Striking options.

[Worksop_Blade]

Just heard the Clough interview today and he has said another forward is not a priority as Baxter, McNulty, Porter and Higdon (who he said won't be fully fit until September) are a good selection. I thought I would have a look at the top 5 bookies favourites along with us and their striking options.

Goals from the last two season next to player.

Sheffield United 15/8

Michael Higdon - 41
Jose Baxter - 23
Chris Porter - 16
Marc McNulty - 24
Jamie Murphy - 19

Total 123

Bristol City 15/8

Sam Baldock - 36
Luke Freeman - 10
Aaron Wilbraham - 2
Wes Burns - 2

Total 50

Preston North End 5/2

Andrew Little - 27
Jordan Hugill - 10
Kevin Davies - 11
Joe Garner - 34

Total 82

Peterborough 11/4

Kyle Vassell - 13
Tyrone Barnett - 9
Conor Washington - 13

Total 35

Leyton Orient 10/3

Kevin Lisbie - 34
David Mooney - 34
Shaun Batt - 14
Chris Dagnall - 19
Darius Henderson - 18
Jay Simpson - 7

Total 126

MK Dons 9/2

Dean Bowditch - 13
Will Grigg - 25
Tom Hitchcock - 12
Giorgio Rasulo - 0
Benik Afobe - 5

Total 55

Turns out Mr Clough knows what he's on about statistically, there should be enough goals in our forward line going on recent history.

 

[Gavlar]

Just heard the Clough interview today and he has said another forward is not a priority as Baxter, McNulty, Porter and Higdon (who he said won't be fully fit until September) are a good selection. I thought I would have a look at the top 5 bookies favourites along with us and their striking options.

Goals from the last two season next to player.

Sheffield United 15/8

Michael Higdon - 41
Jose Baxter - 23
Chris Porter - 16
Marc McNulty - 24
Jamie Murphy - 19

Total 123

Bristol City 15/8

Sam Baldock - 36
Luke Freeman - 10
Aaron Wilbraham - 2
Wes Burns - 2

Total 50

Preston North End 5/2

Andrew Little - 27
Jordan Hugill - 10
Kevin Davies - 11
Joe Garner - 34

Total 82

Peterborough 11/4

Kyle Vassell - 13
Tyrone Barnett - 9
Conor Washington - 13

Total 35

Leyton Orient 10/3

Kevin Lisbie - 34
David Mooney - 34
Shaun Batt - 14
Chris Dagnall - 19
Darius Henderson - 18
Jay Simpson - 7

Total 126

MK Dons 9/2

Dean Bowditch - 13
Will Grigg - 25
Tom Hitchcock - 12
Giorgio Rasulo - 0
Benik Afobe - 5

Total 55

Turns out Mr Clough knows what he's on about statistically, there should be enough goals in our forward line going on recent history.

City also had Jay emmanuel thomas who banged them in, how many did he get last 2 yrs? and we dont know how prolific Murphy and McNulty will be in league 1. Good stats on the whole tho mate!

 

[Teddy]

Interesting read, and good fun. But does get a bit skewed by what league these players were scoring their goals in (particularly for our lot)

 

[yorkshirecoast]

Just heard the Clough interview today and he has said another forward is not a priority as Baxter, McNulty, Porter and Higdon (who he said won't be fully fit until September) are a good selection. I thought I would have a look at the top 5 bookies favourites along with us and their striking options.

Goals from the last two season next to player.

Sheffield United 15/8

Michael Higdon - 41
Jose Baxter - 23
Chris Porter - 16
Marc McNulty - 24
Jamie Murphy - 19

Total 123

Bristol City 15/8

Sam Baldock - 36
Luke Freeman - 10
Aaron Wilbraham - 2
Wes Burns - 2

Total 50

Preston North End 5/2

Andrew Little - 27
Jordan Hugill - 10
Kevin Davies - 11
Joe Garner - 34

Total 82

Peterborough 11/4

Kyle Vassell - 13
Tyrone Barnett - 9
Conor Washington - 13

Total 35

Leyton Orient 10/3

Kevin Lisbie - 34
David Mooney - 34
Shaun Batt - 14
Chris Dagnall - 19
Darius Henderson - 18
Jay Simpson - 7

Total 126

MK Dons 9/2

Dean Bowditch - 13
Will Grigg - 25
Tom Hitchcock - 12
Giorgio Rasulo - 0
Benik Afobe - 5

Total 55

Turns out Mr Clough knows what he's on about statistically, there should be enough goals in our forward line going on recent history.

That's one interpretation of what NC said. Another is that it is more evidence that despite the big ST sales, big crowds, Maguire transfer money, last season's cup money and the "game changing" investment - nothing has changed and we are still going to try to do things on the cheap.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Chris Porter hasn't scored 16 goals in the past two seasons.

 

[Worksop_Blade]

Chris Porter hasn't scored 16 goals in the past two seasons.

He has:

http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=34692&season_id=142

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

He has:

http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=34692&season_id=142

Didn't realise you were counting cup matches.

He has only managed 15 league goals in his entire time with us.

 

[Living In a Fantasy World]

Looks like we have to rely a lot on Michael Higdon this season, he is clearly our best striking option we have at the club, I do fear he has to have a good season if we are to achieve promotion.

 

[wizadry]

Looks like we have to rely a lot on Michael Higdon this season, he is clearly our best striking option we have at the club, I do fear he has to have a good season if we are to achieve promotion.

Don't worry,he will score more in one season,than Porter has got all together for us.

 

[BeardedSaXon]

Didn't realise you were counting cup matches.

He has only managed 15 league goals in his entire time with us.

I'm not saying Porter is the messiah and believe me when I say I'm definitely not his biggest fan but looking at his overall game/goal ratio for us, it actually is half decent (66 games / 23 goals). He should be no where near our starting 11 but I think he will be a good player to bring on and play up front with Higdon when we need it

 

[wizadry]

I'm not saying Porter is the messiah and believe me when I say I'm definitely not his biggest fan but looking at his overall game/goal ratio for us, it actually is half decent (66 games / 23 goals). He should be no where near our starting 11 but I think he will be a good player to bring on and play up front with Higdon when we need it

Club career for us: 47 league apps, (+40 as sub),15 league goals.

 

[SwissBlade]

Looks like we have to rely a lot on Michael Higdon this season, he is clearly our best striking option we have at the club, I do fear he has to have a good season if we are to achieve promotion.

I wouldn't fear that he has to have a good season, he has been brought in to do just that. If he doesn't get 20 goals based on Saturdays performance and being unfit, i'd be very disappointed.

You could probably assume that he’ll miss 10% of the season with knocks and possibly a suspension, so that gives him around 41 games to get 20 goals. A 1 in 2 ratio of goals per game is what I’d expect from him as a minimum. His last two seasons suggests that he has that in him at least.
Possibly looking at Ched’s record in this division before being banged up, 35 goals. First glance at Higdon he’s more of a lone striker, but will be easily able to play alongside a striker like McNulty or Murphy, He’s probably more of an all-rounder than Ched, but I think 30 goals wouldn’t be out of his reach.

 

[BeardedSaXon]

Club career for us: 47 league apps, (+40 as sub),15 league goals.

The overall game/goal I quoted included cup games too, but his league stats still work out at nearly 1 in 3 games. Unfortunately a promotion team needs at least a 1 in 2 goal scorer to go up in my opinion

 

[SwissBlade]

The overall game/goal I quoted included cup games too, but his league stats still work out at nearly 1 in 3 games. Unfortunately a promotion team needs at least a 1 in 2 goal scorer to go up in my opinion

Ched and Higdon will be fine....

 

[stannyblade]

We need someone with the same goals per game ratio as Ronaldo has at Madrid. But then again so does every other team as well.

 

[SwissBlade]

We need someone with the same goals per game ratio as Ronaldo has at Madrid. But then again so does every other team as well.

I reckon people would still complain though...

 

[S5Blade]

I reckon people would still complain though...

Yep. Why didn't we sign messi aswell?

 

[SwissBlade]

Yep. Why didn't we sign messi aswell?

his dad wanted to dodge tax on the deal...

 

[S5Blade]

his dad wanted to dodge tax on the deal...

Surely KM could help him out given all of the money he has apparently hidden from SUFC over the years?

 

[SwissBlade]

Surely KM could help him out given all of the money he has apparently hidden from SUFC over the years?

In the words of beightonblade Who owns the freehold?

 

[itsinyerblood]

The obsession some of have with the idea of a 20 goals a season striker tends to deflect from whether this will add to the team's overall effectiveness. Higdon could be that guy, but if he forms an effective partnership with McNulty or whoever, then that's where we'll see the team make an impact in terms of our ambition to get promoted. Me? I don't care whether it's 20 or 17 goals we see from one player, just as long as their contribution raises the collective game of the whole team.

 

[SwissBlade]

The obsession some of have with the idea of a 20 goals a season striker tends to deflect from whether this will add to the team's overall effectiveness. Higdon could be that guy, but if he forms an effective partnership with McNulty or whoever, then that's where we'll see the team make an impact in terms of our ambition to get promoted. Me? I don't care whether it's 20 or 17 goals we see from one player, just as long as their contribution raises the collective game of the whole team.

A striker needs to get 20 goals a season

 

[Revolution]

The obsession some of have with the idea of a 20 goals a season striker tends to deflect from whether this will add to the team's overall effectiveness. Higdon could be that guy, but if he forms an effective partnership with McNulty or whoever, then that's where we'll see the team make an impact in terms of our ambition to get promoted. Me? I don't care whether it's 20 or 17 goals we see from one player, just as long as their contribution raises the collective game of the whole team.

This is true, but if we play one up front and Higdon doesn't score a lot of goals, we ain't going up.

 

[itsinyerblood]

A striker needs to get 20 goals a season

If you stopped threatening to spunk over our forwards that might free 'em to be more effective.......but seriously Swiss, surly it's the overall contribution of at least 2-3 forwards, and a reasonable contribution from the midfield in terms of goals scored that'll matter? I think it's become an obsessive need amongst supporters, often at the expense of whether the team is moving forward effectively.

Revolution, yes, it would be lovely if we had Higdon as our new figurehead with a goal tally to inspire everyone, my point is that if other players rely solely on him then our overall goals for column won't actually improve that much.

 

[Revolution]

If you stopped threatening to spunk over our forwards that might free 'em to be more effective.......but seriously Swiss, surly it's the overall contribution of at least 2-3 forwards, and a reasonable contribution from the midfield in terms of goals scored that'll matter? I think it's become an obsessive need amongst supporters, often at the expense of whether the team is moving forward effectively.

Revolution, yes, it would be lovely if we had Higdon as our new figurehead with a goal tally to inspire everyone, my point is that if other players rely solely on him then our overall goals for column won't actually improve that much.

Again, I agree, but if we play 1 up front there has to be a lot of goals from Higdon --because if he plays a full season up top on his own and gets, say, only 12, who is going to score the other 55-60 we need for promotion? There's nobody else in the squad who is going to get 10 on their own if we persist with that formation.

You can go up with your strikers only just getting double figures - look at 2005-6. But we played 2 up front that year, and switched the forwards around.

I want to see Higdon with someone else (McNulty?) in a 4-4-2 because the likes of Reed and Basham and Flynn are not going to pick up the slack and get the goals we need, I fear.

 

[wizadry]

The overall game/goal I quoted included cup games too, but his league stats still work out at nearly 1 in 3 games. Unfortunately a promotion team needs at least a 1 in 2 goal scorer to go up in my opinion

Its no where near 1 in 3 its more like nearly 1 in 6,which for a striker,clearly isn't good enough to start any match.

Bearing in mind he got quite a few of his goals from the bench,bringing him on for Higdon when he looks knackered sounds like a decent idea

 

[itsinyerblood]

Again, I agree, but if we play 1 up front there has to be a lot of goals from Higdon --because if he plays a full season up top on his own and gets, say, only 12, who is going to score the other 55-60 we need for promotion? There's nobody else in the squad who is going to get 10 on their own if we persist with that formation.

You can go up with your strikers only just getting double figures - look at 2005-6. But we played 2 up front that year, and switched the forwards around.

I want to see Higdon with someone else (McNulty?) in a 4-4-2 because the likes of Reed and Basham and Flynn are not going to pick up the slack and get the goals we need, I fear.

Think that's probably the key mate, Higdon plus one other, and after only one game we've seem a level of hysteria on here that suggests we're in serious trouble. We're not, but based on Higdon's input, maybe McNulty is the one to compliment him, a classic big guy/little guy combo. McNulty needs to be given time plus support to build this type of partnership with someone like Higdon. Point taken about the three players you've mentioned and their lack of goals, but I'd hope to see a few more from Scougall and/or Murphy, and even Baxter if he can lose his appetite for food or a few sherbets.

 

[SwissBlade]

If you stopped threatening to spunk over our forwards that might free 'em to be more effective.......but seriously Swiss, surly it's the overall contribution of at least 2-3 forwards, and a reasonable contribution from the midfield in terms of goals scored that'll matter? I think it's become an obsessive need amongst supporters, often at the expense of whether the team is moving forward effectively.

Revolution, yes, it would be lovely if we had Higdon as our new figurehead with a goal tally to inspire everyone, my point is that if other players rely solely on him then our overall goals for column won't actually improve that much.

Well in all honesty either will do, but i don't see it as an obsession to demand a proper striker, just a necessity. Since we lost Ched, we've not had a top striker, of course you're right that the contribution is just as important, but along with that you need the striker to be getting the goals.

Baxter did a job for the team last season, he's not a lone striker, but he did the job, but perhaps with another 10 goals behind him we'd have been up in the play off slots.

A striker needs to be there on the end of things, they need to fit in with the team and vice versa. I've said before that the success of Ched (and his failure previously, along with Billy Sharp) was that the side started putting the ball where he wanted it. Clough has already said that we had a disconnect on Saturday with Higdon wanting the ball deep, with the midfielders putting the ball in at the front post. That'll come though.

If a striker is playing 40 goals in a season, he ought to be going for a 1 in 2 ratio, but I'd expect the rest of the team to weigh in with a load of goals...

 

[itsinyerblood]

Well in all honesty either will do, but i don't see it as an obsession to demand a proper striker, just a necessity. Since we lost Ched, we've not had a top striker, of course you're right that the contribution is just as important, but along with that you need the striker to be getting the goals.

Baxter did a job for the team last season, he's not a lone striker, but he did the job, but perhaps with another 10 goals behind him we'd have been up in the play off slots.

A striker needs to be there on the end of things, they need to fit in with the team and vice versa. I've said before that the success of Ched (and his failure previously, along with Billy Sharp) was that the side started putting the ball where he wanted it. Clough has already said that we had a disconnect on Saturday with Higdon wanting the ball deep, with the midfielders putting the ball in at the front post. That'll come though.

If a striker is playing 40 goals in a season, he ought to be going for a 1 in 2 ratio, but I'd expect the rest of the team to weigh in with a load of goals...

Again, not arguing with your logic Swiss. I suppose looking at Evans, luck was a huge part of that scenario. Two seasons of underachievement, then voila! We had a goal machine, and I think what this did was to mistakenly convince a lot of supporters that they're two a penny. At the time I believed we paid around £3million for Evans(?), well that's what we're going to have to do if Higdon isn't the guy you describe. Wilson from Coventry would have been my choice, available and affordable at the time, but he's now gone, so we've now got Higdon, and it's about pairing him and one other, and the immediate answer would seem McNulty.

 

[SwissBlade]

Again, not arguing with your logic Swiss. I suppose looking at Evans, luck was a huge part of that scenario. Two seasons of underachievement, then voila! We had a goal machine, and I think what this did was to mistakenly convince a lot of supporters that they're two a penny. At the time I believed we paid around £3million for Evans(?), well that's what we're going to have to do if Higdon isn't the guy you describe. Wilson from Coventry would have been my choice, available and affordable at the time, but he's now gone, so we've now got Higdon, and it's about pairing him and one other, and the immediate answer would seem McNulty.

I’d been saying in the previous two seasons when others were writing Ched off as slow and shit, that he would come good, he wasn’t a player that played with his back to goal and it wasn’t a coincidence or luck that he came good, it was about putting the ball where he wanted it and he would do the rest.
Yeah I’m sure that 35 goal strikers aren’t two a penny, they’re a rare commodity. 20 goal strikers are perhaps more available, but you really have to find the one that suits your side better as they’re perhaps less likely to take their chances.
I again don’t think it’s a price tag thing, its about a manager finding the player that suits him. Is Wilson a better player than say, Stevie May, McNulty, Higdon or as I mentioned on my other thread, Shane Long.
For what its worth, I believe that Clough is extremely well placed to get the best out of Higdon, the way we played last season was crying out for a striker of the potential of Higdon. We didn’t really show it too much on Saturday, but if the wingers and fullbacks are getting around the back of defences and whipping the ball in where Higdon wants the ball then he looks an instinctive player to either provide the touch to a team mate or slot home himself. The emphasis there is on the ball going where Higdon wants it. That’s the easy part, ask him where he wants it.
The other area to exploit from last season is the main strikers hold up play, not punching long balls into his head 40 yards from goal, but putting the ball to him, getting it to stick and then playing in the likes of the wingers or Attacking midfielders.
I’m afraid I haven’t seen enough of McNulty to see how he will fit in. So at present I’m favouring a 4-5-1 to 4-3-3 formation. The 4-4-2 change to accommodate McNulty on Saturday didn’t really work, but I’m sure with time it could.