Sunday's Crowd - What's Going On ?

[BushBlade]

One pretty major error I've noticed whilst reading your post, which was otherwise pretty good, is the fact that you referred to the south Barnsley lot as " blue and white 3Rd of 'SHEFFIELD'!!" when we all know they're actually the blue and white quarter of Barnsley!!??
If you could possibly refrain from making these stupid childish mistakes in future posts, then that would be appreciated greatly!!!
Thanks x

I think Tyler has Irish heritage so I assumed he meant blue and white turds.

 

[Booker4]

To any Pigs who are sniping/exaggerating/outright lying about the extent of our concessionary schemes/pricing structure, I'll tell them a little story:

I'm just about old enough to recall United having a three-sided ground, and not even being able to fill that. A couple of years later (99/00 ) I had my first season ticket. The average attendance that season was 13,000.

The football was shite, the boardroom was a fucking circus and the blue and white 3rd of Sheffield had enjoyed a near decade of top-flight football and an undisputably bigger attending fanbase.....all of which was about to change.

Now, did we pursue a policy of accessible football in the first decade of 2000? Damn right we did. We made it easy for kids to watch us because it's a lifetime investment. We made it affordable for students because maybe, just maybe we did our research and noted that Sheffield has one of the highest retention rates for graduates in the country.
If the football was going to be crap then at least it was going to be cheap. It just so happens that all this coincided with United enjoying a decade of unbroken dominance over our shit neighbours.

By contrast, the filth from S6 raised prices year on year, exploiting their gullible and deluded fanbase and milking them for all they're worth whilst their football was fucking garbage. SWFC's budget apparently didn't cover cheap tickets but it did cover those 'Get Your Premiership Return Ticket' adverts pasted on buses and trams.......the year they got relegated to the third division. Yet another example of their arrogance biting them on the arse.

The funniest thing about all this is that those thick misguided cunts think that they can laugh at our ticketing policy (which has paid dividends), never realising that they've been hoodwinked, exploited and sold down the river by successive white elephant owners on the hollow promise that "this will be their year" ad infinitum.

Spot on as ever Tyler! I remember well the 90's and even though we started the decade well in the top flight it all deteriorated and we saw crowds plummet with dire football, thanks to the board not backing Bassett. Even when Kendall came the crowds took a while to return. I remember seeing us play a crucial game v Luton which I think we won 1 - 0 with a Don Hutchinson goal in front of about 10,000! The support we have now is the best we've ever had in my time supporting United. Not as high as the Premier League season under Warnock obviously but in terms of numbers for the circumstances we are in I'd guess we'll end up roughly with a 23,000 average. Wednesday averaged just over 21,000 in their promotion winning season which of course had a Sheffield derby in and Huddersfield where they got 28,000. That'll never be mentioned on Porktalk that's for sure.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Population increases. We are the favourite Sheffield team for refugees and asylum seekers. And McCabe's globalisation of our club brand is working! We have more Chinese supporters than Wednesday, more youngsters too. And as evidenced on this board we are very LGBT friendly!

 

[s4-blade]

A lot of praise for McCabe in this thread and rightly so. Yes he has his faults, he makes way too many fuck ups regarding appointments, he doesn't have a great deal of cashed invest and through stupid money at us and he probably never will, he constantly bleeds on about bad luck but he's worked wonders at the helm of this club. It's testament to the work he's done behind the scenes that we've actually grown as a club while in a state of decline and the investment into the little things that make up a football club is second to none, and we're now reaping the rewards. Ticket prices, incentives, the stadium and its facilities, the academy, and now he's made a couple of great decisions on the playing side of things as well. Thanks you Mr McCabe, you won't find a better chairman at a comparable club all across the country.

 

[WhiteHawk]

My guess is that youngsters got hooked during the Warnock years,triple assault,promotion to the Prem,Prem season and have hung around despite the decline years,because of the bond they feel to United and also the sensible pricing.

Just my theory

Pretty much this. Due to being brought up in a single parent family, I very rarely got to go to The Lane until I started working and could pay for myself. I started going regularly in 01-02 so the Triple Assault season was one of the first things I saw, and I've paid pretty much the same price for my season ticket every year (£269 in 03/04, £288 for 17/18).

 

[stringjunior]

To any Pigs who are sniping/exaggerating/outright lying about the extent of our concessionary schemes/pricing structure, I'll tell them a little story:

I'm just about old enough to recall United having a three-sided ground, and not even being able to fill that. A couple of years later (99/00 ) I had my first season ticket. The average attendance that season was 13,000.

The football was shite, the boardroom was a fucking circus and the blue and white 3rd of Sheffield had enjoyed a near decade of top-flight football and an undisputably bigger attending fanbase.....all of which was about to change.

Now, did we pursue a policy of accessible football in the first decade of 2000? Damn right we did. We made it easy for kids to watch us because it's a lifetime investment. We made it affordable for students because maybe, just maybe we did our research and noted that Sheffield has one of the highest retention rates for graduates in the country.
If the football was going to be crap then at least it was going to be cheap. It just so happens that all this coincided with United enjoying a decade of unbroken dominance over our shit neighbours.

By contrast, the filth from S6 raised prices year on year, exploiting their gullible and deluded fanbase and milking them for all they're worth whilst their football was fucking garbage. SWFC's budget apparently didn't cover cheap tickets but it did cover those 'Get Your Premiership Return Ticket' adverts pasted on buses and trams.......the year they got relegated to the third division. Yet another example of their arrogance biting them on the arse.

The funniest thing about all this is that those thick misguided cunts think that they can laugh at our ticketing policy (which has paid dividends), never realising that they've been hoodwinked, exploited and sold down the river by successive white elephant owners on the hollow promise that "this will be their year" ad infinitum.

Poetry

 

[WhiteHawk]

To any Pigs who are sniping/exaggerating/outright lying about the extent of our concessionary schemes/pricing structure, I'll tell them a little story:

I'm just about old enough to recall United having a three-sided ground, and not even being able to fill that. A couple of years later (99/00 ) I had my first season ticket. The average attendance that season was 13,000.

The football was shite, the boardroom was a fucking circus and the blue and white 3rd of Sheffield had enjoyed a near decade of top-flight football and an undisputably bigger attending fanbase.....all of which was about to change.

Now, did we pursue a policy of accessible football in the first decade of 2000? Damn right we did. We made it easy for kids to watch us because it's a lifetime investment. We made it affordable for students because maybe, just maybe we did our research and noted that Sheffield has one of the highest retention rates for graduates in the country.
If the football was going to be crap then at least it was going to be cheap. It just so happens that all this coincided with United enjoying a decade of unbroken dominance over our shit neighbours.

By contrast, the filth from S6 raised prices year on year, exploiting their gullible and deluded fanbase and milking them for all they're worth whilst their football was fucking garbage. SWFC's budget apparently didn't cover cheap tickets but it did cover those 'Get Your Premiership Return Ticket' adverts pasted on buses and trams.......the year they got relegated to the third division. Yet another example of their arrogance biting them on the arse.

The funniest thing about all this is that those thick misguided cunts think that they can laugh at our ticketing policy (which has paid dividends), never realising that they've been hoodwinked, exploited and sold down the river by successive white elephant owners on the hollow promise that "this will be their year" ad infinitum.

Brilliant post mate.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

I think the level of our support now means Kev should think again about putting office blocks in the corners of the ground.
We should knock down those architectural carbuncles that are the kop and kop corner and develop the ground properly. A proper stand with 2 proper corners, proper rake, proper views with proper facilities.

 

[S64 Blade]

I think the level of our support now means Kev should think again about putting office blocks in the corners of the ground.
We should knock down those architectural carbuncles that are the kop and kop corner and develop the ground properly. A proper stand with 2 proper corners, proper rake, proper views with proper facilities.

I agree. There's plenty of locations, even with Bramall Lane's permitter that offices can go. Keep the Kop/South stand corner free for seating, if required.

 

[s4-blade]

I think the level of our support now means Kev should think again about putting office blocks in the corners of the ground.
We should knock down those architectural carbuncles that are the kop and kop corner and develop the ground properly. A proper stand with 2 proper corners, proper rake, proper views with proper facilities.

Alternatively, just removing the pillars and replacing the seats with safe standing (and ideally an upgrade to the outdoor concourse facilities) and the problem is largely solved with little disruption, a much lower cost while creating a much better atmosphere and higher capacity. Any Kop regulars who prefer to sit can be relocated to the much better facilities in the BLUT.

 

[Deleted member 875]

Kevin McCabe has made mistakes over the years but one thing he has done is help build the support. We are now seeing the fruits of the £10 season ticket to under 10's who attended with a full ST holder some 6 or 7 years ago. This was extended to under 11's, 12's and 13's if I remember rightly and this built a whole new generation of young fans as these lads are now 15/16/17 and probably go with their mates. Despite a pretty torrid 6 years in the 3rd division, the support has held up and this season has given an indication of the potential, especially over the last few weeks. The general ticketing policy cannot be faulted either (IMHO) and has helped retain many who may have drifted away as United failed consistently to get out of this division.

I live in an area that is probably a decent indicator as to the support in Sheffield (always slightly more from the other side) and Little BB started a football training session on Saturday mornings some 8 years ago when he was 5. At the time, there was about an even split between SWFC and SUFC shirts among the youngsters with SWFC just edging it. Tomorrow, SUFC shirts will amount to about 60% to 70% of the kids attending and SWFC shirts will be about 20% (with 10% being "others"). There are even lads whose fathers are SWFC but peer pressure has turned their youngsters into Blades. It's been both interesting and highly encouraging to watch this progression over the last 8 years or so in this small microcosm of young Sheffield football fans.

Long may it continue and again, well done SUFC! There is nothing quite like a full and rocking BDTBL

And by a similar measure. When i was Brownie Jnrs age i went to the same junior school as him. When i was the same age as him there was me and one other United fan in the class, now there is 6 United fans in his class.

And secondly, been at cricket training tonight and talking to one of the lads there who is a ST holder at Hillsborough and his two lads are as well. They have spent nearly £800 on their season tickets for next season for the Kop, me and Brownie Jnr with excellent seats in the South Stand £432. Brownie Jnrs is only £45.

The pigs might chortle at the relative cheapness of our prices, but at the end of the day we aren't trying to screw every last penny out of our fans,

 

[Valleyblade]

Better pricing was definitely a factor in my return to the lane.

I was a regular as a child, and then moved away to study.

When I inevitably (as all good people do) returned to Sheffield's south side, as a partner of someone who was a PhD student, she was able to buy me student season ticket, for premier league football, with a student discount.



It was less than 200 quid I think.

I got the bug back

 

[coolhandluke]

I think the level of our support now means Kev should think again about putting office blocks in the corners of the ground.
We should knock down those architectural carbuncles that are the kop and kop corner and develop the ground properly. A proper stand with 2 proper corners, proper rake, proper views with proper facilities.

Agreed . And for some strange reason I can see this happening . The tie up with us and major Chinese businesses will be the key I reckon . McCabe as a businessman is a very shrewd cookie ...... links like the ones he has in China virtually always have investment involved .

 

[Sheffsteel]

I think the level of our support now means Kev should think again about putting office blocks in the corners of the ground.
We should knock down those architectural carbuncles that are the kop and kop corner and develop the ground properly. A proper stand with 2 proper corners, proper rake, proper views with proper facilities.

Hate the idea of turning Bramall Lane into a bowl type stadium,
Much prefer a seperate Kop.

Also there's a big problem with filling in the corners to join the Kop with the other stands.
It would reduce capacity when we should be trying to increase the capacity.
It would also be really expensive to build a totally new stand from scratch and take decades to get the investment back. So it's never going to happen.

Remember any stadium expansion has to have a viable business plan and can't be a vanity project.

 

[TheFlashingBlade]

Ironically and perversely I think one of the reasons is because we're so crap. We've been so spectacularly dire and have spectacularly underperformed year after year that when it finally comes good we all want a part of it. After all, we've "earned" it. Part of the joy of Sheffield United is the pain of Sheffield United. It's the shitty shit times that make the good times so good. A lot of us on here hold up Darlington as the greatest day in the history of the universe (me included), when actually it was the worst ever finishing position in the history of the club. Out of the darkness comes the light and all that.

 

[GreenhillBladeinToronto]

I am genuinely touched by the huge & interesting response. I will post later when not driving the van. I am often labelled a McCabe basher on here + sometimes I deserve the stick (hello Sean Thornton !). But I have to acknowledge the "unseen" investment he's made by way of an excellent long-term ticket pricing policy + improvement of ground facilities. He realised long ago that the Blades can only sell a good product at the right price , no matter the vicissitudes of how the team is doing in whichever Division. And he's got his reward in a full-house - people want to be in a full house , it's exciting in itself , so UTB !

Good postcard

I am genuinely touched by the huge & interesting response. I will post later when not driving the van. I am often labelled a McCabe basher on here + sometimes I deserve the stick (hello Sean Thornton !). But I have to acknowledge the "unseen" investment he's made by way of an excellent long-term ticket pricing policy + improvement of ground facilities. He realised long ago that the Blades can only sell a good product at the right price , no matter the vicissitudes of how the team is doing in whichever Division. And he's got his reward in a full-house - people want to be in a full house , it's exciting in itself , so UTB !

Good post, Shafter, and if the budget would have allowed for two trips over this month there would be an extra 1 on the attendance. Brilliant time at Vale and Bradford games - what a time to be a Blade. Hope we stuff Chezzie . Can't wait for next season and just heard that BLades Player (soon to become iFollow....) intends to screen some live games next year (but just for overseas subscribers...) so the days of dodgy, AlJazeeraesque web feeds may be over

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Hate the idea of turning Bramall Lane into a bowl type stadium,
Much prefer a seperate Kop.

Also there's a big problem with filling in the corners to join the Kop with the other stands.
It would reduce capacity when we should be trying to increase the capacity.
It would also be really expensive to build a totally new stand from scratch and take decades to get the investment back. So it's never going to happen.

Remember any stadium expansion has to have a viable business plan and can't be a vanity project.

I know what you're saying, but the kop is nothing more than a concrete covered spoil heap, the development possibilities are endless. It would be a shame to incorporate a hill into a modern football stadium.
A big daft kop on a slag heap with four stands that can't be joined together. Where does that remind you of........ Swilsborough ofcouse.
Why do we have to develop a mini pig sty, when have the land to do so much better with our ground.
I fear if ever England got the World cup again Sheffield may be overlooked as a host city because both grounds are too "traditional" and to similar and don't fit the modern stadium criteria.

 

[Sheffsteel]

I know what you're saying, but the kop is nothing more than a concrete covered spoil heap, the development possibilities are endless. It would be a shame to incorporate a hill into a modern football stadium.
A big daft kop on a slag heap with four stands that can't be joined together. Where does that remind you of........ Swilsborough ofcouse.
Why do we have to develop a mini pig sty, when have the land to do so much better with our ground.
I fear if ever England got the World cup again Sheffield may be overlooked as a host city because both grounds are too "traditional" and to similar and don't fit the modern stadium criteria.

All fair points.

However all 4 stands at Bramall Lane could be better.
Bramall Lane- cramped concourse area
South stand - lacks boxes
John Street - should have been built bigger
Kop - worse stand in the ground, terrible uncovered concourse areas and pillars blocking the view.

These days clubs don't really make any money from building normal stands.
The real money is from "corporate boxes and entertainment etc" and ensuring income streams 24/7 like building restaurants, student flats, office blocks etc.

Let's face it....McCabe is a successful professional property developer.
He will be aware more than anyone about how to develope Bramall Lane.
However as I've said it won't be any vanity project, any upgrade will need to have a strong business case and that's what may be holding it back.

A quick example is if we build a brand new Kop then we lose 11,000 seats for 2 seasons meaning millions of lost revenue where as if we bolt 3,200 on to the back like in the plans building work can happen for a while without even closing the Kop.

 

[Kenilworth]

I am genuinely touched by the huge & interesting response. I will post later when not driving the van. I am often labelled a McCabe basher on here + sometimes I deserve the stick (hello Sean Thornton !). But I have to acknowledge the "unseen" investment he's made by way of an excellent long-term ticket pricing policy + improvement of ground facilities. He realised long ago that the Blades can only sell a good product at the right price , no matter the vicissitudes of how the team is doing in whichever Division. And he's got his reward in a full-house - people want to be in a full house , it's exciting in itself , so UTB !

You got a like just for including the word "vicissitudes" in a post.

Top stuff

 

[Pinchy]

Maybe, just maybe, the brilliant football we're playing is attracting a few...











There will now be a stunned silence and bewildered expressions across S2...

 

[Pinchy]

And he's got his reward in a full-house - people want to be in a full house , it's exciting in itself , so UTB !

Good point, and another very good reason why attendances DO matter and are a worthy topic for discussion. Up the Massive Blades.

 

[Keen Blade]

Even if we could afford the loss of revenue that rebuilding the kop entails , we would be severely damaged by the loss of capacity at this moment of success , which would undo all the good work that's gone into building up our support. So despite a complete rebuild being preferable , we are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
However , IMO the additional revenue from the kop extension providing an enormously efficient ale-selling concourse , for 13,000 thirsty fans , would be significant. If they could get the atmosphere right and prevent the idiots climbing the girders for crowd-surfing , it would be a money-spinner.
In the longer term , i agree that corporate boxes etc on stage 2 of the South Stand are necessary , when we can afford to close it for a season for the rebuild , and by then of course we already have the 3,000 extra at the back of the kop.
At that stage , since John Street is never full , i would switch all the SS STHs over to JS and relocate the families from JS , maybe to WC & BLUT.

 

[Kenilworth]

Ironically and perversely I think one of the reasons is because we're so crap. We've been so spectacularly dire and have spectacularly underperformed year after year that when it finally comes good we all want a part of it. After all, we've "earned" it. Part of the joy of Sheffield United is the pain of Sheffield United. It's the shitty shit times that make the good times so good. A lot of us on here hold up Darlington as the greatest day in the history of the universe (me included), when actually it was the worst ever finishing position in the history of the club. Out of the darkness comes the light and all that.

Similar to the hypothesis in this article from the DT that mother Ken sent me last year.

Up The Identity Fusionists!

Still prefer "Blades"

 

[bladesmanluke]

Why do so many people hate Bramall Lane so much? I think it's one of the best grounds in the country

 

[Tyler Durden]

Why do so many people hate Bramall Lane so much? I think it's one of the best grounds in the country

Because they're cunts.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Even if we could afford the loss of revenue that rebuilding the kop entails , we would be severely damaged by the loss of capacity at this moment of success , which would undo all the good work that's gone into building up our support. So despite a complete rebuild being preferable , we are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
However , IMO the additional revenue from the kop extension providing an enormously efficient ale-selling concourse , for 13,000 thirsty fans , would be significant. If they could get the atmosphere right and prevent the idiots climbing the girders for crowd-surfing , it would be a money-spinner.
In the longer term , i agree that corporate boxes etc on stage 2 of the South Stand are necessary , when we can afford to close it for a season for the rebuild , and by then of course we already have the 3,000 extra at the back of the kop.
At that stage , since John Street is never full , i would switch all the SS STHs over to JS and relocate the families from JS , maybe to WC & BLUT.

Again all fair points but if we upgrade both the Kop and AND the South stand then capacity will be 44K.
There's no evidence that we need a 44K stadium. Also many years ago I read that Sheffield as a city doesn't have a big demand for corporate facilities/ boxes like other cities.

Where as the Kop expansion takes capacity to 36K and that figure is more realistic and should be sufficient.

I'm sure McCabe believes his best money maker is building student flats.
It's a shame we weren't a little closer to town or the Kop wasn't on the Bramall Lane side nearer the Chinatown developement otherwise McCabe could have incorporated shops, bars and restaurants into the design.

 

[S64 Blade]

Again all fair points but if we upgrade both the Kop and AND the South stand then capacity will be 44K.
There's no evidence that we need a 44K stadium. Also many years ago I read that Sheffield as a city doesn't have a big demand for corporate facilities/ boxes like other cities.

Not entirely true. As I understand it, United do very well out of corporate facilities, even now. Next season demand will of course grow. Couple this with the fact that mass amounts of Chinese money is being pumped into the city (an area which McCabe has a breadth of contacts) then this will further push demand. More widely, Sheffield doesn't do as well with corporate events and conferences as there isn't anyway to hold them. This is something being explored by the council with the Castlegate area being a likely location for any NEC like venue.

I've said in another thread before, that if we are to fully redevelop the Kop (i.e. knock it down and start again), then the South Stand is the best place to start. It'll add another few thousands on to the capacity, as well as better revenue streams. The Kop coming second would then have less impact on the capacity and financially.

 

[Johnstreetstand]

There are charecteristics of BDLT that make it the ground we love. But I used to love the cricket pitch and pavilion. Used to love the old John Street stand and the rabbit warren under it. The odd bits in the corners etc. All part of the match day experience. But I remember the BL stand opening, and subsequently the other sides of the ground being upgraded. Got used to it. The kop does need a makeover to improve the view and the facilities. The corners need consideration. Build it and they will come. It's not about the ground though it's about the team. Keep the fans entertained. But a better ground also bRings in other streams of revenue . It's a fantastic stadium as it is, no harm in being better.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Not entirely true. As I understand it, United do very well out of corporate facilities, even now. Next season demand will of course grow. Couple this with the fact that mass amounts of Chinese money is being pumped into the city (an area which McCabe has a breadth of contacts) then this will further push demand. More widely, Sheffield doesn't do as well with corporate events and conferences as there isn't anyway to hold them. This is something being explored by the council with the Castlegate area being a likely location for any NEC like venue.

I've said in another thread before, that if we are to fully redevelop the Kop (i.e. knock it down and start again), then the South Stand is the best place to start. It'll add another few thousands on to the capacity, as well as better revenue streams. The Kop coming second would then have less impact on the capacity and financially.

Maybe I'm just quoting the old fashioned view that big ambitious ideas fail in Sheffield because folk aren't prepared to pay higher prices for anything fancy, like they do in all the other major cities.

Football used to be a working class sport but it recent years it's now become very popular and trendy for the rich to support a club. It's those people and business entertainment that are the new targets to increase revenue.

Would love to hear McCabes personal views on stadium expansion (actually expanding the capacity is just a by product, his main motivation would be property development) and where he thinks Sheffield is heading regards commerce & enterprise and how he thinks the new Chinatown will affect the area around BL.

 

[Keen Blade]

Why do so many people hate Bramall Lane so much? I think it's one of the best grounds in the country

Almost every proper football attender i meet is envious of Bramall Lane if they've ever been.
You must meet a strange lot of ignorant people (or just arrivist Blades who don't appreciate history).
For all its irritations (and some could easily be corrected , like having more staff In the kop bars) , we have the best traditional ground with the longest history IN THE WORLD.
And who needs more than , say , 30,000 diehard fans ?
More than that and you're no longer a Club of which you're proud to be a member.
You become a corporate brand , which i would never want.