Stadium Development

[Pedro Verde]

the pubs closest to the ground are probably as old as the club itself and not really fit for purpose.

There are loads of pubs near BDTBL most of them were probably built after 1889
Please tell me the ones that are not fit for purpose ?
What is the purpose of a pub ?
They all serve beer some of it very good beer

 

[Pedro Verde]

We need either a complete rebuild of BL to move its position, or moved to another ground altogether.

Why ?

 

[Snowflake]

Why ?

To accommodate the 60k who several on here seem to think will come flooding in to a new stadium.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

First of all we need to stop asking 46 quid for tickets with a restricted view...!

 

[Blade for Sale]

To accommodate the 60k who several on here seem to think will come flooding in to a new stadium.

I don't think anyone's advocating for 60k. New facilities, an improved experience, safe standing and a root and branch revision of ticketing prices and policies however should mean we could realistically aim for 40-45k.

 

[John Cutsbushes]

I don't think anyone's advocating for 60k. New facilities, an improved experience, safe standing and a root and branch revision of ticketing prices and policies however should mean we could realistically aim for 40-45k.

We cant sell 27,000 for Leeds
You are living in cloud cuckoo land

 

[Ron_Justice]

The club already owns the land, or most of it.
The best outcome would be complete demolition and rebuild
All hypothetical of course, but......

Cherry Street and John Street being the ends of the stadium, and Shoreham Street and Bramall Lane being the sides, in other words a 90 degree rotation.
The Cherry Street stand could be built on the car park and John Street could be built around about where the centre circle is giving old Albert and Ethel the only remaining residents on John Street plenty of light. Bramall Lane to extend over Bramall Lane creating a tunnel for the traffic which they will stop on match day anyway just in case some poor passenger on a bus has to see the awful sight of a football fan or hear a word that their precious existence has never heard before.

If we build for 50,000 seats, we will get it about perfect for when SYP and the City Council close off seats to allow for at least a 20 yard segregation to the left, right and above of the wonderful and nice people that are sat in the away section, this has the added benefit for them of bringing capacity down to less than Hillsborough.

No need for a tunnel. Current Stadium rotated, there's LOADS of wiggle room and a lot of the playing surface would maintain it's position over the historic surface.

*Ignore the Blue McCabe bits, I made this a few years ago.

 

[Ron_Justice]

We cant sell 27,000 for Leeds
You are living in cloud cuckoo land

I though the idea that we can't sell out, and there's no point expanding had been dispelled? I believe the logic goes something along the lines of, in the past we struggled to get 10,000 so there was no point increasing the capacity. Then the club increase the fan base, via cheap kids tickets, improved facilities, better performances on the pitch etc. and here we are - with the opportunity to do those things again. If ever there was an ideal time to try and increase the fan base again, now seems like a pretty decent shout.

 

[loveWalrusDaveTheBlade]

What actually are the advantages of Bramall Lane? The area it sits in is a proper shithole of student accommodation, nowhere to park cars without walking into town or halfway up Norfolk park. Public transport well yet again a 15min walk to the rail station or a now largely disused bus station the pubs closest to the ground are probably as old as the club itself and not really fit for purpose.
Crack on if you are into 15min cities and all that crap but then you put significant barriers to people with limited mobility or of older age. If they can't sell out the Leeds game there is a reason. Who in their right mind will pay top dollar for a restricted view seat (and let's be fair we have loads of them) when the game is a late kick off on TV where you stay warm and dry and get a better view. Maybe if you live in Sheffield you could be home by11pm if not it is more like midnight at least if using public transport.

The advantages of Bramall Lane?
I can sit in a ground where my parents used to stand to support the Blades , and where my Dad's Dad first took me to football matches. I can soak up memories.
It's a ground that has historic relevance to the game of football.
It's a stadium that, on its day, can rock with the best of them.
It's handy for the town centre, and all of the benefits that brings. Away supporters routinely comment on what a great away venue it is.
I can park my car within a ten minute walk of the ground, every match, free of charge, not a problem.
The pre-match atmosphere in the Sheaf House is great.

 

[JJBlade]

We cant sell 27,000 for Leeds
You are living in cloud cuckoo land

Chelsea struggled to get 15,000 before the improvement to Stamford Bridge
Newcastle hardly ever sold out their old St James Park despite it only having a 29,000 capacity
Sunderland couldn't sell out Roker Park
Derby couldn't sell out the Baseball Ground
Leicester never sold out Filbert Street
Bolton, Wigan, Hull City, Milton Keynes Dons, have all seen big attendance increases since a new stadium was built
Bristol City couldn't sell out Ashton Gate and have no history of ever doing so, but they still increased the capacity and increased their attendances.

Wolves old Molineux stadium was one of the worst shitholes in football and attendances got down to below 5000 for some games.

There are 40,000 people who would go to watch United games, they are out there somewhere, if 1) The price was reasonable, 2) They could buy a seat that they could see what the fuck was going on, 3) Stop the loyalty points bullshit for home games, it is proven without any shadow of doubt that we don't fucking need one, and 4) The most moronic decision of all needs addressing and that is abolishing the one ticket per person policy.

It is also proven beyond doubt and is absolutely no surprise that the one ticket per person policy has contributed to shit and slow ticket sales

15 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, if this game was on the horizon and so much was riding on it tickets would be like gold dust, and there'd be no problem shifting them at all.

 

[Blade for Sale]

We cant sell 27,000 for Leeds
You are living in cloud cuckoo land

That's because we are charging a King's ransom for tickets to sit in a fucking shithole of a kop, not to mention forcing fans to jump through impossible admin hoops for the pleasure. Improve all three of those factors and you will attract more fans. What the fuck is wrong with Sheffielders?

 

[S64 Blade]

That's because we are charging a King's ransom for tickets to sit in a fucking shithole of a kop, not to mention forcing fans to jump through impossible admin hoops for the pleasure. Improve all three of those factors and you will attract more fans. What the fuck is wrong with Sheffielders?

There was an opinion post on the Star’s Facebook yesterday that said “Do we really need more cafes in Sheffield”? Which sums it perfectly.

Moan about there being no progress, but scared of change.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

That's because we are charging a King's ransom for tickets to sit in a fucking shithole of a kop, not to mention forcing fans to jump through impossible admin hoops for the pleasure. Improve all three of those factors and you will attract more fans. What the fuck is wrong with Sheffielders?

Most games there aren't 'impossible admin hoops' and they can sit nearly anywhere, so most of this doesn't seem to add up.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

Doing a quick fag packet calculation, I'm far from convinced what our expected crowds could get to.
For example, Liverpool a city of 830k, gets crowds at Everton and Anfield of about 100k (60k / 40k) , even with new Goodison it would be 110k. That's 13% of the population. Including one of the countries (worlds) most historically successful clubs.
Leicester get about 30k in a city of 330k, that's 9%
Those same percentages attendance in Sheffield would be 70k (Liverpool figures) and 48k (Leicester figures) split between us.
That's 24k average PL to 35k at world class.

 

[YES Blade]

Doing a quick fag packet calculation, I'm far from convinced what our expected crowds could get to.
For example, Liverpool a city of 830k, gets crowds at Everton and Anfield of about 100k (60k / 40k) , even with new Goodison it would be 110k. That's 13% of the population. Including one of the countries (worlds) most historically successful clubs.
Leicester get about 30k in a city of 330k, that's 9%
Those same percentages attendance in Sheffield would be 70k (Liverpool figures) and 48k (Leicester figures) split between us.
That's 24k average PL to 35k at world class.

Why can’t we get say 45k of the Sheffield support and Wednesday get 25k?

If we built a modern stadium with an established Premier League team playing in it, we’re going to attract the lion share of the Sheffield support.

 

[Hanauer]

People seem to forget we have not won a real trophy in a hundred years or been in a major Final in 90. The ground until recent years was a joke. Try and imagine if we did get even a slightly successful team for a few years then 40000 would not be out of the question. Amazes me that we are only 2000 on average fans less than the S6 Sows with everything they've had over the years, and that the total number of 30K averages, 10, is the same considering they had 7 in consecutive seasons 1947/54 which means in the rest of their history they had 7 in 160 seasons.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Doing a quick fag packet calculation, I'm far from convinced what our expected crowds could get to.
For example, Liverpool a city of 830k, gets crowds at Everton and Anfield of about 100k (60k / 40k) , even with new Goodison it would be 110k. That's 13% of the population. Including one of the countries (worlds) most historically successful clubs.
Leicester get about 30k in a city of 330k, that's 9%
Those same percentages attendance in Sheffield would be 70k (Liverpool figures) and 48k (Leicester figures) split between us.
That's 24k average PL to 35k at world class.

Just a quick point on Liverpool and Everton, they have a shed lot of fans from outside that 830k population (Liverpool has a population of 496k by the way)

 

[Snowflake]

That's because we are charging a King's ransom for tickets to sit in a fucking shithole of a kop, not to mention forcing fans to jump through impossible admin hoops for the pleasure. Improve all three of those factors and you will attract more fans. What the fuck is wrong with Sheffielders?

There is another club that vies with us for the reducing number of people for whom football comes first on the enjoyment spectrum.
We live in a different world to when 40k packed into BL
Those large cities with only one club may be able to have justified a new stadium or those whose facilities were literally falling apart. We are not there.

 

[Selly]

No need for a tunnel. Current Stadium rotated, there's LOADS of wiggle room and a lot of the playing surface would maintain it's position over the historic surface.

*Ignore the Blue McCabe bits, I made this a few years ago.

View attachment 204756

As fun as this is I can`t fathom how you would do this without us playing elsewhere for a couple of years or more.

Your best case scenario is building a "new Kop" behind the current south stand and part of the "new Shoreham st stand" before we move out - then you'd have to build the rest of a new SS stand and BL stand before we move back in.

And that assumes you don`t want to pull down the JS stand and rebuild further south to increase the capacity.

It would genuinely be easier to move out, level the whole site, and build from the ground up.

 

[Jon Bon II]

I love how these types of thread bring all the 'stadium rotators' out of the woodwork. They really are the flat-earthers of stadium development.

'But, but, but... I built a model on Minecraft and The Simms. Makes you think though...."

 

[Blade for Sale]

There is another club that vies with us for the reducing number of people for whom football comes first on the enjoyment spectrum.
We live in a different world to when 40k packed into BL
Those large cities with only one club may be able to have justified a new stadium or those whose facilities were literally falling apart. We are not there.

So we just stagnate while Leeds, Forest, Everton, Fulham, Palace, Brentford, Bournemouth (all clubs we've rubbed shoulders with very competitively recently) disappear into the distance, while Birmingham, Wrexham, Bristol City creep closer and closer? This isn't just about 'thr stadium'. It's about the standing of the club, the ability to continue attracting good players, the ability to generate revenue, the ability to attract support from newcomers to the area, the ability to continue to attract the odd international fixture, the ability to attract corporate cash. If we wait until our facilities ARE literally falling apart it will cost double to fix and be too late anyway.

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

We need either a complete rebuild of BL to move its position, or moved to another ground altogether. It staying at the lane we could relocate to Derby for a couple of seasons, would be my preferred option. Tinkering with the stands won’t be substantial enough to financially make it viable.

Are you on the wind up?

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

So we just stagnate while Leeds, Forest, Everton, Fulham, Palace, Brentford, Bournemouth (all clubs we've rubbed shoulders with very competitively recently) disappear into the distance, while Birmingham, Wrexham, Bristol City creep closer and closer?

Disappear into the distance in what respect?

Their stadiums?

 

[Blade for Sale]

Disappear into the distance in what respect?

Their stadiums?

With the exception of Bournemouth, yes, stadium development either has or will soon be a significant driver of those clubs' status. Leeds and Bham both looking to go above 50k, Forest and Bristol C looking to develop significantly. Brentford and Everton both in new grounds. We seem to be heading into a 2 tiered Premier Lg situation and teams are scrambling for position. Standing still is not an option.

 

[petcharlie]

There are loads of pubs near BDTBL most of them were probably built after 1889
Please tell me the ones that are not fit for purpose ?
What is the purpose of a pub ?
They all serve beer some of it very good beer

rather have traditional old pubs than these new plastic pubs

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

With the exception of Bournemouth, yes, stadium development either has or will soon be a significant driver of those clubs' status. Leeds and Bham both looking to go above 50k, Forest and Bristol C looking to develop significantly. Brentford and Everton both in new grounds. We seem to be heading into a 2 tiered Premier Lg situation and teams are scrambling for position. Standing still is not an option.

That's a lot of looking going on.

Out of all the teams you mentioned only Everton currently have a better stadium than us.

And I only say better because it's brand new and presumably has better facilities and all the rest of it.

Bramall Lane is roughly the same standard as Elland Road, the City Ground and Selhurst Park. Dean Court genuinely wouldn't look out of place in the National League. Craven Cottage is a nice little ground but it's a relic. The new Brentford stadium is the epitome of meh.

I don't see how any of these clubs are disappearing into the distance.

Forest, Bournemouth, Brentford and Palace might be miles ahead of us on the pitch but it's nothing to do with the stadiums they play in.

 

[MobileBlade]

The club already owns the land, or most of it.
The best outcome would be complete demolition and rebuild
All hypothetical of course, but......

Cherry Street and John Street being the ends of the stadium, and Shoreham Street and Bramall Lane being the sides, in other words a 90 degree rotation.
The Cherry Street stand could be built on the car park and John Street could be built around about where the centre circle is giving old Albert and Ethel the only remaining residents on John Street plenty of light. Bramall Lane to extend over Bramall Lane creating a tunnel for the traffic which they will stop on match day anyway just in case some poor passenger on a bus has to see the awful sight of a football fan or hear a word that their precious existence has never heard before.

If we build for 50,000 seats, we will get it about perfect for when SYP and the City Council close off seats to allow for at least a 20 yard segregation to the left, right and above of the wonderful and nice people that are sat in the away section, this has the added benefit for them of bringing capacity down to less than Hillsborough.

Think I've explained previously, if you knock down and rebuild moving the pitch position you can only get Uefa grade four grading if the pitch runs north West to south east. Same with a new build. Evertons new ground does that.

 

[Balham]

Think I've explained previously, if you knock down and rebuild moving the pitch position you can only get Uefa grade four grading if the pitch runs north West to south east. Same with a new build. Evertons new ground does that.

Really? The pitch at Spurs' new stadium is pretty much north-south (taken from Google maps, north is up)

 

[MobileBlade]

Really? The pitch at Spurs' new stadium is pretty much north-south (taken from Google maps, north is up)

View attachment 204805

Worth reading the UEFA guide. It actually gives the co ordinates as to the angles that are allowed. Don't think though Spurs technically moved the pitch. They just moved it sideways

 

[RealMcCoy]

Think I've explained previously, if you knock down and rebuild moving the pitch position you can only get Uefa grade four grading if the pitch runs north West to south east. Same with a new build. Evertons new ground does that.

I don’t understand why orientation would be significant. Where can I find a reference to this?

Actually, did find a reference that states a North/South orientation is preferred (in Europe) with an allowed tolerance of 15’ either way. Turning Bramall Lane through 90’ would achieve this surely?

Not that I’m likely to ever see any of this……