:
George Long in absolute no man's land for Colchester's equaliser.

Comes off his line, gets no where near the ball and then unable to do anything for the header.

A basic error from someone who's not a young kid anymore.
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I don't think anyone can argue differently on that. What I would say is that he probably made up for it with his overall handling for the other 89 minutes – and his contribution for Sharp's goal.
 
PeteBlade suggests we discuss Long's progress and need to progress from where he is now.

All in all he's done well since this O.P. was written and can look forward to being 1st choice at the start of next season, progress indeed.

Two main areas for improvement though:

1. Coming out for crosses and he is showing signs of being bolder. Against Gillingham he misjudged one early but I'm sure the coaches will be applauding him for getting out there competing. It should always be on the understanding that he'll win 7/8 out of 10 and might give the odd goal away with an unlucky outcome.

2. Being more assertive in claiming loose balls in the area. We in the stands should be hearing him demanding the ball as his.

I also think he should be making more saves outside his natural arc but that will come. Technically he is a good keeper within his range but he hesitates to push himself beyond his comfort zone. Personality wise he may be cautious and he needs to change to get better.
 
Woodwardfan said:
PeteBlade suggests we discuss Long's progress and need to progress from where he is now.

All in all he's done well since this O.P. was written and can look forward to being 1st choice at the start of next season, progress indeed.

Two main areas for improvement though:

1. Coming out for crosses and he is showing signs of being bolder. Against Gillingham he misjudged one early but I'm sure the coaches will be applauding him for getting out there competing. It should always be on the understanding that he'll win 7/8 out of 10 and might give the odd goal away with an unlucky outcome.

2. Being more assertive in claiming loose balls in the area. We in the stands should be hearing him demanding the ball as his.

I also think he should be making more saves outside his natural arc but that will come. Technically he is a good keeper within his range but he hesitates to push himself beyond his comfort zone. Personality wise he may be cautious and he needs to change to get better.
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I've been generally pleased with how he's progressed – coming back from Gillingham I thought his United career might be over, such was the degree his confidence had been shattered, so the fact he was able to manage that and ultimately force himself back in is a credit to him. It would have been interesting to see what Adkins would have done had Howard not predictably gone a bit wrong – his poor performances made the decision to restore Long an easier one. Had Howard not been so poor we might have otherwise been talking about how Long was nailed-on to be released. I still feel like the occasional clanger is always there in his game, but I'm more confident than I was last summer, and I've liked the occasionally effective punts up to Sharp on the counter.

I stand by what I said last summer that we ideally wanted someone in better than Long & Howard. That being said, we have to recognise that we have a budget where we need to spend carefully this summer. Spending on a keeper inevitably means less to spend elsewhere – I think Long has done just about enough to continue in the role, which raises the question of what we do for a back-up. Can't see it being anything other than a freebie.
 
LoughboroBlade said:
I've been generally pleased with how he's progressed – coming back from Gillingham I thought his United career might be over, such was the degree his confidence had been shattered, so the fact he was able to manage that and ultimately force himself back in is a credit to him. It would have been interesting to see what Adkins would have done had Howard not predictably gone a bit wrong – his poor performances made the decision to restore Long an easier one. Had Howard not been so poor we might have otherwise been talking about how Long was nailed-on to be released. I still feel like the occasional clanger is always there in his game, but I'm more confident than I was last summer, and I've liked the occasionally effective punts up to Sharp on the counter.

I stand by what I said last summer that we ideally wanted someone in better than Long & Howard. That being said, we have to recognise that we have a budget where we need to spend carefully this summer. Spending on a keeper inevitably means less to spend elsewhere – I think Long has done just about enough to continue in the role, which raises the question of what we do for a back-up. Can't see it being anything other than a freebie.
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What if some club offered us £700k?
 
Woodwardfan said:
What if some club offered us £700k?
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If some club offered us £700k and we were guaranteed to reinvest the cash into the first team elsewhere, I'd take it. Unfortunately we do the accept bids bit of that last sentence quite well – less so the latter part...
 



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