The big problem if we keep Clough this summer...

[zablade]

Is that he is going to be under almost intolerable pressure from game one, I think just talking to people and looking at social media he has lost the faith of the majority (perhaps not yet the vast majoity) of the fan base.

A large number of people have said "keep Clough, but we must be in top two contention from the off next season or he should go before xmas" and here is is the problem... whoever the manager is next season I am of the opinion we will not be in contention for the top two next season.

We are a goalkeeper, virtually a full defensive unit, two midfielders and a centre forward away from having a top two side. We aren't going to rectify those issues in one transfer window, may be two but more likely three.

So if your criteria is only stick with Clough if we are in contention from the off next season then you may as well get rid now, because we will be getting rid come the late Autumn. If we stick with Clough then you have to stick with him another two seasons, and I don't think (in fact I know) people won't be that patient with him.

A new manager with the right credentials will IMO be more likly to be given the time that's needed by the majority, I know there are some who will want it all at once whatever but I think people have to face reality, however hard it is, and accept SUFC as a third division club for the near future.

It's just my opinion of why I beleive we need to make a change now, because if we don't it's just delaying what will be invetable come the Autumn , and it will save us a lot of pain at the start of the new season.

 

[HoodedClaw]

Personally think we're fucked if he stays or goes.

Didn't really have faith in him to be the man to take us forward when he was hired, still dont.

But I feel that he has embedded himself that deeply in the club with his Brother, Brannigan and all his ex-players that I fear for how much damage would/could be caused by us getting rid.

 

[Torrix1889]

With a couple of additions (and some obvious deletions) the existing squad is more than capable of competing next year. The problem is playing those players out of position, failing to motivate effectively, negative tactics......etc, etc.....and that is down to....????

 

[Revolution]

Is that he is going to be under almost intolerable pressure from game one, I think just talking to people and looking at social media he has lost the faith of the majority (perhaps not yet the vast majoity) of the fan base.

A large number of people have said "keep Clough, but we must be in top two contention from the off next season or he should go before xmas" and here is is the problem... whoever the manager is next season I am of the opinion we will not be in contention for the top two next season.

We are a goalkeeper, virtually a full defensive unit, two midfielders and a centre forward away from having a top two side. We aren't going to rectify those issues in one transfer window, may be two but more likely three.

So if your criteria is only stick with Clough if we are in contention from the off next season then you may as well get rid now, because we will be getting rid come the late Autumn. If we stick with Clough then you have to stick with him another two seasons, and I don't think (in fact I know) people won't be that patient with him.

A new manager with the right credentials will IMO be more likly to be given the time that's needed by the majority, I know there are some who will want it all at once whatever but I think people have to face reality, however hard it is, and accept SUFC as a third division club for the near future.

It's just my opinion of why I beleive we need to make a change now, because if we don't it's just delaying what will be invetable come the Autumn , and it will save us a lot of pain at the start of the new season.

This is a good point, but I disagree that this can't be sorted out in the close season. It can. Bristol City did it.

As it stands, on paper we will have had the second best finish of any team in the division last year who hasn't gone up. 3 teams are coming down - one is 90% likely to be a basket case, the other 2 may be good. Hard to tell. We have more resources than any of the other 23 teams save Wigan. We are in a decent position - if we make the right decisions.

 

[B.Lade]

If we get rid of clough the new manager will face the same expectations... The only reason to replace Clough is if a better alternative is available.

 

[KingSlayers]

I think we expect promotion way more than we should. Just like zablade said: we are a division 3 team for the foreseeable future and imo pressure only seems to make promotiom feel more unrealistic. With that said, the right signings, tactics and decisions and we could definitely be in with a shot.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

If we get rid of clough the new manager will face the same expectations... The only reason to replace Clough is if a better alternative is available.

And the lunatics would be picking him, stick with what you know.

 

[zablade]

This is a good point, but I disagree that this can't be sorted out in the close season. It can. Bristol City did it.

As it stands, on paper we will have had the second best finish of any team in the division last year who hasn't gone up. 3 teams are coming down - one is 90% likely to be a basket case, the other 2 may be good. Hard to tell. We have more resources than any of the other 23 teams save Wigan. We are in a decent position - if we make the right decisions.

I disagree about the quality of the squad it is average throughout, a large number of players capable of scraping for a play off spot, not good enough for top two, you only need to look at the opinion of their fellow pros, no one made the League one team of the year.

 

[wizadry]

if we make the right decisions.

Good post rev but can we really trust Clough to make the right decisions? My answer is a resounding no after some of the most baffling decisions I've witnessed from one of our managers.

 

[Revolution]

I disagree about the quality of the squad it is average throughout, a large number of players capable of scraping for a play off spot, not good enough for top two, you only need to look at the opinion of their fellow pros, no one made the League one team of the year.

I think there are a lot of average players, but I think we have to acknowledge the fact that we did finish 5th. that is above average.

 

[Guesty]

I think the squad is four, possibly five starters away from contending for automatic promotion ('Keeper, two Centre Backs, big midfielder, maybe a new Centre Forward), I agree that may be too much to fix in one transfer window.

Equally, we need to get rid of a load and re-balance this stupidly lop-sided squad. On top of all that, there's the problem of actually keeping hold of the players we do want to keep. It's all very well planning to sign two defenders all Summer, what happens if we have to find a replacement for Murphy during the first week of August?

I don't think Clough has done a particularly good job but our chopping and changing historically has been disastrous. Give him a chance to fix this mess, I reckon.

 

[YES Blade]

I think the squad is four, possibly five starters away from contending for automatic promotion ('Keeper, two Centre Backs, big midfielder, maybe a new Centre Forward), I agree that may be too much to fix in one transfer window.

Equally, we need to get rid of a load and re-balance this stupidly lop-sided squad. On top of all that, there's the problem of actually keeping hold of the players we do want to keep. It's all very well planning to sign two defenders all Summer, what happens if we have to find a replacement for Murphy during the first week of August?

I don't think Clough has done a particularly good job but our chopping and changing historically has been disastrous. Give him a chance to fix this mess, I reckon.

We faced that scenario last summer and it will be the same every summer until we get promoted, so a rebuild will always be required. How does keeping the same manager make that task dramatically easier?

I have the simplistic view of Non Promotion = Failure = Sack.

 

[Harry's Game]

Give him a chance to fix this mess, I reckon.

I wouldn't trust Clough to fix a drinking straw if it was bent.

The OP is way too pessimistic I believe we can achieve Auto next season, if we get rid of the favourites, bring in three correct additions and adopt a more positive attacking philosophy.

But none of this can be done under the current manager as he does not accept that these are the problems.

 

[Grecian2000]

I have the simplistic view of Non Promotion = Failure = Sack.

Not so much simplistic as mental.

You'd have sacked John Harris in 1970
You'd have sacked Porterfield in 1983
You'd have sacked Warnock six times over

In fact the only manager you'd retain would be Bassett who never failed to get us promoted whilst in charge.

 

[YES Blade]

Not so much simplistic as mental.

You'd have sacked John Harris in 1970
You'd have sacked Porterfield in 1983
You'd have sacked Warnock six times over

In fact the only manager you'd retain would be Bassett who never failed to get us promoted whilst in charge.

Sorry should have said that view only applies to when we are in League One with the largest budget.

 

[grafikhaus]

We are a goalkeeper, virtually a full defensive unit, two midfielders and a centre forward away from having a top two side. We aren't going to rectify those issues in one transfer window, may be two but more likely three.

Clough joined in October 2013 - we're heading for nearly 2 years of him in charge and you (rightly) state that the best part of a new team is needed. If he's still here, I suspect we'll be having this conversation in May 2017.

 

[Caseh]

Considering this is almost all Cloughs squad, I blame the deficiencies on Clough. You always hear top managers talking about the spine of the team. We don't have one. No centre halves, no certain CM partnerships, no striking partnerships. That isn't due to bad luck, that's due to buying the wrong players and/or being too stubborn.

 

[super_pig]

yes he'll be under pressure.. he'll have to deal with it. .he has put himself in this position

 

[alcoblade]

I think there are a lot of average players, but I think we have to acknowledge the fact that we did finish 5th. that is above average.

It's a false stat for me. We were, points wise, as near to relegation as promotion.

UTB

 

[bladeinspaceandtime]

I think we expect promotion way more than we should. Just like zablade said: we are a division 3 team for the foreseeable future and imo pressure only seems to make promotiom feel more unrealistic. With that said, the right signings, tactics and decisions and we could definitely be in with a shot.

It was the great sage Big Jim who said the board's aim was automatic promotion. What are the fans supposed to take from that?

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

It's a false stat for me. We were, points wise, as near to relegation as promotion.

UTB

That's clutching at straws Alco

 

[alcoblade]

That's clutching at straws Alco

It's a simple statement of cold hard fact, and an objective measure of how far away we currently are.

Why is it clutching at straws?

UTB

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

It's a simple statement of cold hard fact. Why is it clutching at straws?

UTB

I've no problem with anyone who thinks Clough has failed, in fact Clough is difficult to defend at times but saying we could be considered relegation fodder is a bit too much.

 

[alcoblade]

I've no problem with anyone who thinks Clough has failed, in fact Clough is difficult to defend at times but saying we could be considered relegation fodder is a bit too much.

Thta's your reading of what was said, not what was siad.

I said, points wise, that we finished as near to relegation as automatic promotion.

For all the subjective guff (pro and con) that's discussed in these threads, that's as far from clutching at staws as it gets. It's just fact.

UTB