Super Billy v Piggy Rhodes

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SwissBlade

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I've had an ongoing discussion with a couple of piggy mates on Facebook about Rhodes. Obviously there is bias on both sides and its been good banter, but I have wound them up about Rhodes and him not being worth the apparent £10 Million fee that they will pay for him in the summer.

As a wind up i mentioned that bargain basement Billy Sharp dispatched his penalty last week unlike £10 Million Rhodes.

Both players have scored goals in the Championship and League one, neither has spent much time in the Premier League, but they've got decent Championship records

Seems to me that the Piggies have paid out of desperation, but its unlikely that they'll fight for top 2 this season, so its a £10Million gamble to keep them in the play offs and take them up that way

So, given a choice of Rhodes, seemingly in his prime, for £10 Million or Billy for the £2 Million fee (biggest fee paid for him i believe), who would you go for? And what would Billy in his prime be worth in the Championship?
 



I've had an ongoing discussion with a couple of piggy mates on Facebook about Rhodes. Obviously there is bias on both sides and its been good banter, but I have wound them up about Rhodes and him not being worth the apparent £10 Million fee that they will pay for him in the summer.

As a wind up i mentioned that bargain basement Billy Sharp dispatched his penalty last week unlike £10 Million Rhodes.

Both players have scored goals in the Championship and League one, neither has spent much time in the Premier League, but they've got decent Championship records

Seems to me that the Piggies have paid out of desperation, but its unlikely that they'll fight for top 2 this season, so its a £10Million gamble to keep them in the play offs and take them up that way

So, given a choice of Rhodes, seemingly in his prime, for £10 Million or Billy for the £2 Million fee (biggest fee paid for him i believe), who would you go for? And what would Billy in his prime be worth in the Championship?

Can I hazard a guess and say that every Blade will say Billy and every knuckle dragging retarded Owl will opt for the other cuunt ?
 
Can I hazard a guess and say that every Blade will say Billy and every knuckle dragging retarded Owl will opt for the other cuunt ?
I've had an ongoing discussion with a couple of piggy mates on Facebook about Rhodes. Obviously there is bias on both sides and its been good banter, but I have wound them up about Rhodes and him not being worth the apparent £10 Million fee that they will pay for him in the summer.

As a wind up i mentioned that bargain basement Billy Sharp dispatched his penalty last week unlike £10 Million Rhodes.

Both players have scored goals in the Championship and League one, neither has spent much time in the Premier League, but they've got decent Championship records

Seems to me that the Piggies have paid out of desperation, but its unlikely that they'll fight for top 2 this season, so its a £10Million gamble to keep them in the play offs and take them up that way

So, given a choice of Rhodes, seemingly in his prime, for £10 Million or Billy for the £2 Million fee (biggest fee paid for him i believe), who would you go for? And what would Billy in his prime be worth in the Championship?

Well you did well to avoid the fact that Billy's record at converting pens has been diabolical this season, but that apart, if we're talking a younger BS I'd guess his value would be in the millions given the craziness that surrounds the transfer market. I'm not one for using a fee as a point of reference. A player who costs very little can go on to play consistently well at a higher level, so the nature of this type of comparison seems a bit adrift. Of course I think Sharp could cut it, but then Rhodes has done well during his career.
 
To be fair Swiss, if you add up all the transfer fees we've paid for Billy, I don't reckon there'll be much difference in cost between the two of them!!

Ok, cummulative for Billy
Sufc to Scunt - 100k
Scunt to SUFC - 2m
SUFC to Donny - 1.15m
Donny to Saints - 1.8m (Billy rejected a move a year earlier for 3.25m)
Saints to Leeds - 600k
Leeds to SUFC - 500k (although undisclosed)
total - 6.15m
Rhodes
Ipswich to Huddersfield - 350k
Huddersfield to Blackburn - 8m
Blackburn to Boro - 9m
Boro to pigs - 10m
total 27.35m

The pigs say its the market rates, but those market rates are pushed up a) by sides with Parachute payments or b) desperate sides with money
 
Well you did well to avoid the fact that Billy's record at converting pens has been diabolical this season, but that apart, if we're talking a younger BS I'd guess his value would be in the millions given the craziness that surrounds the transfer market. I'm not one for using a fee as a point of reference. A player who costs very little can go on to play consistently well at a higher level, so the nature of this type of comparison seems a bit adrift. Of course I think Sharp could cut it, but then Rhodes has done well during his career.
yeah and i've also failed to mention that Billy has no pace at all either. They're different strikers for sure, but is there such a vast difference or chasm (to use a piggy term)?
 
Ok, cummulative for Billy
Sufc to Scunt - 100k
Scunt to SUFC - 2m
SUFC to Donny - 1.15m
Donny to Saints - 1.8m (Billy rejected a move a year earlier for 3.25m)
Saints to Leeds - 600k
Leeds to SUFC - 500k (although undisclosed)
total - 6.15m
Rhodes
Ipswich to Huddersfield - 350k
Huddersfield to Blackburn - 8m
Blackburn to Boro - 9m
Boro to pigs - 10m
total 27.35m

The pigs say its the market rates, but those market rates are pushed up a) by sides with Parachute payments or b) desperate sides with money

Thanks for your effort with this mate, but it was just a 'cost to SUFC' v 'cost to SPFC' thing to try and make a funny about the number of times we'd bought him back
 
Rhodes V Billy as players?

No question, Rhodes every time. He and Evans tore this division a new one last time they were down here. 2011/12 Evans or Rhodes in our current side and we'd be posting Charlton points totals rather than jogging towards the line.

£10m Rhodes V £2m Billy in our current situation?

Billy every time.

Rhodes AND Billy- game over for the rest of the championship in our current situation. But we are a long way from spending that sort of money in any situation.
 



Tin hat time, but Rhodes is probably a better player and I reckon most neutrals would say the same.

I would take Billy all day long tho, he dies for the shirt, a proper captain.

I wasn't really suggesting that Billy is a better player, i haven't seen enough of Rhodes close up, but it was more a comparison between two decent players and asking why Rhodes is so much more expensive, when really he's not THAT much better...

Agree on Billy though, his commitment and ability to get goals, certainly in this division, for 500k, is priceless...

Rhodes V Billy as players?

No question, Rhodes every time. He and Evans tore this division a new one last time they were down here. 2011/12 Evans or Rhodes in our current side and we'd be posting Charlton points totals rather than jogging towards the line.

£10m Rhodes V £2m Billy in our current situation?

Billy every time.

Rhodes AND Billy- game over for the rest of the championship in our current situation. But we are a long way from spending that sort of money in any situation.

League 1 - I don't know, why would you get a striker, like Rhodes or Evans, if you can get 25-30 goals from a 500k striker like Billy and then buy Hanson, Lavery, Clarke, Done...?

Championship - Rhodes over Billy, but is Rhodes with the 10m in the championship when Billy will get you 10-20 goals (like Forestipig and Winnapig)?

Top 10 goalscorers in the championship and the fees paid (from what i found quickly on the net)...

Wood, Leeds - 22 goals - 3m (15/16
Gayle, Newcastle - 21 - 10m (16/17)
Abraham, Bristol C - 19 - Season Loan
Murray, B&HA - 17 - 3m (Undisclosed 2017)
Hogan, Villa - 14 - 15m (2017)
Kodjia, Villa - 13 - 15m (2016/17)
Ince, Derby - 12 - 5Million (2015)
Jerome, Norwich - 12 - 1.5M (2014)
Winnapig, Pigs - 12 - 500k (2017)
Forestipig, Pigs - 11 - 3M (2015)

Out of that lot seems that Villa are bumping up the fees in desperation and the pigs are following
 
Funny to see this thread as I was making this comparison in my head the other day. Naturally I'm always going to be a little biased in Billy's favour so that has to be taken into account.

Both proven Championship goal scorers but having just looked at their Wiki records (if that is to be taken as accurate), Rhodes has roughly 14 more goals during seasons that each player played in the Championship and I can't see how many were league goals. In any event it doesn't really justify the big difference in valuation does it?

They're both capable of 20+ Championship goals but neither is proven beyond that level. £10m for Rhodes is a joke but then so was the similar fee Fulham paid for McCormack. There are other examples as well. I'm happy to see the pigs pay over the odds and make no difference to their team in the process. We paid a fraction of that to get Sharp back this time around and he is capable of the same Championship haul as Rhodes in one season.

I wil pose a more specific question. Best value for money? I thinks that's obvious.
 
Rhodes is a better player now. Much better player. I'm no sure he'd fir in to where we are at the moment mind. I'd stick with Billy.
 
Just for the record we've only 'bought' Billy twice as his first spell was as a youngster from the academy.
 
Didn't we get a discount when we bought him back the first time as we had a sell on clause as well?! Comedy business.
 
I've had an ongoing discussion with a couple of piggy mates on Facebook about Rhodes. Obviously there is bias on both sides and its been good banter, but I have wound them up about Rhodes and him not being worth the apparent £10 Million fee that they will pay for him in the summer.

As a wind up i mentioned that bargain basement Billy Sharp dispatched his penalty last week unlike £10 Million Rhodes.

Both players have scored goals in the Championship and League one, neither has spent much time in the Premier League, but they've got decent Championship records

Seems to me that the Piggies have paid out of desperation, but its unlikely that they'll fight for top 2 this season, so its a £10Million gamble to keep them in the play offs and take them up that way

So, given a choice of Rhodes, seemingly in his prime, for £10 Million or Billy for the £2 Million fee (biggest fee paid for him i believe), who would you go for? And what would Billy in his prime be worth in the Championship?

Well, first of all, I don't think Rhodes is "seemingly in his prime" as you put it. In fact, he's "seemingly not in his prime". His prime was the period between 2009 and 2016 when he scored a combined total of over 150 goals for Huddersfield and Blackburn. Since 2016 he's only scored 6 goals and been unable to command a first team place at Middlesboro. Which is why Wednesday got him "on the cheap" as it were, for a cool £10M :eek:

To be honest, I've not seen enough of Rhodes to know much about him as a player. I don't know how good he actually is or was. I know he scored a lot of goals a long time ago - but so did John Stead. In fact they both went the Huddersfield - Blackburn - Oblivion route. So, Rhodes could be another John Stead. Someone who had a purple patch early in their career and disappeared off the face of the earth after that. I really don't think I'd have shelled out £10M for him - but Wednesday can afford it apparently and in allowing Carvalhal to bring in Rhodes, Chansiri is giving him enough rope to hang himself if it doesn't work out.

I think I know enough about Billy Sharp though. We've probably seen more of him than any other striker that's been on our books for the last 50 years. Three spells at the club and the previous two have been write-offs, let's be clear about that. And don't blame "a manager" for that either, because the bloke played under several managers in his previous two spells here. In his third coming Billy has made a great contribution to the team in terms of goals. I don't think his general play is particularly good tbh. He does a few things occasionally, like holding off opponents and tussling for the ball, very well - but a lot of the time he isn't actually contributing much to the game. Some fans will say that's because he's not getting the service - maybe so, sometimes, but I don't think he is exactly tearing defenders a new one every week or popping up all over the place and causing defences to panic when he's got the ball. What he does have is a remarkable instinct for being in the right place at the right time and putting the ball in the net. And that's why he's the first name on the team sheet every week. Because we've not got anyone else who can do that consistently.

How to compare the two? I couldn't - honestly. If you took the names away and just compared the stats then I'm afraid it would be Rhodes that wins out - it's a no-brainer. 6.1", 27 years of age, scored about 170 goals so far in his career, included 11 for his country. Compared with Billy who has scored not quite as many goals but been at it for longer and is 31 years old.

Sorry if that's not what folks want to hear, but it's a fact.

I still wouldn't swop Billy for him though! Just because, Billy is Billy and that lad is going to fire us up into the Championship - and maybe even beyond?
 
Billy Sharp is the leagues top scorer.

We are privilaged to have him. A few of us know this. One day the rest of you might catch up.
We certainly are and I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that
 
Well, first of all, I don't think Rhodes is "seemingly in his prime" as you put it. In fact, he's "seemingly not in his prime".

This comment was based upon his age, 27 and the fact that he's now a developed player with experience rather than just a young unknown. Although i accept that nowadays, in England we seem to have top strikers burst onto the scene looking exciting, with pace and scoring goals, by the time they're 26-29 they're finished - Wallcott, Sturridge, Rooney to name a few.

However, the hugely inflated transfer fees for Rhodes show that teams think he is an "in his prime" striker

In his third coming Billy has made a great contribution to the team in terms of goals. I don't think his general play is particularly good tbh. He does a few things occasionally, like holding off opponents and tussling for the ball, very well - but a lot of the time he isn't actually contributing much to the game. Some fans will say that's because he's not getting the service - maybe so, sometimes, but I don't think he is exactly tearing defenders a new one every week or popping up all over the place and causing defences to panic when he's got the ball. What he does have is a remarkable instinct for being in the right place at the right time and putting the ball in the net. And that's why he's the first name on the team sheet every week. Because we've not got anyone else who can do that consistently.

Got to disagree with this. Billy is an excellent player, sometimes i don't think his finishing is what it should be but he does a lot of work up front, pulling defenders wide, creating space for other strikers/ midfielders/ wing backs. Last season, frustratingly he spent a lot of time out wide, hunting for the ball, because he didn't have the service. This season he's had much better service and his wide runs have been unselfish, too much at times, to create space for other players to get into the box.

During this spell with us he's often played the lone striker or target man with another faster player alongside him. He's realised during his career that he's not blessed with pace, so worked on his physicality and i think we have a better striker for it. Had he done this a few years ago, i'd hazard that he'd have scored a lot more goals for the teams he's played for and probably spent more time in the Premier League.

Tussling for the ball is not something he's really going to get a lot of joy from though, against better or experienced defenders. Noticably away at Chesterfield, he ended up out wide in the second half, but this was because up against Evert, he got nothing, so he went out wide and it changed the game, but it allowed for Clarke to thrive too - with power and pace through the middle.

I think the downsides to his game are his pace over anything more than a couple of yards, his long range striking and his finishing.

Long range striking - this is probably more to do with the fact that he's often been the target man, so played with his back to goal or he's been out wide 'hunting', but during this very successful season, he's not had that many goals from distance, just the one v Shrewsbury away (i think). Its not a major criticism, but more of an observation as most of his goals come from 12 yards, where he's excellent.

Finishing - I know that this is harsh, perhaps very harsh, but he misses a lot of chances. Ironically in games where he has few chances he takes them and you know you can rely on him to put his chances away... However, in games where we get a lot of chances in the box, he can often miss simple opportunities. Again, its very harsh.

Rhodes has a better goal scoring record, has generated massive transfer fees, but what you get with Billy seems to be far more for the team than with Rhodes.
 
As the season draws to a close, what value for Billy's team performance and what value for Rhode's crisis of confidence.

One thing i know is that even when Billy misses a penalty, he's right there again the next time to take one again.

Sometimes it comes down to the character of the man.
 
When you go to war,you want men like Billy Sharp in the trenches with you and he will be the first man over the top of the trench leading the others.................Rhodes on the other hand would be sat in the bottom of the trench trembling like a baby.
 
Anyone think that perhaps Rhodes has some affection for his old club and just didn't want to take a penalty against them?

The whole team bottled it, nobody wanted to take the pens.
 



Anyone think that perhaps Rhodes has some affection for his old club and just didn't want to take a penalty against them?

The whole team bottled it, nobody wanted to take the pens.
Didn't bother Billy when he scored against us for Donny. It's his job.
 

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