The big IF

[Charlieblade]

Would the Cat1 Academy make that much of a difference. We are attracting young talent because they can see the potential to actually play first team football. We also attract because we are successful and have talented youngsters.
Arblaster, Peck, Brooks, Seriki have all come through despite us not being Cat1

As I said, they are there by default, not by choice. One-off two might make EPL first team regulars, but the rest are there to make up the numbers. Youthful promise will always need senior pros to guide them and lead by example.
The practice of loaning players to lesser clubs has developed for good reasons. It works a bit like any apprenticeship, and promising young players always go through it. It might not suit everyone, and some will do well with it.
This season has been generational for many of our young players, and they all develop at different levels and different ages. A frustrating nightmare for any manager, pushing so many youngsters forward. It could easily break them or make them. I can’t remember so many coming through at the same time. Its not done by choice, but by necessity.

 

[Bladeulike]

Humour me.

100% guarantee the “let’s keep our powder dry” and “one game at a time” comments and that’s fair. But life would be pretty boring if we didn’t look ahead.

If you can’t look ahead, close the thread.

IF we go up, would you want Wilder in or out?

That sounds like a ridiculous question given his masterclass so far this season and his ability to galvanise new players and the youth to quickly become firm fan favourites, however, bar our first season back, he didn’t show he was up to too much in the Prem so would you trust him to lead us to Prem consolidation instead of the yo-yo club we seem to have become or would you opt for a new manager with a new budget, set of ideas etc.

I think we need to get out of this binary death spiral of ‘in’ or ‘out’ and completely redefine what constitutes success for a club like ours. In spite of last year being the worst season I ever experienced, with us all watching the games from behind the sofa, just look where we are now. Not just in relation to league position but in also in terms of morale, player quality, self belief, rapport with the fans and optimism for the future. I am bloody loving it and enjoying my football again. We used our status as a recently relegated EPL club and, of course, the parachute payments to put together one of the most talented squads we have ever had. That’s all down to Chris Wilder and the management team. Let’s accept that we may yo-yo for a few years but learn from our successes and not focus on perceived failures. We are in the process of showing how it can be done. Relegation from the prem doesn’t need to be a manager sacking catastrophe. Being a top Championship side is a platform, not a trapdoor and CW and his team have used that concept brilliantly.

So for me if it’s a case of rinse and repeat in the event we do go up and come back down again, that’s fine. Don’t spunk all our money on galactico managers and players, just establish ourselves as a team that offers hungry new talent a realistic chance of Prem football or at the very least top level Championship experience and wages. Keep building, keep improving, keep calm and, above all, keep Chris Wilder who is a perfect manager for this kind of approach.

 

[BladeByChoice]

Let's have a bit of context here....

People were talking of Maguire for the Chelsea job and as a future Man Utd manager and look how Ipswich are doing!

The transition from Championship to PL survival needs significant investment in the infrastructure of the club not just players. The key to the success of Brentford, Brighton etc is due to the millions they've spent on scouting, data analysis, having a holistic sporting programme.

If we get promoted and expect to chuck £100m at Wilders little black book again, then we'll be back down in no time. Whereas if we invest in a proper structure to support this transition and growth, then we stand a much better chance.

Most sensible post in the history of the world.

The most annoying aspect of our club is we seem to want to be a village fate operating on a world stage, perpetual underdogs, we love it.

Well it won’t work, if you want to be a big boy, look at what the little boys who are now big boys did to become big boys and do that.

 

[Need4speed]

I’d definitely keep him on. He’s been fantastic…again.

But we need to improve the recruitment process at that level.
We spent huge sums (for us) on players that didn’t work out at that level last time we went up under him.

Whether that’s the DOF route or another approach, I don’t know. But we can’t just give him a large bag of cash to squander. And we must make progress on targets more effectively and in a much more timely manner.
Lost count of the number of times we previously missed out on key targets to rivals.

I would like much more clarity in terms of the clubs goals, short, medium and long term This to me would be the most important thing I would want from the new owners. I would then want to see a recruitment process that ties to those goals and then signings which fit with that. It requires a level of leadership which is above the role of manager. The manager then has to buy in and work on that strategy. i can buy into almost any short term strategy so long as the medium and long term goals are clear. That is about communication with the fans. What ever you feel about Wilder he won't be there for ever. It fell apart for him last time because either there was no strategy from the club or he didn't know what it was or didn't agree with it.

 

[SheepdipBlade]

Nah - Wilder out - Let's get Warnock back!

 

[CopenhagenBlade]

As I said, they are there by default, not by choice. One-off two might make EPL first team regulars, but the rest are there to make up the numbers. Youthful promise will always need senior pros to guide them and lead by example.
The practice of loaning players to lesser clubs has developed for good reasons. It works a bit like any apprenticeship, and promising young players always go through it. It might not suit everyone, and some will do well with it.
This season has been generational for many of our young players, and they all develop at different levels and different ages. A frustrating nightmare for any manager, pushing so many youngsters forward. It could easily break them or make them. I can’t remember so many coming through at the same time. Its not done by choice, but by necessity.

I would say Arblaster is there by choice, Seriki too as he could easily just use Gilchrist or Schakleton, who is more experienced, but he chooses Seriki. Peck would also have gotten playing time this season, but not as much. For thir development and Burrows too, it has been far more beneficial to be in The Championship. Marsh and One need a loan but are being kept due to lack of numbers

 

[Ron_Justice]

Keep him. Seems like he's much more willing to be part of a bigger structure this time around and less micromanaging everything. Suspect he's learned that from his time away from The Lane. We need a Director of Football to oversee Wilder and the Recruitment. Wilder should 100% be involved in recruitment discussion but there needs to be an overhaul of our recruitment / Scouting system to help us sustain a PL presence. In order to survive we need depth of quality and that means, especially as we're going to be doing it on a relatively small budget, we need to cast the net much wider and not rely on the best of the league below as was the case last time under CW.

That first season back, we performed remarkably well, but as has been discussed ad-nauseum, it was the novel system that carried us a long way. That wont be / isn't the case this time. We need lots of round pegs in round holes to be able to weather the rigors of the PL and we need to be able get them from untapped areas, so they'll be cheap enough for us to get enough of them quickly enough - I've said a few times I think we need another season in the Champ to ensure we have enough quality in depth, from a players point of view so we don't break the financial side of the club in the process. If, as is looking increasing likely, we manage it on the first attempt we need a different way of supporting CWAK's recruitment. Better scouting, wider reach and a DOF that is knowledgeable, experienced and adds genuine value to what the current management team is capable of.

 

[1987]

I think we forget the margins of that second season in the prem under Wilder, we were on the wrong side of many close games. It wasn't really the same kind of fucking that we got last year. I'm on the side of needing the fans, we were all part of the team those years and was cultivated to be that by Wilder, and so it was a big loss.

Season before he finished 9th, which seems pretty good to me.

I think he'll have learned his lessons in the transfer market. He was learning on the job really with those heady fees, and probably needed a word/ sense check in his ear a few times, which didn't seem to have happened. The signings certainly weren't all bad though, but it wasn't enough for the player regressions in the team.

It's not even a question I'd thought of, not sure why it needed to be asked, and of course he manages us in the Prem if he takes us up. I'm yet to see these managers who would take over and do a better job.

 

[Loco Blade]

If we go up let’s go down the Lampard - Rooney - Famous ex player manager route ! Can’t fail right

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Would the Cat1 Academy make that much of a difference. We are attracting young talent because they can see the potential to actually play first team football. We also attract because we are successful and have talented youngsters.
Arblaster, Peck, Brooks, Seriki have all come through despite us not being Cat1

Don't forget Osula who's transfer fee this Summer is getting scandalously over-looked for it's importance.

You could make a strong case that him, Bogle and Trusty have been the foundation this 'revolution' has been built on!

Get the statues built!

 

[ben1987]

I think we forget the margins of that second season in the prem under Wilder, we were on the wrong side of many close games. It wasn't really the same kind of fucking that we got last year. I'm on the side of needing the fans, we were all part of the team those years and was cultivated to be that by Wilder, and so it was a big loss.

Season before he finished 9th, which seems pretty good to me.

I think he'll have learned his lessons in the transfer market. He was learning on the job really with those heady fees, and probably needed a word/ sense check in his ear a few times, which didn't seem to have happened. The signings certainly weren't all bad though, but it wasn't enough for the player regressions in the team.

It's not even a question I'd thought of, not sure why it needed to be asked, and of course he manages us in the Prem if he takes us up. I'm yet to see these managers who would take over and do a better job.

For the first 10/15 games we found ourselves losing after being the better team for large parts of games. Losing by a single goal. Sucker punches etc

Then by the time you hit 20 games and you’ve not won, confidence is shot and losing is an engrained habit.

 

[Jimmy Fleck]

He needs a healthy budget

 

[biggiesablade]

Don't forget Osula who's transfer fee this Summer is getting scandalously over-looked for it's importance.

You could make a strong case that him, Bogle and Trusty have been the foundation this 'revolution' has been built on!

Get the statues built!

Monty's Blades

 

[CopenhagenBlade]

For the first 10/15 games we found ourselves losing after being the better team for large parts of games. Losing by a single goal. Sucker punches etc

Then by the time you hit 20 games and you’ve not won, confidence is shot and losing is an engrained habit.

We weren’t fit enough either. Really struggled after 70 minutes of chasing the ball

 

[JJBlade]

If we go up he should stay, as long as the board don't give him any money to spend

 

[Torrix1889]

I'm far from Wilders biggest fan and, (call it childish) haven't sung his name since his return and won't do. He has done a great job though so far so credit where it is due.

There are a lot of variables to come into play between now and the end of the season of course.

If he takes us up then it is the decision of the new owners, (hopefully) so I suppose it depends whether they want to gamble that Wilder can manage high-profile players, (presuming they get the cheque book out) or that his speciality is getting a team of youngsters and loans promoted but that's it.

 

[metalblade]

Would it be a wiser Chris Wilder or the old Wilder who could not waver from 3-5-2 and played Lundstram even though everyone could see he couldn't be arsed and wanted away. A Premier League outfit is far too much work for one man these days as we saw the season after Covid Wilder had burnt himself out and really should have taken gardening leave at least. If he can work alongside others and not have a finger in every pie as regards running the show then yeah let him have another crack at it. What was sadly missing in the boardroom when Covid hit was a person who knew about football, the Prince had gone to a job in Saudi leaving the club to virtually run itself.

 

[ZLB]

Humour me.

100% guarantee the “let’s keep our powder dry” and “one game at a time” comments and that’s fair. But life would be pretty boring if we didn’t look ahead.

If you can’t look ahead, close the thread.

IF we go up, would you want Wilder in or out?

That sounds like a ridiculous question given his masterclass so far this season and his ability to galvanise new players and the youth to quickly become firm fan favourites, however, bar our first season back, he didn’t show he was up to too much in the Prem so would you trust him to lead us to Prem consolidation instead of the yo-yo club we seem to have become or would you opt for a new manager with a new budget, set of ideas etc.

Ridiculous question

 

[Loco Blade]

Or we could go down the Swiss Cheese , Sausage Roll or Curry Wurst choice of manager

 

[Davalon]

The scorch marks on Eccy Road are Bladezz spontaneously combusting after reading the OP

 

[s20Blade]

Keep wilder but unless we are prepared to spend 150m+ (the whole attack from O'hare onwards would need a huge upgrade) we will becoming straight back down, so we'd have to endure the same as last time without being tempted to sack him before we need him again to come back up!

 

[Aston max]

Let's have a bit of context here....

People were talking of Maguire for the Chelsea job and as a future Man Utd manager and look how Ipswich are doing!

The transition from Championship to PL survival needs significant investment in the infrastructure of the club not just players. The key to the success of Brentford, Brighton etc is due to the millions they've spent on scouting, data analysis, having a holistic sporting programme.

If we get promoted and expect to chuck £100m at Wilders little black book again, then we'll be back down in no time. Whereas if we invest in a proper structure to support this transition and growth, then we stand a much better chance.

Completely agree we're starting to show beginnings of having systems in place
The HSBC site
A academy that's producing

We need a complex scouting system for more first team players ( hopefully des Taylor has improved this)

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Completely agree we're starting to show beginnings of having systems in place
The HSBC site
A academy that's producing

We need a complex scouting system for more first team players ( hopefully des Taylor has improved this)

Lets hope so. The two biggest reasons we stunk the PL last time was we had a strength & conditioning regime that would be embarrassing for a girl guides group and our 'scouting' led to such key signings as Slimane, Troare and Luke Thomas...

Looking at our players this season, we look in much better physical shape, but time will tell how our scouting/talent ID programme is going to work.

 

[robbiez666]

Humour me.

100% guarantee the “let’s keep our powder dry” and “one game at a time” comments and that’s fair. But life would be pretty boring if we didn’t look ahead.

If you can’t look ahead, close the thread.

IF we go up, would you want Wilder in or out?

That sounds like a ridiculous question given his masterclass so far this season and his ability to galvanise new players and the youth to quickly become firm fan favourites, however, bar our first season back, he didn’t show he was up to too much in the Prem so would you trust him to lead us to Prem consolidation instead of the yo-yo club we seem to have become or would you opt for a new manager with a new budget, set of ideas etc.

There's no point replacing Wilder unless we have a lot of money to spend. If we have a lot of money to spend, I don't trust him to spend it wisely.

 

[Uganda Blade]

Without doing any detailed research (ie I can't be arsed), my sense is that last summer's recruitment was a level above that of several years previous. Good players in the positions we needed who would fit into the planned formation and possessed the attributes we were looking for.
Is it a coincidence that that followed the appointment of Jamie Hoyland and the (rumoured) involvement of Des Taylor?
If we assume that those two were instrumental in most of our signings, and will be again next summer for a PL season, presumably we can expect far better recruitment and hence a better chance of staying up?

 

[Aston max]

Lets hope so. The two biggest reasons we stunk the PL last time was we had a strength & conditioning regime that would be embarrassing for a girl guides group and our 'scouting' led to such key signings as Slimane, Troare and Luke Thomas...

Looking at our players this season, we look in much better physical shape, but time will tell how our scouting/talent ID programme is going to work.

Makes you think sometimes how would today's conditioning have worked on TC,woody etc

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Makes you think sometimes how would today's conditioning have worked on TC,woody etc

They'd either adapt and embrace it, or have similar careers to the likes of Grealish, Wilshire, Ravel Morrison. Players with obvious unbelievable footballing talent but the inability to behave like professional athletes....

 

[Aston max]

There's no point replacing Wilder unless we have a lot of money to spend. If we have a lot of money to spend, I don't trust him to spend it wisely.

Agreed Chris will always be a legend for me, but at the end of the day it could be recruitment would be taken out of his hands
If we need a centre half the scouting team would find and recommend options
No more knee jerk reaction signings (sorry to pick out Rhian the lads had injury issues but seemed a "quiet down the fans" signing)

 

[Alex Cheeseright]

Lets hope so. The two biggest reasons we stunk the PL last time was we had a strength & conditioning regime that would be embarrassing for a girl guides group and our 'scouting' led to such key signings as Slimane, Troare and Luke Thomas...

Looking at our players this season, we look in much better physical shape, but time will tell how our scouting/talent ID programme is going to work.

Agree. Survival in the Prem starts with good recruiting. Last time, well we all know how well that went. But the new recruitment team seems a lot smarter with some good players coming in that can probably step up the next level...i.e Cooper, Burrows, O'Hare. We pick up 3 or more signings that can step, we would have a great chance of survival. Let's be honest the first season back is about survival, getting that 18th position. Look at how well Villa and Forest have done after the first season back. Yes, we need mega bucks owners......hopefully that will come too.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Agree. Survival in the Prem starts with good recruiting. Last time, well we all know how well that went. But the new recruitment team seems a lot smarter with some good players coming in that can probably step up the next level...i.e Cooper, Burrows, O'Hare. We pick up 3 or more signings that can step, we would have a great chance of survival. Let's be honest the first season back is about survival, getting that 18th position. Look at how well Villa and Forest have done after the first season back. Yes, we need mega bucks owners......hopefully that will come too.

Like i say above, if we think chucking money at Wilders Black Book/Championship players is going to work, then we're in trouble....

We need to buy players AND invest in putting in place a system that drives sustainable growth. Free transfers from Coventry and Plymouth GK aren't long term solutions to PL success....