Stats..............a little concerned

[Ollessendro]

How are we in a relegation battle when we are 2 points short of the play-offs and 5 away from the bottom 3 ?

At this stage of the season the league table can change so quickly, that I think goals difference offers a better indication of how a team is playing. Yes this is controversial, but I think the league table exhibits randomness (i.e. it lies). Goal difference (particularly at this stage when so ew games have been played) is a good indicator of how well teams are faring.

Regardless of arguments over this (although i'm sure there'll be some) we cannot ignore the fact that, this season, we have shipped in goals and failed to convert chances. This worries me.

Like I said before, you may not think we are in a relegation battle. I'll come back next Wednesday (when the table will probably read much closer to my predictions and we'll see how far we are from the bottom 4, play offs or whatever) and we'll see what you think then Jim.

OK, you've moved the goalposts to automatic promotion but even still, is 10 nearer to 14 or 5 ?

Nope, no goal post moving. Check Houso's post, he said automatic. I was responding to that.

Actually i did at the start but couldn't be arsed to continue with it.

It just strikes me a bit odd to be calling someone cheap as chips, when i believe your preferred option was Sean O'Driscoll. Do you think he would have cost more than Speed to hire?

Bob answered this, but YES.

I think it's fair to say that with Olle you might get the "we're shit" side of the argument a hell of a lot but at least he backs up his statement with a decent argument that raises itself head and shoulders above the "we're shit because I say so, and if I say the moon is made of green cheese then it is because it's me" or the "wait and see, I'm always right" idiots.

He's making points and generating discussion. Sure, you might think he's on the wind-up, but he comes across as one of the blokes you could have a good old pub-based discussion/argument/banter with. There are other posters who come out with wild generalisations and sometimes crap that's nowhere near the truth and if they were to join in with the banter in the pub would soon be skewered with an old pool cue, but they believe every word of it, as in "player X has never ever passed to a member of the same team". With Olle at least you don't get the desire to launch the monitor across the room, because if you ask a question he'll give you an answer, which is more than one or two posters on here seem capable of. Olle won't give you a swerver.

Now, before this comes across as either a total love-in or wank-fest I will state quite categorically that I'm not a "sunshiner" or a "clapper" - that is, frankly, an insult to either "side" that gets the same crappy labels. Sure, I like a good discussion, like most of the members of this forum, but I can recognise when a member wants to have a discussion and will quite happily debate matters like Olle, and when they just want to shout their own opinion long and loud without accepting the validity of anybody else's. (See *******, ********, ******* and *******. Insert your own ideas of names here. I won't.)

Thanks SV an unlikely adversary.

Personally the insults don't bother me too much. they merely show that my debate is stronger than theirs and make them look silly. Still the forum would be a better place without pathetic personal insults.

---------- Post added at 06:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:20 PM ----------

sorry ollie you are absolutely right, i did neglect boro game.
that being said doesnt alter the fact that at this very moment our blades are closer on points (league position is the only deceptive point here) to playoffs than we are to relegation.
as for goals ratio, well stats can be twisted to prove almost any "fact"
for instance working on ones you have quoted, we may have a very low shots per game ratio but turn that round, maybe tho i dont have the opta stats that could mean we have a high goals per shot per game
incedently im not in the glass half full, half empty brigade im in the "thats not my glass, my glass was full AND it was a much bigger glass" people
on a side note id like people to stop slagging olle off for expressing his opinions, rightly or wrongly he is as entitled to them as the rest of you, and childish name calling just really hurts the credibility not only of this forum but makes blades fans in general sound immature, bitter, un-intelligent and mostly closed minded to anyone elses thoughts, if they dont agree with me they must be wrong, stupid, other (delete where applicable)
as stated if you dont like someones post, feel free to reply, but dont bring it down to name calling and shit, it doesnt help

MunXy

Another unlikely adversary
Cheers MunXy

Any chance he can stop the name-calling of our players and staff?

Nevertheless, Olle doesn't have an opinion. Only FACTS.

Once again when the chips are down, you fail to add anything constructive to the thread, banter eludes you, you can't think of an argument and voila ..... incoherent drivel follows

 

[shorehamview]

Anyway Olle, we need pictures of your new shed. Not stock ones from the B&Q website either, we want shots of your magnificent edifice.

 

[Ollessendro]

Anyway Olle, we need pictures of your new shed. Not stock ones from the B&Q website either, we want shots of your magnificent edifice.

I'll have to put the fooker up first!? (as said before) might take me the next few Saturdays!? Unless Blackwells missus stops making the pies and then our lass will be trying to put it up!?

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Ollessendro;276748]Regardless of arguments over this (although i'm sure there'll be some) we cannot ignore the fact that, this season, we have shipped in goals and failed to convert chances. This worries me.

1, 3, 1, 0, 0, 4, 0 is hardly shipping in goals is it. If we had conceded 20 plus in 7 games I would agree but 9 in 7 league games when 4 came in one bizarre game and 3 others in one 20 minute spell doesn't really spell defensive catastrophy to me.

I agree that converting the chances is more of a concern but I still believe that if we keep creating the chances we have in a couple of recent games, we will take them. Time will tell but I really do think you're basing your whole arguement on last Tuesday at the moment. I also agree that the league table is deceiving at this stage of the season but you can't deny that, even though you say we haven't played particularly well in a couple, three 1-0 wins in four games is also an indicator that we're doing OK considering the changes we're going through.

 

[shorehamview]

............doesn't really spell defensive catastrophy to me........

Doesn't spell catastrophe either.

 

[Ollessendro]

Ollessendro;276748]Regardless of arguments over this (although i'm sure there'll be some) we cannot ignore the fact that, this season, we have shipped in goals and failed to convert chances. This worries me.

1, 3, 1, 0, 0, 4, 0 is hardly shipping in goals is it. If we had conceded 20 plus in 7 games I would agree but 9 in 7 league games when 4 came in one bizarre game and 3 others in one 20 minute spell doesn't really spell defensive catastrophy to me.

I agree that converting the chances is more of a concern but I still believe that if we keep creating the chances we have in a couple of recent games, we will take them. Time will tell but I really do think you're basing your whole arguement on last Tuesday at the moment. I also agree that the league table is deceiving at this stage of the season but you can't deny that, even though you say we haven't played particularly well in a couple, three 1-0 wins in four games is also an indicator that we're doing OK considering the changes we're going through.

Not at all. Portsmouth could have had 3 had it not been for SS, Preston missed a sitter (after Nos gave it to them on a plate), Derby missed a sitter (the header near the end), Scunny did score 4, QPR did score 3. At the moment our defending looks school boy. Bartley gets dragged all over the place, the full backs are not convicning and Nosworthy is simply awful.

Still by the same argument I guess we could have scored a ship full of goals, i.e. against Scunny and Derby. But the point is that WE control this aspect, i.e. we miss the chances. We don't control other sides missing chances. Every game we've gifted several chances to the opposition and have either got lucky (poor finishing), Simmo has saved us or we've got hammered.

Like I said, time will tell, but let's see how we are finxed next Tuesday at 10pm.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Doesn't spell catastrophe either.

good point well made, god knows where that came from

 

[Foxy]

Not at all. Portsmouth could have had 3 had it not been for SS, Preston missed a sitter (after Nos gave it to them on a plate), Derby missed a sitter (the header near the end), Scunny did score 4, QPR did score 3. At the moment our defending looks school boy. Bartley gets dragged all over the place, the full backs are not convicning and Nosworthy is simply awful.

SS is part of the defence is he not? You know, employed to stop the ball going in the net

Derby's sitter was the one real chance they had the entire match, I'd suggest that meant the defending was slightly better than schoolboy. Bartley was a rock at Derby, wasn't as impressive and got bullied a bit on Saturday... which do we decide is the real him?

Same with the full backs, they both looked very good in their first couple of matches (albeit Calve in a more offensive style), but were both below par on Saturday. Which is the true representation as to their quality?

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Not at all. Portsmouth could have had 3 had it not been for SS, Preston missed a sitter (after Nos gave it to them on a plate), Derby missed a sitter (the header near the end), Scunny did score 4, QPR did score 3. At the moment our defending looks school boy. Bartley gets dragged all over the place, the full backs are not convicning and Nosworthy is simply awful.

Still by the same argument I guess we could have scored a ship full of goals, i.e. against Scunny and Derby. But the point is that WE control this aspect, i.e. we miss the chances. We don't control other sides missing chances. Every game we've gifted several chances to the opposition and have either got lucky (poor finishing), Simmo has saved us or we've got hammered.

Like I said, time will tell, but let's see how we are finxed next Tuesday at 10pm.

It's all 'could haves' though isn't it. You say our defence is crap because we could have shipped a few in every game (but haven't) and your opinion is justified when it's actually happened. The goalkeeper is there to save shots, as keepers have against us this season. Strikers miss chances as all our opposition has but then again so have we.

As I said a few pages ago, on the balance of play 9 or 10 points is about fair from the 5 games under Speed and as I also said, that form would put us in the play-offs if continued for the rest of the season. You say we've been lucky and are, presumably therefore, in a false position, fair enough but you can't say we've been shipping goals because we 'could have'.

 

[SteelCity Blade]

SS is part of the defence is he not? You know, employed to stop the ball going in the net

Derby's sitter was the one real chance they had the entire match, I'd suggest that meant the defending was slightly better than schoolboy. Bartley was a rock at Derby, wasn't as impressive and got bullied a bit on Saturday... which do we decide is the real him?

Same with the full backs, they both looked very good in their first couple of matches (albeit Calve in a more offensive style), but were both below par on Saturday. Which is the true representation as to their quality?

Agreed Foxy. People who go on about the defending are forgetting that we have kept three clean sheets and that 7 of the 9 goals we've conceded have come in 2 games! We've conceded 2 in the other 5.

The games where we have conceded heavily were two where we totally lost our shape (as a team) after going behind.....and one was under Blackwell! Apart from that the defence has performed very well.

Scoring is our biggest problem. I have absolutely no reservations about the back four and feel it is our strongest area at present despite those two games in between.

 

[MunXy]

Anyway Olle, we need pictures of your new shed. Not stock ones from the B&Q website either, we want shots of your magnificent edifice.

OMFG NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! SV wtf are you thinking, im sure i speak for every right thinking person on here in NOT wanting to see olle's "edifice" magnificent or otherwise
now ive stopped shaking and finished bleaching my eyes, i think on the whole we have more or less exhusted these points.
in summary: our attack has less goals than dalhi lama.
our midfield is ok, kinda hit n miss not bad per se but could do better
defence on average is pretty good but loses concentration at times.
to my mind mostly easy to fix, probably just tinkerin and maybe a few new signings not that we can afford players to improve the team but to put pressure on those in situe at the moment.
that sound about right ?

MunXy

 

[Ollessendro]

SS is part of the defence is he not? You know, employed to stop the ball going in the net

Derby's sitter was the one real chance they had the entire match, I'd suggest that meant the defending was slightly better than schoolboy. Bartley was a rock at Derby, wasn't as impressive and got bullied a bit on Saturday... which do we decide is the real him?

Same with the full backs, they both looked very good in their first couple of matches (albeit Calve in a more offensive style), but were both below par on Saturday. Which is the true representation as to their quality?

Well Bartley did have a good game (as did the full backs) but Derby's attack were awful. Against stronger opposition we have really struggled. Any defence that gets run ragged by Jonathan Forte you have to ask questions about. Sure Derby only had one chance, but so we did against Pompey.

I think we'll be in a better postion to judge our real defence after the next 2 games.

It's all 'could haves' though isn't it. You say our defence is crap because we could have shipped a few in every game (but haven't) and your opinion is justified when it's actually happened. The goalkeeper is there to save shots, as keepers have against us this season. Strikers miss chances as all our opposition has but then again so have we.

As I said a few pages ago, on the balance of play 9 or 10 points is about fair from the 5 games under Speed and as I also said, that form would put us in the play-offs if continued for the rest of the season. You say we've been lucky and are, presumably therefore, in a false position, fair enough but you can't say we've been shipping goals because we 'could have'.

All if's a but's yes. I think that 3/5 wins is a false indicator of our form and hence our league position is inflated. This will probably be put right after our next 2 away defeats. Still we'll see.

I'd be over the moon if we continued this 'play off' result schedule, but even the most positve Blade would admit that our form has not been promotion/play off form. Even those looking at the positvies and being optimistic can't hand on heart say that those performances against Scunny (4 goals conceded at home to a poor team), Preston (one shot on goal) and Pompey (one shot on target) look like those of a team that will finish top 6.

 

[Railway Blade]

The goals situation and where they are going to come from is an issue and a little concerning.

The outfield players that took to the pitch against Pompey ( and I have added Nos and Bartley together) scored a total of 32 goals last season in approx 335 appearances. The central midfield 3, scored a total of 2 all season.

Im sure Speed will be aware of the problem but it does look like we will need to freshen up personnel somewhere if we hope to score more than 1 goal per game.

 

[j j]

... I think that 3/5 wins is a false indicator of our form ...

This is not an indicator of our form (false or otherwise), it is our form.

 

[Ollessendro]

This is not an indicator of our form (false or otherwise), it is our form.

your purely pedantic comment means nothing. Form is a refelction of performances. We have not been performing well, hence we are not in good form.

Sure if you luck in the Sun or Daily Star under form then you'll see results, but there is more to it than that. Look it up in a dictionary ..... or maybe try adding something valuable to thread, like discusion.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

We have not been performing well (your opinion, not mine), but yet we are picking up the points. A mark of a decent team no? When we do start performing well, we'll pick up even more!

Try those tinted specs olly. It's far better for the blood pressure

 

[j j]

your purely pedantic comment means nothing. Form is a refelction of performances. We have not been performing well, hence we are not in good form.

Sure if you luck in the Sun or Daily Star under form then you'll see results, but there is more to it than that. Look it up in a dictionary ..... or maybe try adding something valuable to thread, like discusion.

Perhaps the people who write the newspapers understand the meaning of the word? I am sure they will have a dictionary to hand (everyone who writes should do likewise). United's form under Speed has been patchy and comprises both good and bad results. That is not pedantry. Deciding that goal difference is what counts or that opposition attempts on goal that would have been goals if they had gone in the net are what matters when considering form is nonsense. If recent bad results are typical this season we have tricky times ahead. If the good results turn out to be typical we will be promoted. If we continue with our current form this season will end with us mid table. We have a team in transition and a manager who is learning his job. It will be interesting to see how things pan out, but so far our form has been mixed and more good than bad.

 

[Blade58]

3 wins this season and 3 defeats out of 7. I can live with that because we have a new manager who is trying to change the way we play.

However, we have managed a measley 4 goals in 7 games and that is a big concern. The fortunate thing of course is that the 3 wins, all being 1 - 0 have come about because we've manged to keep clean sheets. Remarkable really when you consider we have conceded 9 goals in the other 4 games.

Talk about Jekyll and Hyde!

More goals required from the front lads (accepted that more chances are required to create goal scoring opportunities) And more consistancy required at the back. Easy, problem solved

Big loss losing Morgs today btw

Make that 4 goals in 8 games and I repeat what I said when with the OP, yes I am concerned!

They look pretty toothless up front. Defended ok apart from a f'kin schoolboy error and took the game to them in the second half, but we all know what goals make don't we?

 

[super_pig]

>failed to convert chances.
what chances?

 

[Ollessendro]

Make that 4 goals in 8 games and I repeat what I said when with the OP, yes I am concerned!

They look pretty toothless up front. Defended ok apart from a f'kin schoolboy error and took the game to them in the second half, but we all know what goals make don't we?

Minus 6 goal difference. And only 4 goals scored in 8 games. That's relegation form. I got some kick back when I stated that we were in an inflated league position, but it appears that we are converging on where we deserve to be. Whether you think we've been lucky to win some of the games we did (as I do) or not, then surely people have to look at these stats and worry.

Can anyone see us picking up points on Tuesday? Can anyone see us scoring? Another defeat and we're staring relegation is the face and the stats will look even more concerning.

 

[raul]

Cheers Ollie, now we know there's absolutely no point bothering turning up for any of the subsequent 37 games if were already done.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Can anyone see us picking up points on Tuesday ? Can anyone see us scoring? Another defeat and we're staring relegation is the face and the stats will look even more concerning.

I bet Pompey fans were saying similar things before last Friday

 

[Ollessendro]

Cheers Ollie, now we know there's absolutely no point bothering turning up for any of the subsequent 37 games if were already done.

don't be ridiculous. What I am saying is that we are in for the fight of our lives. Those w*****s wearing the red and white shirt need to stand up and be counted.

I bet Pompey fans were saying similar things before last Friday

Doubt it. They were playing well. I'm sure the Pompey fans said something like 'we are playing well, we still have quality, I'm concerned BUT I'm sure we'll come good'. Not many Unitedites saying that.

 

[beightonblade]

the stats that concern me are were not scoring more goals in a game than the opposition

 

[Kenilworth]

Make that 4 goals in 8 games and I repeat what I said when with the OP, yes I am concerned!

4 in 9 counting the League Cup - unless anyone was completely satisfied with that result and performance.
It's still a first team game.

 

[alcoblade]

4 in 9 counting the League Cup - unless anyone was completely satisfied with that result and performance.
It's still a first team game.

The league cup tie at the mighty Hartlepool convinced me it was time to get rid of Blackwell, albeit after a season of complete dross. I was convinced, up to that point, that he had a remit to change the style. It then seems that he did -hence his sacking at such a strange time.

UTB

 

[Nick Jansky]

I'm sure the Pompey fans said something like 'we are playing well, we still have quality, I'm concerned BUT I'm sure we'll come good'. Not many Unitedites saying that.

Most of the Blades fans I know are of the opinion that they are concerned, particularly at the lack of goals, but are going to have patience and a bit of faith in Gary Speed to put things right. Most of the Blades fans I know are a long way from panicking, because they are, for the most part, fairly well balanced individuals.

 

[Ollessendro]

Most of the Blades fans I know are of the opinion that they are concerned, particularly at the lack of goals, but are going to have patience and a bit of faith in Gary Speed to put things right. Most of the Blades fans I know are a long way from panicking, because they are, for the most part, fairly well balanced individuals.

Ok then Nick. I'm right behind you. Just answer me a few questions:

- who will start scoring the goals to pull us to safety?

- who will start creating the chances to score goals?

- which players will start getting wide, beating me and delivering crosses?

- who are the players in the team that will start looking dangerous in the attacking third?

 

[Toronto Blade]

Forest with a tremendous home record along with Sheffield United have scored every 18.25 attempts on goal. That is the worst conversion rate in the Championship.
Everthing stacked against them ,looks like a result for the Blades!

 

[Nick Jansky]

Ok then Nick. I'm right behind you. Just answer me a few questions:

- who will start scoring the goals to pull us to safety?

- who will start creating the chances to score goals?

- which players will start getting wide, beating me and delivering crosses?

- who are the players in the team that will start looking dangerous in the attacking third?

I have stated on this forum before that I think we need a winger and an attacking midfielder, both with pace. If we add these players, alongside a returning Williamson hopefully before Xmas, then I think we will be OK.

But you are missing my point. You have started a thread entitled "Time To Start Panicking". Most Blades I regularly talk to, which is quite a few, are a long way from throwing their hands up in the air & running around shrieking like a little girl confronted with a spider in the bath. They tend to be taking a more sanguine approach, accepting that there are problems, but also accepting that Speed has also recognised them & will take steps to put it right. He will either succeed or fail. I obviously hope he succeeds, but at the moment nobody, including you, has got a clue whether he will or not.

I might start panicking if we are a few points adrift in the bottom 3 at Xmas with no signs of goals being scored more regularly. Until then I intend to be patient & see how it pans out. That is not in any way being a clapper, and there is plenty about the club that I can criticise, but thankfully I am not emotionally incontinent, and so am happy to leave the panicking to those who are, content in the knowledge that it isn't because they somehow have some amazing insight that I don't, its for altogether different reasons.

Yes, I see the problems, but what always sorts the men from the boys is how you respond to them.