Substitutions Cost Us

[Bergen Blade]

McTominay was his man to mark. The biggest issue is whoever should have been marking Fernandes but wasn't. Using the benefit of hindsight we can agree that Norwood should've stepped inside and marked Fernandes instead but not doing so in that situation, given the speed in which the play developed, doesn't necessarily make the goal Norwood's fault. Players are drilled to communicate between the lines, did Norwood get a shout (other than the late one from Trusty)? I suppose we'll never know.

We don't use a strict man marking system, which means McTominay isn't "his man to mark" for as long as Norwood likes.

This has been Souza's biggest problem. I think it could be the case that Souza has been used to strict man marking systems and therefore find it difficult to let his man go if he wanders off to a no-danger zone. But to have Norwood making the same mistake is really disappointing. The issue here is not hindsight - it is a lack of foresight. And legs.

 

[LJBlade]

We don't use a strict man marking system, which means McTominay isn't "his man to mark" for as long as Norwood likes.

This has been Souza's biggest problem. I think it could be the case that Souza has been used to strict man marking systems and therefore find it difficult to let his man go if he wanders off to a no-danger zone. But to have Norwood making the same mistake is really disappointing. The issue here is not hindsight - it is a lack of foresight. And legs.

In that situation, as it developed, McTominay was Norwood's man. It's why Norwood followed him out wide. I imagine he wouldn't have done had he got an early shout, though I suppose it's possible he did get a shout but just ignored it.

And speaking of Souza, have a look where he is on that first image. He should have been marking Fernandes.

Souza was given a strict man marking role against Berge when we played Burnley, which he utterly failed at.

 

[Nah-then]

Old ollie has the heat map of a subbuteo player that's broken.

 

[blade too long]

Without any of his fitness stats how can you possibly say if he needed to come off or not?
What we do know is we 100% cannot afford to not have Bogle fit for the last few games as we have no alternate option at RB to cover.

but its utterly barmy keeping things tight for 75 minutes then letting go of the reins for 15 minutes
and are we keeping Bogle fit for another 75 minute spell then blowing it again

 

[blade too long]

I don't agree with that. Moments before Norwood has a look inside and spots Fernandes.
He has to prioritise and decide which is the biggest threat. There's not always time for the pointing and shouting at this level - players have to be drilled, but also have the individual awareness, focus and instinct to combat the ever-changing threats of the opposition.

aw come on ,,, we pay peanuts for footballer s we cant afford those that can think and make decisions

 

[Tezza1889]

I thought we'd done this ages ago..

Well here goes, it'll be my last try though because after this thread I won't be talking subs again....

So wilder made shit subs?

Let's go right back and look at the rule changes, where you can now have 5 substitutions..

What did the top teams do, well they just bought a better 2nd string of players, now, let's say Liverpool have an opportunity to have maybe 10 world cup quality players in the 2nd string, of which 5 can be brought on, all experts in thier position, some versatile and all proven at elite football level..

So the bench is full of quality players (see where we are going) and when klopp makes a substitution it would be based on which starter is most likely to not last the whole 100 minutes of football..

The first example of this rule change hitting us was away at spurs.. you don't need me to tell you what impact thier subs had..

Now couple that with the new time wasting rule where you have 3-4 fresh footballers coming on with about half an hour to get into the game and make a positive impact, in the old days the greatest of players sometimes just ran out of time before they could get into it and affect a game, not anymore...

Now look at who our subs were last night.. so how does he get it right?

Doesn't matter what wilder does, the issue is the lack of a billionaire owner, this isn't the league for millionaire owners anymore...strength in depth is the key factor, we have none..

Please don't ask me where there is one, I can't answer you, but we won't compete at this level without one..sorry..

 

[Jan Age]

I thought we'd done this ages ago..

Well here goes, it'll be my last try though because after this thread I won't be talking subs again....

So wilder made shit subs?

Let's go right back and look at the rule changes, where you can now have 5 substitutions..

What did the top teams do, well they just bought a better 2nd string of players, now, let's say Liverpool have an opportunity to have maybe 10 world cup quality players in the 2nd string, of which 5 can be brought on, all experts in thier position, some versatile and all proven at elite football level..

So the bench is full of quality players (see where we are going) and when klopp makes a substitution it would be based on which starter is most likely to not last the whole 100 minutes of football..

The first example of this rule change hitting us was away at spurs.. you don't need me to tell you what impact thier subs had..

Now couple that with the new time wasting rule where you have 3-4 fresh footballers coming on with about half an hour to get into the game and make a positive impact, in the old days the greatest of players sometimes just ran out of time before they could get into it and affect a game, not anymore...

Now look at who our subs were last night.. so how does he get it right?

Doesn't matter what wilder does, the issue is the lack of a billionaire owner, this isn't the league for millionaire owners anymore...strength in depth is the key factor, we have none..

Please don't ask me where there is one, I can't answer you, but we won't compete at this level without one..sorry..

100% nailed on the game is now rigged

 

[finlaytheblade]

Lost all structure and composure going to a back 4 and norwood kept giving it away as usual. No wonder we concede 2 almost instantly. Not all down to him as the whole midfield was starting to tire and get a bit sloppier but it seemed to push us over the edge. Fair enough we have to make subs to protect players, but anyone but norwood. Every time he comes on it taints his time at the club a bit more.

I don't like to be critical of norwood because he's been a great player for us for a long time and is a big part of what we have achieved in recent times, but over the last season or 2 he's been in steady decline, the prem just highlights it even more. I'd rather us give an under experienced player a go than a player we know is going to be a yard off the pace and not sharp enough.

Sam curtis is on the bench and is an exciting prospect RB, could have kept the same structure that was working pretty well for the whole game then, blooded a young player with a few mins.

You have a good point! It would be interesting knowing Wilders thoughts and actions on this.
Maybe a pundit or reporter could question him on this.

 

[Slim Man]

To make the numbers. We do have quite a few injuries to key defenders if I remember rightly

If you’re not gonna put him on, it’s pointless. Just go a man light

 

[Rufus Smalls]

In training take 4 players who will be on the bench and make them do nothing else but RUN. Run over and over again until they can quite simply run for 15 minutes without stopping.

75 minutes use 1-4 of these subs and tell them quite clearly that they do nothing else but run and press the opposition. Tell them it's only for 15 minutes. Just Do It.

Let's see if we can hang onto what ever we've got up to the final whistle.

Which is, more often than not, a 3 goal deficit.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

We don't use a strict man marking system, which means McTominay isn't "his man to mark" for as long as Norwood likes.

This has been Souza's biggest problem. I think it could be the case that Souza has been used to strict man marking systems and therefore find it difficult to let his man go if he wanders off to a no-danger zone. But to have Norwood making the same mistake is really disappointing. The issue here is not hindsight - it is a lack of foresight. And legs.

Souza was playing as part of the back line at this point (far left of image) Not sure what he was doing there.

 

[Badger Blade]

Souza was playing as part of the back line at this point (far left of image) Not sure what he was doing there.

View attachment 182519

AA is pointing at Fernandes and so is BBD. Neither of Trusty or Norwood have made the decision to put any pressure on him - either could have done that and the other tracked McTominay down the channel.

Trusty's at fault for the 4th goal too letting Hojlund get behind him. Now I understand why Heckingbottom didn't use him at the start of the season. Trusty is crap, so is Souza and Norwood offers nothing at this level but is a great player in the Championship if you have plenty of the ball - Brighton and Fulham knew that years ago but soon cut him adrift.

 

[Vass Borbokis]

Souza was playing as part of the back line at this point (far left of image) Not sure what he was doing there.

View attachment 182519

It's quite obviously the majority of the fault for this goal is on Norwood.

If Trusty rushes out to Fernandes there, then there's a giant void in the (left) centre of our defence. Ball get's played behind the statue Norwood to Hojlund and he's in. (Trusty should have been two or three paces to his left mind).

You can see that two players are pointing at Fernandes. Also looks like Trusty is either about to, or has just finished pointing at Fernandes.
At least one of those three will have been shouting to close him down too.

At this stage, as pointed out above, Vini is playing right centre back. We were playing a flat 5-4-1 out of possession.
Hamer is right mid, Norwood right centre mid, Blaster left centre mid, Mcatee left mid.
The other midfielders have kept their shape, it's Norwood that's dropped 5 yards too deep. Probably because he knows he couldn't catch up to a 18 month old toddler these days, never mind a premier league footballer.

We concede a lot anyway, but as soon as he gets on the pitch, things go even further south rapidly.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

We concede a lot anyway, but as soon as he gets on the pitch, things go even further south rapidly.

I tend to agree.

 

[Tezza1889]

L

100% nailed on the game is now rigged

Legally rigged...

 

[GrayBlade]

Maybe the the young right back you're talking about is not ready for this level or even much lower at this moment in time. Let's face it they see them all in training.

Possibly, but he's been on the bench for the last 4 games. If it's just a case of using up a sub spot to give a kid who's not ready match day experience with the first team, why just him?

 

[loveWalrusDaveTheBlade]

The problem isn't that Norwood has come on. It's that by 75 minutes every player is run ragged and simply can't keep chasing. We're then forced into substitutions in an attempt to stop the inevitable. When the opposition is having 3 or 4 times the amount of possession you are, it's always going to take it out of the players, especially in today's game where on the 75th minute you still have 25 to go.
The squad isn't good enough, the tactics aren't good enough. It has nothing to do with bringing on one player who doesn't have the pace.

This is absolutely spot on in my opinion.
We can argue all day about choice of substitutes ( and for what it’s worth, I don’t think that Wilder is making a good fist of this), but the fact of the matter is that our inability to retain possession requires an intensity on the part of the whole team that simply cannot be sustained beyond 70 mins. The subs are generally of a poorer standard than the starting 11, and when they do come on then everybody else around them is exhausted, and the team collectively is already creaking at the seams.
We can’t defend properly, which makes us very vulnerable under pressure, and we can’t retain the ball, so that puts us under more pressure. Our only route of hanging on is to invest huge effort in a backs-to-the-wall tactic, which is unsustainable beyond 70 mins ( despite the fact that half our players don’t look bothered, the running stats illustrate the energy expended ( largely ineffectively)).
We can blame the choice of subs, but we’re just papering over the cracks, and diverting attention from the issue.

Get the defence sorted ( largely replaced) in the summer, work on ball retention pre-season, and hope that the drop off in quality of the opposition helps us to turn things around and rebuild some confidence.

 

[Jan Age]

L

Legally rigged...

Exactly mate and everyone is just falling for it